[PASSED] Condemn Giovanniland

[Ostrovskiy]

Honestly, while it may be harder to pass, I would think a commend would be better for gio.

[Repreteop]

Against, for either:

Giovanniland is not a bad person, albeit I do not like TWP.

And

Gives them incentive if they are just looking for a condemnation.

[Varanius]

I am happy to see this resolution finally happening but I disagree with the way you went about this. I understand the choice of condemnation, especially since that is in line with Gio's wishes, but if you choose to pursue that route I think you need to include the good things too.

I’m still not convinced by these arguments. Aside from the very real character count, I don’t believe that this proposal is particularly unrepresentative of Gio or his career. I really strongly disagree with the notion that Gio’s inflations were not particularly remarkable or significant (something I’ll respond to more soon), and I especially don’t agree with the narrative that this isn’t representative of Gio’s legacy, especially when Gio, upon my asking him if he felt the draft was an acceptable review of his career or had anything he’d really object to (it is his nation this may be forever printed on after all) he reacted really positively too it! But on to the specifics:

1. This is not meant to discredit Gio at all, but there are at least a dozen nations who have the card stockpile to inflate to or beyond Gio's abilities. Fauzjhia and Demeter are two examples. However, I doubt that if either of those traders decided to inflate their cards and end up with 500k they'd be condemnable.

I mean I don’t really think this is fair. Firstly, if either of them did that, it would be extremely impressive! That wouldn’t make them inherently C/Cable, but that particular type of inflation is not the core reason I’m C/Cing Gio. Assuming you’re talking about the Frustrated clause (the one specially about inflation of hundreds of copies which is applicable to your complaint), that is not the central facet of the proposal, it is a clause which assists in the hammering of the fact that Gio’s pure determination to inflate is absurd, and evil. If either of those players maintained such a dedication to market mayhem as Gio, then I should hope an action like that would make its way into their condemn, yes. It’s also worth noting that this isn’t really Gio actively pushing himself upwards, this was how Gio decided to retire from active inflation as he focused on his own card and TWP S3. Inflating himself to 3rd place wasn’t the peak of his career, it was his retirement spot.

Are the market tactics really the reason why most people in cards believe Gio deserves recognition? Or is it really for their role in running the cardens, being consistently helpful and active in the discord, their commitment to TWP card collecting, etc.?

Yes and no, but mostly no? Gio has certainly been helpful in Cardens and are an accomplished region builder, I don’t know that there’s anyone on the planet to whom you could ask “what is Gio’s playstyle” and they would not respond with “inflation”.

Obviously the inflation plays a major role, but nobody is going to bat an eye if someone inflates their card to 500, many have done it and many more will.

Again, this isn’t really what I am specifically trying to condemn Gio for. The simplification of his career to a single inflation is not accurate in the slightest. Gio has been an extremely relevant inflator for years. Arguably the biggest person reliant on pure inflation since his ascent in 2021 given the only two other cards players on the same MV level for much of his career (Mike and KK) had considerable legendary deposits. Especially since they literally broke the game with their massive 2022 inflation I referred to in the Dismayed clause. It was a gigantic inflation that was quite simply unmatched. Mike tried to catch up and still only managed less than a third of what Gio had. And while this was definitely the most significant single moment of his inflation career (one followed by a remarkably conveniently timed change to the MV calc system), it was far from the first time Gio would use inflation (a practice clearly admonished by the WA per SC#404) to power his DV machine.

2. You claim that all "good" things should be excluded from the condemnation, but then proceed to undermine it all with this line.

Mystified as to why Giovanniland is still viewed with such admiration, being widely considered as the most popular artwork collector in the world and friendly former TWP official

Well the answer to this is simple; I did not say that all good things should be excluded. When you read my message, you’ll find that I actually said that:

Ultimately I believe that the inclusion of positive contributions in condemns, while potentially useful in very small quantities, ultimately makes them less unique, less impactful, and less engaging.

I am not opposed to the inclusion of any and all references to positive contributions the nominee has made. I think they can be useful for adding narrative flair and depth to a resolution. But it should be used sparingly, because it is a condemn at the end of the day. I personally think that that particular usage represents that fairly well, as it assists both to build the narrative and to further clarify that while yes Gio is extremely well liked (a fact which we all know) he should still be condemned.

Plus, Gio's delegacy really didn't have such an evil focus or theming, from my outside perception. So you're already twisting that and the TWP collections; you might as well twist the authorships and Cardens into something bad too. Is it that hard to say something like

Utterly confused by Giovanniland's subtle, unquestioned takeover of the Cardens, which has been transformed into a cult-like organization where members are forced not to interfere with Giovanniland's twisted market activities and inspire content for the propaganda newsletter, The Gardener's Gazette

Gio’s delegacy was not particularly evil, no, so I do understand how you came to the conclusion that I did a bit of spinning to paint it as though it were. And that’s fair. At the end of the day TWP is such a core aspect of who Gio is as a player that not including it would be disrespectful at the least, and I don’t quite think that the Card Gardens is as integral. However, I will try to mess with some things. If character count permits, I can probably manage to include an aspect about either the Cardens or (as I will address later) the Olympics. Ultimately I do want to stray away from spinning as much as possible because this really isn’t supposed to be a black commend. I think Gio is genuinely condemnable for his actions in cards, no spinning required. While he was an extremely helpful organizer of events, he did so on top of a market empire based entirely around something the SC has deemed unacceptable. I really do think that should be the focus here.

Giovanniland held their position on the leaderboard while purposefully ensuring that their nation never came into direct possession of the naturally valuable legendary artwork they acquired

This isn't true.

Thank you actually. While transfers of legendaries to his main were still incredibly rare (he seems to have much preferred selling them on puppets and then transferring this bank to his main), the usage of never is now incorrect, and I’ll probably be removing the clause as a result. This should free up some characters to incorporate another one of your suggestions.

Not sure if you considered this, but Gio and I teamed up to nearly sweep the card olympics by conducting a pull event with our olympic puppets, which led to a significant change in the rules and much grumbling from our competitors, which seems in line with your narrative.

Thanks! This occurred during a time in cards where I was not around, so I didn’t actually know much about this. I’ll try to incorporate it into the next draft (should be a little more doable now given my above comment).

And what about gio's involvement as the most prolific member in the history of the CDA

Ga! That scoundrel!

Right now this just doesn't feel true to Gio's legacy at all and I'd be disappointed if this is what we're choosing to remember him for. It's fine to give a condemnation instead of a commendation, but I really don't think most people perceive Gio for kicking people out of a region or being evil on the market.

In cases like this I think that these sorts of questions are fair. With players who’ve committed actions which can ostensibly be interpreted as Commendable or Condemnable, the question of their legacy vs resolution integrity is fair. Similarly, a commendation of Gio which left out his massive inflations, or purging of a feeder below 2k nations, wouldn’t be representative of his career either, but a commendation which spent considerable time talking about those would be ruining its own argument for commendation. Personally, I lean more towards the idea that the resolution should present a genuine argument first and foremost, and shouldn’t overly compromise its message to for a more comprehensive overview of their career. If this ends up being wildly unpopular I imagine I’ll have to change it, but I really do want to condemn Gio here. Not because he likes the color better, but because I think he deserves it.

Genuinely though, thank you Noah. While I disagree with a lot of your points, you provided some very helpful feedback on Gio’s earlier career that I just completely missed, and verified something for me that, while I was usually correct, wasn’t as iron-right as I thought it was. Much appreciated!

Honestly, while it may be harder to pass, I would think a commend would be better for gio.

In all likelihood it would be easier to pass, but I don’t really want that, and I don’t think Gio does either. I think that the argument for a condemnation is stronger and more interesting. If this proposal becomes untenable out of the belief that Gio should be commended instead, then I suppose, but so long as we’re specifically talking about the narrative style, I think that this is more compelling.

[Honeydewistania]

i agree with everything Pineappleistania said

[Varanius]

New draft is out that is just slightly under the character count! Removed the Offended clause and used the characters provided by that and my coauthor's tidying to incorporate some of Noah's suggestions in the Revolted and Alarmed clauses. Ty!

[Varanius]

Bit of a bump! Any feedback still appreciated.

[Hustlertwo]

I’d rather see him commended, since he was and presumably always will be the all-time highest scorer in the cards minigame, but if he wants a condemnation, so be it. Support.

[Varanius]

Bumping again! Next bump will be last call in a little under a week.

[Chef Big Dog]

Looks great

[Hulldom]

Since we were in a VC and you wanted feedback....feedback(!)

Recognizing Giovanniland as a relative newcomer to the multiverse, having since August of 2019 made a name for itself as a dedicated bureaucrat of [region=the West Pacific] (TWP), experienced Security Council author, connoisseur of international artwork, and a mild-mannered nation with a friendly and pleasant demeanor;

Syntax is off here. I would suggest an 'as' before 'a mild-mannered nation'.

Realizing that, while Giovanniland has accomplished many good deeds,

This doesn't need to be an appositive. Delete the comma before 'while'

Disgusted that Giovanniland quickly ascended within TWP, cementing their position as Guardian and Minister without Portfolio in July and November of 2020 respectively, and utilizing this newfound authority began to terrorize the region’s residents through their uniquely intense passion for the forceful ejection of natives — while large-scale “purges” (or Purgelympics) of this nature were not uncommon in TWP, the fervor with which Giovanniland behaved was distinctly sadistic — ejecting 3700 natives across 6 days in the 2021 Purgelympics alone, plummeting the region’s population to its lowest point in the last decade;

I would rework this clause a bit. Something a bit more like...

Disgusted that Giovanniland quickly ascended within TWP, cementing their position as Guardian and Minister without Portfolio in July and November of 2020 respectively, utilizing this newfound authority began to terrorize the region’s residents through their uniquely intense passion for the forceful ejection of natives — ejecting 3700 natives across 6 days in the 2021 Purgelympics alone, plummeting the region’s population to its lowest point in the last decade while large-scale “purges” (or Purgelympics) of this nature were not uncommon in TWP, the fervor with which Giovanniland behaved was distinctly sadistic ;

Have the specific thing in the middle and the overall thing (he's been involved in many!) surrounding it.

self-interested inflation of the prices of often worthless artwork

Just a flavor point but would add the italicized bit if you have the space.

Dismayed that despite a brief economic slumber throughout most of 2022, Giovanniland stunned the multiverse again as they violently awoke and produced never before seen pandemonium, mass-inflating much of their artwork to the max value of 10000,

I think the Dismayed clause reads better without this, but plus sa change. I think it also isn't toeing the line (even if not in legality) of treating cards as meta.

Otherwise this looks good.

[Atomtopia]

Hey everyone! I’m back with another draft! This one of a figure I hope you guys are familiar with by now, Gio! Former TWP delegate and massive cards player. Huge thanks to my coauthor Occidius and friend Westinor for the grammatical and formatting suggestions that cut the draft down from its initial massive character count. Please feel free to provide some feedback everyone!

The Security Council,

Recognizing Giovanniland as a relative newcomer to the multiverse, having since August of 2019 made a name for itself as a dedicated bureaucrat of [region=the West Pacific] (TWP), experienced Security Council author, connoisseur of international artwork, and a mild-mannered nation with a friendly and pleasant demeanor;

Realizing that, while Giovanniland has accomplished many good deeds, this reputation is in reality a meticulous facade, existing to shield them from criticism and obfuscate the genuine danger they pose to the communities and regions they reside in;

Disgusted that Giovanniland quickly ascended within TWP, cementing their position as Guardian and Minister without Portfolio in July and November of 2020 respectively, and utilizing this newfound authority began to terrorize the region’s residents through their uniquely intense passion for the forceful ejection of natives — while large-scale “purges” (or Purgelympics) of this nature were not uncommon in TWP, the fervor with which Giovanniland behaved was distinctly sadistic — ejecting 3700 natives across 6 days in the 2021 Purgelympics alone, plummeting the region’s population to its lowest point in the last decade;

Aghast that these actions ultimately did nothing to impede Giovanniland’s success, made obvious by their rise to the Delegacy of TWP in early 2022, a position they held covetously for over 400 days - though this term is generally well-regarded for Giovanniland’s positive foreign affairs and cultural contributions, it also served as a cover for their malevolence, as they continued to expel another 2300 nations in the 2022 Purgelympics while sitting delegate;

Horrified that these actions are merely a glimpse into the malign soul which drives Giovanniland, as surely their most dastardly deeds lie in the global artwork market, where they have caused unspeakable havoc and distortion with remarkable disregard — as one of the most ubiquitous perpetrators of self-interested inflation of often worthless artwork, Giovanniland routinely catapults the value of cheap artwork to exorbitant prices with the explicit purpose of lining their own pockets, displacing collectors who put resources into acquiring naturally high value artwork:

Appalled that Giovanniland has exploited these inflationary practices to establish themselves as the second richest collector in the world, with their gallery’s value rising to a combined worth of one million in August 2021, despite existing anti-laundering systems which should have made this strategy impractical;

Revolted at Giovanniland’s sinister warping of the Card Gardens into a twisted cult of personality with them at the head - forced into mass producing propaganda through the Gardener’s Gazette newsletter, and prohibiting members from interfering with their sinister market perversions;

Alarmed by Giovanniland’s corruption of the Cardlympics, a tournament requiring nations use specially founded satellite states to create collections, wherein they operated in cahoots with [nation=Noahs Second Country] to abuse the anti-laundering system and provide their satellites with illicit funds, before sweeping the competition and swindling the organizers out of a total 18 legendary pieces of artwork;

Distressed to find that while Giovanniland was the first ever nation to have assembled a collection of a full edition’s artwork from a feeder (exemplified by both their complete TWP S1 and S2 collections), they went on to artificially inflate many of the pieces of artwork provided to them for those collections, abusing the good faith they had been granted as a regional collector to increase their capacity for exploitation of the global economy;

Dismayed that despite a brief economic slumber throughout most of 2022, Giovanniland stunned the multiverse again as they violently awoke and produced never before seen pandemonium, mass-inflating much of their artwork to the max value of 10000, skyrocketing their collection’s worth to an extraordinary peak of 26 million, so high it was more than twice the capacity of World Census processing at the time, and over 8 times as high as previous record holder [nation=Mikeswill];

Frustrated that, though this reign of terror was ended within a day by a radical and conveniently timed change in the calculation of artwork value, Giovanniland continued their abusive practices by boosting the price of common and uncommon artwork they owned hundreds of copies of, once again securing a place in the top 3 collectors through dishonest means;

Mystified as to why Giovanniland is still viewed with such admiration, being widely considered as the most popular artwork collector in the world and friendly former TWP official, despite their disturbing dedication to pure greed and enthusiasm for terror, even amongst their own regionmates;

Demanding that the NationStates community remove their lavender tinted lenses, and acknowledge Giovanniland as the monster they are;

Hereby condemns Giovanniland.

The Security Council,

Recognizing Giovanniland as a relative newcomer to the multiverse, having since August of 2019 made a name for itself as a dedicated bureaucrat of [region=the West Pacific] (TWP), experienced Security Council author, connoisseur of international artwork, and a mild-mannered nation with a friendly and pleasant demeanor;

Realizing that, while Giovanniland has accomplished many good deeds across their existence, this reputation is in reality a meticulously maintained facade, which exists to shield them from criticism and obfuscate the genuine danger they pose to the communities and regions they reside in;

Disgusted that Giovanniland quickly ascended within TWP, cementing their position as Guardian and Minister without Portfolio in July and November of 2020 respectively, and utilizing this newfound authority began to terrorize the region’s residents through their uniquely intense passion in the forceful ejection of natives — while large-scale “purges” (or Purgelympics) of this nature were not historically uncommon in TWP, the fervor with which Giovanniland antagonized nations was distinctively sadistic — ejecting 3700 natives across 6 days in the 2021 Purgelympics alone, plummeting the region’s population to its lowest point in the last decade;

Aghast that these actions ultimately did nothing to impede Giovanniland’s success, made obvious by their rise to the Delegacy of TWP in early 2022, a position they held covetously for over 400 days - though this term is generally well-regarded for Giovanniland’s positive foreign affairs and cultural contributions, it also served as a cover for their malevolent spirit, as they continued to expel another 2300 nations in the 2022 Purgelympics while sitting delegate;

Horrified that these actions are merely a glimpse into the malign soul which drives Giovanniland, as surely their most dastardly deeds lie in the global artwork market, where they have caused unspeakable havoc and distortion with remarkable disregard — as one of the most ubiquitous perpetrators of self-interested inflation of often worthless artwork, Giovanniland routinely catapults the value of cheap artwork to exorbitant prices with the explicit purpose of lining their own pockets, displacing collectors who put resources into acquiring naturally high value artwork:

Appalled that Giovanniland has exploited these inflationary practices to establish themselves as the second richest collector in the world, with their gallery’s value rising to a combined worth of one million in August 2021, despite existing anti-laundering systems which should have made this strategy impractical;

Distressed to find that while Giovanniland was the first ever nation to have assembled a collection consisting of a full edition’s artwork from a feeder (as exemplified by both their complete TWP S1 and TWP S2 collections), they went on to artificially inflate many of the pieces of artwork provided to them for those collections, abusing the good faith they had been granted as a regional collector to increase their capacity for exploitation of the global economy;

Offended that Giovanniland held their position on the leaderboard while purposefully ensuring that their nation never came into direct possession of the naturally valuable legendary artwork they acquired, in order to mock those playing fair by maintaining their position without a single legendary piece - a policy broken only out of egotism when they themselves acquired legendary status in later editions;

Dismayed that despite their brief economic slumber throughout most of 2022, Giovanniland stunned the multiverse again as they violently awoke and produced never before seen pandemonium, mass-inflating much of their artwork to the max value of 10000, skyrocketing their collection’s worth to an extraordinary peak of 26 million, a rate so high it was more than twice the capacity of World Census processing at the time, and over 8 times as high as previous record holder [nation=Mikeswill];

Frustrated that, though this reign of terror was ended within a day by a radical and conveniently timed change in the calculation of artwork value, Giovanniland continued their abusive practices by boosting the value of common and uncommon artwork they owned hundreds of copies of, once again securing a place in the top 3 collectors through dishonest means;

Mystified as to why Giovanniland is still viewed with such admiration, being widely considered as the most popular artwork collector in the world and friendly former TWP official, despite their disturbing dedication to pure greed and enthusiasm for terror, even amongst their own regionmates;

Demanding that the NationStates community remove their lavender tinted lenses, and acknowledge Giovanniland as the monster they are;

Hereby condemns Giovanniland.

Coauthor: Occidius

plus he has alts that capture regions, example: La Gran Region Comunista Hispanohablante

[Fort Concord]

plus he has alts that capture regions, example: La Gran Region Comunista Hispanohablante

Look at the World Factbook Entry - he didn't capture it. TWPAF captured it in his name when he was Delegate.

[Varanius]

Since we were in a VC and you wanted feedback....feedback(!)

Recognizing Giovanniland as a relative newcomer to the multiverse, having since August of 2019 made a name for itself as a dedicated bureaucrat of [region=the West Pacific] (TWP), experienced Security Council author, connoisseur of international artwork, and a mild-mannered nation with a friendly and pleasant demeanor;

Syntax is off here. I would suggest an 'as' before 'a mild-mannered nation'.

Realizing that, while Giovanniland has accomplished many good deeds,

This doesn't need to be an appositive. Delete the comma before 'while'

Disgusted that Giovanniland quickly ascended within TWP, cementing their position as Guardian and Minister without Portfolio in July and November of 2020 respectively, and utilizing this newfound authority began to terrorize the region’s residents through their uniquely intense passion for the forceful ejection of natives — while large-scale “purges” (or Purgelympics) of this nature were not uncommon in TWP, the fervor with which Giovanniland behaved was distinctly sadistic — ejecting 3700 natives across 6 days in the 2021 Purgelympics alone, plummeting the region’s population to its lowest point in the last decade;

I would rework this clause a bit. Something a bit more like...

Disgusted that Giovanniland quickly ascended within TWP, cementing their position as Guardian and Minister without Portfolio in July and November of 2020 respectively, utilizing this newfound authority began to terrorize the region’s residents through their uniquely intense passion for the forceful ejection of natives — ejecting 3700 natives across 6 days in the 2021 Purgelympics alone, plummeting the region’s population to its lowest point in the last decade while large-scale “purges” (or Purgelympics) of this nature were not uncommon in TWP, the fervor with which Giovanniland behaved was distinctly sadistic ;

Have the specific thing in the middle and the overall thing (he's been involved in many!) surrounding it.

self-interested inflation of the prices of often worthless artwork

Just a flavor point but would add the italicized bit if you have the space.

Dismayed that despite a brief economic slumber throughout most of 2022, Giovanniland stunned the multiverse again as they violently awoke and produced never before seen pandemonium, mass-inflating much of their artwork to the max value of 10000,

I think the Dismayed clause reads better without this, but plus sa change. I think it also isn't toeing the line (even if not in legality) of treating cards as meta.

Otherwise this looks good.

All done. And with that- last call.

[Varanius]

This has been submitted! Please approve! https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1684509534

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Good luck Vara.

[Pineappleistania]

This is certainly an improvement, thank you for taking my feedback into consideration. Not perfect, but most of my criticisms are generally stylistic so it's not a big deal.

I look forward to this passing!

[The Ice States]

I can support this as submitted.

[Tinhampton]

Office of the President of Sophia
WORLD ASSEMBLY VOTING RECOMMENDATION

---

Security Council: Commend Giovanniland (nation), by Varanius with Occidius

Recommendation: AGAINST

Rationale: Serious proposals deserve serious examination. This is a proposal to recognise one of the West Pacific's most prominent nations of recent times, authored by one of their mighty peers (and assisted by a very disappointed cat that very few people outside the region had heard of until recently). Surely - surely - this would be cause for Commendation. It is not. There's a case to be made that it is, in effect, but Sophia has voted for badges of honour before and it will almost certainly vote for them again.

What misdeeds have we here? Their complicity in the regular regional purges is worthy of scrutiny, to be sure, but they happen with great frequency, intensity, publicity and involvement from the West's highest echelons. Even if Giovanniland never existed, the West Pacific would still be going on today removing suspected marsupials and other undesirables from their home. Surely this is not the only thing Gio did, or could have done, while holding a regional leadership role.

The proposal then turns to their great card collection, which it argues is so great that "existing anti-laundering systems" should have prevented it. In fact, those systems did not prove effective at preventing the duplication of already-existing cards simply because they were being sold at auction during Giovanniland's early days, as Ransium wisely observed three years ago. Even the defenders of old-school anti-laundering mechanisms accept that this was its main effect.

Giovanniland is then accused of manipulating the two great stores of card power, rightly high-valued legendaries (through their triumph in a card-collecting competition) and dubiously high-valued common cards - via abusing of the anti-laundering system, arbitrarily boosting the value of cards from their region, exploiting the high value of other cards that resulted from their value only because the market value of cards was determined through the previous ten trades rather than fifty as is the current practice, and then doing it again after the market value calculation was flattened.

These last acts of Gio are certainly Condemnable things: anyone who can keep inflating cards despite the two biggest setbacks to inflation in trading history deserves to be scolded by that august body. Unfortunately, the first half of the resolution lets it down by using their regular participation in ordinary, even socially-expected, events against them, and to such an extent that we cannot support this. Does Giovanniland deserve recognition from the World Assembly? Yes. Is this the kind of recognition they deserve? No.

~~~~~~~~~~

This recommendation was written by Tinhampton, the President of Sophia. If you liked this, please upvote our recommendation dispatch here!

This resolution will be at vote between the minor updates of June 5th 2023 and June 9th 2023.

[Varanius]

Cool story.

This is at vote by the way!

[Occidius]

(and assisted by a very disappointed cat that very few people outside the region had heard of until recently).

Hey now, I'll have you know my extensive repertoire of non-TWP friends includes as many as three whole people in the Pacific, and maybe even a fourth in TRR. I'd thank you kindly to withdraw such libelous disrespect for my connections and substantial gameplay history.

[Tinhampton]

(and assisted by a very disappointed cat that very few people outside the region had heard of until recently).

Hey now, I'll have you know my extensive repertoire of non-TWP friends includes as many as three whole people in the Pacific, and maybe even a fourth in TRR. I'd thank you kindly to withdraw such libelous disrespect for my connections and substantial gameplay history.

I did say very few!

(To avoid any controversy and as I told Vara earlier: I do think Gio is condemnable and wouldn't have a problem with this passing! Exceptional as I'm led to believe his purge leadership is, the proposal just doesn't emphasise the non-purge things he did with TWP as much as it could have done and I don't feel as though TWP wouldn't have eventually been purging on such epic scales given enough time anyway. That and the misguided assumption of what TCALS was "supposed" to do before the November 2021 retooling.)

[Minnesota Federation]

I'm definitely going to support Gio in this debate the west Pacific is where I started my nation and without Gio probably won't be playing this game The West Pacific was also where the biggest disaster in the history of my nation so far occurred and the second I posted on the RMB Gio offered to help however now that I've Grown into a recognizable nation I would like to take into consideration this whole endorse the delegate and other leaders or get ejected scheme they'll sometimes try to convince new players that it keeps the integrity of the region alive which I can't exactly complain about because I'm not one to deal with politics though I do have an awful bad feeling it's just a scheme to keep the powerful in power-Somebody From a cold place.....or was it Minnesota Federation I forget

[New Anarchisticstan]

They're an admin in the Card Gardeners and a friendly person in general. I don't see why they deserve a condemnation; on the contrary, a commendation is better. Still, I hope they enjoy their future badge

[Klofron]

Support:D

[Ceannas]

From the description you've given of this delegation, they seem to be a rather successful entrepreneur in the arts industry and, forgive me if I over step, it seems to me that this entire proposal is being made by someone who is jealous of the success of his competitors.

I'm very new here and have only begun to understand the complexities of this society but, as an outside point of view, I honestly do not see how this entity has done anything wrong. Certainly nothing condoning world condemnation by this or any assembly.

From what I was able to glean from your very eloquent speech (well done, by the by. It was extremely entertaining and well scripted.), the culling, if you will, seems to be a regular past time of their region. Should they be castigated for being good at it? If that region condones it's own hunger games to keep its masses limited, who are we to condemn a man for doing his job TOO well?

I, therefore, with the limited knowledge of the underlying issues regarding this particular subject in question hereby vote against the condemnation of Giovanniland on the grounds that there is no legitimate evidence aside from the allegations of the author and their constituents.