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Wrapper
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Wrapper » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:12 pm

And yet, this is a World Assembly.

As always, it depends on context. For example, in the Siwale commendation that's been proposed, it's legal: "Recognizing the immense contributions Siwale has made to the world of NationStates." On the other hand, starting a proposal with "To the World Assembly" would be illegal.
Last edited by Wrapper on Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lord Dominator
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Lord Dominator » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:17 pm

Wrapper wrote:And yet, this is a World Assembly.

As always, it depends on context. For example, in the Siwale commendation that's been proposed, it's legal: "Recognizing the immense contributions Siwale has made to the world of NationStates." On the other hand, starting a proposal with "To the World Assembly" would be illegal.

Wouldn't that be more of a violation for not speaking from the perspective of the WA?
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Wrapper
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Wrapper » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:19 pm

The latter, yes, the former, no.

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Unibot III
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:18 am

Wrapper wrote:On the other hand, starting a proposal with "To the World Assembly" would be illegal.


That’s a very strict interpretation of 4.D, no? I mean there’s a lot of variety in practice in the introduction clause, “to the WA,” or “The WA,” or Assembled Nations of the World (if you’re SP.)

For instance, you could interpret the “to the WA” as meaning “It is the opinion of the WA,” like “To me,” means “In my opinion.”

Or “To the World Assembly,” could be the WA addressing the future WA - since resolutions are written for, and enforced upon posterity.

In the event of reasonable ambiguity present, the generous interpretation - as far as Rule IV is concerned - is usually held valid.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wrapper
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Wrapper » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:27 am

Unibot III wrote:
Wrapper wrote:On the other hand, starting a proposal with "To the World Assembly" would be illegal.


That’s a very strict interpretation of 4.D, no? I mean there’s a lot of variety in practice in the introduction clause, “to the WA,” or “The WA,” or Assembled Nations of the World (if you’re SP.)

How can a proposal be from the point of view of the WA if it's addressed to the WA?

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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:30 pm

Wrapper wrote:
Unibot III wrote:
That’s a very strict interpretation of 4.D, no? I mean there’s a lot of variety in practice in the introduction clause, “to the WA,” or “The WA,” or Assembled Nations of the World (if you’re SP.)

How can a proposal be from the point of view of the WA if it's addressed to the WA?


Sorry, I had more to say in a subsequent draft of that post. >_<
Last edited by Unibot III on Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

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Unibot III
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:51 pm

Wrapper wrote:Forum and dispatch links are not allowed. Only links that are legal are the nation and region tags, and links to previous GA or SC resolutions, including repealed resolutions.


I'd just like to raise issue with this rules interpretation - not so much an issue so much as a request to reconsider it. Wrapper is completely right, of course, for years links have been found illegal except in cases where [nation], [region] tags or links to proposals. I do feel though this is a case where a narrow ruling has snowballed into a full-fledged, separate rule that lacks a justification. The basis of the GA ruleset reforms was culling rules that were on the books for reasons that had developed over time and the reasons had been forgotten, made irrelevant, deprecated etc.

Sedge ruled against links in resolutions at a time when you couldn't make internal links in NationStates, people were putting written urls in resolution text which was a blatant violation of Rule IV because having a url written down breaks the fourth wall obviously. Regional and national tags were never deemed a violation of R4; in fact they were encouraged because they assisted a text's readability and accessibility.

We know there are cases where clauses are written in ambiguous language to clear R4, links to dispatches and forum threads could be helpful in informing readers as to what the author is actually attempting to refer to. I don't believe that the existing link rule has any relevance to Rule I, Rule II, Rule III, or Rule IV, given links are not deemed to break the 4th Wall in other "kinds" of links. We have a case here were the actual rule is as holey as swiss cheese - it doesn't apply to WA links or Nation links or Regional Links, only other internal links.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

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Bears Armed
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:01 am

Unibot III wrote:
Wrapper wrote:Forum and dispatch links are not allowed. Only links that are legal are the nation and region tags, and links to previous GA or SC resolutions, including repealed resolutions.


I'd just like to raise issue with this rules interpretation - not so much an issue so much as a request to reconsider it. Wrapper is completely right, of course, for years links have been found illegal except in cases where [nation], [region] tags or links to proposals. I do feel though this is a case where a narrow ruling has snowballed into a full-fledged, separate rule that lacks a justification.

Forum links could become useless gibberish in the event of another change of forums. Imagine if links to Jolt had been allowed...
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Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
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Lord Dominator
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Lord Dominator » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:12 am

And Dispatches are far more easily deletable than forum posts are
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Unibot III
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Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:52 pm

Bears Armed wrote:
Unibot III wrote:
I'd just like to raise issue with this rules interpretation - not so much an issue so much as a request to reconsider it. Wrapper is completely right, of course, for years links have been found illegal except in cases where [nation], [region] tags or links to proposals. I do feel though this is a case where a narrow ruling has snowballed into a full-fledged, separate rule that lacks a justification.

Forum links could become useless gibberish in the event of another change of forums. Imagine if links to Jolt had been allowed...


We already do introduce links to text without any guarantee that they will remain valid links though. For instance, resolutions refer to nations and regions that can CTE or be refounded by entirely new players with a new agenda and reputation. Some resolutions from 2009 have upwards of fifteen dead links each - it happens, time sweeps away things.

Links do not change the semantical meaning of the text, whether it is a valid link or not shouldn't be the biggest concern here, since the links just serve a supplementary role to help inform the reader - that this supplementary nature may not continue indefinitely is not a major risk to the overall validity of resolutions in the long term.

Links help inform readers in the here and now, especially when Rule IV tends to contort the overall readability of clauses without supplementary guidance. One of the challenges of Rule IV has always been that the main motivation behind the rules change was to ensure resolutions were accessible texts to non-gameplayers unfamiliar with gameplay jargon, but the result of eschewing jargon is resolution texts can become almost unintelligible without assistance because the alternative to game jargon is often more unclear and evasive than the initial jargon!

We already use nation/region links to guide the reader through the text where the meaning may be unclear, forum and dispatch links would great assist in readability and linking resolution text to tangible evidence.
Last edited by Unibot III on Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
Org. Join Date: 25/05/2008 | Former Delegate of The Rejected Realms | Gameplay Alignment: -18 / -13
Unibotian Factbook // An Analysis of NationStates Generations // The Gameplay Alignment Test // NS Weather // How do I join the UDL? // The Transpacific Trade
Paradise Found // The Unibotian Life Expectancy Index // Proudly Authored 9 GA Res., 14 SC Res. // Commended by SC#78 // The Polysemes of Nativeness;

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
✯ Duty is Eternal, Justice is Imminent: UDL

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