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[Standby] Repeal SC-189 "Liberate St Abaddon"

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:03 pm
by Hansdeltania
First draft and first proposal ever, draft in box below

Resolution in question

Security Council Resolution #189 "Liberate St Abaddon" shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

The Security Council:

Recognizing that World Assembly Security Council Resolution #189, hereinafter referred to as SC-189, was drafted and passed for the purpose of preserving St Abaddon and its rich history,

Understanding that SC-189 was also passed in hopes that "World Assembly Liberation will hinder the efforts of the occupiers,"

Acknowledging that the Resolution in question had the opposite effect of deterring raiders, as seen by raids by the Brotherhood of Malice on 18 April 2022 and 16 May 2022,

Believing that the Resolution has not been effective as cited by the aforementioned raids in 2022 as of (insert date here),

Wishing for the current legal administration of St Abaddon to be able to take appropriate measures as they deem fit for the security of their region and its inhabitants,

Hereby repeals SC-189 "Liberate St Abaddon"


Note: proposal put on indefinite standby 23 June 2022

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:14 pm
by Morover
Has the rightful government of St Abaddon reclaimed the region, or is it still in the hands of the Brotherhood?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:16 pm
by Tinhampton
The April 18th and May 16th raids were tag raids. I do not see the point in arguing that a Liberation has failed at its purpose because of two tag raids.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:44 pm
by Astrobolt
Is there native consent for the repeal?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:46 pm
by Frenchy II
I would like this a lot! For!

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:41 pm
by Draganisia
1. Yes the true St Abbaddon government is in control.

2. We just want to be left alone so that we can do our RP in peace without having to worry about being raided.

If Repealing the Liberation and putting in a password does help us do this than we are All For It !!!

Frenchy II wrote:I would like this a lot! For!


I hope your intentions for supporting this are peaceful :)

Truth is I don't hate most raiders. In fact I absolutely love those who go after the really bad regions... But I do hate those who try to hurt innocent regions like our St Abbaddon and these "tag raids" are hurting.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:31 pm
by Wayneactia
Draganisia wrote:1. Yes the true St Abbaddon government is in control.

2. We just want to be left alone so that we can do our RP in peace without having to worry about being raided.

If Repealing the Liberation and putting in a password does help us do this than we are All For It !!!

Frenchy II wrote:I would like this a lot! For!


I hope your intentions for supporting this are peaceful :)

Truth is I don't hate most raiders. In fact I absolutely love those who go after the really bad regions... But I do hate those who try to hurt innocent regions like our St Abbaddon and these "tag raids" are hurting.

May want to keep in the mind the old Chinese proverb, "Be careful what you wish for, it may come true........"

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:47 am
by Draganisia
Wayneactia wrote:
Draganisia wrote:1. Yes the true St Abbaddon government is in control.

2. We just want to be left alone so that we can do our RP in peace without having to worry about being raided.

If Repealing the Liberation and putting in a password does help us do this than we are All For It !!!



I hope your intentions for supporting this are peaceful :)

Truth is I don't hate most raiders. In fact I absolutely love those who go after the really bad regions... But I do hate those who try to hurt innocent regions like our St Abbaddon and these "tag raids" are hurting.

May want to keep in the mind the old Chinese proverb, "Be careful what you wish for, it may come true........"


What we are wishing for is that the raids stop Once And For All !!!

This needs to happen so that we can continue our RP in St Abbaddon with our current government without moving to a different region and without worrying about being raided ever again. Period

This is what we wish to come true.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:51 am
by Anne of Cleves in TNP
OOC: So it is clear that the people of the region approve, but the argument of this repeal is very weak. Two tag raids are simply not stable grounds for a repeal of a liberation, and do I feel that more research could be find to add stronger arguments.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:22 am
by Wayneactia
Draganisia wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:May want to keep in the mind the old Chinese proverb, "Be careful what you wish for, it may come true........"


What we are wishing for is that the raids stop Once And For All !!!

This needs to happen so that we can continue our RP in St Abbaddon with our current government without moving to a different region and without worrying about being raided ever again. Period

This is what we wish to come true.

You've been around long enough now to know how this works. St. Abby is an ancient battleground, due to its defender leanings. It probably won't shock you to know the region is full of sleepers, just gaining influence. While tag raids are annoying (which is why I don't partake in them) they are just that, annoying. They do very little harm and are easy to clean up. You are better served with the liberation intact. I suggest you consult with Topid, before making any rash decisions....

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:44 am
by Merix
Personally I fully support this, and I don’t understand the argument that “Just because it’s only minor tag raids, we should continue to deprive this region of a right that all other regions have.” It’s perfectly alright for a region to not want to take part in the cesspool that is R/D in order to focus on RP instead. Given that liberations only act as a check on the regional government to open the region to be contested for R/D and take away the authority of the regional government to have a secure region. A liberation should only be used in order to help regions that have been raided, and not used as some sort of limiting force on a region that wishes to stay out of R/D.
And given that this is an RP focused region that wants to have no part in R/D, and is also fully in control of its government, I personally feel that those against the liberation have no valid arguments for why the liberation should stay up, unless for their own ulterior motives.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:40 am
by Bhang Bhang Duc
Anne of Cleves in TNP wrote:OOC: So it is clear that the people of the region approve, but the argument of this repeal is very weak. Two tag raids are simply not stable grounds for a repeal of a liberation, and do I feel that more research could be find to add stronger arguments.

Very true, the arguments for repeal are extremely weak.

However, I think the natives should pay heed to Wayne’s advice as well. Tag raids, while annoying, are easily undone, no long term effects. St Abaddon is a target though and would become even more of one if the Liberation was repealed.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:07 am
by Bhang Bhang Duc
While I respect the wishes of the natives to have the Liberation removed, I’ve been around long enough to realise that within six months of repeal the SC will be voting on a new one.

Edit: could’ve sworn there was a post by Draganisia between my last one and this.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:16 am
by Draganisia
Merix wrote:Personally I fully support this, and I don’t understand the argument that “Just because it’s only minor tag raids, we should continue to deprive this region of a right that all other regions have.” It’s perfectly alright for a region to not want to take part in the cesspool that is R/D in order to focus on RP instead. Given that liberations only act as a check on the regional government to open the region to be contested for R/D and take away the authority of the regional government to have a secure region. A liberation should only be used in order to help regions that have been raided, and not used as some sort of limiting force on a region that wishes to stay out of R/D.
And given that this is an RP focused region that wants to have no part in R/D, and is also fully in control of its government, I personally feel that those against the liberation have no valid arguments for why the liberation should stay up, unless for their own ulterior motives.


Couldn't have said it any better than that ☺️

Problem is that the raiders who do want to hurt innocent regions will always refuse to admit to this.

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Very true, the arguments for repeal are extremely weak.

However, I think the natives should pay heed to Wayne’s advice as well. Tag raids, while annoying, are easily undone, no long term effects. St Abaddon is a target though and would become even more of one if the Liberation was repealed.


There will always be those who want to threaten us whether the Liberation is Repealed or not.

However having a password will help with prevent the raids from ever happening at all.

If you have a better idea besides just having a lot of defenders in the region 24/7 than please share it.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:28 am
by Bhang Bhang Duc
Draganisia wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Very true, the arguments for repeal are extremely weak.

However, I think the natives should pay heed to Wayne’s advice as well. Tag raids, while annoying, are easily undone, no long term effects. St Abaddon is a target though and would become even more of one if the Liberation was repealed.


There will always be those who want to threaten us whether the Liberation is Repealed or not.

However having a password will help with prevent the raids from ever happening at all.

If you have a better idea besides just having a lot of defenders in the region 24/7 than please share it.

Hey, knock yourselves out, more than happy to support a well written repeal with native support. I just think we’ll be back here in no time at all imposing a new Liberation.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:29 am
by Draganisia
Hansdeltania wrote: wall of text


The intention is good but in light of recent feedback I believe it would be best to hold off on this for now at least.

Will see how things go.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:31 am
by Draganisia
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Hey, knock yourselves out, more than happy to support a well written repeal with native support. I just think we’ll be back here in no time at all imposing a new Liberation.


Which is why we won't be doing it for now based on the feedback I am getting.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:34 am
by Andusre
I feel it would be prudent to also remind folks that passwords are by no means a silver bullet to prevent your region from getting raided. An obvious point, for sure, but The Embassy was raided after a months-long campaign by Lily to earn the region's trust - and eventually they acquiesced and gave Lily their regional password. We all know where it went after that, lol.

Arguably more importantly, St Abby has far more nations in it than The Embassy did. St Abby has 129 nations, which means passwording the region with an invisible password will cost approximately 5,000 influence points. Draganisia has the most influence in the region at a little over 20,000 points - meaning that it'd take them a quarter of their influence to get an imperfect protection against being raided.

I have no further opinions on this, really, but just something to bear in mind I think before pressing ahead with repealing the liberation. I'd at the very least recommend waiting until certain raider groups are under control again before proceeding.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:43 am
by Merix
When will raiders, defenders, and the WA understand that some regions simply wish to be left alone to create things for themselves? R/D brings nothing apart from annoyance and stolen time for those who don’t wish to participate in their simple games, and the WA only impedes that goal.
If St. Abbadon wishes to stay out of R/D and keep the nearly 20 year old region secure in order to RP on our own, we should be able to have that guarantee, even if a password isn’t the absolutely perfect way of getting there.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:52 am
by Bhang Bhang Duc
Merix wrote:When will raiders, defenders, and the WA understand that some regions simply wish to be left alone to create things for themselves? R/D brings nothing apart from annoyance and stolen time for those who don’t wish to participate in their simple games, and the WA only impedes that goal.
If St. Abbadon wishes to stay out of R/D and keep the nearly 20 year old region secure in order to RP on our own, we should be able to have that guarantee, even if a password isn’t the absolutely perfect way of getting there.

Well, that ain’t going to happen. R/D has been around from near enough the get go for this game. You can moan about it as much as you like but the long and the short of it is that it’s not going away.

St Abby’s near uniqueness as a game created founderless region has made it a target for as long as I can remember.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:53 am
by Refuge Isle
Merix wrote:When will ... defenders ... understand that some regions simply wish to be left alone to create things for themselves?

You do not have a founder, so you will always be a target, regardless of what degree you want to stay out of r/d. Defenders are reactive to raider activities, so defenders leaving you alone means that when your 20 year old region gets raided, it will be destroyed and refounded, unopposed.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:31 pm
by Wayneactia
Merix wrote:When will raiders, defenders, and the WA understand that some regions simply wish to be left alone to create things for themselves? R/D brings nothing apart from annoyance and stolen time for those who don’t wish to participate in their simple games, and the WA only impedes that goal.
If St. Abbadon wishes to stay out of R/D and keep the nearly 20 year old region secure in order to RP on our own, we should be able to have that guarantee, even if a password isn’t the absolutely perfect way of getting there.

Probably a good thing you aren't in charge of regional policy....

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:16 pm
by The Orwell Society
Support. Now that the local government is back in power, the liberation blocks their given right to password the region even if the only thing they are up against are tag raids.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:17 pm
by Draganisia
Wayneactia wrote:Probably a good thing you aren't in charge of regional policy....


Don't insult him.

He still hit the nail on the head as for why we want to add a password.

However based on recent feedback we will try some other things first and see how it goes.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:28 pm
by Bhang Bhang Duc
The Orwell Society wrote:Support. Now that the local government is back in power, the liberation blocks their given right to password the region even if the only thing they are up against are tag raids.

Did you even read this thread? Posters here have given ample reasons why the Liberation should stay in place, considering the history of the region.