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[Missed Quorum] Repeal: Declaration on Hippopotamuses

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=507918

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[Missed Quorum] Repeal: Declaration on Hippopotamuses

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:57 pm
by Tsaivao
Delegate Manhu Sentai Laogai hands over a shriveled piece of toilet paper with (perhaps literal) chicken scratch written all over it. He proudly wipes his wings as his assistant gives him a dismayed look. Pensively, the assistant slowly reads aloud Delegate Manhu's work, eyeing the rest of the assembly as his face went red from embarrassment as he himself was barely literate to normal text, let alone Manhu's awful handwriting.

The World Assembly,

Applauding the gall and reckless abandon of the intentions behind the target resolution,

Noting however that a qualitative judgement on size cannot be established without a proper reference frame,

Elaborating that many things can be classified as "very large" when compared to other smaller things. Planets, stars, moons, galaxies, nebulous hydrogen clouds, and black holes can all be adequately measured in volume, length, and/or mass to be larger than a hippopotamus,

Further Elaborating that even in the realm of animals, many creatures across the multiverse in various time periods similarly dwarf hippopotamuses. Examples include blue whales, who can grow on average to twenty-five meters in length with a mass of one-hundred ten metric tons, and giraffes, who can grow to be three times as tall as the hippopotamus.

Philosophizing that due to the lack of a categorical imperative, it is impossible to verify if mass, length, width, or depth are even qualitative values that exist outside of a phenomenal understanding of the universe, or even if it makes sense to measure such values in the first place,

Further noting that knowing the terminology of an animal or how dangerous it is are not necessary for the broader understanding of the concept of size,

Disapproving of clause 2 making an unusual and unnecessary discrimination towards Pygmy Hippopotamuses, going beyond notion of size and derogatorily stating they are "no 'true' Hippo,"

Confused as many nations across the multiverse have zero idea what a hippopotamus even is,

Acknowledging that the word hippopottamus is truly difficult for many to spell, and advises the World Assembly to consider avoiding future references to hipoptmuses and hippopoopotomus-related legislature,

This resolution hereby repeals SC Resolution #361: Declaration on Hippopotamuses.


The World Assembly,

Applauding the gall and reckless abandon of the intentions behind the target resolution,

Noting however that a qualitative judgement on size cannot be established without a proper reference frame,

Elaborating that many things can be classified as "very large" within the scope of the universe when compared to other smaller things, as planets, stars, moons, galaxies, nebulous hydrogen clouds, and black holes can all be adequately measured in volume, length, and/or mass to be larger than a hippopotamus,

Further Elaborating that even in the realm of animals, many creatures across the multiverse in various time periods similarly dwarf hippopotamuses even within the universe hippopotamuses typically occupy. Examples include blue whales, who can grow on average to twenty-five meters in length with a mass of one-hundred ten metric tons, and giraffes, who can grow to be three times as tall as the hippopotamus.

Philosophizing that due to the lack of a categorical imperative, it is impossible to verify if mass, length, width, or depth are even qualitative values that exist outside of a phenomenal understanding of the universe, or even if it makes sense to measure such values in the first place,

Further noting that knowing the terminology of an animal or how dangerous it is are not necessary for the broader understanding of the concept of size,

Disapproving of clause 2 making an unusual and unnecessary discrimination towards Pygmy Hippopotamuses, going beyond notion of size and derogatorily stating they are "no 'true' Hippo,"

Confused as many nations across the multiverse have zero idea what a hippopotamus even is,

Acknowledging that the word hippopottamus is truly difficult for many to spell, and advises the World Assembly to consider avoiding future references to hipoptmuses and hippopoopotomus-related legislature,

This resolution hereby repeals SC Resolution #361: Declaration on Hippopotamuses.


The World Assembly,

Applauding the gall and reckless abandon of the intentions behind the target resolution,

Noting however that a qualitative judgement on size cannot be established without a proper reference frame,

Elaborating that many things can be classified as "very large" within the scope of the universe when compared to other smaller things, as planets, stars, moons, galaxies, nebulous hydrogen clouds, and black holes can all be adequately measured in volume, length, and/or mass to be larger than a hippopotamus,

Further Elaborating that even in the realm of animals, many creatures across the multiverse in various time periods similarly dwarf hippopotamuses, including but not limited to: whales, elephants, giraffes, and megalodons. This means that the hippopotamus is, at best, average in size and mass.

Philosophizing that due to the lack of a categorical imperative, it is impossible to verify if mass, length, width, or depth are even qualitative values that exist outside of a phenomenal understanding of the universe, or even if it makes sense to measure such values in the first place,

Further noting that knowing the terminology of an animal or how dangerous it is are not necessary for the broader understanding of the concept of size,

Disapproving of clause 2 making an unusual and unnecessary discrimination towards Pygmy Hippopotamuses, going beyond notion of size and derogatorily stating they are "no 'true' Hippo,"

Confused as many nations across the multiverse have zero idea what a hippopotamus even is,

This resolution hereby repeals SC Resolution [number]: Declaration on Hippopotamuses.


The World Assembly,

Applauding the gall and reckless abandon of the intentions behind the target resolution,

Noting however that a qualitative judgement on size cannot be established without a proper reference frame,

Elaborating that many things can be classified as "very large" within the scope of the universe when compared to other smaller things, as planets, stars, moons, galaxies, nebulous hydrogen clouds, and black holes can all be adequately measured in volume, length, and/or mass to be larger than a hippopotamus

Philosophizing that due to the lack of a categorical imperative, it is impossible to verify if mass, length, width, or depth are even qualitative values that exist outside of a phenomenal understanding of the universe, or even if it makes sense to measure such values in the first place,

Further noting that knowing the terminology of an animal or how dangerous it is are not necessary for the broader understanding of the concept of size,

Confused as many nations across the multiverse have zero idea what a hippopotamus even is,

This resolution hereby repeals SC Resolution [number]: Declaration on Hippopotamuses.


OOC: In case it isn't clear, I'm hyperbolizing my nation's disgust for DoH and I applaud Bears Armed for making me have a good laugh, but I do still think this is at least a decent repeal in the light-hearted spirit of the target.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:07 pm
by The Hazar Amisnery
1. You cant repeal something that hasn't even passed yet

2. The declaration says that hippopotamus's are very large which anyone could visualise and the other measurements are supporting this idea. The author was referencing just hippos, not black holes or hydrogen clouds.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:08 pm
by Bhang Bhang Duc
How can you write this? My Ambassador squashed you with a wormhole and a hippo to refute your argument.

The Hazar Amisnery wrote:1. You cant repeal something that hasn't even passed yet

2. The declaration says that hippopotamus's are very large which anyone could visualise and the other measurements are supporting this idea. The author was referencing just hippos, not black holes or hydrogen clouds.

OOC: Yes, but they can draft a repeal in case it passes. As for the rest of your argument it appears you could do with a sense of humour transplant.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:14 pm
by Tsaivao
The Hazar Amisnery wrote:1. You cant repeal something that hasn't even passed yet

2. The declaration says that hippopotamus's are very large which anyone could visualise and the other measurements are supporting this idea. The author was referencing just hippos, not black holes or hydrogen clouds.

1. Actually you can, it's common practice to prepare a repeal draft for legislation that hasn't passed yet, just look at all of the (poor-quality) repeal attempts for some more recent GA resolutions like Ban on Conversion Therapy

2. My point is that the target resolution does not give us a frame of reference for which to compare, thus it is unspecified. A hippopotamus is very small when compared to those other things, thereby making the resolution inaccurate

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:How can you write this? My Ambassador squashed you with a wormhole and a hippo to refute your argument.


Thank you for your counterargument, you make some very strong points! However, I must unfortunately use my "no u" defense.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:57 pm
by Outer Sparta
Why don't you make a declaration on rhinos as a replacement?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:05 pm
by Kurogasa
Outer Sparta wrote:Why don't you make a declaration on rhinos as a replacement?


on elephants, you see...they are way larger than hippos.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:10 pm
by Imperial Rifta
Kurogasa wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Why don't you make a declaration on rhinos as a replacement?


on elephants, you see...they are way larger than hippos.

Why not blue whales?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:27 pm
by Tsaivao
Outer Sparta wrote:Why don't you make a declaration on rhinos as a replacement?

Kurogasa wrote:on elephants, you see...they are way larger than hippos.

Imperial Rifta wrote:Why not blue whales?


Delegate Manhu straightens up, looking the other delegates rather uncomfortably in the eyes, as strange music emanated through the debate chamber. "Yes, I indeed could make a replacement for any of these others, but what would be the point? Compared to the vastness of spacetime, our understanding of the tiny bubble that we inhabit within our little circles, wouldn't the vastness of infinity always seem so... so much bigger? Who can truly be considered large, when we are all but specks in a microscopic chasm of infinity? Can anything be considered big after all? Does the universe even really care how long a rhino is, or how massive a whale is, or how large a star is?"

Manhu took a breath, "The truth is that we are all just small, but... there is a catch. Size does not have any bearing on infinity; any number divided by infinity is practically zero, but this means that small is not anything either! Furthermore, in the breadth of the universe, all your biggest problems and worries, all your deepest anxieties and worries about the state of the world and our existence in this life is just as small. And we should take comfort in that, because then we can all be very, very large."

Manhu let the chamber sit on that before saying with finality, "And as always... thanks for watching."

OOC: Might do replacement, idk, depends how I feel on it later

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:35 am
by Bears Armed Mission
Tsaivao wrote:2. My point is that the target resolution does not give us a frame of reference for which to compare, thus it is unspecified. A hippopotamus is very small when compared to those other things, thereby making the resolution inaccurate

"The declaration's preamble explains that the context is the typical sizes of different kinds of animals; That should provide a reasonable frame of reference for most governments, especially in conjunction with the actual measurements cited in the final clause."

Outer Sparta wrote:Why don't you make a declaration on rhinos as a replacement?

Kurogasa wrote:on elephants, you see...they are way larger than hippos.

Imperial Rifta wrote:Why not blue whales?


"Nothing in our proposed Declaration would block the introduction of new legislation on such topics, so its repeal would not be a prerequisite for those."

Urratharra BlueForest,
Voice for Security Council matters,
Bears Armed Mission at the W.A. .

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:38 am
by Outer Sparta
Tsaivao wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Why don't you make a declaration on rhinos as a replacement?

Kurogasa wrote:on elephants, you see...they are way larger than hippos.

Imperial Rifta wrote:Why not blue whales?


Delegate Manhu straightens up, looking the other delegates rather uncomfortably in the eyes, as strange music emanated through the debate chamber. "Yes, I indeed could make a replacement for any of these others, but what would be the point? Compared to the vastness of spacetime, our understanding of the tiny bubble that we inhabit within our little circles, wouldn't the vastness of infinity always seem so... so much bigger? Who can truly be considered large, when we are all but specks in a microscopic chasm of infinity? Can anything be considered big after all? Does the universe even really care how long a rhino is, or how massive a whale is, or how large a star is?"

Manhu took a breath, "The truth is that we are all just small, but... there is a catch. Size does not have any bearing on infinity; any number divided by infinity is practically zero, but this means that small is not anything either! Furthermore, in the breadth of the universe, all your biggest problems and worries, all your deepest anxieties and worries about the state of the world and our existence in this life is just as small. And we should take comfort in that, because then we can all be very, very large."

Manhu let the chamber sit on that before saying with finality, "And as always... thanks for watching."

OOC: Might do replacement, idk, depends how I feel on it later

If we really want to go big, why not the Hercules–Corona Borealis Great Wall (or in general, a galaxy supercluster)? It spans ten billion light years in length and is the largest ever object discovered in the universe!

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:58 am
by Tsaivao
"It seems that this terrible, unlawful, despicable, good-smelling proposal is going to pass at the projected rate. I will have to double down to prevent such a declaration from surviving," Manhu mused, stroking his beak.

"But what if... I add the point about excluding pygmy hippos as part of the repeal? Hoho, delightfully devilish, Manhu!"

Bears Armed Mission wrote:
Tsaivao wrote:2. My point is that the target resolution does not give us a frame of reference for which to compare, thus it is unspecified. A hippopotamus is very small when compared to those other things, thereby making the resolution inaccurate

"The declaration's preamble explains that the context is the typical sizes of different kinds of animals; That should provide a reasonable frame of reference for most governments, especially in conjunction with the actual measurements cited in the final clause."

Outer Sparta wrote:Why don't you make a declaration on rhinos as a replacement?

Kurogasa wrote:on elephants, you see...they are way larger than hippos.

Imperial Rifta wrote:Why not blue whales?


"Nothing in our proposed Declaration would block the introduction of new legislation on such topics, so its repeal would not be a prerequisite for those."

Urratharra BlueForest,
Voice for Security Council matters,
Bears Armed Mission at the W.A. .


"Even in.the context of other animals, could one say hippos are very large? Blue whales, orcas, elephants, giraffes, rhinos, and other such creatures can match or dwarf a hippo. What reason would a nation of whales have to believe that hippos are large? It enforces a very narrow perspective, which is why I will not stand for it! I will not!"

Manhu's aides collectively sighed. One of them excused himself and went into the hallway to drink.

Manhu turned to the remaining aide. "Start on the next draft, we will have it done by today."

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:38 pm
by Honeydewistania
If it came to it, I will fully support this repeal over any others. Repeals in the spirit of a joke resolution are infinitely better than party poopers.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:06 am
by Sylh Alanor
Full support, Delegate.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:23 am
by WayNeacTia
Tsaivao wrote:2. My point is that the target resolution does not give us a frame of reference for which to compare, thus it is unspecified. A hippopotamus is very small when compared to those other things, thereby making the resolution inaccurate

So? Pass another declaration that gives us a frame a reference to compare to, building upon this one. There is no house of cards rule in the Security Council. This way, everyone wins.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:05 am
by Tsaivao
Second draft is up, I've added points regarding the unnecessary and biased treatment of Pygmy Hippos as well as noting that many other animals can be sufficiently larger than hippos.

Wayneactia wrote:
Tsaivao wrote:2. My point is that the target resolution does not give us a frame of reference for which to compare, thus it is unspecified. A hippopotamus is very small when compared to those other things, thereby making the resolution inaccurate

So? Pass another declaration that gives us a frame a reference to compare to, building upon this one. There is no house of cards rule in the Security Council. This way, everyone wins.

Promoting bad practice just because there's not a rule on it is probably a bad idea...

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:57 pm
by Bodobol
Further Elaborating that even in the realm of animals, many creatures across the multiverse in various time periods similarly dwarf hippopotamuses, including but not limited to: whales, elephants, giraffes, and megalodons. This means that the hippopotamus is, at best, average in size and mass.


"This could use some refinement. Just as many nations across the multiverse have no idea what a hippopotamus is, many don't understand the concept of whales, giraffes, etc. It's useful to have these comparisons, but we need to introduce the delegates to the concepts of these animals. It's also a bit disingenuous to say that hippos are average in size and mass, when they are typically classified as megafauna and do dwarf the vast majority of species on their native planet. How about something along the following lines for this clause?"

Further Elaborating that even in the realm of animals, many creatures across the multiverse in various time periods similarly dwarf hippopotamuses. Examples include the blue whale, which can grow to a length of 33 meters and a weight of 130 tonnes, and giraffes, whose typical height of five-to-six meters is three times that of the lowly hippopotamus, and therefore the hippopotamus's size alone does not merit a Declaration,


"Additionally, we would suggest the addition of the following clause:"

Acknowledging that hippotomous is generally regarded as a difficult word to spell, and believing that the World Assembly would benefit from a future absence of all hippopopos and hipotonous-related discussion,


-Harg Gifodobol
Bodoboli Ambassador to the Security Council

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:06 pm
by WayNeacTia
Tsaivao wrote:Second draft is up, I've added points regarding the unnecessary and biased treatment of Pygmy Hippos as well as noting that many other animals can be sufficiently larger than hippos.

Wayneactia wrote:So? Pass another declaration that gives us a frame a reference to compare to, building upon this one. There is no house of cards rule in the Security Council. This way, everyone wins.

Promoting bad practice just because there's not a rule on it is probably a bad idea...

How is it a bad practice? We have had condemnations built upon the backs of liberations.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:16 pm
by Thessalunya
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:OOC: Yes, but they can draft a repeal in case it passes. As for the rest of your argument it appears you could do with a sense of humour transplant.

You forget what the target audience for this game is.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:52 am
by Tsaivao
Bodobol wrote:
Further Elaborating that even in the realm of animals, many creatures across the multiverse in various time periods similarly dwarf hippopotamuses, including but not limited to: whales, elephants, giraffes, and megalodons. This means that the hippopotamus is, at best, average in size and mass.


"This could use some refinement. Just as many nations across the multiverse have no idea what a hippopotamus is, many don't understand the concept of whales, giraffes, etc. It's useful to have these comparisons, but we need to introduce the delegates to the concepts of these animals. It's also a bit disingenuous to say that hippos are average in size and mass, when they are typically classified as megafauna and do dwarf the vast majority of species on their native planet. How about something along the following lines for this clause?"

Further Elaborating that even in the realm of animals, many creatures across the multiverse in various time periods similarly dwarf hippopotamuses. Examples include the blue whale, which can grow to a length of 33 meters and a weight of 130 tonnes, and giraffes, whose typical height of five-to-six meters is three times that of the lowly hippopotamus, and therefore the hippopotamus's size alone does not merit a Declaration,


"You have a good eye, ambassador," Manhu conceded, reading over his notes and feeling a bit more sunken after reading the blitheringly obvious contradiction. "I uh... meant to put that there, yes!" In his mind, he started to experience some slight panic. "I-In fact we will... make the appropriate adjustments for you, just to prove how intentional that was!"

His aide looked at him sideways. Was he high off swamper drugs today?

"Additionally, we would suggest the addition of the following clause:"

Acknowledging that hippotomous is generally regarded as a difficult word to spell, and believing that the World Assembly would benefit from a future absence of all hippopopos and hipotonous-related discussion,


OOC: Okay that made me laugh, I'm definitely willing to put that in lmao. If you want a co-author for that beautiful line let me know.

Wayneactia wrote:
Tsaivao wrote:Second draft is up, I've added points regarding the unnecessary and biased treatment of Pygmy Hippos as well as noting that many other animals can be sufficiently larger than hippos.


Promoting bad practice just because there's not a rule on it is probably a bad idea...

How is it a bad practice? We have had condemnations built upon the backs of liberations.


OOC: Well, for one, my goal isn't to add on to the previous legislature but to repeal it entirely (and do so in a way that tries to maintain some aspect of the humor rather than flatly denying it). To my understanding these declarations are kind of like GA resolutions, and I'm not used to there not being a rule against house of cards. I think this would make a good discussion thread elsewhere though because I'm curious if such a rule needs to be made or not.

In any case, next draft coming frighteningly fast.

EDIT: DRAFT 3 IS HEEEEERE, DRAFT 3 IS HEEEEEEEEERE!! PROMISES MADE, PROMISES DELIVEEEEEEEERED!!! DRAAAAAAAAAAAAAFT THREEEEE IS HEEEEEEEEEEEEERE

Ahem... I will wait a few more days for further feedback before submitting

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:24 pm
by The Python
Against... hippos are too large an issue to be repealed from the SC!

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:57 pm
by Tsaivao
I'm gonna need some endorsements evidently

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:58 pm
by Minskiev
Love that this is a thing.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:01 pm
by Great Algerstonia
Wasn't able to give feedback from this because a hippopotamus crushed all of my devices by stepping on them, writing on a smart fridge screen rn. Anyways, opposed

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:48 pm
by Tsaivao
Delegate Manhu flourishes his wings and bows. "Our noble legislature has been put onto display to garner support from delegates like you. Please consider giving this the support necessary to succeed, and to prevent the narrow-minded singular perspective that is the target resolutions. For, you see, even the hippopotamus can be small, if it so chooses to..."

Manhu's aide rolled his eyes as the former went off on another philosophical tirade.

Great Algerstonia wrote:Wasn't able to give feedback from this because a hippopotamus crushed all of my devices by stepping on them, writing on a smart fridge screen rn. Anyways, opposed


Manhu shuddered. "Smart fridge?? What are you, making an artificial intelligence for an ice box?! You mammals are so strange..."

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:59 pm
by Vikanias
Fully opposed, A Hippo is holding me at gun point to oppose please send HELP
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