NATION

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SC Rules discussion

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

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Subeth
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Mar 13, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Subeth » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:40 pm

This probably sounds silly, and may have been discussed before, but can a nation be condemned and commended?

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Wrapper
Senior Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 5799
Founded: Antiquity
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Wrapper » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:18 am

Yes.

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Paleocacher
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 456
Founded: Mar 13, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Paleocacher » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:41 pm

I tried to submit a condemnation for a nation but it says said nation doesn't exist.
The text of the condemnation:
While acknowledging that the acceptance of zombies and the choice to embrace them is a legitimate right that nations possess.

It should be frowned upon that some of the nations that choose to embrace zombies do so for the sole purpose of spreading the plague to cause death and destruction in other nations.

The nation named above assailed at least three regions:
The Brotherhuud, Asylum, and The Forgotten Realms leaving billions of innocent people turned to zombies in said nation's wake and posting taunting messages on RMBs such as this
"I must bid y'all adieu, I've got more regions to hit before the end of z-day. But I do have one tip before I leave, you may want to be careful placing passwords visible to residents."

This resolution hereby concludes that the actions the nation named above, Zatchbell548 undertook on Z-Day were threatening to international safety and warrant condemnation.

The nation: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=zatchbell548
_[' ]_
(-_Q) If you support Capitalism put this in your Signature
President Clark greets you and invites you to read his factbooks.
The Armed Republic has a large MT/PMT military based off of the current French and American militaries in organization and equipment.

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Sedgistan
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 27332
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Sedgistan » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:39 am

Paleocacher wrote:I tried to submit a condemnation for a nation but it says said nation doesn't exist.

Assuming you've entered the name correctly, then this would be a bug, not a rules matter. You'd need to post in Technical to report it.

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Paleocacher
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 456
Founded: Mar 13, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Paleocacher » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:02 am

Apparently this proposal violates rule 4 of the security council. How does it do this and how should I rectify it?
_[' ]_
(-_Q) If you support Capitalism put this in your Signature
President Clark greets you and invites you to read his factbooks.
The Armed Republic has a large MT/PMT military based off of the current French and American militaries in organization and equipment.

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Sedgistan
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 27332
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Sedgistan » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:54 am

Please could you start a new thread for your proposal, and include the text of it in there.

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Kaboomlandia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7289
Founded: May 22, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kaboomlandia » Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:32 am

This is for a draft that Europeia is working on right now:

How would one reference a GCR while keeping it R4-legal?
In=character, Kaboomlandia is a World Assembly member and abides by its resolutions. If this nation isn't in the WA, it's for practical reasons.
Author of GA #371 and SC #208, #214, #226, #227, #230, #232
Co-Author of SC #204
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

"Your legitimacy, Kaboom, has melted away in my eyes. I couldn't have believed that only a shadow of your once brilliant WA career remains."

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Crazy girl
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Posts: 4664
Founded: Antiquity
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Crazy girl » Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:39 am

If you mean a feeder or a sinker, you can use the relevant one of those words.

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Kaboomlandia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7289
Founded: May 22, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kaboomlandia » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:47 pm

Crazy girl wrote:If you mean a feeder or a sinker, you can use the relevant one of those words.

Okay. I believe feeder would work.
In=character, Kaboomlandia is a World Assembly member and abides by its resolutions. If this nation isn't in the WA, it's for practical reasons.
Author of GA #371 and SC #208, #214, #226, #227, #230, #232
Co-Author of SC #204
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

"Your legitimacy, Kaboom, has melted away in my eyes. I couldn't have believed that only a shadow of your once brilliant WA career remains."

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5553
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:13 am

Crazy girl wrote:If you mean a feeder or a sinker, you can use the relevant one of those words.


Odd question: I wonder if you could use the abbreviation, GCRs, without identifying its full meaning? Especially if I wasn't overused in the resolution, but rather a side mention.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Sedgistan
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 27332
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Sedgistan » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:57 pm

Afraid not - the same way you couldn't use "GPer" even though that doesn't say "game".

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Phydios
Minister
 
Posts: 2165
Founded: Dec 06, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Phydios » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:12 pm

Sedgistan wrote:Afraid not - the same way you couldn't use "GPer" even though that doesn't say "game".

Out of curiosity, would it be legal to state an in-character definition of "GCR" in a resolution and then use the term? Or is this one of those "context required" questions?
Romans 1:18-2:29, Ephesians 2:1-10
But God’s angry displeasure erupts as acts of human mistrust and wrongdoing and lying accumulate, as people try to put a shroud over truth. But the basic reality of God is plain enough. Open your eyes and there it is! | Those people are on a dark spiral downward. But if you think that leaves you on the high ground where you can point your finger at others, think again. Every time you criticize someone, you condemn yourself. | It’s a wonder God didn’t lose His temper and do away with the whole lot of us. Instead, immense in mercy and with an incredible love, He embraced us. He took our sin-dead lives and made us alive in Christ. He did all this on His own, with no help from us!

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Sygian II
Diplomat
 
Posts: 534
Founded: Jun 14, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Sygian II » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:17 pm

Phydios wrote:
Sedgistan wrote:Afraid not - the same way you couldn't use "GPer" even though that doesn't say "game".

Out of curiosity, would it be legal to state an in-character definition of "GCR" in a resolution and then use the term? Or is this one of those "context required" questions?

I would refrain from that if I were you. Sticking to feeder or sinker would be a legal variation of the same thing.
Benevolent Thomas wrote:The Black Hawks continue to be the largest and most successful invader organization in NationStates


Maj. Sygian

Council Advisor of The Black Hawks

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5553
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:56 am

Sedgistan wrote:Afraid not - the same way you couldn't use "GPer" even though that doesn't say "game".


I would hope "GPer" would be banned for purely aesthetic reasons if nothing else. :lol2:
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5553
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:50 am

*rings a bell for Sedgistan or Crazygirl* :twisted:

Err, question. Why do we ban WA working groups in the SC anyways? It stems from an old Ard ruling from 2009 but it remained on the books as "Co-authors must be nations, not regions/organisations."

The convention, a vague mutation of Rule II, basically prevents WA working groups to submit resolutions and be recognized as co-authors. Given we're the house that's more involved with gameplaying, I would think it would make sense that we would accommodate regions trying to raise interest in drafting for the SC.

You're both familiar with the practice, but to sum it up: WA working groups work on resolutions as a region and presumably would submit resolutions as a regional group or be recognized for its co-authorship. In theory, I could also see organizations like the UDL or a future organization submitting liberations officially rather than its drafters using their personal and less identifiable accounts.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Sedgistan
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 27332
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Sedgistan » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:47 pm

It's fine. If it's a nation, the nation contributed, and it's happy to be listed as a co-author, you can cite it. We don't have a problem with "working groups" nations being cited.

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Kaboomlandia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7289
Founded: May 22, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kaboomlandia » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:10 pm

Sedgistan wrote:It's fine. If it's a nation, the nation contributed, and it's happy to be listed as a co-author, you can cite it. We don't have a problem with "working groups" nations being cited.

So would using Europeian WA Headquarters to recognize a group-draft effort be legal in the SC?

Asking for a group-draft we're about to start in on.
In=character, Kaboomlandia is a World Assembly member and abides by its resolutions. If this nation isn't in the WA, it's for practical reasons.
Author of GA #371 and SC #208, #214, #226, #227, #230, #232
Co-Author of SC #204
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

"Your legitimacy, Kaboom, has melted away in my eyes. I couldn't have believed that only a shadow of your once brilliant WA career remains."

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5553
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:13 pm

Sedgistan wrote:It's fine. If it's a nation, the nation contributed, and it's happy to be listed as a co-author, you can cite it. We don't have a problem with "working groups" nations being cited.


Huzzah, I was wondering because it seemed to be a bit of a departure from the rest of the SC ruleset.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Sedgistan
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 27332
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Sedgistan » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:11 pm

Kaboomlandia wrote:
Sedgistan wrote:It's fine. If it's a nation, the nation contributed, and it's happy to be listed as a co-author, you can cite it. We don't have a problem with "working groups" nations being cited.

So would using Europeian WA Headquarters to recognize a group-draft effort be legal in the SC?

Asking for a group-draft we're about to start in on.

Yes, you're crediting the nation - that's not a problem. We accept that "working groups" can have contributed sufficiently to a proposal to warrant mention. These will generally be cases where several individuals within a group have worked on a proposal - the individuals who make up the group may not have done enough to each be credited as a co-author, but together as a group it could be justified.

To list a co-author, it still has to be an actual nation. You can't list a region or organisation as a co-author, because then they'll be used for "name checking" or listing supporters, rather than crediting those who have actually contributed to a proposal.

It is expected that (as with regular co-authors) if you're crediting a working group nation, that the people behind the working group have actually contributed enough to justify being co-authors. If proposals start listing "The Rejected Realms WA Mission, The North Pacific Working Group, Another Big Delegate Authors Group" and so on, to sneak in "shout outs" to supporters, then we'll have to reconsider. I'm optimistic that won't happen though.

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5553
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:06 pm

Ah, that distinction makes sense. Would you care to clarify that in the ruleset, Sedge?
Last edited by Unibot III on Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Sedgistan
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 27332
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Sedgistan » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:14 am

I'd linked my first post from the Compendium as soon as it was made - I was waiting for the discussion to conclude before adding any more. I think I've probably said all that can be said on the topic, so I'll add any more links that are needed now.

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5553
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:47 pm

Sedgistan wrote:I'd linked my first post from the Compendium as soon as it was made - I was waiting for the discussion to conclude before adding any more. I think I've probably said all that can be said on the topic, so I'll add any more links that are needed now.


Cheers.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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Kaboomlandia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7289
Founded: May 22, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kaboomlandia » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:33 pm

Here there, just wondering if I can pick someone's brain on a legality issue for something I'm drafting.

Is the phrase "automated telegramming systems" R4-compliant, and if not, what would be a phrasing to make it legal?
In=character, Kaboomlandia is a World Assembly member and abides by its resolutions. If this nation isn't in the WA, it's for practical reasons.
Author of GA #371 and SC #208, #214, #226, #227, #230, #232
Co-Author of SC #204
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

"Your legitimacy, Kaboom, has melted away in my eyes. I couldn't have believed that only a shadow of your once brilliant WA career remains."

User avatar
Sedgistan
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 27332
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Sedgistan » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:09 pm

It doesn't sound R4 compliant to me - it's too much of a reference to NS being an online game. It's easier to advise how better to phrase it if you can write the clause you'd like to use.

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Kaboomlandia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7289
Founded: May 22, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kaboomlandia » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:20 pm

No worries, I think we managed to figure it out. Thanks anyway!
In=character, Kaboomlandia is a World Assembly member and abides by its resolutions. If this nation isn't in the WA, it's for practical reasons.
Author of GA #371 and SC #208, #214, #226, #227, #230, #232
Co-Author of SC #204
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

"Your legitimacy, Kaboom, has melted away in my eyes. I couldn't have believed that only a shadow of your once brilliant WA career remains."

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