[PASSED] Commend Andusre

[Xernon]

I initially hesitated in posting here in fear of being labeled as biased. The nominee is someone that I consider to be my closest friend on this site. Having said that, it's because I've gotten to know the nominee so well and because I have worked with them hand in hand for almost four years now, I can genuinely and confidently say that Andusre is more than deserving of this recognition. His passion for sustainable community building and development, his dedication to establishing inter-regional cooperation with regions across the NSGP spectrum, and his work in building what has become one of NationState's most active and consistent R/D forces ought to be recognized in addition to all the other points brought up in Maowi's proposal. Needless to say, I wholeheartedly support this proposal and I hope you will too.

[Fachumonn]

When it lists the 10000 islands in parentheses, (or at all) it should be (XKI) instead of (10KI). Other than that full support, as expressed by Xernon.

[Hulldom]

When it lists the 10000 islands in parentheses, (or at all) it should be (XKI) instead of (10KI). Other than that full support, as expressed by Xernon.

Both are acceptable. Maowi, like myself, is an experienced author and she certainly knows how she should abbreviate things.

[Fachumonn]

When it lists the 10000 islands in parentheses, (or at all) it should be (XKI) instead of (10KI). Other than that full support, as expressed by Xernon.

Both are acceptable. Maowi, like myself, is an experienced author and she certainly knows how she should abbreviate things.

Sure but 10KI sounds weird. XKI rolls of the tongue more imo.

[Apatosaurus]

Both are acceptable. Maowi, like myself, is an experienced author and she certainly knows how she should abbreviate things.

Sure but 10KI sounds weird. XKI rolls of the tongue more imo.

XKI indeed is preferred over 10KI, so it's probably best to use XKI unless there's a specific reason that 10KI is being used.

[Free Algerstonia]

I believe XKI is better than 10KI, not only because it looks better but because it makes the resolution shorter.

that often raid right-wing regions

Opposed as long as this remains, raiding right-wing regions is not commendable and this reads as nothing more than an out-of-character jab against right-wing politics.

[Quebecshire]

I believe XKI is better than 10KI, not only because it looks better but because it makes the resolution shorter.

that often raid right-wing regions

Opposed as long as this remains, raiding right-wing regions is not commendable and this reads as nothing more than an out-of-character jab against right-wing politics.

If you actually read the proposal, you would know it's not commending Andy (or anyone) for raiding right-wing region. It is noting that Andy has made significant diplomatic and military treaties with regions across the military spectrum (as stated) including TCB, which is one of the regions listed, whose military primarily engages in raiding right-wing regions. That TCB does this is an objective fact, not a jab.

You're grasping at straws here if that's your reason for opposing. The snip you quoted isn't even directly about Andy.

[Free Algerstonia]

I believe XKI is better than 10KI, not only because it looks better but because it makes the resolution shorter.

Opposed as long as this remains, raiding right-wing regions is not commendable and this reads as nothing more than an out-of-character jab against right-wing politics.

If you actually read the proposal, you would know it's not commending Andy (or anyone) for raiding right-wing region. It is noting that Andy has made significant diplomatic and military treaties with regions across the military spectrum (as stated) including TCB, which is one of the regions listed, whose military primarily engages in raiding right-wing regions. That TCB does this is an objective fact, not a jab.

You're grasping at straws here if that's your reason for opposing. The snip you quoted isn't even directly about Andy.

Ah whoops, my fault. I misread that part. Ignore that previous message Maowi.

[Maowi]

I have updated the OP with the newest draft. I shortened the SC authorship clause since I thought it was not worth causing issues over it, and it freed me up some characters to make other changes! Specifically, I expanded on the clause about Andy's term as President which hopefully makes it clearer what his role was; I also updated the military clause and added in a reference to Andy's leading of collaborative military operations. I've replaced "10KI" with "XKI" - I don't have a particular preference and if people find "10KI" a little jarring then I've no problem with switching it round.

Thanks for the feedback so far and I appreciate any more suggestions people have!

[Maowi]

Bump :)

[Mancheseva City]

Full support! I think this is looking great as it is, and does Andy justice

[Thousand Branches]

Finally getting around to editing this one.

Convinced that Andusre has acted as a force for positive change in NationStates, primarily via their indispensable work to create, develop, and grow Thaecia into a lively community and interregional presence;

“Acted as” —> “been”

Add an adjective before “force”, maybe “constant” or something to that effect.

“, primarily via their indispensable work to create, develop, and grow Thaecia into a lively community and interregional presence;” can be changed to “via the extensive work they’ve put into creating, developing, and fostering the lively community and interregional presence of Thaecia;”

Praising Andusre’s co-founding of Thaecia in January 2019 - they established a thriving population with a unique regional identity characterised by its sophisticated executive government, bicameral legislature, and highly social atmosphere; Andusre’s focus on community has allowed Thaecia to sustain a flourishing political scene with activity levels that support its robust, vibrant democracy;

That first dash could probably be “where” to not split the sentence weirdly.

The second half of the clause also feels almost redundant tbh. Like you said everything you say after the semicolon before it too so idk why that’s included.

Celebrating Andusre’s authorship of Thaecia’s first ever Legislative Resolution, devising the body known as the Electoral Commission (EC) to run regional elections; despite the resolution’s later repeal, the EC has played an integral part in Thaecian politics ever since and brought a great sense of excitement to every election - its foundations remain essentially unchanged;

“the EC has played an integral part in Thaecian politics ever since” —> “the EC still plays an integral role in Thaecian politics”

Everything after the dash is wholly unnecessary.

Applauding Andusre’s two terms as the region’s first Prime Minister, during which they paved the way for all future administrations by:

“Adminsitrations” is an odd word but I suppose it works. Wouldn’t it be setting an example for future leaders/PMs tho?

creating and solidifying the ministerial structures that underpin Thaecia’s executive to this day;

What does this even mean? What are “ministerial structures”? Isn’t an executive a person? I don’t get this at all.

organising regular cultural activities, such as contests and game nights, that strengthened Thaecia’s community and attracted foreign nations to participate and become part of that community;

Everything after “game nights” is incredibly clunky and very weirdly organized. Perhaps: “that strengthened the charisma and outreach of the community, even attracting several foreign nations to the region in the process;”

making a concerted effort to cultivate activity on Thaecia’s Regional Message Board (RMB) - official legislative and judicial business is conducted on satellite regions’ RMBs, making this a crucial aspect of Thaecian society;

“making a concerted effort” implies failure to actually achieve anything. Everything after the dash is confusing and kind of unnecessary. If anything, focus more on why rmb participation matters or what it has actually done for Thaecia.

Recognising that Andusre has become synonymous with Thaecia’s foreign affairs, as their personal and effective style of diplomacy forged strong bonds between Thaecia and a wide range of regions, socially bringing communities together in very real terms - during four months as the region’s Foreign Affairs Minister, Andusre negotiated the construction of embassies with 10000 Islands (XKI) and The Rejected Realms (TRR), both of which remain very close to Thaecia;

This is jumbled and far longer than necessary. Rewrite:

“Recognising that Andusre has become synonymous with Thaecia’s foreign affairs, their personal and effective style of diplomacy forging strong bonds between Thaecia and a wide range of regions and communities including 10000 Islands (XKI) and The Rejected Realms (TRR), both of which remain very close to Thaecia;”

Mentions of their position are unnecessary if you also say what they did in it and I cut out all the unnecessary language.

Admiring Andusre’s further efforts to promote goodwill between Thaecia and regions such as XKI and TRR by running a musical watch party event in 2021 that drew high attendance from all three regions and is set to be repeated this year, and by organising the foreign affairs side of Thaecia’s similarly successful Late Nite Festival II, which also brought in participants from several other regions;

Already mentioned XKI and TRR in the last clause. If you’re gonna mention them again, kill the “such as” and reorganize that bit again. You could also just do a more general “allies” sort of thing, the name-dropping isn’t all that necessary.

This clause in general is organized incorrectly (and confusingly) so another rewrite:

“Admiring Andusre’s further promotion of goodwill between Thaecia, XKI, and TRR through the organization of a musical watch party event in 2021 that drew high attendance from all three regions and is set to be repeated this year; they also organized the foreign affairs side of Thaecia’s similarly successful Late Nite Festival II, which brought in dozens of foreign participants from several other regions;”

Impressed by Andusre’s key role in drafting or negotiating all of Thaecia’s current treaties, i.e. those with The East Pacific (TEP), Europeia, The League, Balder, and The Communist Bloc (TCB), through their many terms as a Senior Diplomat, spreading harmony throughout the multiverse;

Goddamn I did not realize how many FA clauses there were until now. Why is this a separate clause than the recognizing clause? There’s no need to mention the positions, so at best this should be a list with the events of “things Andy has done FA-wise”. Otherwise the organization is repetitive and very odd.

Acclaiming Andusre’s influential part in building Thaecia’s military from the ground up, elevating it to become one of NationStates’ largest forces during six months as Secretary of Defense; they developed and articulated the region’s military ideology, bringing awareness to the prosperity that an unaligned military can bring to a region both by fostering internal activity and as a crucial means of strengthening ties with regions all over the military spectrum - for example, Thaecia has often collaborated with independent regions like TEP, Europeia, and TCB, defender regions like XKI and the League, and raider regions like Lone Wolves United;

This is an insanely long clause, rewrite:

“Acclaiming Andusre’s influence in the construction of Thaecia’s military, elevating it to become one of NationStates’ largest forces through the development and articulation of Thaecia’s military ideology, bringing awareness to the prosperity that an unaligned military can bring to a region both by fostering internal activity and as a crucial means of strengthening ties with influential regions all over the military spectrum;”

Again, you’re getting very bogged down in both naming positions instead of acknowledging actions, and in name-dropping just a bit too much. You can just write “influential regions” to be considerably more concise.

Further appreciating Andusre’s contributions to the vigour of NationStates’ military scene through their frequent spearheading of joint operations with Thaecia’s allies, including antifascist activities and highly-attended tag runs;

“tag runs” is a bad way to word that, might find a slightly more IC way of articulating it.

Rejoicing that Andusre championed Thaecian participation in the World Assembly, supporting new authors and advocating for the relevance of WA affairs, culminating in their election as President in November 2021; in this role,

Not a fan of this one. Gonna do a rewrite for purely organizational reworks:

“Revelling in the considerable growth Andusre has fostered in regional World Assembly participation, supporting new Thaecian authors and promoting WA relevancy; their work in the World Assembly culminated in their role as president, where:”

their dedication and reforms to the region’s WA program caused its activity to skyrocket and has increased literacy in and awareness of the WA among Thaecians;

Small organizational rewrite:

“they dedicated themselves to reforming the region’s WA program, causing its activity to skyrocket and heavily increasing WA literacy and awareness among Thaecians;”

they were a key advisor to the Prime Minister on executive policy as well as acting as Commander in Chief of Thaecia’s military, making important calls on military operations;

“were a” —> “acted as”

“as well as acting as” —> “and served as”

Appreciative of Andusre’s efforts as an author of four Security Council resolutions, such as [resolution=SC#349]SC 349: Commend Marrabuk[/resolution] in which they highlighted the legacy of a key figure in The East Pacific’s internal and foreign affairs;

“such as” —> “including”

Comma after the resolution.

Wishing to enshrine a record of Andusre’s impact on NationStates in the history books, as a shining example for future trailblazers to draw inspiration from;

Delete the comma after books.

That should be all! Have a great day,

-A

[Maowi]

Thank you very much for taking the time to go through it all in that detail! I've put your suggestions in almost entirely - there were just a few things I wanted to ask you about.

Applauding Andusre’s two terms as the region’s first Prime Minister, during which they paved the way for all future administrations by:

“Adminsitrations” is an odd word but I suppose it works. Wouldn’t it be setting an example for future leaders/PMs tho?

I've often heard the word "administration" used to refer to the group of people responsible for running a government, which is the meaning I was going for here, but I'm happy to change that if it's unclear.

creating and solidifying the ministerial structures that underpin Thaecia’s executive to this day;

What does this even mean? What are “ministerial structures”? Isn’t an executive a person? I don’t get this at all.

I see what you mean about "ministerial structures" being a vague term and I need to think about how to reword that. It is supposed to refer to the way things are organised within the executive branch, i.e. the choice of ministries that exist and the way responsibilities are distributed between them. I don't think the term "executive" necessarily refers to a person - it can also mean “the branch of a government responsible for putting decisions or laws into effect” (according to the internet).

making a concerted effort to cultivate activity on Thaecia’s Regional Message Board (RMB) - official legislative and judicial business is conducted on satellite regions’ RMBs, making this a crucial aspect of Thaecian society;

“making a concerted effort” implies failure to actually achieve anything. Everything after the dash is confusing and kind of unnecessary. If anything, focus more on why rmb participation matters or what it has actually done for Thaecia.

I have attempted to rephrase this clause, but also the stuff about the legislature & judiciary operating on satellite regions' RMBs was intended to demonstrate why RMB participation matters in Thaecia - gameside activity is necessary for the regional population to be aware of what's going on in the legislature and the judiciary. I hope this version is a bit of an improvement but I'm definitely open to rewording it more drastically if it is still unclear.

Goddamn I did not realize how many FA clauses there were until now. Why is this a separate clause than the recognizing clause? There’s no need to mention the positions, so at best this should be a list with the events of “things Andy has done FA-wise”. Otherwise the organization is repetitive and very odd.

I very much take your point that organising the clauses thematically works better than organising them by position held, so I have done a restructure which hopefully works better now. I disagree slightly that mentioning positions is entirely unnecessary, as to me there's a difference between doing something as an individual vs in an official capacity where you have a lot of responsibility and you have to be a leader at the same time, so I haven't completely cut the mentions of the positions Andy's held.

Further appreciating Andusre’s contributions to the vigour of NationStates’ military scene through their frequent spearheading of joint operations with Thaecia’s allies, including antifascist activities and highly-attended tag runs;

“tag runs” is a bad way to word that, might find a slightly more IC way of articulating it.

I'm not particularly clued in on military gameplay, but I can't really see why "tag runs" is a particularly OOC term? I have tried to think of a less direct way of getting at it but I can't think of anything that is at all concise, and I don't want to spend half the clause describing tag runs when that's not its main point :p

That should be all! Have a great day,

-A

Aw I hope you have a great day too!

[Maowi]

Bump! I've made some more very minor wording tweaks to hopefully improve clarity.

[Honeydewistania]

I'd remove the mention of the treaty with TCB, considering Thaecia's embassies with them are being destroyed atm lol

Also: perhaps list an example of an operation Thaecia's army or Andusre participated in?

[Maowi]

I'd remove the mention of the treaty with TCB, considering Thaecia's embassies with them are being destroyed atm lol

Also: perhaps list an example of an operation Thaecia's army or Andusre participated in?

Both very good points, I have attempted to address them :)

[Alistia]

Very well written proposal, but I'm not sure if I am convinced if co-founding, or even founding, a region, and then putting a lot of time and effort into making that region great and noticeable on the international scene is worth a commendation, in and of itself.

Its very nice that they cultivated great culture as PM, Spearheaded Foreign Policy & the Military, fostered WA participation, etc, but I am of the view that most of these things, even if done with excellent regard and diligence, are things that any founder, regional officer, or just regional citizen, should do to better their region, and would do if they had the ability (time, knowledge, resources/mentoring). I know that Thaecia has become a very notable region, but again, I just am not sure that the sole act creating and building the community of a region, even one that has come to fame, is worth a commendation, even considering that they have also authored four SC resolutions (and the SC itself is a political tool).

I'm not familiar with the occupation of England, but I do know that the Thaempirial Army is 'independent' - i.e what type of operations they engage in, and the regions that are targeted, are based on whatever furthers their regional power and influence. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, just stating it to be how things are, to my knowledge. This proposal specifically mentions Andusre's military endeavors as a reason as to which they should be commended, but as it is known, and explicitly said in this proposal, that this military does raid & do tags (though not exclusively ofc), so I don't think these actions should be commended. If their endeavors were mentioned with a list of regions/communities that were helped by this said military I would likely feel differently, be we would essentially be praising Andusre for creating a military which has harmed regions and their communities.

All in all, it seems to me that they helped build a region, and have dedicated the last couple of years to bettering their region/community, and have written a few SC resolutions. Again, I think all the feats here are very impressive, and have obviously much benefitted Thaecia, but I think a commendation should be given out for more then just building a community and establishing embassies with GCR's.

I would like to hear any responses to this.
And I can be swayed, I consider myself neutral to this proposal.
This post just describes my initial feelings on the matter.

[Maowi]

Hi there, and thanks for taking the time to explain your position/perspective on this!

Very well written proposal, but I'm not sure if I am convinced if co-founding, or even founding, a region, and then putting a lot of time and effort into making that region great and noticeable on the international scene is worth a commendation, in and of itself.

Its very nice that they cultivated great culture as PM, Spearheaded Foreign Policy & the Military, fostered WA participation, etc, but I am of the view that most of these things, even if done with excellent regard and diligence, are things that any founder, regional officer, or just regional citizen, should do to better their region, and would do if they had the ability (time, knowledge, resources/mentoring). I know that Thaecia has become a very notable region, but again, I just am not sure that the sole act creating and building the community of a region, even one that has come to fame, is worth a commendation, even considering that they have also authored four SC resolutions (and the SC itself is a political tool).

I think I can sort of see where you're coming from here, and if the proposal isn't as persuasive as it should be then that's on me and it isn't the right proposal to commend Andy. I have tried to convey within the proposal how his work in building Thaecia up has been exceptional; the culture apparatus, foreign affairs network, military infrastructure, and community he has developed have all had tremendous interregional impact. To me that's absolutely commendable. It's not just about establishing embassies with GCRs, as you put it - it's that Andy has managed to create truly meaningful partnerships between Thaecia and an incredible variety of regions, which is a fairly unique feat as far as I'm aware. The way these relationships have translated into cultural events and the military playing field has brought a lot of vitality into interregional gameplay.

Also, it's worth noting that unless I'm much mistaken there's plenty of precedent in the SC for commending people based on outstanding contributions to individual regions. Whether that should affect your thinking on the matter is of course a different question :)

I'm not familiar with the occupation of England, but I do know that the Thaempirial Army is 'independent' - i.e what type of operations they engage in, and the regions that are targeted, are based on whatever furthers their regional power and influence. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, just stating it to be how things are, to my knowledge. This proposal specifically mentions Andusre's military endeavors as a reason as to which they should be commended, but as it is known, and explicitly said in this proposal, that this military does raid & do tags (though not exclusively ofc), so I don't think these actions should be commended. If their endeavors were mentioned with a list of regions/communities that were helped by this said military I would likely feel differently, be we would essentially be praising Andusre for creating a military which has harmed regions and their communities.

One thing I really wanted to highlight in this proposal is Andy's contribution to strengthening the independent/unaligned military scene. I don't personally take part in military gameplay, but my strong impression - based on operation reports and just generally interacting with people who ARE involved - is that military gameplay, both raiding and defending, is a lot more vibrant and lively for Andy's presence in it. I didn't intend it as some sort of statement on the morality of different ways of engaging in R/D, just as an illustration of the way that Andy has impacted gameplay.

I hope that goes some way to at least clarifying the intention behind this proposal!

[Zukchiva]

I would like to hear any responses to this.
And I can be swayed, I consider myself neutral to this proposal.
This post just describes my initial feelings on the matter.

In my eyes, a Founder indeed should do all that Andy did in Thaecia. But the vast majority do not. It's similar when you look at a lot of positions - President or equivalent, leader of a military, minister of FA, etc. A lot of C/Cs tend to commend what, realistically, we'd expect people to do in such positions but never usually happens. Basically to say, I don't think commending a Founder for building a region to a level most do not is any different from commending an MoFA/President for signing some notable treaties which most leaders never do or commending a military leader for building up a successful military when most such leaders flunk.

At least, that's personally why I'm leaning towards supporting this at the moment. Plus I think in general the SC should recognize more region builders, and the fact Thaecia is so notable is a strong testament to the work Andy put into it (not to diminish the man-hours multiple other Thaecians have done and continue to do, ofc).

So thinking on it, I can understand why one would be neutral or against this, but personally I think a Founder who helped build an excellent region is commendable material. Plus, we partially did that with Commend HEM and Commend NewTexas; this is a more fuller manifestation of previous SC thought on this subject I'd say.

[Alistia]

Approved.

[Maowi]

Approved.

Much appreciated :)

[Fachumonn]

This proposal has been approved.

[Maowi]

I've withdrawn this proposal for now as I want to modify some language based on feedback I've had throughout the submission process from various groups of people. I'll post an updated draft as soon as I've worked out some changes!

[Maowi]

A new draft is up!

[Tinhampton]

What's the difference between this and Draft 4? (sorry - superbusy right now)