[DRAFT] Condemn The Communist Bloc

[The North Polish Union]

To some of the points made in this thread, I'd like to know if TCB has formulated a position related to Hołodomor denialism and support for the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine.

I've cooperated with TCB on a couple operations now via BoM, but I'd hate to find out I've been doing so with a region that permits anti-Slavic bigotry.

[Fachumonn]

I would appreciate it if someone would send a campaign telegram for me.

Good luck with that. Despite all the feedback you get from experienced players, you continue to deny that this proposal is literally trash.

[Equai]

...That clearly reads that they believe in educating people as to why they are wrong over trying to drop mods on them and post one-liner slogans that contribute nothing other than political grandstanding.

This dude's dropping a post of me outright saying "We value actually educating people over enforcing an 'agree with the mods or get suppressed' stance," as evidence that TCB is some Oppressive Evil Communist Condemnable Regime..? Christ. And I thought they wanted us to tolerate opposing beliefs?

1. TCB's raid of Congress of Armed Proletarian States.
2. Holodomor denial on the RMB, including by regional officers.
3. Their First Minister has talked of "Ukrainian neo-Nazis" (which is Russian propaganda) and threatened to ban people expressing support for Ukraine on the RMB.
4. Support for dictators on the RMB.
5. Embassy and co-operation with North Korea, which glorifies the brutal DPRK dictatorship.
6. Low economic freedom.

Oh this is like. The funniest possible list you could have tried to clap back at Xoriet with here.
I have no idea what no 1. is in reference to, so I can only assume it happened multiple years ago. When I look up the region, I just get some defunct Red Fleet founded legislation region? Certainly too irrelevant to be used in a condemn proposal.
Holodormor denial is always a favorite argument--I recall the accusation stemming from a former R/O discouraging Black Book of Communism levels of exaggeration and misinformation.
Point no 3 is quite possibly the most absurd one to me here. It's, like...completely common knowledge that Ukraine has a neo-nazi problem? Obviously it shouldn't be used as justification for Russian imperialism, but simply acknowledging that Neo-Nazism is prevalent in Ukraine is in no way "Russian propaganda," lmfao. Rightwingers somehow manage to have the most absurdly contrived and sensationalist takes even when they're managing to attempt anti-imperialism for once in their lives.
4, I imagine, is in reference to any form of support for any ideological belief of any historical Communist figures.
5 just makes me want to recommend this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BO83Ig-E8E video to you. It's a good introduction to unlearning Western propaganda about NK.
As for 6, all I can tell you is that absolutely no one considers a large region having some form of statistic you find poor to be condemnable.

...So that's 4/6 OOC complaints, and 2 incredibly weak IC ones. I legitimately don't understand why y'all keep putting so much time and effort into these threads trying to go after us IC for your obviously OOC political beliefs. Why not just find a politics thread to argue in instead? You'd honestly probably be better received there. Because here, even people who hate TCB are against your proposal just because they think it's really bad, lmao.

Actually that is false I would know because I had a puppet there, banned for no reason.

"I had a puppet in TCB that was banned for no reason," says guy with "Black lives can't matter" in signature.

Thanks for the insight in the allegations against TCB. I knew some of them are OOC critics and only in bad faith because of OP's anti-communism, but for some points i really had my mind stopped (mainly due me not having insights in the TCB policies and people) so thanks for giving the clarification for it, tovarish.

Like stated above, Federation of Equai will stand against this poor and distasteful piece of anti-communist resolution.

[Untecna]

...That clearly reads that they believe in educating people as to why they are wrong over trying to drop mods on them and post one-liner slogans that contribute nothing other than political grandstanding.

Well, that's one interpretation.

How the hell else do you interpret his statement, when he clearly referred to like-farming, even over Ukraine, as being a bad thing?

[The King Isle]

What I've been trying to say is that I think this proposal is Trash. And I'm pretty sure it's Illegal since its based on ideology.

[New Astri]

To some of the points made in this thread, I'd like to know if TCB has formulated a position related to Hołodomor denialism and support for the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine.

I've cooperated with TCB on a couple operations now via BoM, but I'd hate to find out I've been doing so with a region that permits anti-Slavic bigotry.

You could try, like...reading the post on the subject literally right before yours instead of making passive-aggressive bad-faith accusations based entirely on the visibly absurd words of a bigot.

[Floppa Lovers]

I'm terrible at second posts ok?

You're heavily misinformed. TCB is really chill to hang out with and their nice. Your claim about ideologies is also false.

Actually that is false I would know because I had a puppet there, banned for no reason.

You sure it’s not because you were openly trolling them?

[Outer Sparta]

To some of the points made in this thread, I'd like to know if TCB has formulated a position related to Hołodomor denialism and support for the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine.

I've cooperated with TCB on a couple operations now via BoM, but I'd hate to find out I've been doing so with a region that permits anti-Slavic bigotry.

Good luck trying to condemn TCB when the only drafts coming out are crap, mainly by those who want that SC badge on their name and nothing else.

[The North Polish Union]

To some of the points made in this thread, I'd like to know if TCB has formulated a position related to Hołodomor denialism and support for the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine.

I've cooperated with TCB on a couple operations now via BoM, but I'd hate to find out I've been doing so with a region that permits anti-Slavic bigotry.

You could try, like...reading the post on the subject literally right before yours instead of making passive-aggressive bad-faith accusations based entirely on the visibly absurd words of a bigot.

"I recall the accusation stemming from a former R/O discouraging Black Book of Communism levels of exaggeration and misinformation" is a statement that is deeply ambiguous as far as answering the question I asked, which is whether has formulated a position related to Hołodomor denialism. It leaves the entire range of opinion open, except for the one contained in the Black Book of Communism (which I admit I haven't read).

If your assertion is correct that accusations of Hołodomor denialism are poorly-grounded, than it should be simple enough to answer my question.

My asking this question comes from a genuine personal strong feeling (if it helps to demonstrate this, I have spent the entirety of my near-decade on NS almost exclusively in a series of pan-Slavic regions), and I have not made any accusations. I even intentionally went to lengths to note that I have cooperated with TCB/PRAF on a number of missions (including the one in Japan this morning) in an effort to demonstrate that I have not been unwilling to work with TCB in the past. I am far from asking these questions in "passive-aggressive bad-faith", do not assume that is the case. Were I acting in bad faith I would never have asked TCB to clarify their position.

[Hecatie]

Please have this pass through. It is known that New Astri is horribli cruel and tyrannic dictatortress. She transed my gender, burned my 1984 copy and whipped out a comically large spoon when i asked her to only have a spoonful of my grandma's homemade icecream. She must be stopped

[The Orwell Society]

Please have this pass through. It is known that New Astri is horribli cruel and tyrannic dictatortress. She transed my gender, burned my 1984 copy and whipped out a comically large spoon when i asked her to only have a spoonful of my grandma's homemade icecream. She must be stopped

Burned my Bible?

[Saksoni]

100% for. TCB needs to be condemned. They treat anyone who doesn't have a radical leftist ideology like trash. I mean, their army is pretty chill and nice, but the region itself is condemnable

They just united under Antifa and "liberated" a one of longest serving democratic regions (Yes, Layem) And look what they wrote. They even tried to send me to rejected realms for that, but i was joining other region at the same time.

[Saksoni]

100% for. TCB needs to be condemned. They treat anyone who doesn't have a radical leftist ideology like trash. I mean, their army is pretty chill and nice, but the region itself is condemnable

They tell that the members "couldnt not live with the calling the claim to live by" and have been "reeducated" and also that "Gameplay shall smite the bigoted and throw them into the fiery pit"
Btw all those who invaded Layem just hate freedom of speech, we werent doin anything wrong.
And because i wanted it back, i got banned from saying anything. The whole story.

[Fachumonn]

This proposal is just people condemning them because they hate communism (probably from the American societal propaganda about communism)

[Goobergunchia]

And I'm pretty sure it's Illegal since its based on ideology.

Not a rules issue -- communism exists IC.

[New Samon]

I am in full support of anything that opposes the heinous activities of the Communist Bloc. Very based proposal; TCB must be stopped!

[The Orwell Society]

I am in full support of anything that opposes the heinous activities of the Communist Bloc. Very based proposal; TCB must be stopped!

If you read the rest of the thread, maybe you would change your mind.

This proposal is just people condemning them because they hate communism (probably from the American societal propaganda about communism)

I don't hate communism.

100% for. TCB needs to be condemned. They treat anyone who doesn't have a radical leftist ideology like trash. I mean, their army is pretty chill and nice, but the region itself is condemnable

They just united under Antifa and "liberated" a one of longest serving democratic regions (Yes, Layem) And look what they wrote. They even tried to send me to rejected realms for that, but i was joining other region at the same time.

Layem deserved what it got.

100% for. TCB needs to be condemned. They treat anyone who doesn't have a radical leftist ideology like trash. I mean, their army is pretty chill and nice, but the region itself is condemnable

They tell that the members "couldnt not live with the calling the claim to live by" and have been "reeducated" and also that "Gameplay shall smite the bigoted and throw them into the fiery pit"
Btw all those who invaded Layem just hate freedom of speech, we werent doin anything wrong.
And because i wanted it back, i got banned from saying anything. The whole story.

Freedom of speech? On NS? You have too high of expectations. TCB and others didn't raid Layem because they hated freedom of speech l. They raided it because it was a bigoted, hateful thorn in the side of everyone in Gameplay.

And for the record, I wrote that before I found out the author's true reasoning for this. I'm against now.

[Raskana]

I am in full support of anything that opposes the heinous activities of the Communist Bloc. Very based proposal; TCB must be stopped!

If you read the rest of the thread, maybe you would change your mind.

This proposal is just people condemning them because they hate communism (probably from the American societal propaganda about communism)

I don't hate communism.

They just united under Antifa and "liberated" a one of longest serving democratic regions (Yes, Layem) And look what they wrote. They even tried to send me to rejected realms for that, but i was joining other region at the same time.

Layem deserved what it got.

They tell that the members "couldnt not live with the calling the claim to live by" and have been "reeducated" and also that "Gameplay shall smite the bigoted and throw them into the fiery pit"
Btw all those who invaded Layem just hate freedom of speech, we werent doin anything wrong.
And because i wanted it back, i got banned from saying anything. The whole story.

Freedom of speech? On NS? You have too high of expectations. TCB and others didn't raid Layem because they hated freedom of speech l. They raided it because it was a bigoted, hateful thorn in the side of everyone in Gameplay.

And for the record, I wrote that before I found out the author's true reasoning for this. I'm against now.

Likewise, i guess.

[The Universe World]

Here. They also admit that support for Russia's invasion is allowed in the region.

I don't see any genocide denial. It' just New Astri trying to combat like-farming posts. In fact, I agree with Astri. Like farming posts are not acceptable, even if for Ukraine.

Yes. Like farming by exploiting causes is bad both morally and for the cause. I remember when people would say "Reply to my post with #BlackLivesMatter!" What ended up happening was that the hashtag was filled with people replying to posts with that instead of information and news.

[The Orwell Society]

I don't see any genocide denial. It' just New Astri trying to combat like-farming posts. In fact, I agree with Astri. Like farming posts are not acceptable, even if for Ukraine.

Yes. Like farming by exploiting causes is bad both morally and for the cause. I remember when people would say "Reply to my post with #BlackLivesMatter!" What ended up happening was that the hashtag was filled with people replying to posts with that instead of information and news.

Yep. And nice to see you, Universe

[Socialist Ancomistan]

From communists? All of them just showed me how they don't like it, without feedback.

Alright, bud… now I'm starting to agree with other posters here. You aren't trying to condemn the Communist Bloc, you are trying to condemn the ideology, and with that I am strongly against… anyone can believe pretty much anything they want, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with believing in communism.

Based Orwell Society. This resolution is going in the garbage bin of history, just like the other cOmMuNiSt BlOc BaD resolutions. It's almost an annual tradition

[Socialist Ancomistan]

Federation of Eqaui deeply opposes this distasteful and poor attempt to oppress the ideology of common people. This draft, now submitted one, has no real basis and instead clearly is made in the light that is of the blatant despise for the leftist ideology and using the examples of purely dictatorial right-wing ideologies that only serve for the enriching the elite. Even if what said in the proposed resolution is of true nature they way its written, the way its formulated and the bias of the writer will only serve its downfall. We will continue to stand alongside out fellow comrades, our fellow socialist, anarchist and communist nations in battling this biased piece of so-called resolution. We also want to note that the brought accusations against the TCB are not in the resolution which only contributes to the fact that this resolution is not written in the faith of protecting people but eradicating a leftist region, as much toxic as it appears to be. If this resolution, however, is to be revised, unbiased and actually pointing out the core problem with the region then maybe we could support it. As it stands right now we cannot do that.

Equai here spitting out facts!

[New Astri]

"I recall the accusation stemming from a former R/O discouraging Black Book of Communism levels of exaggeration and misinformation" is a statement that is deeply ambiguous as far as answering the question I asked, which is whether has formulated a position related to Hołodomor denialism. It leaves the entire range of opinion open, except for the one contained in the Black Book of Communism (which I admit I haven't read).

If your assertion is correct that accusations of Hołodomor denialism are poorly-grounded, than it should be simple enough to answer my question.

My asking this question comes from a genuine personal strong feeling (if it helps to demonstrate this, I have spent the entirety of my near-decade on NS almost exclusively in a series of pan-Slavic regions), and I have not made any accusations. I even intentionally went to lengths to note that I have cooperated with TCB/PRAF on a number of missions (including the one in Japan this morning) in an effort to demonstrate that I have not been unwilling to work with TCB in the past. I am far from asking these questions in "passive-aggressive bad-faith", do not assume that is the case. Were I acting in bad faith I would never have asked TCB to clarify their position.

Pretty tired right now, but I'm going to do my best to respond before the thread moves on. When I said that that's where I recalled the accusation coming from, I meant that iirc it wasn't really based on a conversation explicitly about the Holodomor. The posts that I remember it being pulled from were on the more general subject of discouraging wild overestimates of "death tolls of communism." As for TCB's official position on the Holodomor, or really any hotly-debated political topic without one obvious answer? We don't have one. Individual government members' political beliefs don't necessarily align with everyone else's individual beliefs, and we don't force people to follow one specific viewpoint. The nature of being a pan-leftist region means that we all may disagree on some things, and we simply accept that rather than trying to establish an ever-shifting system of specifically accepted political views. The only rules are against rightwing ideology and bigotry.

Despite being the First Minister of TCB, I am ironically somewhat under-educated in some areas of leftist discussion, and so I raised the subject of the Holodomor in our real-life-politics channel to hear some other inputs. I wanted to make sure that what I thought was accurate/would not be putting my entire foot in my mouth to express publicly. The general consensus TCB's citizens (and one person from SLU--hi, SLU!) seemed to be that the Holodomor is still hotly contested among modern historians, and was a massive tragedy, but would be difficult to define as genocide. It also seemed to be general consensus that while neglect from the Soviet Union did exacerbate the famine, the famine itself was not intentionally created, did not have national or ethnic cleansing as a goal, and is often misinterpreted as intentional due to long-lasting effects of propaganda. I should stress here that those aren't my own attempts at political arguments, just a shot at objectively summarizing what a little sample size from TCB thought.

One member suggested these three resources as further reading/watching to support this belief:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kaaYvauNho
https://socialistmlmusings.wordpress.com/2017/02/15/stop-spreading-nazi-propaganda/
https://mltheory.wordpress.com/2014/06/07/facts-about-the-holodomor-and-why-its-fake/
I have not personally vetted every single tidbit of information, but I agreed with them on a cursory read. I would recommend them if you're interesting in hearing more of the reasoning behind this viewpoint. TCB takes things like genocide denial very seriously--if many well-educated members of the Bloc are proposing that a specific tragedy was not actually a genocide, then it's likely because there's some factual basis behind the idea, not because a buncha leftists have randomly decided to go down a conspiracy theory route. Anyway, I dunno, do your own research, check the sources out, use your critical thinking, see what you think.

Please have this pass through. It is known that New Astri is horribli cruel and tyrannic dictatortress. She transed my gender, burned my 1984 copy and whipped out a comically large spoon when i asked her to only have a spoonful of my grandma's homemade icecream. She must be stopped

You're welcome for the transed gender :) In my defense, your grandma's homemade ice cream was very good, and, uh, communism is when you share stuff with me. Or something. Also, for future reference, I use he/she/they alternating pronouns, and generally masculine titles (e.g TCB's Eternal and Fantastic Dictator instead of TCB's Eternal and Fantastic Dictatortress)

[Socialist Ancomistan]

I am in full support of anything that opposes the heinous activities of the Communist Bloc. Very based proposal; TCB must be stopped!

Even if the proposal has some aspect of logic, this thread is becoming kinda toxic, and the arguments in support for condemnation are weaksauce

[Raskana]

I am in full support of anything that opposes the heinous activities of the Communist Bloc. Very based proposal; TCB must be stopped!

Even if the proposal has some aspect of logic, this thread is becoming kinda toxic, and the arguments in support for condemnation are weaksauce

True, but the CB is still kinda scary, not that I want to ban it, I just avoid it.