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(Retracted)Repeal SCR #263

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Tinhampton
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Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:20 pm

The Civitas Islands wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:All I do is step away from the computer to start a new game of Football Manager Handheld 2013 for what feels like the first time in five years for a couple of hours and all of a sudden Civvie's only gone and submitted it... why did you believe that 2.5 hours was a sufficent drafting period for a controversial-by-definition proposal authored by a resident of the affected region?

(I've led Juve Stabia to a valliant zero-points-out-of-nine start, for what it's worth.)

"Because it's not the language of the proposal that is being challenged. It is the intent. Discussions over intent can happen during the proposal phase."

To be clear, your proposal was drafted between:
1am and 3am in India
2:30am and 4:30am in western Indonesia, including Jakarta
3:30am and 5:30am in Singapore, China, the Phillippines, Western Australia, and much of eastern Indonesia
4:30am and 6:30am in South Korea and Japan
5am and 7am in Southern Australia and the Northern Territory
5:30am and 7:30am in Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria and Tasmania

Your decision to draft this proposal for two hours, without editing at all in that timeframe, has deprived almost every single player living in those areas of the world - which harbour a significant part of the global population, including high-ranking CCD figures and prominent Security Council authors - of an opportunity to comment on the "intent" of your proposal. Not least since it is a Monday in all of those countries.

You know how to draft a proposal over a multiple-day period. It is disappointing that you did not do so here - especially when there is a proposal at vote for the next three days, which will substantially increase the chances of your repeal getting quorum-raided (compared to if you had submitted with twelve hours left on the at-vote clock).
Last edited by Tinhampton on Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Anne of Cleves in TNP
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Anne of Cleves in TNP » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:24 pm

OOC: I’m not sure what to think of this. Most clauses check out, yet the CCD has a totalitarian tag, which might contradict the observing clause. Furthermore, the CCD has an anti-WA tag and has attempted to do self-commendations, which are really off-putting.
Last edited by Anne of Cleves in TNP on Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IC Name: The Clevesian Empire
Capital: New Cleves
Leader: Empress Anne of Cleves III
Failed WA Proposals: “Repeal: Comfortable Pillows for All Protocol”
IC WA Minister: Lady Charlotte Schafer
“This is the part where you run from your proposal.”

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WayNeacTia
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Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:26 pm

Tinhampton wrote:All I do is step away from the computer to start a new game of Football Manager Handheld 2013 for what feels like the first time in five years for a couple of hours and all of a sudden Civvie's only gone and submitted it. (I've led Juve Stabia to a valliant zero-points-out-of-nine start, for what it's worth.)

For the author: Why did you believe that two hours was a sufficent drafting period for a controversial-by-definition proposal authored by a resident of the affected region?

I'll give him credit.... It was smart move submitting over the July 4th weekend. If only it had just been submitted, and not had attention drawn to it by this thread, it may have had a slim chance of slipping into quorum.
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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The Civitas Islands
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Civitas Islands » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:29 pm

Anne of Cleves in TNP wrote:OOC: I’m not sure what to think of this. Most clauses check out, yet the CCD has a totalitarian tag, which might contradict the observing clause. Furthermore, the CCD had an anti-WA tag and has attempted to do self-commendations, which are really off-putting.

With respect to repeated self commendations, I am in total agreement with you there. Our growth as a region with respect to the world stage is only just beginning, and I think this is a good first step. Shed the old to begin anew.
[i]Senator William Hammond, HCIL
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

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The Civitas Islands
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Civitas Islands » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:34 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:All I do is step away from the computer to start a new game of Football Manager Handheld 2013 for what feels like the first time in five years for a couple of hours and all of a sudden Civvie's only gone and submitted it. (I've led Juve Stabia to a valliant zero-points-out-of-nine start, for what it's worth.)

For the author: Why did you believe that two hours was a sufficent drafting period for a controversial-by-definition proposal authored by a resident of the affected region?

I'll give him credit.... It was smart move submitting over the July 4th weekend. If only it had just been submitted, and not had attention drawn to it by this thread, it may have had a slim chance of slipping into quorum.

"My intention is not to hide it. I welcome the debate this legislation brings, which is why I started this thread. I simply think that there is no point in letting this rest in draft phase while we debate it. We can just as easily debate this while it is in the proposal queue."
[i]Senator William Hammond, HCIL
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

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WayNeacTia
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Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:37 pm

The Civitas Islands wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:I'll give him credit.... It was smart move submitting over the July 4th weekend. If only it had just been submitted, and not had attention drawn to it by this thread, it may have had a slim chance of slipping into quorum.

"My intention is not to hide it. I welcome the debate this legislation brings, which is why I started this thread. I simply think that there is no point in letting this rest in draft phase while we debate it. We can just as easily debate this while it is in the proposal queue."

It's not going to make the queue. A queued proposal has enough approvals to be a quorum. This won't make quorum and you know that.....
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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The Civitas Islands
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Civitas Islands » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:40 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
The Civitas Islands wrote:"My intention is not to hide it. I welcome the debate this legislation brings, which is why I started this thread. I simply think that there is no point in letting this rest in draft phase while we debate it. We can just as easily debate this while it is in the proposal queue."

It's not going to make the queue. A queued proposal has enough approvals to be a quorum. This won't make quorum and you know that.....

"Yes apologies for the imprecise language, but you know what I mean. While this waits for approvals, we can still debate its intent."
[i]Senator William Hammond, HCIL
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

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WayNeacTia
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Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:42 pm

The Civitas Islands wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:It's not going to make the queue. A queued proposal has enough approvals to be a quorum. This won't make quorum and you know that.....

"Yes apologies for the imprecise language, but you know what I mean. While this waits for approvals, we can still debate its intent."

Have you cleared all of this with Shrew?
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Honeydewistania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Honeydewistania » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:48 pm

Submitted by a CCD member with minimal drafting? Yeah, against this.
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The Civitas Islands
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Civitas Islands » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:49 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
The Civitas Islands wrote:"Yes apologies for the imprecise language, but you know what I mean. While this waits for approvals, we can still debate its intent."

Have you cleared all of this with Shrew?

"No, actually. Justice does not seek permission before acting. I am a WA member nation with years of experience predating the Confederation. I have spent enough time in the region to see that this liberation is outdated and unwarranted stain on the nations of this region. I see great potential in this region for the future and I'd like to see us put the past behind us and move forward."
[i]Senator William Hammond, HCIL
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

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The Civitas Islands
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Civitas Islands » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:50 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:Submitted by a CCD member with minimal drafting? Yeah, against this.

"I'm sorry you cannot look at this more closely than that."
[i]Senator William Hammond, HCIL
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

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Honeydewistania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Honeydewistania » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:51 pm

The Civitas Islands wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:Submitted by a CCD member with minimal drafting? Yeah, against this.

"I'm sorry you cannot look at this more closely than that."

No, I cannot. I will take the word of an outside observer on the reforms of CCD, not their new mouthpiece.
Home of the first best pizza topping known to NationStates | Prolific Security Council Author (15x resolutions written) | Not that one fraud, Pineappleistania(ew) | Mouthpiece for Melons' first-rate SC takes | read this please

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The Civitas Islands
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Postby The Civitas Islands » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:53 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:
The Civitas Islands wrote:"I'm sorry you cannot look at this more closely than that."

No, I cannot. I will take the word of an outside observer on the reforms of CCD, not their new mouthpiece.

"Or you could look for yourself. I did. I have lots of experience in regional government long before I very recently joined the Confederation. I am no mouthpiece. I'm not asking you to take my word for it, I'm asking you to see for yourself."
[i]Senator William Hammond, HCIL
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

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WayNeacTia
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Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:55 pm

The Civitas Islands wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Have you cleared all of this with Shrew?

"No, actually. Justice does not seek permission before acting. I am a WA member nation with years of experience predating the Confederation. I have spent enough time in the region to see that this liberation is outdated and unwarranted stain on the nations of this region. I see great potential in this region for the future and I'd like to see us put the past behind us and move forward."

You may want to. It is usually a good idea to keep the official mouthpiece of the region in the know, seeing as how he is going to have to come out here and defend this.....
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Honeydewistania
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Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Honeydewistania » Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:58 pm

The Civitas Islands wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:No, I cannot. I will take the word of an outside observer on the reforms of CCD, not their new mouthpiece.

"Or you could look for yourself. I did. I have lots of experience in regional government long before I very recently joined the Confederation. I am no mouthpiece. I'm not asking you to take my word for it, I'm asking you to see for yourself."

Well that doesn't matter, because people will take one look at your region of origin and vote against. If you want this to genuinely pass, you'd be more careful with the way you've handled this.
Home of the first best pizza topping known to NationStates | Prolific Security Council Author (15x resolutions written) | Not that one fraud, Pineappleistania(ew) | Mouthpiece for Melons' first-rate SC takes | read this please

Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass

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The Civitas Islands
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Postby The Civitas Islands » Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:00 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
The Civitas Islands wrote:"No, actually. Justice does not seek permission before acting. I am a WA member nation with years of experience predating the Confederation. I have spent enough time in the region to see that this liberation is outdated and unwarranted stain on the nations of this region. I see great potential in this region for the future and I'd like to see us put the past behind us and move forward."

You may want to. It is usually a good idea to keep the official mouthpiece of the region in the know, seeing as how he is going to have to come out here and defend this.....

"Had I still been a member of my previous regions, I would have not had to ask his permission, and I don't need it now. I'm not addressing this Council as a mouthpiece of the Confederation, I am addressing it as a WA member nation who happens to reside there. The liberation is a blatant obvious example of an outdated resolution most worthy of repeal, and I believe this new region I have come to call home should not continue to have its reputation so tarnished by such inaccuracies."
Last edited by The Civitas Islands on Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[i]Senator William Hammond, HCIL
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

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The Civitas Islands
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Postby The Civitas Islands » Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:02 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:
The Civitas Islands wrote:"Or you could look for yourself. I did. I have lots of experience in regional government long before I very recently joined the Confederation. I am no mouthpiece. I'm not asking you to take my word for it, I'm asking you to see for yourself."

Well that doesn't matter, because people will take one look at your region of origin and vote against. If you want this to genuinely pass, you'd be more careful with the way you've handled this.

"I do want this to pass, or I wouldn't be expending the effort. It is disappointing that by simply residing in the region in question may turn people away, but it does not mean I am wrong."
[i]Senator William Hammond, HCIL
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

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WayNeacTia
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Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:07 pm

The Civitas Islands wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:You may want to. It is usually a good idea to keep the official mouthpiece of the region in the know, seeing as how he is going to have to come out here and defend this.....

"Had I still been a member of my previous regions, I would have not had to ask his permission, and I don't need it now. I'm not addressing this Council as a mouthpiece of the Confederation, I am addressing it as a WA member nation who happens to reside there. The liberation is a blatant obvious example of an outdated resolution most worthy of repeal, and I believe this new region I have come to call home should not continue to have its reputation so tarnished by such inaccuracies."

I never said you were a mouthpiece. Please actually try to read what people write, instead of reiterating the same shit over and over. I said "You may want to. It is usually a good idea to keep the official mouthpiece of the region in the know, seeing as how he is going to have to come out here and defend this....."
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Honeydewistania
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Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Honeydewistania » Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:13 pm

The Civitas Islands wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:Well that doesn't matter, because people will take one look at your region of origin and vote against. If you want this to genuinely pass, you'd be more careful with the way you've handled this.

"I do want this to pass, or I wouldn't be expending the effort. It is disappointing that by simply residing in the region in question may turn people away, but it does not mean I am wrong."

It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. The reckless way you've approached this topic will be massive pitfalls in getting this to pass. Whether or not it is disappointing that people will vote against because of how quickly you submitted this or where you're from, this will be defeated, and you would have wasted your time and effort and added extra insulation to the topic making it harder to repeal in the future. Your opinion on something being right or wrong doesn't make it any less significant so if I were you I would withdraw this immediately and at least draft in for several weeks or try and find literally anyone not in the CCD who would pursue this.
Home of the first best pizza topping known to NationStates | Prolific Security Council Author (15x resolutions written) | Not that one fraud, Pineappleistania(ew) | Mouthpiece for Melons' first-rate SC takes | read this please

Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass

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Jocospor
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Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Jocospor » Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:21 pm

The author of the former proposal is only very new to the Confederation. As such, I can understand his enthusiasm and relative-naivety regarding the lingering matter of the Confederation's liberation. However, the author did not consult with the necessary authorities or the general community before putting this motion to the Security Council. Those necessary authorities, whilst appreciative of the author's efforts, have encouraged him to withdraw his work for now, which he has done in good faith.

The Confederation looks forward to revisiting this matter when it can, at the right time, with the right support, and abiding by the appropriate customs. We remain conscious that our last efforts in this matter turned ugly for some players, and we want to avoid a repeat of such ugliness at all costs.

Thank you for the civility you have showed to the former proposal and its author.
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | IMPERIAL OFFICES
JOCOSPOR | CENTRAL IMPERIAL DIREKTORATE


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Outer Sparta
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Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:18 pm

The Civitas Islands wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:Well that doesn't matter, because people will take one look at your region of origin and vote against. If you want this to genuinely pass, you'd be more careful with the way you've handled this.

"I do want this to pass, or I wouldn't be expending the effort. It is disappointing that by simply residing in the region in question may turn people away, but it does not mean I am wrong."

So was it or was it not yet another self-repeal attempt by the CCD?
Free Palestine, stop the genocide in Gaza

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WayNeacTia
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Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:09 am

Outer Sparta wrote:
The Civitas Islands wrote:"I do want this to pass, or I wouldn't be expending the effort. It is disappointing that by simply residing in the region in question may turn people away, but it does not mean I am wrong."

So was it or was it not yet another self-repeal attempt by the CCD?

The actual CCD appeared not to be involved. This appears to be a rogue operation....
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Founded: Dec 17, 2003
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:45 am

Wayneactia wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:So was it or was it not yet another self-repeal attempt by the CCD?

The actual CCD appeared not to be involved. This appears to be a rogue operation....

New member trying to look good in front of their masters.
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

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