[DRAFT] Declaration on Communism

[Kalivyah]

This is a public conversation and said public conversation can be joined in with. Quit your snarkiness demsoc.

Unrelated,
I don’t see why I, a Conservative, can get along with fascists better than communists and other communists.
You guys should get along better. Even The liberals can get along with the most anti-liberal right wingers and you can’t even get along with the people who want to same things as you. Quit your fighting shake hands and shit.

You can get along with fascists because fascists and conservatives both want the same thing- the continuation of tradition no matter what and the continuation of the status quo.
Many of the so called "anti-fascists" on the right enable them in secret. There was a reason why nobody stepped up to Hitler and Mussolini until they were forced to so they could keep their capital in-cheque. The lack of willingness of war by the ruling class was not that of concern for the proletariat but rather a concern for their own capital as they believed it would all go away if they lost the war.
The fact that you SAY you can get along with fascists concerns me. Most conservatives I know hate fascism the same they hate communism. They don't know what both of them mean but they still hate both of them.

[Alle Deutschland]

Unrelated,
I don’t see why I, a Conservative, can get along with fascists better than communists and other communists.
You guys should get along better. Even The liberals can get along with the most anti-liberal right wingers and you can’t even get along with the people who want to same things as you. Quit your fighting shake hands and shit.

You can get along with fascists because fascists and conservatives both want the same thing- the continuation of tradition no matter what and the continuation of the status quo.
Many of the so called "anti-fascists" on the right enable them in secret. There was a reason why nobody stepped up to Hitler and Mussolini until they were forced to so they could keep their capital in-cheque. The lack of willingness of war by the ruling class was not that of concern for the proletariat but rather a concern for their own capital as they believed it would all go away if they lost the war.
The fact that you SAY you can get along with fascists concerns me. Most conservatives I know hate fascism the same they hate communism. They don't know what both of them mean but they still hate both of them.

I hate to ask again, but everyone is no longer really talking about the topic, so I'll just interject.

Why is N*zism banned?

[Repreteop]

Go to any of the many Communism discussion threads if you want to discuss the ideology. Regardless if you think you're in the right here, the WA forbids condemning ideology (and yes, that includes fascism - the mods banned that one, not the WA). Those are the rules.

Edit: I meant N*zism, not fascism

Why is N*zism banned?

Because people shouldn't be allowed to larp as a genocidal regime, its better to ban a closeted ideology that nobody is proud of than to offend the following:

Jews, Romani (Gypsies), Slavs (Including Polish and most of Eastern Europe), Homosexuals, Transgender folk, Communists (and leftists as a whole), Jehovahs Witnesses, Roman Catholics, etc, and worst of all, ME!!!

[Crimson Tree]

Cough
For the sake of all future discussions I will state that despite being left-leaning I, unlike my peers, have literally nothing against right-wing supporters, and any statements I make that may seem like I'm trying to cause sh*t are made in good faith as banter.
I'm just unsure if the WA has any significant weight on ideologies.

[Alle Deutschland]

Why is N*zism banned?

Because people shouldn't be allowed to larp as a genocidal regime, its better to ban a closeted ideology that nobody is proud of than to offend the following:

Jews, Romani (Gypsies), Slavs (Including Polish and most of Eastern Europe), Homosexuals, Transgender folk, Communists (and leftists as a whole), Jehovahs Witnesses, Roman Catholics, etc, and worst of all, ME!!!

But, I feel that you could make this statement about Communism, and several other totalitarian ideologies. I guess I just don't get it.

[Alle Deutschland]

Because people shouldn't be allowed to larp as a genocidal regime, its better to ban a closeted ideology that nobody is proud of than to offend the following:

Jews, Romani (Gypsies), Slavs (Including Polish and most of Eastern Europe), Homosexuals, Transgender folk, Communists (and leftists as a whole), Jehovahs Witnesses, Roman Catholics, etc, and worst of all, ME!!!

But, I feel that you could make this statement about Communism, and several other totalitarian ideologies. I guess I just don't get it.

In fact, to play as certain ideologies in NS and take it seriously, such as Tyranny By Majority or Iron Fist Consumerists, which denote Communism and Fascism respectively, would be rather worrying. I would think that a Jewish fellow ought be able to RP a N*zi nation, as much as a businessman ought be able to RP a Communist one. Strange to think some people believe it's "unfortunate" that someone be allowed to RP one or the other. That's just me though.

[Dimetrodon Empire]

Regardless of one's opinion on communism, this proposal isn't even a serious attempt at a declaration and is just another resolution with the sole purpose of the OP garnering attention for themselves.

[Aguaria Major]

So, you'd oppose it on ideological grounds and fling argumentative shit about it (like you're doing right now), rather than opposing it based on breaking WA precedent and actually attempting to condemn and ideology rather than a region or nation,

JUST LIKE I THOUGHT?!

Why, then, are you giving me flak for supposedly opposing this "proposal" based on ideology (which, for the 5th time, I DON'T), when YOU JUST ADMITTED THAT YOU'D DO THE SAME IF A PROPOSAL CONDEMNING CAPITALISM CAME ABOUT?!

How old are you? Because these "debate" tactics are those of an 8th-grader who knows he's losing.



You literally just admitted that you'd oppose the hypothetical shitpost condemning capitalism because it would've "said something mean about my ideology". So no, I really can't stop bashing you for being a hypocrite.

Also, for the 6th time:

I AM AGAINST THIS PROPOSAL BECAUSE THE WA CAN'T BAN ANY IDEOLOGIES, AND BECAUSE IT'S A SHITPOST. NOT because it attacks my specific ideology.

Please learn how to read.

I expected a better response other than just complaining and whining.

Do you not see the irony in this statement? You refuse to accept that this proposal is invalid for the purposes of the WA, and have been doing nothing other than flinging ad hominem attacks at me and constructing strawman arguments about what I believe, as opposed to ACTUALLY DISCUSSING THE WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROPOSAL IS SUITABLE FOR THE WA (it isn't),

which, spoiler alert, IS WHAT THESE THREADS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FOR.

I think it’s clear you are against it because it opposes your ideology considering your consistent need to remind all the “stupid fascist 8th graders” that you’re just against it because the WA won’t ban ideologies.

I have taken no other position on this proposal other than that it's a shitpost with no actual WA merit; this entire interaction started because you told me what I supposedly believe about this proposal for me, and because I subsequently corrected you.

To assume that my position on this "proposal" has been anything other than what I have openly and consistently advocated for is illogical.

You, by contrast, have openly admitted to opposing a similar hypothetical proposal because you just hate communism, and not because said hypothetical would be a shitpost that breaks WA protocol.

All that is to say, that what you just did there is a massive case of projection.

The logic of "well you've claimed it so therefore you must actually believe the opposite" itself also reeks of projection given your inability to actually refute the claim that you're a noob; have you been here before on other accounts? By all means, tell us so that the public can look into your history on NS, or so that we can know for sure that you have no idea what you're doing here, noob.

“So, you'd oppose it on ideological grounds and fling argumentative shit about it (like you're doing right now),”

If that’s what you think of a discussion about the points presented

No, that's what I call starting a 2-hour thread full of strawmen and baseless ad hominems (and refusals to actually discuss whether or not this "proposal" is suitable for the WA, based on rules you clearly have yet to learn) because you (incorrectly) think that I oppose this "proposal" for a reason that I do not, yet double down for no reason whenever I (the person whose ideas you're actually discussing) correct you on that matter.

You started this for no reason other than to pick a fight. Like a monkey, flinging shit.

then yes, you can complain all about how there’s “nothing to discuss about this mean old commie hater’s short proposal”

There isn't though;

This forum is for discussing the viability of WA proposals (which cannot ban ideologies), and not debates on ideology. The point of mine that you just brushed off is thus an extremely valid reason for being against this proposal, as well as not wishing to discuss its ideological merits.

Don't shit the bed because you don't know how this game works yet.

there’s still a discussion to be had about what he has presented both from this proposal and his many other shitty proposals about communism.

Not here there isn't. Go to NS general for this shit. THE WA CANNOT ENDORSE OR CONDEMN IDEOLOGIES.

I understand that it can’t be banned,

You clearly do not. The quoted section of your post prior to this one is in direct contradiction with this idea.

that doesn’t stop the fact that there’s a problem with communism, which is the exact problems that capitalism has itself, and even more problems than capitalism has.

I reiterate: go to NS general for this shit.

“I can’t stop bashing you for being a hypocrite”
You can, it’s when you realize there is no hypocrite for you to bash only just you arguing with a mirror at that point.

Says the boy who started this fight by constructing a strawman about why I oppose this "proposal", condemning the actions and beliefs outlined in said strawman, then admitting to exactly the same type of behaviors if the point of the "proposal" happened to be reversed (so yes, there clearly is a hypocrite for me to bash, and it is indeed you),

only to ignore all the evidence on my behalf which exposes said strawman as such;

you literally invented a foe to argue with that isn't there, then admitted to exhibiting the same behaviors you condemned this fictitious foe for were you in a similar situation.

The irony of you claiming that I am "arguing with a mirror" is so dense that it is in danger of going supernova and forming a black hole.

Unrelated to your argument (very shitty at that):

Again: you literally invented a foe to argue with that isn't there, then admitted to exhibiting the same behaviors you condemned this fictitious foe for were you in a similar situation, all while ignoring any actual criticisms of mine against this "proposal" for breaking the rules of the WA.

What is that, if not shitty arguing?!

Please stop projecting.

You mentioned earlier that nationstates is “just a game” and communism doesn’t have to corrupt or something like that.
Then what would be the point of communism in nationstates?
If communist countries apparently can’t be corrupt in this game, then what would be the point? Wouldn’t that mean capitalism can’t be corrupt in this game too leading to no need for communism as all the problems with capitalism would of disappeared? A very stupid point of yours as that just completely destroys the need for your nation’s existence.

First of all: communist countries absolutely can be corrupt in this game. So can capitalist ones. Your basic knowledge of the software of this game is at least on par with the quality of the rest of your arguments.

Secondly (and most importantly):

This is your biggest strawman yet - I never said any of this. Please discuss it with whomever actually said it in NS General.

Are you schizophrenic and off your meds or something?

[Japanese Werwolf Guerillas]

Unrelated,
I don’t see why I, a Conservative, can get along with fascists better than communists and other communists.
You guys should get along better. Even The liberals can get along with the most anti-liberal right wingers and you can’t even get along with the people who want to same things as you. Quit your fighting shake hands and shit.

You can get along with fascists because fascists and conservatives both want the same thing- the continuation of tradition no matter what and the continuation of the status quo.
Many of the so called "anti-fascists" on the right enable them in secret. There was a reason why nobody stepped up to Hitler and Mussolini until they were forced to so they could keep their capital in-cheque. The lack of willingness of war by the ruling class was not that of concern for the proletariat but rather a concern for their own capital as they believed it would all go away if they lost the war.
The fact that you SAY you can get along with fascists concerns me. Most conservatives I know hate fascism the same they hate communism. They don't know what both of them mean but they still hate both of them.

I mean I’ve met fascists before and I don’t start barking at them whenever I see them. We can get along like normal people and don’t just hate each other because our ideologies are different. And to top it all off, as you said, we both want the same things. We find common ground, whilst you communists, who want the same things, are somehow incapable of finding common ground.
Look at all the leftist ideologies and tell me which ones haven’t at some point in time absolutely despised each other?

[Aguaria Major]

You have no right to talk about "nonsense", Ms. Stalin Apologist. Stay out of matters that do not concern you.

This is a public conversation and said public conversation can be joined in with. Quit your snarkiness demsoc.

It's funny how you support public consensus only when it gives you the ability to "own the anarkiddies", vanguardist.

I'm an ancom and you know it, so kindly dispense with the faux condemnation of "snarkiness".

[Untecna]

Regardless of one's opinion on communism, this proposal isn't even a serious attempt at a declaration and is just another resolution with the sole purpose of the OP garnering attention for themselves.

The fact that this has become an NSG thread with no one who has argued over opinions caring about this notion you've brought up baffles me.

NN has done this before. Honestly, this thread should have died a while back...

[Dimetrodon Empire]

Regardless of one's opinion on communism, this proposal isn't even a serious attempt at a declaration and is just another resolution with the sole purpose of the OP garnering attention for themselves.

The fact that this has become an NSG thread with no one who has argued over opinions caring about this notion you've brought up baffles me.

NN has done this before. Honestly, this thread should have died a while back...

Indeed, I seen all his previous antics. OP has done the bare minimum to make an actual resolution yet people treat this proposal as serious. One can tell by the way it is written that he does not expect it to pass. If he did, he would have put more effort into it.

[Untecna]

The fact that this has become an NSG thread with no one who has argued over opinions caring about this notion you've brought up baffles me.

NN has done this before. Honestly, this thread should have died a while back...

Indeed, I seen all his previous antics. OP has done the bare minimum to make an actual resolution yet people treat this proposal as serious. One can tell by the way it is written that he does not expect it to pass. If he did, he would have put more effort into it.

Oh no, he expects this shit to pass. He's done it before and hasn't listened to anyone, citing "WA elite bad" as if a WA elite actually exists.

[Dimetrodon Empire]

Oh no, he expects this shit to pass. He's done it before and hasn't listened to anyone, citing "WA elite bad" as if a WA elite actually exists.

No he doesn't. Even the "WA elite bad" posts are to gain further attention.

[Aguaria Major]

Dude, I literally said the opposite of that. The first sentence of the post you quoted separates my real-world position on fascism from my in-game one.

I have reread your original reply and the back and forth between you and the other guy, and correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you’re lamenting on the fact the fascist nations are allowed to exist on NS.

The original comment you are taking issue with reads as follows:

"If this were the real world, I would agree with you.

But unfortunately, fascist NS nations are allowed to exist, and only ever have action taken against them directly by the WA if they commit to raiding. They are also allowed to exist, as per the site rules, as long as they don't display swastikas or other overt Nazi imagery."

The first sentence is a statement of differentiation between my real world position and in-game position, said in-game position being, as should be clear from the second paragraph,

that I may not like fascist NS nations, but they should still be allowed to exist.

The key phrase there is "I WOULD agree with you". The use of it in contrast to the phrase "if this were the real world", conveys no other meaning than my in-game and real world positions on fascist nations being allowed to exist being DIFFERENT. Which, they are.

Afterall, you don't see me drafting proposals to ban fascist nations from the site, do you?

Please learn some basic reading comprehension.

So much for condemning the use of ad hominems.

That insult would only be an ad hominem if it was directed against you, and not anything related to the position you have taken. But given that your position in this little argument is that I conveyed something through the written word which I clearly did not (that is to say, your position is a direct result of you failing to comprehend the written word), it actually is directed at your position.

[Hvernzan]

Why is N*zism banned?

Because people shouldn't be allowed to larp as a genocidal regime, its better to ban a closeted ideology that nobody is proud of than to offend the following:

Jews, Romani (Gypsies), Slavs (Including Polish and most of Eastern Europe), Homosexuals, Transgender folk, Communists (and leftists as a whole), Jehovahs Witnesses, Roman Catholics, etc, and worst of all, ME!!!

Then communism should be banned since it’s a genocidal ideology that offends Cossacks, Ukrainians, Polish and parts of Europe as a whole, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Capitalists (and rightists as a whole), and worst of all, ME!!!

[Untecna]

Oh no, he expects this shit to pass. He's done it before and hasn't listened to anyone, citing "WA elite bad" as if a WA elite actually exists.

No he doesn't. Even the "WA elite bad" posts are to gain further attention.

Clearly. Not like looking through his posts in the SC tell a different story

He's been doing this for quite a while now and argues constantly with every person that opposes it. I fully believe that he is serious and expects his shit to pass.

Seriously

[Racoda]

I will say it again. I already mentioned that it was short and also referenced his history of short proposals in the sentence. Please read the full post before slamming your greasy fingers on your keyboard.

I have no idea what you’re going on about but all I hear in my head when reading this is baby gibberish.

-snip-

-snip-

This would merit a ban with your history, but considering you're posting past ban, I'm flagging a GM to *** DEAT for ban evasion ***

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[...]
You started this for no reason other than to pick a fight. Like a monkey, flinging shit.
[...]
Don't shit the bed because you don't know how this game works yet.
[...]
Are you schizophrenic and off your meds or something?

Aguaria Major: +a, +b: *** WARNED for threadjacking + flamebaiting ***. Consider using the forum's foe option next time.

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Alle Deutschland: Unofficial warning for threadjack. Please read the rules.

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This thread will remain locked. If Nationalist Northumbria wants to continue drafting this, they can ask for an unlock in the moderation forum.