[PASSED] Commend The Rejected Realms

[New Temecula]

Just forget what I said, m'kay

[Zukchiva]

Support. I think the accomplishments here are generally enough for a regional commend, especially keeping in mind Spiritus's and Europeia's commends.

Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.

[Westinor]

Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.

Generally the first accepted/recognizable version of a TRR government that was actually successful as a functioning TRR government was the one post-Kandarin, I believe. Some kind of memory is sparked by this mention, but iirc any attempts under Kandarin resulted to nothing, and perhaps never really were seen as likely to be anything; nonetheless the origins of the current standing government, and one that was democratically elected in the current fashion in my memory, is post-Kandarin. (I can be corrected if wrong, though!!!)

[Guess and Check]

Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.

Generally the first accepted/recognizable version of a TRR government that was actually successful as a functioning TRR government was the one post-Kandarin, I believe. Some kind of memory is sparked by this mention, but iirc any attempts under Kandarin resulted to nothing, and perhaps never really were seen as likely to be anything; nonetheless the origins of the current standing government, and one that was democratically elected in the current fashion in my memory, is post-Kandarin.

Fair enough.

[Goobergunchia]

Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.

If so it was broadly nonfunctional by no later than summer 2009, when TRR's governmental activity was a few of us voting on WA resolutions on the offsite forums. I suppose that does count as technically democratic?

[Guess and Check]

Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.

If so it was broadly nonfunctional by no later than summer 2009, when TRR's governmental activity was a few of us voting on WA resolutions on the offsite forums. I suppose that does count as technically democratic?

the best democracy :hyper:

[Westinor]

If so it was broadly nonfunctional by no later than summer 2009, when TRR's governmental activity was a few of us voting on WA resolutions on the offsite forums. I suppose that does count as technically democratic?

the best democracy :hyper:

The only legitimate democratic institution on Nationstates is the WA!!

[Cheesy Tots]

the best democracy :hyper:

The only legitimate democratic institution on Nationstates is the WA!!

[MANS0N]

Support. I think the accomplishments here are generally enough for a regional commend, especially keeping in mind Spiritus's and Europeia's commends.

Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.

Yes, there was, but I don’t think it’s worth mentioning at all. It existed for almost a year and was essentially founded and run entirely by Todd McCloud and Kaver2, alongside other senators. However, it really didn’t do anything at all besides hold the occasional vote. It declined a lot when senators began dropping like flies. Todd McCloud’s forum posts cut off in about November of 2008 re: that government and there were attempts to doctor it up but nothing panned out and the game was already kind of less active as a whole. There’s no known resignation dates or any records of anyone formally vacating their office except for Kaver2 (who resigned to hold elections) yet and the last post related to the government is from April of 2009. It’s safe to say it solely existed due to a few TRR natives wanting a new government after previously attempting one in 2003-2004 with Kandarin appointing Sub-Delegates (Ministers). However, it clearly didn’t work out.

[Zukchiva]

Support. I think the accomplishments here are generally enough for a regional commend, especially keeping in mind Spiritus's and Europeia's commends.

Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.

Yes, there was, but I don’t think it’s worth mentioning at all. It existed for almost a year and was essentially founded and run entirely by Todd McCloud and Kaver2, alongside other senators. However, it really didn’t do anything at all besides hold the occasional vote. It declined a lot when senators began dropping like flies. Todd McCloud’s forum posts cut off in about November of 2008 re: that government and there were attempts to doctor it up but nothing panned out and the game was already kind of less active as a whole. There’s no known resignation dates or any records of anyone formally vacating their office except for Kaver2 (who resigned to hold elections) yet and the last post related to the government is from April of 2009. It’s safe to say it solely existed due to a few TRR natives wanting a new government after previously attempting one in 2003-2004 with Kandarin appointing Sub-Delegates (Ministers). However, it clearly didn’t work out.

yeah makes sense, although on another note that's defo interesting o.O

[The Ice States]

...the XYZ and January Accords, which established links between pivotal defender regions of the time like Mordor and Renegade Islands Alliance and displayed TRR’s connection to key allies outside of the defender sphere like the South Pacific and the East Pacific respectively...

Does "respectively" mean that the South Pacific is one of "pivotal defender regions of the time" and the East Pacific is "key allies outside of the defender sphere"? If so, I don't see why the South Pacific is not in the Mordor/RIA list; if not, this should be far clearer.

[Westinor]

...the XYZ and January Accords, which established links between pivotal defender regions of the time like Mordor and Renegade Islands Alliance and displayed TRR’s connection to key allies outside of the defender sphere like the South Pacific and the East Pacific respectively...

Does "respectively" mean that the South Pacific is one of "pivotal defender regions of the time" and the East Pacific is "key allies outside of the defender sphere"? If so, I don't see why the South Pacific is not in the Mordor/RIA list; if not, this should be far clearer.

There's historical context here. January Accords were signed in 2018, when TSP was not a defender region but was getting closer in relations to them; a pivotal one being TRR, thus the separate inclusion - it's important to note that these are "at the time" statements, not a "now" statement. Similarly to how RIA nor Mordor are no longer "pivotal defender regions of the time".

I'm aware the clause itself is a bit confusing in terms of wording, and I'm tackling rewording it in whatever way I can. I'm trying to avoid a split as that would essentially make it a subclause in a subclause, but if it comes to that I will do it. However, I hope this in particular clears up this understanding. This is referring to the time of writing for the treaty, not present day - though the implications are for the present landscape.

[Britain Modern RP]

Support

[The Ice States]

Does "respectively" mean that the South Pacific is one of "pivotal defender regions of the time" and the East Pacific is "key allies outside of the defender sphere"? If so, I don't see why the South Pacific is not in the Mordor/RIA list; if not, this should be far clearer.

There's historical context here. January Accords were signed in 2018, when TSP was not a defender region but was getting closer in relations to them; a pivotal one being TRR, thus the separate inclusion - it's important to note that these are "at the time" statements, not a "now" statement. Similarly to how RIA nor Mordor are no longer "pivotal defender regions of the time".

I'm aware the clause itself is a bit confusing in terms of wording, and I'm tackling rewording it in whatever way I can. I'm trying to avoid a split as that would essentially make it a subclause in a subclause, but if it comes to that I will do it. However, I hope this in particular clears up this understanding. This is referring to the time of writing for the treaty, not present day - though the implications are for the present landscape.

Would removing "respectively" substantively change the intent of the wording? If not, I think removing the word would help a lot here.

[Westinor]

There's historical context here. January Accords were signed in 2018, when TSP was not a defender region but was getting closer in relations to them; a pivotal one being TRR, thus the separate inclusion - it's important to note that these are "at the time" statements, not a "now" statement. Similarly to how RIA nor Mordor are no longer "pivotal defender regions of the time".

I'm aware the clause itself is a bit confusing in terms of wording, and I'm tackling rewording it in whatever way I can. I'm trying to avoid a split as that would essentially make it a subclause in a subclause, but if it comes to that I will do it. However, I hope this in particular clears up this understanding. This is referring to the time of writing for the treaty, not present day - though the implications are for the present landscape.

Would removing "respectively" substantively change the intent of the wording? If not, I think removing the word would help a lot here.

I had thought that it would make more sense to have the respectively so it would be clear which treaty was applying to which due to the presence of so many "and"s but I'll go ahead and do that if it seems implicit. Thanks for the feedback!

[Coregia]

I would Support this

[Sedgistan]

Support. I think the accomplishments here are generally enough for a regional commend, especially keeping in mind Spiritus's and Europeia's commends.

Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.

Yes, there was, but I don’t think it’s worth mentioning at all. It existed for almost a year and was essentially founded and run entirely by Todd McCloud and Kaver2, alongside other senators. However, it really didn’t do anything at all besides hold the occasional vote. It declined a lot when senators began dropping like flies. Todd McCloud’s forum posts cut off in about November of 2008 re: that government and there were attempts to doctor it up but nothing panned out and the game was already kind of less active as a whole. There’s no known resignation dates or any records of anyone formally vacating their office except for Kaver2 (who resigned to hold elections) yet and the last post related to the government is from April of 2009. It’s safe to say it solely existed due to a few TRR natives wanting a new government after previously attempting one in 2003-2004 with Kandarin appointing Sub-Delegates (Ministers). However, it clearly didn’t work out.

Not quite. It was notorious Fox Rite region griefer Todd McCloud bringing a load of friends in to give an air of legitimacy while he endo-swapped his way to an attempted coup of the delegacy. He was within a whisker of taking it too, but the FRA helped defend the region, and eventually Todd gave up, reformed, and made a properly democratic tilt at a GCR delegacy in TEP.

Todd might have turned out okay later on, but at the time he was known solely for burning regions to the ground. His posse of entryists were anything but democratic. There was no native support for him.

[MANS0N]

Yes, there was, but I don’t think it’s worth mentioning at all. It existed for almost a year and was essentially founded and run entirely by Todd McCloud and Kaver2, alongside other senators. However, it really didn’t do anything at all besides hold the occasional vote. It declined a lot when senators began dropping like flies. Todd McCloud’s forum posts cut off in about November of 2008 re: that government and there were attempts to doctor it up but nothing panned out and the game was already kind of less active as a whole. There’s no known resignation dates or any records of anyone formally vacating their office except for Kaver2 (who resigned to hold elections) yet and the last post related to the government is from April of 2009. It’s safe to say it solely existed due to a few TRR natives wanting a new government after previously attempting one in 2003-2004 with Kandarin appointing Sub-Delegates (Ministers). However, it clearly didn’t work out.

Not quite. It was notorious Fox Rite region griefer Todd McCloud bringing a load of friends in to give an air of legitimacy while he endo-swapped his way to an attempted coup of the delegacy. He was within a whisker of taking it too, but the FRA helped defend the region, and eventually Todd gave up, reformed, and made a properly democratic tilt at a GCR delegacy in TEP.

Todd might have turned out okay later on, but at the time he was known solely for burning regions to the ground. His posse of entryists were anything but democratic. There was no native support for him.

I would argue that DFD counts as a native (even following her delegacy of TEP) but that’s really interesting Sedge, do you have any sources re: this that I can steal for the library? Or, do you still have discord? I remember asking Todd about this in like 2017 or 2018 or something but don’t recall getting much info and the Invisionfree forum had already pooped out at that point.

[Todd McCloud]

Yes, there was, but I don’t think it’s worth mentioning at all. It existed for almost a year and was essentially founded and run entirely by Todd McCloud and Kaver2, alongside other senators. However, it really didn’t do anything at all besides hold the occasional vote. It declined a lot when senators began dropping like flies. Todd McCloud’s forum posts cut off in about November of 2008 re: that government and there were attempts to doctor it up but nothing panned out and the game was already kind of less active as a whole. There’s no known resignation dates or any records of anyone formally vacating their office except for Kaver2 (who resigned to hold elections) yet and the last post related to the government is from April of 2009. It’s safe to say it solely existed due to a few TRR natives wanting a new government after previously attempting one in 2003-2004 with Kandarin appointing Sub-Delegates (Ministers). However, it clearly didn’t work out.

Not quite. It was notorious Fox Rite region griefer Todd McCloud bringing a load of friends in to give an air of legitimacy while he endo-swapped his way to an attempted coup of the delegacy. He was within a whisker of taking it too, but the FRA helped defend the region, and eventually Todd gave up, reformed, and made a properly democratic tilt at a GCR delegacy in TEP.

Todd might have turned out okay later on, but at the time he was known solely for burning regions to the ground. His posse of entryists were anything but democratic. There was no native support for him.

That is a fair assessment, and one I should have expected in hindsight. I gave it what I could and then left. But I still fought it cause I'm a stubborn dingus. Though in the end I needed it and needed to experience an array of failures to understand feeder politics, which as I understand are quite different these days. Still, truthfully, I was wholeheartedly prepared to give what I gave to TEP to TRR. But it wouldn't have worked, in both ways. I needed a region with turmoil to take root, and a region with turmoil needed me. I definitely wouldn't say I'm special, but more right place at the right time, with a double helping of stubbornness and misplaced but good-intended frustration. Even more, I needed to blaze my own path in chaos. Cause that's how the most players germinate - through chaos.

If entropy is a tendency to disorder, NS is a tendency to order. And it'll take any type it can to do so, if it will let it, or will have enough entropy added to it.

[Westinor]

Giving this a bump! Would love more feedback on whether the current form works or really just anything at all! Thanks :>

[Decnotixa]

I had some problems with TRR but it’s also true that the region has got important significance and a unique history, I will vote for if it reaches the WA

[Westinor]

Teensy edits made, hopefully the language is a bit better and clearer in some areas now.

[Greaditzerikarthee]

TRR WILL get commended. I just know it

[Panagouge]

TRR it's a rehabilitation zone for many. Support.

[Catalyse]

Not sure I can support commending a region filled with the likes of spammers, fascist nations and defenders. I don't understand how one would even want to join the region willingly, much less stay there.

Therefore, against. (because of the author)