[PASSED] Commend MadJack

[The Ice States]

Thanks to the mods for finally outing UFoC; it certainly took far too long. And for the record, UFoC, Quebec did not "found" TGW; nor is Pineappleistania the same player as Whatermelons/Saint Tomas (who is also no longer TGW delegate).
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As to the proposal, this is very well-written, and I would certainly support as written. That said, while I'm aware of the character count, I think this should add more detail for the section on TRR if possible; What "renaissance of festivity and spirit where it had been lacking" did Madjack create? How did they "help[] to navigate the new politics they had helped bring about before their work in The Rejected Realms"?

[WayNeacTia]

Thanks to the mods for finally outing UFoC; it certainly took far too long. And for the record, UFoC, Quebec did not "found" TGW; nor is Pineappleistania the same player as Whatermelons/Saint Tomas (who is also no longer TGW delegate).
-----
As to the proposal, this is very well-written, and I would certainly support as written. That said, while I'm aware of the character count, I think this should add more detail for the section on TRR if possible; "renaissance of festivity and spirit where it had been lacking" did Madjack create? How did they "help[] to navigate the new politics they had helped bring about before their work in The Rejected Realms"?

Actually Q is the founder of The League, and Honeydew was the delegate when I made that post. As for being Chester? Can you believe it? Here I am a WA author with multiple drafts on the GA forum still unfinished and I didn’t even know it. Maybe I should resurrect some of those projects.

[Witchcraft and Sorcery]

Hi I’m the new delegate of TGW, any and all (whatever the hell is going on here, I can’t be bothered to figure it out) can be directed to my telegrams or discord dms where I will answer them whenever I feel like, depending on their seriousness.

But I also don’t know why TGW’s delegate is relevant at all to the proposal at hand, so I’m going to just say I appreciate the mod clarification and respect the even-handedness of the ruling. Personally MJ is a player I have immense respect for, and doubly so because of the massive redemption arc. Ghost’s writing captures that in a tasteful and elegant way and I’m glad it can be done.

[WayNeacTia]

Hi I’m the new delegate of TGW, any and all (whatever the hell is going on here, I can’t be bothered to figure it out) can be directed to my telegrams or discord dms where I will answer them whenever I feel like, depending on their seriousness.

But I also don’t know why TGW’s delegate is relevant at all to the proposal at hand, so I’m going to just say I appreciate the mod clarification and respect the even-handedness of the ruling. Personally MJ is a player I have immense respect for, and doubly so because of the massive redemption arc. Ghost’s writing captures that in a tasteful and elegant way and I’m glad it can be done.

It was brought up because Honeydew stated she wouldn’t support the proposal if it made mention of MJ’s DOS. It really isn’t relevant and I am an idiot mistaking Honeydew as delegate of the League. Sorry Creeper.

[The Ice States]

Hi I’m the new delegate of TGW, any and all (whatever the hell is going on here, I can’t be bothered to figure it out) can be directed to my telegrams or discord dms where I will answer them whenever I feel like, depending on their seriousness.

But I also don’t know why TGW’s delegate is relevant at all to the proposal at hand, so I’m going to just say I appreciate the mod clarification and respect the even-handedness of the ruling. Personally MJ is a player I have immense respect for, and doubly so because of the massive redemption arc. Ghost’s writing captures that in a tasteful and elegant way and I’m glad it can be done.

It was brought up because Honeydew stated she wouldn’t support the proposal if it made mention of MJ’s DOS. It really isn’t relevant and I am an idiot mistaking Honeydew as delegate of the League. Sorry Creeper.

Once again, Pineappleistania is Noahs Second Country, not Whatermelons.

[WayNeacTia]

It was brought up because Honeydew stated she wouldn’t support the proposal if it made mention of MJ’s DOS. It really isn’t relevant and I am an idiot mistaking Honeydew as delegate of the League. Sorry Creeper.

Once again, Pineappleistania is Noahs Second Country, not Whatermelons.

Are you sure? Maybe take a look at Pineapples signature again. It makes no mention of Noah’s Second Country.

[Witchcraft and Sorcery]

Once again, Pineappleistania is Noahs Second Country, not Whatermelons.

Are you sure? Maybe take a look at Pineapples signature again. It makes no mention of Noah’s Second Country.

Yes Chester, I am very sure of this. Pineappleistania is not Whatermelons/Honeydewistania and their opinion is not representative of anything involving us. Even if it were, you get to deal with me now in that respect. Have fun.

[WayNeacTia]

Are you sure? Maybe take a look at Pineapples signature again. It makes no mention of Noah’s Second Country.

Yes Chester, I am very sure of this. Pineappleistania is not Whatermelons/Honeydewistania and their opinion is not representative of anything involving us. Even if it were, you get to deal with me now in that respect. Have fun.

And here I was expecting a challenge. Oh well…. I guess I can only hope for the future. My apologies for confusing Noah with Honeydew. I can’t keep up with peoples puppets. I guess I’ll mosey on out and continue to to be an undercover DOS.

[Team Leo]

I believe that Majack should be commended, becase they have done many commendable actions on site, and on the forums. I also believe that their DoS status that they used to have should not be too much as a problem, because Madjack came back, and since then, they have not done anything too risky on NationStates, which shows that they have changed.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Hmm, well this thread has turned rather entertaining for reasons that have nothing to do with the draft.

Anyway, I am in broad support of this. I think the references to being DoS are well handled and form a necessary but not obtrusive part of the writing. Madjack’s Commendable acts are clearly and precisely described.

However, I do not see the following clause as being Commendable.

Creating separate, distinct militaries under the same regional flag, one affiliated with raiding, the other with defending,

This was an unoriginal action. TWP, under TAO, formed the raider Black Sheep Squadron while maintaining our normal defender army. Note this was long before Osiris even came into existence.

Apart from that, great work.

[Fort Concord]

Aside from the obvious, and frankly immeasureable hypocrisy of Wayne/Chester's comments in this thread being brought to light... If anything it just goes to show how far a sincere change in behavior and admission of one's past goes in terms of how the community views the person in question - i.e., MadJack, and how far dishonesty and abrasiveness goes, i.e. Wayne/Chester.

However, I do not see the following clause as being Commendable.

Creating separate, distinct militaries under the same regional flag, one affiliated with raiding, the other with defending,

This was an unoriginal action. TWP, under TAO, formed the raider Black Sheep Squadron while maintaining our normal defender army. Note this was long before Osiris even came into existence.

Ghost - I do tend to agree with BBD on that, I don't think it would be a dealbreaker but I think it would be best if you could find another contribution to Osiris to replace that military clause with.

Are you sure? Maybe take a look at Pineapples signature again. It makes no mention of Noah’s Second Country.

Maybe take a look yourself, or bring your assertions to moderation for what would be some heavy multi-ing if it were true. Understandable mistake in your case though, since you usually don't seem to grasp game mechanics well.

[Team Leo]

Changes made in bold and underlined

Celebrating MadJack’s humble beginnings in Judea and its successor Ellorea, and also the community originally residing in Azhukali, where they sharpened their skills as bards and storytellers, explored a variety of names and identities and, became a vocal champion of culture and free expression for all nations, particularly in a time of great strife and hostility to creative expression;

[The North Polish Union]

The "am I Chester Pearson?" thing is a weird hill to fight on Wayne. If you aren't Chester you should file a GHR and hopefully the mods would be reasonable enough to admit their mistake and clear your name; if you are Chester you should file a GHR and appeal your DoS, which I have to imagine would be more likely than not to be granted since Sedge has literally posted that you are DoS and yet your nation still exists.

--

With regard to the proposal, I would need some serious convincing that Mad Jack's contributions to TNP during the period of his DoS belong in a commendation. While those contributions can be argued to have taken place in an NS region's offsite property its much harder to link them to the game itself since Mad Jack wasn't maintaining a nation on NS at the time (at least publically).

Other NS regions have various levels of offsite activity and users drawn from those activities that don't necessarily play NS. I know BoM has several such people, mostly from Final Fantasy. I also know the NPO has made quite a bit of noise about their presence in various non-NS games. The question is whether any of those players (assuming they have an NS nation at all) deserve C&Cs, or if they do to what extent the C&C could legally incorporate their offsite activities.

Granted, Mad Jack's case is still slightly different than the ones I mentioned for various reasons but I think the principle remains the same. In my mind Mad Jack should not be commended for actions that took place offsite while he was not an NS user.

[Zabloing]

Once again, Pineappleistania is Noahs Second Country, not Whatermelons.

Are you sure? Maybe take a look at Pineapples signature again. It makes no mention of Noah’s Second Country.

Read the pretitle
"The Second Best Fruit on Pizza of Pineappleistania"

Yeah it's pretty obvious it's Noah

[WayNeacTia]

Are you sure? Maybe take a look at Pineapples signature again. It makes no mention of Noah’s Second Country.

Read the pretitle
"The Second Best Fruit on Pizza of Pineappleistania"

Yeah it's pretty obvious it's Noah

I appreciate the clarification. Like I said I can’t keep up with peoples puppets. Hell most of the time I can’t even keep up with what day it is. *takes another toke* I apologize for any misrepresentations of people in delegate positions made by me.

[Pineappleistania]

It's me, hi. I'm the problem, it's me.

My signature has been edited.

[Honeydewistania]

It's me, hi. I'm the problem, it's me.

My signature has been edited.

at tea, time, everybody agrees

[Pallaith]

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you guys, it's been a crazy week.

As to the proposal, this is very well-written, and I would certainly support as written. That said, while I'm aware of the character count, I think this should add more detail for the section on TRR if possible; What "renaissance of festivity and spirit where it had been lacking" did Madjack create? How did they "help[] to navigate the new politics they had helped bring about before their work in The Rejected Realms"?

I did spend some time thinking about how I could flesh this out better. One thing that actually may help is the fact that when this was written, MadJack's service in TRR was relatively recent and far from finished. There may be some additional details I can get on this. Yeah, character count is crucial, so my current position is to make sure I get the core of it and follow up with more details if I get the chance, or it's super compelling. Depending on how some possible rewrites go, I may have an opportunity to get more down here.

However, I do not see the following clause as being Commendable.

Creating separate, distinct militaries under the same regional flag, one affiliated with raiding, the other with defending,

This was an unoriginal action. TWP, under TAO, formed the raider Black Sheep Squadron while maintaining our normal defender army. Note this was long before Osiris even came into existence.

Apart from that, great work.

Ghost - I do tend to agree with BBD on that, I don't think it would be a dealbreaker but I think it would be best if you could find another contribution to Osiris to replace that military clause with.

I want to be clear about something regarding this clause: it is not my intention to assert either that the act of having two separately aligned militaries is inherently commendable, or that MadJack was the first or only person to try this. This bit is an example of something that I feel does not stand on its own, but only carries any weight when viewed in the full context of its time. The intent is to illustrate how MadJack maintained a fragile peace between two opposing forces in his region and held things together basically by a string. The armies thing was one way he managed this, and is a literal symbol of how he balanced them against each other. When I made inquiries as to his time in Osiris, this was seen as a good example of how he played the mediator and tried to keep everyone happy. I'm certainly not married to it for its own sake, but I think it does its job in making this particular point. Is there a way I can be more explicit about that point while maintaining this clause, so that people don't wrongly assume I am praising the idea of two opposite regional armies?

Changes made in bold and underlined

Celebrating MadJack’s humble beginnings in Judea and its successor Ellorea, and also the community originally residing in Azhukali, where they sharpened their skills as bards and storytellers, explored a variety of names and identities and, became a vocal champion of culture and free expression for all nations, particularly in a time of great strife and hostility to creative expression;

The funny thing is, I believe I originally had the draft read exactly the way you're suggesting it read right now, and decided to change it because it sounded better that way. This really highlights the subtlety in treating them like nations as opposed to individuals, but I reasoned that a nation can be treated as a singular entity so it would work. I don't know, I kind of flip flop here, and as someone who doesn't write a ton of these, I would be curious what other authors think about the grammar here.

[Pallaith]

Just a friendly reminder that I am still accepting feedback for this one, particularly regarding the points I recently addressed. I feel like this is close to being ready but the things that would likely be changed at this point are very subjective and I want to get a better idea of the general feeling about them, to the extent such a thing is possible.

[Simone Republic]

Just a friendly reminder that I am still accepting feedback for this one, particularly regarding the points I recently addressed. I feel like this is close to being ready but the things that would likely be changed at this point are very subjective and I want to get a better idea of the general feeling about them, to the extent such a thing is possible.

I will refer to my comments on the WALL staff lounge and refrain from commenting publicly.

[Unibot III]

Not sure I understand why the amnesty is being cited as a commendable act, since it delayed the inevitable problems that the KRO had in accommodating the Empire at the expense of the region’s rule of law, internal governance, and security.

Compromise was most certainly on George’s mind when he made the decision, he was concerned that the state may collapse without amnesty - but the state collapsed with amnesty and Osiris faced six coups in 2013 alone which is without precedent.

I support a commendation for St. George regardless; my only other suggestion is that the “humble beginnings” language may unintentionally imply roleplaying lacks the same status as gameplaying - St. George was a good RPer and he was part of a core group then in II that was looked up to.

Support.

[Syberis]

Honestly agree with Unibot on the last bit - MJ's background in the RP sphere, and in UCR management, was incredibly impressive. There aren't many players who were impactful constantly, in multiple spheres for so long. While records may be less prevalent, I'm sure there's a better way to phrase his RP contributions.

[Pallaith]

I'm terribly sorry for my delayed response, I have been very busy as of late and haven't had much time to dive back in here. Nevertheless, I did see the recent feedback and worked on getting a bit more info for the earlier period to meet your concerns. I didn't have much luck, however, so I thought I would try my hand at a little rewrite that should hopefully suffice? Let me know, as it is likely to be the last bit I change before sending this one off for the queue. I wanted to capture the idea that he got his start there, not that the start is or is not impressive or more impressive than what came later. I opted for "swift emergence" because he started there and because he became a crucial voice for that community, which the clause goes on to detail. I also corrected the grammar in the same clause - ultimately I agreed the plural was more appropriate. Character count is still a concern, and unfortunately no addition TRR content has made itself apparent, so that is unlikely to change as well.

While this slight tweak is reviewed, I think I will take the opportunity to also declare it a last call for additional feedback. I'm likely to get swallowed up by life again in the near future, so I hope I can move this before I get delayed again.

[Esfalsa]

I'm pretty new around here so if I'm not making sense, please do let me know. With that said, I have a few points of feedback that I hope will be of some use

Celebrating MadJack’s swift emergence in Judea and its successor Ellorea, and also the community originally residing in Azhukali, where they sharpened their skills as bards and storytellers, explored a variety of names and identities and became a vocal champion of culture and free expression for all nations, particularly in a time of great strife and hostility to creative expression;

Sorry, but what does this mean exactly? It's not entirely clear to me from this clause what "culture and free expression for all nations" refer to (the World Census' culture ranking? writing factbooks? posting on the RMB?) nor who was creating "great strife and hostility to creative expression" at the time.

Creating separate, distinct militaries under the same regional flag, one affiliated with raiding, the other with defending,

I don't feel raiding to be commendable. Even if you don't agree with my position, this still feels out of place given that the draft has already admired MadJack's "commitment to respecting and protecting all communities, especially from invading hordes" and goes on to highlight MadJack's role in "greatly reducing [the North Pacific's] participation in raiding activity." Especially in that context, I'm not sure how both supporting a raider-affiliated military and defending communities from invading hordes can be commendable. If both are to be commended, I think the draft would benefit from having more of an explanation as to why MadJack pivoted from defending against invading hordes to creating a military that was affiliated with them.

remote architecture of a robust, vibrant creative community simultaneously a part of and apart from the wider North Pacific community, which greatly enhanced the region’s culture

I know there's a character limit and all, but it would be nice to see more concrete examples of the cultural impact — I'm just spitballing here, but are there storylines that are still ongoing? Guides that are still being used? Players

set a standard for managing disparate and radically different sub-communities within a larger one that other similarly-composed regions could follow

Could follow or did follow? Again, if some examples of MadJack's impact would be nice to see, especially because I'm not sure how many regions would first come to mind as being "similarly-composed" to the North Pacific.

all successes achieved in spite of their history of self-immolation and winning repeated Court cases on technical grounds, which created doubts about their suitability to lead;

I'll save my out-of-character thoughts for later but at a purely in-character level, I'm not sure this sounds all that impressive. Most candidates will have someone who doubts their suitability as a leader, and if they're successful, they'll prove those doubts unfounded. I'm not sure why having a "history of self-immolation" or winning Court cases on... technicalities?... is all that commendable; instead, I would think that MadJack's accomplishments as Speaker, Justice, or Delegate would be more insightful, as the next clause addresses for MadJack's time as Delegate. Or, if your goal is to highlight MadJack's skill in the courtroom, I think that would benefit from being decoupled into a more focused clause.

Greatly expanding Regional Assembly access through updating the citizenship process and fostering unprecedented transparency in government by modernizing the process of disclosing private government records,

This feels a little vague to me — perhaps a clearer statement of the impact of these actions would be helpful. For instance, did an updated citizenship process grow the roster of citizens? Did a modernized declassification system allow more timely disclosures? I think it would also help to describe how exactly the citizenship or declassification processes were updated or modernized, which should make the benefits to the Regional Assembly clear, instead of simply stating that access was greatly expanded.

Declaring a new outlook on alignment for The North Pacific, greatly reducing its participation in raiding activity and contributing to a significant shift in favor of defender-aligned forces in the world,

What was the impact of that declaration? For instance, I think it would feel more impactful to me to say the NPA "contributed however-many unique updaters to a significant shift" or offer examples of raiding activity that fell flat with the NPA's greatly reduced participation.

an outlook that other regions in its sphere would soon adopt,

If MadJack was a driving force behind this outlook, I would call that out; otherwise, I'm not sure how it highlights MadJack's commendability.

Believing it suits an exemplar of comebacks to find success in The Rejected Realms, including as its Cultural officer providing a renaissance of festivity and spirit where it had been lacking; and as its Foreign Affairs officer, helping to navigate the new politics they had helped bring about before their work in The Rejected Realms;

Are there examples of this "festivity and spirit" that could be featured? I'm less personally well-versed in foreign affairs, but are there any examples of achievements there?

---

I wanted to draw a line here (literally and figuratively) because I have some out-of-character concerns about how this draft portrays MadJack's off-site actions while delete-on-sight, so I wanted to clearly differentiate them from my in-character feedback voiced above. I know that a legality ruling has been issued and various opinions have been voiced already, so I'm not trying to spark a whole debate again, but I do have a couple of brief thoughts to share.

I'm not particularly enthused about the way MadJack's return from DOS status is framed, as I'm not sure why it needs to be highlighted in a commendation at all. MadJack is no longer DOS, and their recognition for that is that they get to... play the game? Because they're no longer DOS? If they weren't let back into the game, this proposal wouldn't exist at all. It's one thing to highlight off-site actions while DOS, and another thing to praise and celebrate MadJack's return to the site.

Perhaps that wasn't the intention, but to an extent, the current draft feels to me like it harps on that part a bit excessively. Is it really necessary for the Security Council to be "in awe at MadJack’s nearly matchless return" when "practically every other nation with a similar history would have remained permanently exiled" makes MadJack more commendable, and then to declare him "the avatar of second chances," and then to also term him "an exemplar of comebacks." I don't think these phrases really add much insight into MadJack's achievements as a player — which is, if you ask me, where the emphasis would best be placed. After all, it's only because MadJack was let back into the game that they've been able to have those achievements. Why not focus on those achievements themselves?

[Pallaith]

I'm pretty new around here so if I'm not making sense, please do let me know. With that said, I have a few points of feedback that I hope will be of some use

Celebrating MadJack’s swift emergence in Judea and its successor Ellorea, and also the community originally residing in Azhukali, where they sharpened their skills as bards and storytellers, explored a variety of names and identities and became a vocal champion of culture and free expression for all nations, particularly in a time of great strife and hostility to creative expression;

Sorry, but what does this mean exactly? It's not entirely clear to me from this clause what "culture and free expression for all nations" refer to (the World Census' culture ranking? writing factbooks? posting on the RMB?) nor who was creating "great strife and hostility to creative expression" at the time.

Creating separate, distinct militaries under the same regional flag, one affiliated with raiding, the other with defending,

I don't feel raiding to be commendable. Even if you don't agree with my position, this still feels out of place given that the draft has already admired MadJack's "commitment to respecting and protecting all communities, especially from invading hordes" and goes on to highlight MadJack's role in "greatly reducing [the North Pacific's] participation in raiding activity." Especially in that context, I'm not sure how both supporting a raider-affiliated military and defending communities from invading hordes can be commendable. If both are to be commended, I think the draft would benefit from having more of an explanation as to why MadJack pivoted from defending against invading hordes to creating a military that was affiliated with them.

remote architecture of a robust, vibrant creative community simultaneously a part of and apart from the wider North Pacific community, which greatly enhanced the region’s culture

I know there's a character limit and all, but it would be nice to see more concrete examples of the cultural impact — I'm just spitballing here, but are there storylines that are still ongoing? Guides that are still being used? Players

set a standard for managing disparate and radically different sub-communities within a larger one that other similarly-composed regions could follow

Could follow or did follow? Again, if some examples of MadJack's impact would be nice to see, especially because I'm not sure how many regions would first come to mind as being "similarly-composed" to the North Pacific.

all successes achieved in spite of their history of self-immolation and winning repeated Court cases on technical grounds, which created doubts about their suitability to lead;

I'll save my out-of-character thoughts for later but at a purely in-character level, I'm not sure this sounds all that impressive. Most candidates will have someone who doubts their suitability as a leader, and if they're successful, they'll prove those doubts unfounded. I'm not sure why having a "history of self-immolation" or winning Court cases on... technicalities?... is all that commendable; instead, I would think that MadJack's accomplishments as Speaker, Justice, or Delegate would be more insightful, as the next clause addresses for MadJack's time as Delegate. Or, if your goal is to highlight MadJack's skill in the courtroom, I think that would benefit from being decoupled into a more focused clause.

Greatly expanding Regional Assembly access through updating the citizenship process and fostering unprecedented transparency in government by modernizing the process of disclosing private government records,

This feels a little vague to me — perhaps a clearer statement of the impact of these actions would be helpful. For instance, did an updated citizenship process grow the roster of citizens? Did a modernized declassification system allow more timely disclosures? I think it would also help to describe how exactly the citizenship or declassification processes were updated or modernized, which should make the benefits to the Regional Assembly clear, instead of simply stating that access was greatly expanded.

Declaring a new outlook on alignment for The North Pacific, greatly reducing its participation in raiding activity and contributing to a significant shift in favor of defender-aligned forces in the world,

What was the impact of that declaration? For instance, I think it would feel more impactful to me to say the NPA "contributed however-many unique updaters to a significant shift" or offer examples of raiding activity that fell flat with the NPA's greatly reduced participation.

an outlook that other regions in its sphere would soon adopt,

If MadJack was a driving force behind this outlook, I would call that out; otherwise, I'm not sure how it highlights MadJack's commendability.

Believing it suits an exemplar of comebacks to find success in The Rejected Realms, including as its Cultural officer providing a renaissance of festivity and spirit where it had been lacking; and as its Foreign Affairs officer, helping to navigate the new politics they had helped bring about before their work in The Rejected Realms;

Are there examples of this "festivity and spirit" that could be featured? I'm less personally well-versed in foreign affairs, but are there any examples of achievements there?

---

I wanted to draw a line here (literally and figuratively) because I have some out-of-character concerns about how this draft portrays MadJack's off-site actions while delete-on-sight, so I wanted to clearly differentiate them from my in-character feedback voiced above. I know that a legality ruling has been issued and various opinions have been voiced already, so I'm not trying to spark a whole debate again, but I do have a couple of brief thoughts to share.

I'm not particularly enthused about the way MadJack's return from DOS status is framed, as I'm not sure why it needs to be highlighted in a commendation at all. MadJack is no longer DOS, and their recognition for that is that they get to... play the game? Because they're no longer DOS? If they weren't let back into the game, this proposal wouldn't exist at all. It's one thing to highlight off-site actions while DOS, and another thing to praise and celebrate MadJack's return to the site.

Perhaps that wasn't the intention, but to an extent, the current draft feels to me like it harps on that part a bit excessively. Is it really necessary for the Security Council to be "in awe at MadJack’s nearly matchless return" when "practically every other nation with a similar history would have remained permanently exiled" makes MadJack more commendable, and then to declare him "the avatar of second chances," and then to also term him "an exemplar of comebacks." I don't think these phrases really add much insight into MadJack's achievements as a player — which is, if you ask me, where the emphasis would best be placed. After all, it's only because MadJack was let back into the game that they've been able to have those achievements. Why not focus on those achievements themselves?

Thank you for your comprehensive feedback. I’m not sure I’m going to be able to satisfy most of your points, however. As you indicated, the DOS matter has already been litigated quite a bit, and I don’t have any additional information for you on that front. My position on this hasn’t changed. I would direct you to my last post on this subject.

You also noted the concern for character restrictions. I cannot adequately expand on these areas with the characters I have left. Admittedly I am relying on things people know, especially the early stuff. MadJack was a well-known role player and an advocate for roleplay in this game. He was active at a time when many in the community were down on roleplayers, and there was a great divide between them and others in gameplay. His work in that field is legendary and yes, I am relying on that reputation in writing that bit. I am not a constant in the SC resolution writing world, but I understand that there’s a lot between the lines in these resolutions.

I appreciate your point about raiding not being commendable, but I am not commending raiding. I’m not even strictly commending MadJack’s splitting of Osiris’s military, as I have also addressed earlier in this thread. That section is meant to be an example of how MadJack sought compromise in the region, and his efforts to be a bridge between warring factions in his community is what we are commending. I will always disagree that including things that reference raiding are automatically bad, or constitute celebrating them. Context matters. And if you know MadJack, you know how he feels about raiding. You know what his involvement there is. Your characterization of what this is, is not accurate.

I know TNP is not the only region in the game with the kind of relationship we have with our RP community. But you’re asking me to prove something that is very difficult to prove. I would have boasted that he was emulated by other regions if I could, but it wouldn’t be honest to make such a boast without evidence. That doesn’t change the fact that he set an example that others can follow, and the lessons he learned are very useful for others. I have often heard TNP remarked on as a model for handling disparate communities within a community, heard our RP system lauded and hailed as one of the best, and anecdotally have seen some attempt to copy or emulate pieces of it and try to capture some of its success. This tells me we have a good reputation for this, people recognize the work we put into it and why it’s well-made, and that people want to secure some of that success for their small or start up regions. I don’t think I can rightfully point to a community and say “they have adopted out model, MadJack is a trendsetter.” I know his work is admired and recognized abroad, and I know this can serve as a model for other communities, which is why I highlighted it, but I can’t show you a place that’s adopting it no. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, it just means I don’t know about it.

My line about self-immolation and the court stuff is part of the narrative that MadJack overcame a lot and highlights a theme of redemption and second chances. This is present in many of the clauses, as I have previously explained. It is not commendable alone - but someone who had some major setbacks and went on to become a mainstay of gameplay is something to celebrate. I’m not sure why some people feel I should strip all the character and unique history of this individual and stick to a laundry list of basic accomplishments most other commended nominees have. MadJack has a story, and one I think is an interesting one, and it would be a shame to shrug that off. But that takes me back to the DOS argument I already made.

On Alignment was a significant statement. It led to a major shift in not only TNP’s foreign and military policy, but was clearly part of the movement Europeia and Balder engaged in for the last year. I don’t think this is really debatable. MadJack had conversations with both regions, TNP was concerned at the time we might have to do some convincing to get them to accept such a move. That proved unnecessary. The change in their disposition toward the most prominent raiders and their raiding in general is obvious and well-documented by now. We certainly felt that these regions were echoing us and advancing this approach, and we have been in constant communication with them ever since. This was the most public statement on this topic but MadJack had made others, including a summit on this topic some time before On Alignment was posted. I happen to know from our conversations with them that this appearance was crucial in how they evaluated their position on R/D moving forward.

I’m sorry that I don’t really have much more for you. I appreciate you going into things point by point, your feedback is appreciated. I just don’t know how to respond to most of it without repeating what I’ve said previously. I feel I laid out the case as best I could as to why the DOS content is crucial to this draft, and to pretend that it’s not incredibly relevant to this person in particular is to pretend not to notice a defining aspect of this player’s time in this game.