NATION

PASSWORD

[Withdrawn] Liberate Lardyland

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.
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Xoriet
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[Withdrawn] Liberate Lardyland

Postby Xoriet » Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:58 pm

Normally I don't mess with offensive Liberations, but in this one case I think it is fitting. After the deletion of Captain Lard this morning, a particularly problematic region has been opened to intervention.

Lardyland, known for embassy spamming, regular spamming, posting obscene content, allowing quotes of Hitler and other fascists within their region, allying with fascists and joining an alliance that promoted fascism, impersonating members of other regions, spamming the RMBs of other regions, linking to illicit content onsite, harassing people for their own amusement, and other forms of poor behavior, actually is possible to raid now. Given that they have not refounded their region, most of the problematic onsite content remains in the public domain except in the many cases where Moderators deleted posts (and posters) or the posters went back to delete the content.

Given that the majority of their problematic behaviors involve moderator intervention or site rule-violating content, most of the mentions of that have to be carefully phrased and can't really be given much elaboration in the proposal itself.

Here's the first rough draft.

Edit: Second draft. Submitting now, and we'll see how it goes. Thanks to Wym and Thousand Branches for suggestions.

The Security Council,

Noting that through a summary Act of God, the founder nation of Lardyland was dismantled and its leadership abolished, leaving the region open to summary justice for its repeated and egregious crimes against the international community.

Observing that Lardyland was founded on the principles of disruption and disorder and has sought to bring similar chaos to other regions and induct nations both within and outside of Lardyland into emulating such conduct.

Stating that these include active disruption of diplomatic communication mediums between foreign nations conducting regional affairs, beleaguering regions with repeated invitations for unwanted diplomatic relations after repeated previous refusals, and using public news mediums to force undesirable content against the standards of decency of other nations.

Emphasizing that the conduct of the leaders of Lardyland's native nations has included such problematic acts as impersonating the leaders of nations and regions for personal entertainment, brazenly publishing indecent content in public diplomatic venues with intent to disrupt and disturb other nations, and persistently harassing other national leaders for no reason other than personal amusement.

Illustrating the existence of alliances and formal diplomatic relations of Lardyland, both past and present, with fascist and fascist-aligned regions such as Farkasfalka, The United Fascist Workers Association, Raxulan Empire, Barbaria, and Altmora. This includes joining the Virtu League, an alliance whose purpose was to attempt to promote fascism among nations, and pro-fascist content permitted among the nations of their own region.

Concluding that Lardyland has repeatedly and flagrantly violated international law as well as associated with, allowed, and even promoted pro-fascist rhetoric, demonstrating a refusal to respect the sanctity of other regions.

Believing that these disgraceful deeds should not be something that passes without formal reproach.

Hereby Liberates Lardyland.



The Security Council,

Noting that through a summary Act of God, the founder nation of Lardyland was dismantled and its leadership abolished and has left the region open to receiving summary justice for its crimes against the international community.

Observing that Lardyland was founded on the principles of disruption and disorder and has sought to bring similar chaos to other regions and induct nations both within and outside of Lardyland in such conduct.

Stating that these include active disruptions of diplomatic communication mediums between foreign nations conducting regional affairs, beleaguering regions with repeated invitations for unwanted diplomatic relations in the form of embassies even after repeated previous refusals, and using public news mediums to push undesirable content against the standards of decency of other nations.

Emphasizing that the conduct of the leaders of the native nations of Lardyland has also included such problematic acts as impersonating the leaders of nations and regions for personal entertainment, brazenly publishing indecent content in public diplomatic venues with intent to disrupt and disturb other nations, and persistently harassing other national leaders for no reason other than personal amusement.

Illustrating the existence of alliances, previous alliances, and formal diplomatic relations of Lardyland with fascist and fascist-aligned regions such as Farkasfalka, The United Fascist Workers Association, Raxulan Empire, Barbaria, and Altmora. This includes joining the Virtu League, an alliance whose purpose was to attempt to promote fascism among nations, and pro-fascist content permitted among the nations of their own region.

Remarking that Lardyland's allowance and promotion of fascist content as well as associating with its adherents, repeated and flagrant violations of international law which have led to many censures, and refusal to respect the sanctity of other regions should not be something that goes unheeded by the international community.

Hereby Liberates Lardyland.
Last edited by Xoriet on Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:01 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Wymondham
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Postby Wymondham » Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:29 pm

Xoriet wrote:Stating that these include active disruptions of diplomatic communication mediums between foreign nations conducting regional affairs, beleaguering regions with repeated invitations for unwanted diplomatic relations in the form of embassies even after repeated previous refusals, and using public news mediums to push undesirable content against the standards of decency of other nations.

Surely "active disruption"?
Illustrating the existence of alliances, previous alliances, and formal diplomatic relations of Lardyland with fascist and fascist-aligned regions such as Farkasfalka, The United Fascist Workers Association, Raxulan Empire, Barbaria, and Altmora. This includes joining the Virtu League, an alliance whose purpose was to attempt to promote fascism among nations, and pro-fascist content permitted among the nations of their own region

How about "Illustrating the existence of alliances, past and present, as well as formal diplomatic relations, between Lardyland and fascist or fascist-aligned regions. Such as..."

Remarking that Lardyland's allowance and promotion of fascist content as well as associating with its adherents, repeated and flagrant violations of international law which have led to many censures, and refusal to respect the sanctity of other regions should not be something that goes unheeded by the international community.

How about changing this to read as follows:
Remarking that Lardyland's encouragement and promotion of fascist content, repeated and flagrant violations of international law, and refusal to respect the sanctity of other regions must not be allowed to go unheeded by the international community.
Last edited by Wymondham on Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Frenchy II
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Postby Frenchy II » Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:45 pm

offensive liberation so based and what liberations should be used for exclusively

the resolution could be terrible and i would vote for it let's crack this region open

though i don't expect the resolution to be terrible or anything lmao you get what i mean
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Postby Benevolent Thomas » Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:20 pm

Frenchy II wrote:offensive liberation so based and what liberations should be used for exclusively

the resolution could be terrible and i would vote for it let's crack this region open

though i don't expect the resolution to be terrible or anything lmao you get what i mean

I agree. I think they'd be done a kindness by Xoriet, an extremely influential nation, writing a well-penned liberation, cementing their legacy. It should read at a pre-k level and give them zero credit for having disrupted anything. We need one of the illiterates from Mordor circa 2013 writing this.
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Varanius
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Postby Varanius » Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:24 pm

Benevolent Thomas wrote:
Frenchy II wrote:offensive liberation so based and what liberations should be used for exclusively

the resolution could be terrible and i would vote for it let's crack this region open

though i don't expect the resolution to be terrible or anything lmao you get what i mean

I agree. I think they'd be done a kindness by Xoriet, an extremely influential nation, writing a well-penned liberation, cementing their legacy. It should read at a pre-k level and give them zero credit for having disrupted anything. We need one of the illiterates from Mordor circa 2013 writing this.
Illiterate you say?
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Sedgistan
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Postby Sedgistan » Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:47 pm

Looks fine from a Rule 3b perspective (mention of NS rules illegal stuff within a proposal), but if anything substantial changes with that in new drafts, make sure to request another ruling prior to submission.
Last edited by Sedgistan on Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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All Wild Things
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Postby All Wild Things » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:01 pm

Should read:

The Security Council,

Noting bruh, Lardyland.

Hereby Liberates Lardyland.


In your "illustrating" paragraph, do you really want fascist region names permanently recorded?

Against, btw, though I doubt anyone cares.

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Ereh
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Postby Ereh » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:11 pm

Against, let’s not give them more attention.

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Concrete Slab
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Postby Concrete Slab » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:39 pm

I am Against as well.

It would be one thing if the target of an offensive liberation is still an active region that is continuing to push disgusting ideologies on the world and an opportunity arose to smite it. However, Lardyland currently has two members and seems to be dead in the water.
We would also echo the sentiments of the delegation from All Wild Things. It is better to just let this region be forgotten.
Last edited by Concrete Slab on Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Miravana
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Postby Miravana » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:49 pm

For.

The argument about not giving attention to this region is a flawed one. Historically we have used the argument in regards to ignoring proposals by active problematic communities as providing that attention would bring exposure to their region for new impressionable nations. This proposal does not do that. The point of this proposal is to rid the potential of the return of this community in the region Lardyland entirely, and therefore it is something that should be supported.
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Postby Hulldom » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:17 pm

For. They've done more than enough to merit destruction.
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Jar Wattinree
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Postby Jar Wattinree » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:36 pm

Image

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Postby Refuge Isle » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:47 pm

Quality content, full support. Can't wait.

Be sure to invite me to the party :lol:

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Emodea
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Postby Emodea » Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:08 pm

For. Time to see someone close 600+ embassies in 10 minutes again :p
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The United Peoples of Centrism
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Postby The United Peoples of Centrism » Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:13 pm

Concrete Slab wrote:I am Against as well.

It would be one thing if the target of an offensive liberation is still an active region that is continuing to push disgusting ideologies on the world and an opportunity arose to smite it. However, Lardyland currently has two members and seems to be dead in the water.
We would also echo the sentiments of the delegation from All Wild Things. It is better to just let this region be forgotten.

Not trying to be rude, but the region currently has two members because the founder ejected everyone else yesterday before being DEATed...

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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:27 pm

Yet more weaponization of the liberation function. But given that gameplay is dead now who cares I guess, right?
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Thousand Branches
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Postby Thousand Branches » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:30 pm

Xori!! Been a while since I've seen you doing SC stuff, glad to have a good writer back :) I have a couple edits today, mostly grammar, syntax, diction, sentence structure, boring English stuff in other words :P

Xoriet wrote:Noting that through a summary Act of God, the founder nation of Lardyland was dismantled and its leadership abolished and has left the region open to receiving summary justice for its crimes against the international community.

"and has left the" would sound much smoother as ", leaving the".

Delete "receiving" maybe?

Adjective before "crimes"? (Heinous, terrible, idk something fancier)

Xoriet wrote:Observing that Lardyland was founded on the principles of disruption and disorder and has sought to bring similar chaos to other regions and induct nations both within and outside of Lardyland in such conduct.


Not sure how much I like "and has sought to bring similar chaos". I would argue they have done more than seek, they have sowed chaos and also considering you just noted the principles were disruption and disorder, it would be the same chaos rather than a similar one. Perhaps more like "and has released that chaos maliciously onto the nations and regions of the international community." (note this would be a replacement for the whole second half of this clause, also just a suggestion, feel free to tell me to shush :p)

Xoriet wrote:Stating that these include active disruptions of diplomatic communication mediums between foreign nations conducting regional affairs, beleaguering regions with repeated invitations for unwanted diplomatic relations in the form of embassies even after repeated previous refusals, and using public news mediums to push undesirable content against the standards of decency of other nations.


"these include" would maybe be "this includes". Also tbh I don't really like this opener at all, it's mildly lacking in context and also sort of dull.

"beleaguering" :bow: :bow: :bow:

I think "in the form of embassies" might be unnecessary and it serves to make the middle of this clause a tad too clunky (if you wanted to include it, you could maybe just do "repeated embassy invitations" or something to that effect).

Delete the comma before "and using", I think it's unnecessary... I think...

Maybe a more forceful word than "push"?

"against the standards of decency of other nations" is vague and kinda weird sounding, might reword this last bit.

Xoriet wrote:Emphasizing that the conduct of the leaders of the native nations of Lardyland has also included such problematic acts as impersonating the leaders of nations and regions for personal entertainment, brazenly publishing indecent content in public diplomatic venues with intent to disrupt and disturb other nations, and persistently harassing other national leaders for no reason other than personal amusement.


instead of "native nations of Lardyland", might do "Lardyland's native nations" so you don't have three uses of "of" right next to each other.

You use both "personal entertainment" and "personal amusement" in this clause. Maybe find a way to mix that up a lil.

Xoriet wrote:Illustrating the existence of alliances, previous alliances, and formal diplomatic relations of Lardyland with fascist and fascist-aligned regions such as Farkasfalka, The United Fascist Workers Association, Raxulan Empire, Barbaria, and Altmora. This includes joining the Virtu League, an alliance whose purpose was to attempt to promote fascism among nations, and pro-fascist content permitted among the nations of their own region.


instead of "alliances, previous alliances, and formal diplomatic relations of Lardyland", I'd recommend "alliances and formal diplomatic relations of Lardyland, both past and present"

"joining" --> "their membership in"

This whole bit is repetitive ("promote fascism among nations, and pro-fascist content permitted among the nations of their own region."). It would work better as a slightly shorter ("promote pro-fascist content and rhetoric among the nations of their region").

Xoriet wrote:Remarking that Lardyland's allowance and promotion of fascist content as well as associating with its adherents, repeated and flagrant violations of international law which have led to many censures, and refusal to respect the sanctity of other regions should not be something that goes unheeded by the international community.

Hmm gonna suggest a full rewrite on this one, there's a lot of little things that would help the flow of this clause:

"Remarking that Lardyland has repeatedly and flagrantly violated international law, as well as associated, allowed, and even promoted pro-fascist rhetoric, and refused to respect the sanctity of other regions, and that these disgraceful deeds should not be something that goes unheeded by the international community,"

With the weird commas and switches between topics in this clause, i decided to change the tense a little and I think it helps flow a lot. I took a few small creative liberties, of course feel free to edit this in any way you like :)

I think that's all the edits I have, hope this is helpful!

Have a great day~

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Xoriet
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Postby Xoriet » Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:21 am

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone. I'll implement most of them into a second draft later today. Normally I spend a week or so writing the rough first draft, but circumstances are what they are.
Last edited by Xoriet on Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:51 am

All Wild Things wrote:.....In your "illustrating" paragraph, do you really want fascist region names permanently recorded?.....

Tend to agree with this, let’s not give those regions any publicity.

Otherwise full support.
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:57 am

Noting that through a summary Act of God, the founder nation of Lardyland was dismantled and its leadership abolished and has left the region open to receiving summary justice for its crimes against the international community.


I think the question is should the Security Council facilitate summary justice? I would caution the World Assembly to not let the indefensible conduct of Lardyland cloud this Assembly's judgment.

Since I have no reputation to protect, I will make their case here. :P

What is summary justice good for? It is in essence, sanctions without process. When your 'process' is to let the chips fall where they fall, the international community is effectively endorsing a situation where the authority regarding whether an invasion even occurs and whether an occupation lasts and on what terms it is pursued is deferred to the judgment of the invading parties and not necessarily the international community.

This is not an academic point, the offensive liberation of NAZI EUROPE, for instance, opened up all sorts of disagreements between the NPO, TBH, SOVCON, TNP, and Europeia, and others in terms of how the operation should be led and organized and pursued, against a backdrop of mixed international opinion, defender opposition, and a great deal of interregional politics:

Senator Karpathos had been planning to take NAZI EUROPE for quite some time before it came down to the wire in June (we had an intelligence connection monitoring the absences of the region's delegate). We had approximately 25 to 30 NPO updaters ready for the event, a number that few to no other regions or organizations were able to come up with at the time. A number of groups were included alongside the NPO and the victory was pretty much sealed, assuming the mission was carried out with little to no error. However, Karpathos made the mistake of discretely inviting Astarial and Charles Cerebella to join; word then spread through the "imperialist" social circle and made its way to Jakker of The Black Hawks (it is now known that Asta herself passed the word on to TBH).

The Black Hawks then notified the NPO that they too were planning to attack NAZI EUROPE on the same night at the same time. There is little doubt in my mind that this was coincidental. The NPO, while agitated by the attempt by TBH to be the originators of the idea rather than join the NPO's operation as an associated force, agreed to make the operation a joint effort to further insure its success. Asta was designated as trigger(wo)man and the wait began.

When it came time to assemble for the invasion, TBH had made a number of decisions on which the NPO was not consulted and went so far as to reassign one of the Pacifican Expeditionary Forces' leads (they replaced Aleisyr with Avakael). A large number of TBH leads were assigned and PEF forces were ordered by Jakker to endorse all of these TBH members. When confronted regarding their defiant and questionable decisions, Jakker and Asta avoided addressing the issues. In response to this obvious decision to muscle their way into the mission and then take over, Karpathos and I ordered EPSA and PEF members to withdraw their endorsements from the TBH/imperialist leads. The resulting reaction from Asta and Jakker was explosive. I was the first to withdraw EPSA's endorsements and Asta fiercely accused me (and later Karpathos, the mission's creator) of attempting to sabotage the invasion. TBH leadership stated that if the NPO had an issue with TBH's organization of the mission, that it should be discussed after the mission was completed.
[1]


I would argue that today's Security Council should make use of its 'Declaration' category to support a more sophisticated, fairer, and process-driven method for delivering penalties and sanctions to offending regions.

With the advent of the new category, we do not have to continue to rely on such blunt instruments as offensive liberations without conditions and prior planning.

The international community could use a 'Declaration' to establish an international tribunal or court that would lay penalties, including the use of the World Assembly for offensive purposes, and establish an authorized operation and its terms and conditions prior to the passage of an offensive liberation if an offensive liberation is to be pursued.
Last edited by Unibot III on Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:27 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:03 am

The Security Council's resolutions are a historical record to all nations, present and future. They should not be arbitrarily airbrushed simply to avert the possibility of Phyrric satisfaction (at best) for about three dozen nations, none of which exercise significant political influence outside of the fascist community.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:39 am

Re Unibot’s post - Article 3 of SC #358 seems to cover military action against fascist regions quite nicely.

No need for some long, drawn-out process.
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:25 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Re Unibot’s post - Article 3 of SC #358 seems to cover military action against fascist regions quite nicely.

No need for some long, drawn-out process.


Actually, I was anticipating that SC#358 would be a framework or a fundamental text for the tribunal/court when dealing with cases regarding fascist or fascist-sympathetic regions.

The international experience with “summary justice” — these kinds of mob coalitions — has been one of mis-coordination of resources, politics, and other challenges, in addition a lack of legitimacy.

It’s quick to pass a liberation, but effective action can be significantly delayed or undermined by the lack of a formal process here.

What I’m suggesting is we have the tools now that we didn’t have back in 2013: establish a tribunal of some sort, let us hear Lardyland’s case, let us decide, and if appropriate, let an international authority formulate any responses to the problem fairly and clearly.

If military action is to be taken, avoiding a “free-for-all” will support, not undermine, the administration of justice.
Last edited by Unibot III on Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Honeydewistania » Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:13 am

Unibot III wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Re Unibot’s post - Article 3 of SC #358 seems to cover military action against fascist regions quite nicely.

No need for some long, drawn-out process.


Actually, I was anticipating that SC#358 would be a framework or a fundamental text for the tribunal/court when dealing with cases regarding fascist or fascist-sympathetic regions.

The international experience with “summary justice” — these kinds of mob coalitions — has been one of mis-coordination of resources, politics, and other challenges, in addition a lack of legitimacy.

It’s quick to pass a liberation, but effective action can be significantly delayed or undermined by the lack of a formal process here.

What I’m suggesting is we have the tools now that we didn’t have back in 2013: establish a tribunal of some sort, let us hear Lardyland’s case, let us decide, and if appropriate, let an international authority formulate any responses to the problem fairly and clearly.

If military action is to be taken, avoiding a “free-for-all” will support, not undermine, the administration of justice.


Considering the emphasis on the target region's fascist associations, most likely Antifa would raid it, instead of some "mob coalition".
she/her

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Varanius
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Posts: 333
Founded: Sep 18, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Varanius » Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:55 am

I fully support mob coalitions raiding Lardyland. Please, mob away.
Attack Chihuahua of the West Pacific
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Holder of the Unrecognized Throne of the Former Kingdom of Europeia

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