[PASSED] Commend Tim-Opolis

[Wascoitan]

opposed on principle and will be pushing for such a vote in TCB, tim has by far been the most unrepentantly toxic and shitty people I have interacted with in NSGP. no matter how much he might have done to deserve a badge I will always be opposed to this because of his behavior alone

I'm curious, what is the source of your antipathy towards Tim? I know what Yuno and Syl's deals are but what's your particular brand of Tim hate?

if you're asking for a specific event that made me dislike him, then I can't really remember one in particular. I just generally find him to be insufferable and pretty much always have since I originally got involved in NSGP.

[Goobergunchia]

Some new changes: After consulting with The Salaxalans, I have decided to remove some of the Spiritus government (not founder) stuff in favor of including the Potato Alliance and Tim's role in it. That also brings us closer to the character limit, now only having 5164 total characters (meaning we only need to slim down 164).

I disagree with this. As currently written that clause now just seems kind of a random insert.

In general I think this draft suffers from lack of focus. I'd focus much more on the region-building and defending and drop some of the other stuff. Also the internal periods in paragraphs ended by commas need to go.

A couple of additional nitpicks:

Inspired by Tim-Opolis’ work in Spiritus that created an durable community where the region has continued to thrive in both activity and community since their withdrawal from the region’s day to day governing affairs, a rarity among founded regions,

Honoring Tim-Opolis’ tenure as First Warden from July 2020 until November 2021, wherein Tim tirelessly pursued and integrated new talent, leading to a net gain of 22 Wardens and thus reforming TGW into one of the most active militaries of the time. Under Tim’s leadership, TGW continually broke its own operation records, ultimately culminating with 42 Wardens participating in the November 2021 liberation of Trovons. Throughout his tenure, Tim tirelessly called fellow Wardens of all eras to battle, optimizing the organization’s turnout,

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

I spy an R2(b) illegality.

Honoring Tim-Opolis’ tenure as First Warden from July 2020 until November 2021, wherein Tim tirelessly pursued and integrated new talent, leading to a net gain of 22 Wardens and thus reforming TGW into one of the most active militaries of the time. Under Tim’s leadership, TGW continually broke its own operation records, ultimately culminating with 42 participating in the November 2021 liberation of Trovons. Throughout his tenure, Tim tirelessly called fellow Wardens of all eras to battle, optimizing the organization’s turnout,

[Quebecshire]

Thank you to both of the above. Goober, I will incorporate your feedback when I have a bit more time on my hands (busy week sadly) and BBD I will fix that up when I get back to a computer!

[Minskiev]

Thank you to both of the above. Goober, I will incorporate your feedback when I have a bit more time on my hands (busy week sadly) and BBD I will fix that up when I get back to a computer!

*ahem*

[Quebecshire]

I have updated the OP for Goober and BBD's concrete suggestions. Otherwise I'm keeping Goober's more general commentary in mind. Sorry for the delay, it's been a busy week. Also, shameless bump

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

I see from some of the comments in this thread that Tim’s a bit Marmite, but based on the draft they look Commendable to me.

I get the feeling though that it could do with a little editing, maybe too many items included. Possibly concentrate on the really big ticket stuff? The writing is good though and I’m impressed with the research done.

[Quebecshire]

Unfortunately I've been away from this for quite awhile, both IRL and NS having gotten busy in their own rights, but we (me/co-authors) do still intend to pursue this, so I am bumping the thread back up for any remaining feedback.

[Team Leo]

yhhhhhh, lets do it dummies!

[Fachumonn]

Looks really good, nice job! I don't think there's much fluff or filler here!
I don't know how I will vote, since were talking about Tim here, but it's very well written!

[Fachumonn]

Inspired by Tim-Opolis’ work in Spiritus that created a durable community where the region has continued to thrive in both activity and community since their withdrawal from the region’s day to day governing affairs, a rarity among founded regions,

Sorry for double-posting, but If you're still looking for a character cut, I can't help but find it here. "a durable community where the region has continued to thrive in both activity and community" ----> "a durable community that has continued to actively thrive since", or for an alternative "created a durable community, that is still an active and thriving one since..."

Still oppose in principle for OOC stuff.

[Quebecshire]

Inspired by Tim-Opolis’ work in Spiritus that created a durable community where the region has continued to thrive in both activity and community since their withdrawal from the region’s day to day governing affairs, a rarity among founded regions,

Sorry for double-posting, but If you're still looking for a character cut, I can't help but find it here. "a durable community where the region has continued to thrive in both activity and community" ----> "a durable community that has continued to actively thrive since", or for an alternative "created a durable community, that is still an active and thriving one since..."

Still oppose in principle for OOC stuff.

Thank you, I'll keep both of those suggestions in mind when I have a chance to re-edit this again. Would you mind telegramming me or Discord DMing me (Cubic#1608) about the "OOC stuff" you're concerned about? I know Tim has quite the... personality but he is still great to work with a lot of the time and even if he wasn't, I would contend that being abrasive isn't the type of "OOC" stuff that should reasonably lead to opposing a badge.

[Ikania]

Full support. Can't think of a better guy.

[Quebecshire]

Hey everyone -

It’s been a wild time in gameplay lately. This resolution got put on the back burner for other projects and it seemed politically infeasible. However, due to a number of developments in 2022 my co-authors and I have decided to come back to this and see it through.

I’ll likely make some edits tonight and post about those as well, but otherwise we’re once again asking for feedback on this so we can move forward and get this submitted!

[The Orwell Society]

Support.

[Quebecshire]

Some changes,

1. Removed unnecessary bb-code

2. Redid the Spiritus section to add some more government service, and to make it a list

3. Removed the Osiris clause

Which actually gives us a lot of new space to work with, it's decently under the limit now... Feedback still welcome!

[Free Algerstonia]

Semicolon/comma inconsistency at the end of each clause

[Freedomanica]

Unsurprisingly a good draft, here’s some of my comments with my favorite red pen.

The Security Council,

Believing that the nation of Tim-Opolis (Tim) and its numerous proxy states have contributed to the multiverse in a myriad of positive ways, namely in the development of communities and the protection of others from invasion, ; - Try stanardising your clauses ending inconsistencies throughout the Proposal as noted by Free Algerstonia.

Aware that Tim controls the founding nation of Spiritus, and has served Spiritus in a plethora of ways since its founding in 2012, most notably by;

• Spearheading industrious recruitment efforts which allowed Spiritus to grow to a population of over 700 nations by 2013, a universally enviable milestone only achievable through intense commitment;
• Serving as President and Minister of Foreign Affairs in the region's early days, laying the groundwork for its defender alignment and community which has persisted and thrived long after the peak of Tim's day-to-day involvement as Founder,
  
  What makes their merit recognizable by this Council? A lot of what your saying is the aftermath, but these in itself are vague. What actions during their position of power acted as a catalyst in Spiritus thriving for an extended amount of time in community engagement and activity? I don’t think purely stating its alignment to defenderism goes enough in giving a light to the accomplishments of the Spiritus military if there was any anyway. I know you have been trying to cut down on lists and specifics in the works of the Spiritus gov, but if you are going to have a pause in this, at least we need to be persuaded as to why this is a powerful statement of Tim’s proficiency.
  
• Performing expertly as a military tactician for The Potato Alliance (established in-part by Spiritus), a multilateral faction of regions which it led through three nuclear apocalypses. In 2020, its leadership proved instrumental in returning the alliance from near-annihilation to global success, second only to the Augustin Alliance;

Great imo.

Awed by the significance of Tim’s refounding of Greece, an operation during which a proxy of Tim successfully secured and restored the region, later returning it to native possession. This operation saved Greece from the control of Yauna, a nation condemned by this very Council that had subjugated the region prior, Elaborate on the supposed subjugation undertaken by Yamuna to legitimize your statement for those who may not be as well versed. Convince us why it was imperative for Tim to secure the region from Yauna so much, obviously if you feel that condemnation does this to its intended effect, then you can ignore this.

Recognizing Tim’s extensive defender history since choosing to join the cause, where it was an esteemed leader in the United Defenders League. While in the UDL, it served as a Lieutenant and was skilled at timing military movements, notably in the liberations of Roman Empire and The Middle East in 2012, << A small snippet of detailing their significance is always welcome.

Admiring the continued service of Tim to defenderdom through The Order of the Grey Wardens (TGW), where it continued to work towards its full potential as a defender leader. As a leader <<< Redundant? Maybe try pioneer? in the organization’s earlier months, Tim worked to develop the organization’s early foreign policy aligning with fellow defender groups and regions, most notably in producing the Andruil Protocols with the region of <<< Unnecessary. Spiritus (an agreement which is in-force to this day). After this, Tim continued to serve as a Warden-Commander for several years, during which they aided in the organization’s growth I think you can leave this out to be honest. We are quite convinced on Tim’s work in TGW. Though if it stays, at least elaborate on what exactly was done by Tim in this relative time period than to be seen as wasteful filler, missions might not be as swaying, but if it was great relatively at this time, it feels unrelated to Tim’s supposed work so maybe bridging that somehow would be nice. and led Wardens in over 297 missions prior to becoming First Warden,

Honoring Tim’s tenure as First Warden from July 2020 until November 2021, wherein Tim tirelessly pursued and integrated new talent, leading to a net gain of 22 Wardens and thus reforming TGW into one of the most active militaries of the time. Under Tim’s leadership, TGW continually broke its own operation records, ultimately culminating with 42 Wardens participating in the November 2021 liberation of Trovons. Throughout its tenure, Tim tirelessly called fellow Wardens of all eras to battle, optimizing the organization’s turnout,

Impressed by Tim’s national patriotic maybe? I get what your saying, but it may confuse others in terms of their nation, not overall contribution and loyalty to defenderdom. Obviously you can keep it if you want. dedication to defending through TGW, where from its induction to TGW through the end of its tenure as First Warden, it attended an incredible 510 deployments and 6191 total operations, including a remarkable 4462 defenses, 95 liberations, and 30 sieges,

Appreciating that many crucial Security Council resolutions that have been authored and co-authored by Tim or its proxies, such as:

• SC#74 “Condemn Lone Wolves United”, a resolution that censures a prolific raiding organization and provides a clear definition for the practice of “griefing”;
• SC#191 "Repeal: 'Condemn DEN'", which repealed the condemnation of a now-defunct raider organization, citing several historical inaccuracies such as the misinformation regarding the 2012 occupation of Christmas; <<< Perhaps mention one critical inaccuracy provided by the raiders in this occupation to elevate your claim.
• SC#203 “Liberate Eternal Scholars”, a liberation which freed the region from fascist occupiers that had sought to take the region as a trophy.

Indebted to Tim for its maintenance of the library for all Security Council resolutions for three years, an effort taken up by a select few nations dedicated to preserving the results of crucial international debates,

Believing with little doubt that the nation of Tim has been heavily skilled in the international crafts of both region development and military service,

Hereby commends [nation=long]Tim-Opolis[/nation].

Co-authors: Minskiev and Zukchiva.

Overall I am convinced regardless. Full support.

[Queen Yuno]

Yikes.

I am completely against.

This guy has anger issues.


Edit:

We can add self-centered to the list, as well.

[Quebecshire]

Alger and Freed, I'll address both of your suggestions sometime tomorrow. Thank you.

[Quebecshire]

Semicolon/comma inconsistency at the end of each clause

This should be resolved now, thank you.

Now onto Freed's commentary,

Unsurprisingly a good draft, here’s some of my comments with my favorite red pen.

The Security Council,

Believing that the nation of Tim-Opolis (Tim) and its numerous proxy states have contributed to the multiverse in a myriad of positive ways, namely in the development of communities and the protection of others from invasion, ; - Try stanardising your clauses ending inconsistencies throughout the Proposal as noted by Free Algerstonia.

Aware that Tim controls the founding nation of Spiritus, and has served Spiritus in a plethora of ways since its founding in 2012, most notably by;

• Spearheading industrious recruitment efforts which allowed Spiritus to grow to a population of over 700 nations by 2013, a universally enviable milestone only achievable through intense commitment;
• Serving as President and Minister of Foreign Affairs in the region's early days, laying the groundwork for its defender alignment and community which has persisted and thrived long after the peak of Tim's day-to-day involvement as Founder,
  
  What makes their merit recognizable by this Council? A lot of what your saying is the aftermath, but these in itself are vague. What actions during their position of power acted as a catalyst in Spiritus thriving for an extended amount of time in community engagement and activity? I don’t think purely stating its alignment to defenderism goes enough in giving a light to the accomplishments of the Spiritus military if there was any anyway. I know you have been trying to cut down on lists and specifics in the works of the Spiritus gov, but if you are going to have a pause in this, at least we need to be persuaded as to why this is a powerful statement of Tim’s proficiency.
  
• Performing expertly as a military tactician for The Potato Alliance (established in-part by Spiritus), a multilateral faction of regions which it led through three nuclear apocalypses. In 2020, its leadership proved instrumental in returning the alliance from near-annihilation to global success, second only to the Augustin Alliance;

Great imo.

Awed by the significance of Tim’s refounding of Greece, an operation during which a proxy of Tim successfully secured and restored the region, later returning it to native possession. This operation saved Greece from the control of Yauna, a nation condemned by this very Council that had subjugated the region prior, Elaborate on the supposed subjugation undertaken by Yamuna to legitimize your statement for those who may not be as well versed. Convince us why it was imperative for Tim to secure the region from Yauna so much, obviously if you feel that condemnation does this to its intended effect, then you can ignore this.

Recognizing Tim’s extensive defender history since choosing to join the cause, where it was an esteemed leader in the United Defenders League. While in the UDL, it served as a Lieutenant and was skilled at timing military movements, notably in the liberations of Roman Empire and The Middle East in 2012, << A small snippet of detailing their significance is always welcome.

Admiring the continued service of Tim to defenderdom through The Order of the Grey Wardens (TGW), where it continued to work towards its full potential as a defender leader. As a leader <<< Redundant? Maybe try pioneer? in the organization’s earlier months, Tim worked to develop the organization’s early foreign policy aligning with fellow defender groups and regions, most notably in producing the Andruil Protocols with the region of <<< Unnecessary. Spiritus (an agreement which is in-force to this day). After this, Tim continued to serve as a Warden-Commander for several years, during which they aided in the organization’s growth I think you can leave this out to be honest. We are quite convinced on Tim’s work in TGW. Though if it stays, at least elaborate on what exactly was done by Tim in this relative time period than to be seen as wasteful filler, missions might not be as swaying, but if it was great relatively at this time, it feels unrelated to Tim’s supposed work so maybe bridging that somehow would be nice. and led Wardens in over 297 missions prior to becoming First Warden,

Honoring Tim’s tenure as First Warden from July 2020 until November 2021, wherein Tim tirelessly pursued and integrated new talent, leading to a net gain of 22 Wardens and thus reforming TGW into one of the most active militaries of the time. Under Tim’s leadership, TGW continually broke its own operation records, ultimately culminating with 42 Wardens participating in the November 2021 liberation of Trovons. Throughout its tenure, Tim tirelessly called fellow Wardens of all eras to battle, optimizing the organization’s turnout,

Impressed by Tim’s national patriotic maybe? I get what your saying, but it may confuse others in terms of their nation, not overall contribution and loyalty to defenderdom. Obviously you can keep it if you want. dedication to defending through TGW, where from its induction to TGW through the end of its tenure as First Warden, it attended an incredible 510 deployments and 6191 total operations, including a remarkable 4462 defenses, 95 liberations, and 30 sieges,

Appreciating that many crucial Security Council resolutions that have been authored and co-authored by Tim or its proxies, such as:

• SC#74 “Condemn Lone Wolves United”, a resolution that censures a prolific raiding organization and provides a clear definition for the practice of “griefing”;
• SC#191 "Repeal: 'Condemn DEN'", which repealed the condemnation of a now-defunct raider organization, citing several historical inaccuracies such as the misinformation regarding the 2012 occupation of Christmas; <<< Perhaps mention one critical inaccuracy provided by the raiders in this occupation to elevate your claim.
• SC#203 “Liberate Eternal Scholars”, a liberation which freed the region from fascist occupiers that had sought to take the region as a trophy.

Indebted to Tim for its maintenance of the library for all Security Council resolutions for three years, an effort taken up by a select few nations dedicated to preserving the results of crucial international debates,

Believing with little doubt that the nation of Tim has been heavily skilled in the international crafts of both region development and military service,

Hereby commends [nation=long]Tim-Opolis[/nation].

Co-authors: Minskiev and Zukchiva.

Overall I am convinced regardless. Full support.

Not going to play with BB-code so I'll be responding in a list format.

1. Rectified per above.

2. I think establishing the defender lean of a region which would go on to have a substantial military (SDF), and be a PfS/Aegis member to this day is significant enough to appreciate the context of? President and MoFA are often foreign-facing positions to varying extents, so I personally think it justifies those (but am open to more commentary on this). There's also the context of Tim's recruitment efforts which I think are self-explanatory for why they're critical to community establishment.

3. There's already two Security Council resolutions on the books that relate heavily (if not entirely) to this. SC 29 and SC 110. If your suggestion is clearer wording to specify that it means a raider had previously refounded it then we can look into that, but more broadly I don't think this is the resolution to tell the story of Yauna, nor do I think it's necessary here (especially since this is from the perspective of the SC which has already addressed these matters).

4. The clause is primarily about Tim's innovation in triggering, which is already specified ("timing military movements") as he would have triggered those operations. Given that the point of the clause is Tim's role more than the targets, I think it's sufficient unless you're suggesting a possible wording change to make it clearer that I'm discussing triggering, though this is already similar to wording I've used in Commend Luca ("calculating military movements") that seems to be well-understood.

5. I'm unsure if "pioneer" is the best word for this context, but I've replaced the redundancy with "driving force" to fix it nonetheless, so thanks.

6. Axed the unnecessary bit, thanks.

7. I think the part about growth is necessary, but am happy to hear from others on wording and whether or not they agree. Tim's defining characteristic is his proficiency as a "hype-man" of sorts, getting people to turn out and do their best, which is critical for military growth. As a side note, I've replaced "missions" with "deployments" to clarify that it refers 297 updates attended (more substantial), not 297 operations (which would be a much smaller feat).

8. Eh, it was meant to be a legal substitute for "personal" but you'd be right in that it sounds off. I've replaced "national" with "fervent".

9. I tentatively disagree. I'd love to hear from more people, but again, this proposal is from the perspective of the SC and the SC has already addressed this, so my concern is that it would be unnecessary and bordering on filler here. Specifics are good, but in a case where the resolution number is explicitly referenced (and therefore easily accessible in full), I am currently unconvinced it needs restating.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Still reads pretty well to me. The only quibble would be the, to me, excessive detail in the operations clause - is giving the individual numbers of defences etc. necessary?

As I said previously Tim seems a bit of a Marmite character - hopefully he’s has more fans than detractors when it comes to the vote.

[Quebecshire]

Still reads pretty well to me. The only quibble would be the, to me, excessive detail in the operations clause - is giving the individual numbers of defences etc. necessary?

Hmm. I don't think it's a problem per se, but here's a sample rewrite, what do you think of this as opposed to the current clause? Could still be tweaked, but it's something to work with:

Impressed by Tim’s fervent dedication to defending through TGW, where from its induction to TGW through the end of its tenure as First Warden, it attended an incredible 510 deployments and 6191 total operations, taking an active role in leadership and participation that has continued since the conclusion of their time leading the Order,

I'm also not addicted to using "Impressed" here, so I'm trying to think of something that better characterizes Tim's hype/passion for defending.

[The North Polish Union]

I'm very excited to commend a player whose reaction to losing on the battlefield is to accuse the other side of cheating/cyberattacking the site, in spite of the fact that its his own faction's poorly-made tools causing the problem.

[Quebecshire]

I'm very excited to commend a player whose reaction to losing on the battlefield is to accuse the other side of cheating/cyberattacking the site, in spite of the fact that its his own faction's poorly-made tools causing the problem.

I don't think one inadvisable post is worth not recognizing a player with over a decade of contribution, and I think everyone reading this knows you're engaging in poor faith here and the SC at large lately (see also: the fit you've been throwing in the Euro replacement thread), so I won't entertain you anymore after this.

PS: In the interests of accuracy, Storm was a script made by KN/Codpiece, not the broader "faction", but yes it was a bugged out defender-used script.

EDIT: Also, nowhere in that post or anywhere else did Tim every try to suggest that raider leaders or the "other side" organized it or supported anything like that if it was the case, so don't suggest such things when it comes to matters like that.