[DEFEATED] Repeal SC#246 "Liberate Nazi Europa"

[Tinhampton]

This resolution was at vote between the 14th and 18th of September, 2021.
It was defeated by a margin of 9,414 votes (about 64%) to 5,275 (about 36%).

---

This proposal has been filed to the Security Council Repeals Board.
NOTE: This proposal reached quorum after attaining 53 approvals within a day of submission - although I've forgotten who or when :P

---

Character count: 935
Word count: 146

Shortly after NE's deletion, Praeceps proposed a repeal of its Liberation which received some criticism for supposedly giving the region "attention" - even though there could not possibly be anybody there to crave it, given that it had just been mod-deleted - and was subsequently abandoned. (Note, however, the BELIEVING clause on this iteration.) I showed the proposal text you see below to Prae a few weeks ago and he actually didn't know if he'd support or oppose it.

This is on LAST CALL because I believe that there will be little useful feedback regarding the actual text of the proposal, although this may change. I am refraining from submitting this immediately solely so that the mods can carry out a legality check on the RECALLING clause - as is required of proposals citing rule violations.

Repeal "Liberate Nazi Europa"
A resolution to repeal previously passed legislation.

Category: Repeal

Resolution: SC#246

Proposed by: Tinhampton

---

Security Council Resolution #246 “Liberate Nazi Europa” shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

THE SECURITY COUNCIL:

RECOGNISING that the passage of this repeal will not do anything to change this august body's firm and long-standing stance against fascism, national socialism, and other ideologies that promote discrimination;

RECALLING that, while the author of SC#246 hoped that the target region would "be made vulnerable by this august body through" its Liberation, the far superior outcome of its being involuntarily dissolved and prevented from ever being refounded was accomplished by decree of the Secretariat in May 2021;

NOTING that, far from currently having "an executive Founder," the target region currently has no founder of any description (never mind any residents); and

BELIEVING that the target region neither poses such a great threat to the international community that it should remain Liberated, nor has the ability to meaningfully relish in the repeal of its Liberation:

HEREBY REPEALS SC#246.

[Astrobolt]

There is no compelling reason for a repeal.

[Tinhampton]

I have always supported the repeal of unnecessary resolutions

[Giovanniland]

Since the region was mod-deleted and prevented from ever being refounded, there's no reason to repeal and give it any more attention. One can't claim the community uses the liberation as a badge of honor, since there's no community nor region to speak of anymore. All this will do is give fascists across NationStates - especially those previously residing in this region that may have joined other fascist ones since then - a platform to advertise their evil ideology, and nobody wants that.

[HumanSanity]

What if...we didn't?

[Tinhampton]

Since the region was mod-deleted and prevented from ever being refounded, there's no reason to repeal and give it any more attention.

What.

One can't claim the community uses the liberation as a badge of honor, since there's no community nor region to speak of anymore. All this will do is give fascists across NationStates - especially those previously residing in this region that may have joined other fascist ones since then - a platform to advertise their evil ideology, and nobody wants that.

I'm old enough to remember a time - somewhere around 2017 - where fascists could and likely would be named and shamed in proposals. Now you can't even talk about them in the vaguest terms imaginable?

What if...we didn't?

:ItIsAMystery:

[Giovanniland]

One can't claim the community uses the liberation as a badge of honor, since there's no community nor region to speak of anymore. All this will do is give fascists across NationStates - especially those previously residing in this region that may have joined other fascist ones since then - a platform to advertise their evil ideology, and nobody wants that.

I'm old enough to remember a time - somewhere around 2017 - where fascists could and likely would be named and shamed in proposals. Now you can't even talk about them in the vaguest terms imaginable?

Times change, and with them SC proposals.

[Sylh Alanor]

:ItIsAMystery:

Wait a second, you can't just use Refugi emotes like this!

[Life During Wartime]

Nothing is gained from repealing this resolution. This is completely unnecessary. Just leave it be, please

[Morover]

I might be able to support this during a time of SC inactivity. For now, though, I agree with the other people in this thread.

[Great Algerstonia]

Since the region was mod-deleted and prevented from ever being refounded, there's no reason to repeal and give it any more attention. One can't claim the community uses the liberation as a badge of honor, since there's no community nor region to speak of anymore. All this will do is give fascists across NationStates - especially those previously residing in this region that may have joined other fascist ones since then - a platform to advertise their evil ideology, and nobody wants that.

And literally every offensive liberation around doesn't?

[Varanius]

Since the region was mod-deleted and prevented from ever being refounded, there's no reason to repeal and give it any more attention. One can't claim the community uses the liberation as a badge of honor, since there's no community nor region to speak of anymore. All this will do is give fascists across NationStates - especially those previously residing in this region that may have joined other fascist ones since then - a platform to advertise their evil ideology, and nobody wants that.

And literally every offensive liberation around doesn't?

I didn’t think it needed to be explained but there’s a difference between attention for the cause of raiding them, and attention for the sake of attention.

[Flanderlion]

They don't exist now? So surely the reasoning about giving attention to them doesn't fly now, as the concern is about nations joining their region.

[Hulldom]

On the contrary, un-liberating a Nazi region would undermine incredibly anti-fascist efforts more broadly. Viscerally and violently opposed.

[Honeydewistania]

On the contrary, un-liberating a Nazi region would undermine incredibly anti-fascist efforts more broadly. Viscerally and violently opposed.

How? This region doesn’t even exist as a region anymore. It cannot be reestablished as a region, so no anti fascist effort is undermined by repealing this. That said, it doesn’t benefit anything either

[Hulldom]

On the contrary, un-liberating a Nazi region would undermine incredibly anti-fascist efforts more broadly. Viscerally and violently opposed.

How? This region doesn’t even exist as a region anymore. It cannot be reestablished as a region, so no anti fascist effort is undermined by repealing this. That said, it doesn’t benefit anything either

The message that it is possible to repeal your liberation as a fascist-aligned region, regardless of how it's being done, is not one we should be sending.

[Honeydewistania]

How? This region doesn’t even exist as a region anymore. It cannot be reestablished as a region, so no anti fascist effort is undermined by repealing this. That said, it doesn’t benefit anything either

The message that it is possible to repeal your liberation as a fascist-aligned region, regardless of how it's being done, is not one we should be sending.

What?

I don’t understand. What message is being sent here? And how does that even undermine anti-fascist efforts?

[Debussy]

Let's wipe this from the records like the mods did the region.

[Giovanniland]

They don't exist now? So surely the reasoning about giving attention to them doesn't fly now, as the concern is about nations joining their region.

The concern is also about advertising the broader ideology associated with this region, which is still present in NationStates even if nations and regions with the word "Nazi" can't be founded anymore.

[Refuge Isle]

Against. I think it ought to stay as a record of what was accomplished by the SC, and a warning.

There is no harm in keeping it on the records, and it will have no impact on a region by that name ever again. The text of the resolution does not get "wiped from the records", it was a permanent addition to the site from the moment it was passed, like all other resolutions. Nothing is accomplished by adding striking it out.

It can stay liberated, just as was the general consensus the last time the idea was floated. Nothing has changed.

[Tinhampton]

Against. I think it ought to stay as a record of what was accomplished by the SC... The text of the resolution does not get "wiped from the records", it was a permanent addition to the site from the moment it was passed, like all other resolutions.

If you admit that SC#246 would not be destroyed by virtue of its being repealed, then why do you believe that SC#246 can no longer serve "as a record of what was accomplished by the SC" if it is repealed? By that metric, nothing the Security Council passes should ever be repealed for any reason, ever.

It can stay liberated, just as was the general consensus the last time the idea was floated. Nothing has changed.

Five people (explicitly) opposed Praetor's repeal attempt. One said she would support a better-written version; one thought it should remain as "a historical note" (see above); the other three were opposed as per argumentum ad unwanted attention (see the BELIEVING clause of my repeal).

[Great Algerstonia]

It is a wholly redundant resolution. If Condemn Macedon can be repealed, so can this.

[Refuge Isle]

If you admit that SC#246 would not be destroyed by virtue of its being repealed, then why do you believe that SC#246 can no longer serve "as a record of what was accomplished by the SC" if it is repealed? By that metric, nothing the Security Council passes should ever be repealed for any reason, ever.

Selectively cutting out things that I've said does leave these questions doesn't it?

Previous commenters have expressed support to "wipe this out from the records", that's not how it works. The records don't delete. However, as far as active resolutions go, the status quo is that the resolution is operational. It remains right where we left it, doing the thing it was intended to do. Liberations are removed when it is prudent for them to be removed. For passwords to be applied, for refounds to take place, for the return of a founder that can ensure a region's safety.

You have not presented an argument about why it should be taken down. You have not demonstrated what harm it causes. You have not demonstrated the utility or benefit of your proposal. So I can only assume the expected utility is chasing after another ill-advised opportunistic manoeuvrer, as so many of your threads of late have been.

My own personal opinion, on top of these empirical observations, is that the resolution should remain to serve as a testament of success and warning to others.

Five people (explicitly) opposed Praetor's repeal attempt. One said she would support a better-written version; one thought it should remain as "a historical note" (see above); the other three were opposed as per argumentum ad unwanted attention (see the BELIEVING clause of my repeal).

And? Glad to see we're in agreement.

It is a wholly redundant resolution. If Condemn Macedon can be repealed, so can this.

Even the author of that repeal admits it was a mistake.

[Great Algerstonia]

That doesn't change the fact that Nazi Europa is a non-existent reason. I do nazi any region by that name anymore . So the condemnation for the non-existent region should be repealed.

[WayNeacTia]

Seeing as how this is now the lowest possible hanging fruit, it should come as a surprise to absolutely no one that it would be Tin trying to repeal it.

Opposed.