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[DRAFT] Commend Libertanny

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Wymondham
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Postby Wymondham » Sat May 29, 2021 6:20 am

As it stands, the proposal does not make the case that Libertanny is worthy of commendation. There is quite possibly a case to be had they are, but as of right now the proposal is merely a laundry list of generic GCR delegate achievements, a mention of some graphic design work for one festival, and praising an N-Day alliance which collapsed in a few hours. Whatever argument there potentially is for the view that Libertanny is commendable, this proposal is currently not the one making it. A complete rewrite is needed to even consider approaching the threshold for what is commendable by the SC.
Last edited by Wymondham on Sat May 29, 2021 6:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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LollerLand
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Postby LollerLand » Sat May 29, 2021 12:33 pm

I agree with Wym here. Lib is potentially a worthy nominee. But this draft needs to be rewritten. You should also try and add in more about his contributions to the resistance against the coup and his contributions before the coup, if any. And considering that Paradoxical now has an identity of its own, it also probably deserves a clause of its own.
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The Python
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Postby The Python » Sat May 29, 2021 12:39 pm

Vamperiall wrote:The improvement of diplomatic relations with the imperialist sphere, especially with Balder and The Land of Kings and Emperors, where with the latter Non-Aggression Pact and Diplomatic Recognition was signed,

Imperialists :unsure: painting imps in a positive light might cause some defenders to vote against, so possibly get rid of this entirely.

Vamperiall wrote:as well as sending pilers to defend Warzone Asia after receiving threats from defender figure Tim Stark. This resulted in EPSA being voted in as ‘Friendly Military of 2020’ in the Warzone Awards,

Get rid of "defender figure Tim Stark" probably, not to defend Tim's action/s but painting a big defender in a negative light might also incite defenders/TGW to vote against.
Last edited by The Python on Sat May 29, 2021 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hulldom
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Postby Hulldom » Sat May 29, 2021 8:59 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:
Hulldom wrote:Almost certainly not good enough in its present form, but you could uhh at least mention Serge’s authorship of Commend Bachtendekuppen?

Why? It wasn’t even a good resolution. I don’t think adding a resolution in just because is a good idea

Diversity of things they’ve done more or less. Though I will say: that doesn’t/wouldn’t tip the scale for me in favor of the current res.
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Vamperiall
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Postby Vamperiall » Sun May 30, 2021 3:01 am

Honeydewistania wrote:we out here commending every GCR delegate now


Serge deserves a commendation! They developed the region in so many ways, as well as the outer NS community!

Cormactopia Prime wrote:What about any of this goes beyond normal participation in a GCR and a normal term as a GCR Delegate?


Libertanny was constantly committed to the region. Maybe you need a better feeder delegate to compare them to?

Great Algerstonia wrote:Valsora was created long before Libertanny's Delegacy. It was made while Fedele was Delegate.

Also, there is no official RMB map for The East Pacific RMB Roleplay, iirc. We're quite decentralized. Theres multiple maps people play on. Valsora is considered the main map, however


Thanks for this point Alger, will fix.

Minskiev wrote:I'm not very read up on the Consortium but isn't that in sort of a poor state now? Did it ever do anything?

Also,

The strengthening of relations between The East Pacific with both 10000 Islands and Europeia simultaneously, further developing The East Pacific’s diplomatic ability,
seems very fluffy. Wow! Simultaneously?! Maybe elaborate on this or remove it entirely, this doesn't seem too notable to me.


The Consortium is a work in progress. It exists within the minds of the members, and is an agreement that deserves to be mentioned. Lib laid the foundations for the Consortium to be built on. It's somewhat stalled, sure, but it exists as an idea and is still being developed.

Sure, it is fluffy, but that's exactly what happened. Since XKI and Euro are opposites, and strengthening relations with both at the same is difficult FA-ly, I think that's worth having.

Great Algerstonia wrote:Additionally I would recommend changing "Tim" to the nation name "Tim Stark".


Aye, thanks Alger.

Refuge Isle wrote:Construction aside, the target is not commendable at this time.


I think it has some merit. I think I can make this work with some rewrites.

Varanius wrote:I can’t believe I’m saying this but I think I’d honestly prefer another defender commendation. Anyways, let’s go down the list!

Vamperiall wrote:
  1. Foundation of Small Magisterium Cafeterium, a small bloc of nations that united to oppose then-Delegate Fedele and embody general apathy within The East Pacific. This body then played an important part in fighting the coup attempt and rebuilding The East Pacific post-coup, alongside with improving the laws of The East Pacific,
Cool, I’m not much familiar with TEP at the time, what contributions were those?

  • The development of UCR friendships through outreach programs, which has diminished the notion of GCR supremacy in The East Pacific,
  • Wow, UCR relations. I didn’t even know those were possible.

    Appreciating Libertanny’s contribution to the internal affairs of The East Pacific during its Delegacy:
    1. Coordinating the three Paradoxical games events, where each event gathered at least 200 nations and promoted regional activity,
    Culture. Hey cool! When is Bran getting commended by chance?

  • The creation of the REWARD program, which boosted The East Pacific’s endorsement count to astronomical levels and increased overall interest and activity in the World Assembly within The East Pacific,
  • I mean…sure endorsements are nice I guess?

  • Creation of the first release of Valsora, official map of The East Pacific RMB, which developed the regional roleplay of The East Pacific,
  • Alger’s already gotten to this.
  • The restructuring of the World Assembly Affairs branch, which allowed for East Pacifican citizens to vote and interact with the World Assembly Resolution voting processes.
  • A WA affairs branch? I’m glad he brought TEP into the 21st century!



    1. The creation of the Consortium, an interregional coalition of Thaecia, Free Nations Region, The East Pacific, Alstroemerian Commonwealths, Force and the Kingdom of Great Britain, which has lead to diplomatic and cultural developments,
    A coalition that has done what exactly? Certainly nothing where I can see.
  • Assisting in the formation of the ATOMIC coalition for N-Day, including 21st Century Rome, Force, Alstroemerian Commonwealths, The Labyrinth, Laranium, Lorania, Southfield, Phoenix Partners, Thaecia, The Democratic Republic, The East Pacific, The Free Nations Region, The Kingdom of Great Britain, Wintercrest and Wintreath, which scored well on N-Day,
  • N-Day alliance? Even better, one that notably got absolutely crushed while Potato came back.
  • The strengthening of relations between The East Pacific with both 10000 Islands and Europeia simultaneously, further developing The East Pacific’s diplomatic ability,
  • I’m unaware, were they not already allies? If not, seems like something that should be added yeah?
  • The creation of treaties with the The Union of Democratic States, the Free Nations Region and Thaecia, drawing larger UCRs closer,
  • Should I just start linking UCR/GCR treaties or can I save myself the time?
  • The improvement of diplomatic relations with the imperialist sphere, especially with Balder and The Land of Kings and Emperors, where with the latter Non-Aggression Pact and Diplomatic Recognition was signed,
  • Now this is actually almost something. Can we commend Kaz for the Euro/NPO NAP too?
  • The coordination of the Liberation of South Pacific with the Phoenix Flock Fleet, which involved one of the highest amounts of East Pacific troops in history, that being 51 nations.
  • Sorry, wasn’t this mainly Atlae and Phoenix? Do correct me if I’m wrong.
  • The support of smaller allies, such as Warzone Asia, where Libertanny ordered EPSA to pile in the region to ensure that Jean Rowe holds the record of longest serving Delegate, as well as sending pilers to defend Warzone Asia after receiving threats from defender figure Tim. This resulted in EPSA being voted in as ‘Friendly Military of 2020’ in the Warzone Awards,
  • Piling on a Warzone. At the same time as UCR treaties and losing at N-Day? What a busy schedule.
    Accrediting Libertanny’s help in co-organization of NationStates Great Exhibition by designing the most recent logo and colour pallete, developing the Discord server of NSGE, and giving a lecture on graphic design.
    Uhh cool I guess. Glad he likes art?
    All in all, I really don’t think this is the best target to pursue a commendation for. I definitely didn’t address every line, but I really don’t see how he stands out compared to other GCR delegates? He did some things sure, but he was hardly record-breaking.


    Always happy for your input, puppy kicker.
    1. Do I need to explain the need for people to rebuild a region after an attempted coup?

    2. Condescending as always! People (wider NS and some GPers) seem to have an idea of GCR supremacy. Lib diminished this through UCR outreach.

    3. Couldn't tell you.

    4. Endorsements are good! TEP was (iirc) one of the feeders with the smallest endocount before Lib took over.

    5. I mean, it's not like citizens had a direct line of communication to the delegate to give their two cents before Lib took over. Maybe they did! But their restructuring of the WA Ministry helped formalise the process.


    Outer Sparta wrote:If you're going for a GCR delegate commendation, they have to do above and beyond. Currently, I don't see enough commendable qualities from Libertanny, but it is a well-written draft.

    Elaborate on why Libertanny's achievements justify a commendation, especially their contributions to TEP society.


    Thank you for the feedback, I guess it's back to the drawing board for now.

    Altmoras wrote:I'm not well versed in Libertanny's accomplishments or TEP in general so I'm not going to comment on most of the clauses. That said.

    Nobody should be getting commended for ATOMIC, it disbanded and merged into the AA within hours. It's remarkable only for the magnitude of its failure. The only productive thing it accomplished was giving Horsemen a little too much confidence in how easy it was to break factions with shock and awe.


    It was a mighty big faction though. It could have survived, but the Horsemen had their stronky pants on this year.

    Noble Titans wrote:I like Libertanny for sure! Would I approve this to be pushed for a vote? No mainly because GCRs are cutting out some of the delegates work already with recruitment, and fresh faces. Give me more than they were Delegate of TEP. If that’s the case we should just give every GCR Delegate a commendation, including the Warzone ones to! To be fair though; One Small Island deserves a commendation more if we talking about GCR or any kind of Delegate!


    They were delegate of TEP, they helped coordinate massive operations, they helped revive TEP after a coup attempt (Lib was FA Minister in the Marrabuk Administration).

    Cormactopia Prime wrote:All of the above doesn't seem to be an auspicious beginning for this proposal.


    :-D we'll see Cormac <3

    Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
    Tinhampton wrote:Are references to "Discord server[s]" any more legal than references to (offsite) forums are? :P

    No, they’re illegal (clearly the electronic entity) as is the mention of roleplay.

    Edit: I suspect UCR may be illegal as well seeing as it stands for User Created Region. However, you would need a Mod ruling on that.

    Overall the writing for a first time draft is of good quality. The content, on the other hand, is not so good. There are lots of areas, already pointed out, that need to be addressed if this is going to be submitted.


    I'll do some editing so it doesnt break the law as much.Thanks for pointing that out for me!

    Bears Armed wrote:I'm fairly sure that the reference to "roleplay" is also illegal, and have doubts about the "to pile in" as well.


    Ah, okay. I'll fix that as well.

    Zukchiva wrote:A lot of people said what needs to be said.

    I do think there's a case for Libertanny here, but obviously I'm biased. Regardless, some comments:

    Streamlining The East Pacific's foreign affairs department by creating region spheres, and developing the Inner Circle of Foreign Affairs, which trained nations in foreign affairs, most notably Zukchiva, who succeeded Libertanny in the Delegacy, as well as allowed citizens to have a much bigger impact on deciding foreign affairs matters,
    I get the intent on this clause, but I would personally focus less on the impacts on the IC-FA and more about the structure itself, and how it allows for more collective decisions and puts much less a burden on the Minister.

    I definetly feel it should be mentioned.

    The restructuring of the EPNS and repeal of the EPNS Act, which set the foundations for the success of the current Ministry of Information.
    Libertanny did a bit more than this, so I would say this should be more descriptive. How did Libertanny restructure EPNS (as a rhetorical question)?

    Could add something about how the EPNS Act's restrictiveness, and Lib's repeal of it, helped make EPNS more flexible. Doesn't warrant its own clause but can be included in this EPNS clause itself.

    Coordinating the three Paradoxical games events, where each event gathered at least 200 nations and promoted regional activity,
    I do not believe this does Paradoxical justice.

    Paradoxical is a pretty large festival open to all, and I know that all three iterations have been astoundingly popular with around a week of events celebrating Paradoxical's games. Additionally, while sometimes TEP hosted it, it is in reality not something ran by TEP but ran by Libertanny independently of the region. Lib is basically the head organizer. I would thus make Paradoxical its own clause, separate from any of the lists. Paradoxical is definetly a unique venture and would be noteworthy in any commend.

    Creation of the first release of Valsora, official map of The East Pacific RMB, which developed the regional roleplay of The East Pacific,
    As Alger said, Valsora is one of many maps. The de facto main map indeed, but one of many.

    Also, while it is true that Libertanny created the map itself, and worked with the Map Council to develop a lot of its initial concepts, it was eventually taken over (with the Council's permission) by Nova-Columbia (another Councillor), who has owned the map for around two years now and is really the sole person responsible for a lot of its development following its initial stages in the Council.

    I do think Valsora's creation deserves a mention as it probably wouldn't exist the way it does if Libertanny didn't play a strong role in it as Councillor, but the history of the map should be kept in mind.

    The restructuring of the World Assembly Affairs branch, which allowed for East Pacifican citizens to vote and interact with the World Assembly Resolution voting processes.
    This should mention more about Libertanny giving MoWAA more due importance in the regional government compared to past Delegates. Both by making it its own Chief Ministry (and thus splitting it from the portfolio of the Chief Minister of Regional Affairs), and by following the Ministry's vote and thus voting in a more informed manner.

    Honestly not sure if this should be included. Maybe combine this clause with the REWARD clause and state that Libertanny helped modernize TEP's WA practices from the archaic methods of old, allowing for heightened WA participation in the region. Then you can mention the restructuring of MoWAA and the creation of REWARD as examples.

    The creation of the Consortium, an interregional coalition of Thaecia, Free Nations Region, The East Pacific, Alstroemerian Commonwealths, Force and the Kingdom of Great Britain, which has lead to diplomatic and cultural developments,
    As others have said I wouldn't include this. Not because the Consortium hasn't done anything (it has hosted a few festivals and heightened cooperation between individual member regions for sure), but because it's still being set-up.

    The strengthening of relations between The East Pacific with both 10000 Islands and Europeia simultaneously, further developing The East Pacific’s diplomatic ability,
    The creation of treaties with the The Union of Democratic States, the Free Nations Region and Thaecia, drawing larger UCRs closer,
    The improvement of diplomatic relations with the imperialist sphere, especially with Balder and The Land of Kings and Emperors, where with the latter Non-Aggression Pact and Diplomatic Recognition was signed,
    I feel like this can be combined into one "this nation helped form fruitful alliances with [insert region examples]"

    That being said, I see no reason not to mention this. It's pretty standard for most commended GCR & UCR Delegates to discuss this type of stuff, and Libertanny really helped TEP form a network of allies it can rely on and cooperate with.

    The coordination of the Liberation of South Pacific with the Phoenix Flock Fleet, which involved one of the highest amounts of East Pacific troops in history, that being 51 nations.
    Would be more specific here. It is true that Libertanny, along with Atlae, helped garner a bunch of troops for the liberation attempt. I remember specifically Libertanny making a whole bunch of announcements and promising ranks to incentive people to come to the region's defense.

    Should be noted that this is an attempted liberation. It didn't succeed and that's important to note regardless.

    The support of smaller allies, such as Warzone Asia, where Libertanny ordered EPSA to pile in the region to ensure that Jean Rowe holds the record of longest serving Delegate, as well as sending pilers to defend Warzone Asia after receiving threats from defender figure Tim Stark. This resulted in EPSA being voted in as ‘Friendly Military of 2020’ in the Warzone Awards,
    Not commendable, IMO. You would expect allies to defend allies. :p


    Thanks Zuk for your input.

    1. yes! I do agree that embodies the Inner Circle. I can fix that.

    2. I'll find some more info on the EPNS act and its affects.

    3. I wasn't aware of how big Paradoxical was, but yeah thanks I can work on that. I'll do some asking around. Maybe that describes how Lib helped outside of TEP?

    4. Ah! That makes sense. I can edit that to make sure Lib is credited properly for their involvement.

    5. Yeah that would make more sense, the WAA clause is important and needs to be fixed.

    6. Ah yes I see. Perhaps mentioning the laying of the foundations for it?

    7. Will rework the FA bit :P

    8. So Lib was a main part of it? But it didnt quite work. I'll add that.

    9. Will remove
    Nova Vandalia wrote:
    Vamperiall wrote:Recognising Libertanny’s contribution to the foreign affairs of the East Pacific during its Delegacy:
    The creation of the Consortium, an interregional coalition of Thaecia, Free Nations Region, The East Pacific, Alstroemerian Commonwealths, Force and the Kingdom of Great Britain, which has lead to diplomatic and cultural developments,


    Just noticed a minor link error that needs corrected, I think you meant for it to link you to The Kingdom of Great Britain and not Kingdom of Great Britain same thing with The Free Nations Region and Free Nations Region


    Thank you! I'll fix that as well!
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    Flanderlion
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    Postby Flanderlion » Sun May 30, 2021 3:11 am

    Vamperiall wrote:4. Endorsements are good! TEP was (iirc) one of the feeders with the smallest endocount before Lib took over.


    https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1547264 this shows it was Yuno that turned TEP's endo count around. That said, I like him so I'm for.
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    Comfed
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    Postby Comfed » Sun May 30, 2021 6:28 am

    Vamperiall wrote:
    Honeydewistania wrote:we out here commending every GCR delegate now


    Serge deserves a commendation! They developed the region in so many ways, as well as the outer NS community!
    Okay, but you can say that for any half-decent GCR delegate.

    Cormactopia Prime wrote:What about any of this goes beyond normal participation in a GCR and a normal term as a GCR Delegate?


    Libertanny was constantly committed to the region. Maybe you need a better feeder delegate to compare them to?
    Every non-malicious GCR delegate is constantly committed to the region.

    Great Algerstonia wrote:Valsora was created long before Libertanny's Delegacy. It was made while Fedele was Delegate.

    Also, there is no official RMB map for The East Pacific RMB Roleplay, iirc. We're quite decentralized. Theres multiple maps people play on. Valsora is considered the main map, however


    Thanks for this point Alger, will fix.

    Minskiev wrote:I'm not very read up on the Consortium but isn't that in sort of a poor state now? Did it ever do anything?

    Also,

    seems very fluffy. Wow! Simultaneously?! Maybe elaborate on this or remove it entirely, this doesn't seem too notable to me.


    The Consortium is a work in progress. It exists within the minds of the members, and is an agreement that deserves to be mentioned. Lib laid the foundations for the Consortium to be built on. It's somewhat stalled, sure, but it exists as an idea and is still being developed.

    So if I found a region and don’t recruit for it for almost a year, would it be referenced in a commendation?

    Sure, it is fluffy, but that's exactly what happened. Since XKI and Euro are opposites, and strengthening relations with both at the same is difficult FA-ly, I think that's worth having.
    Yeah, but TEP and XKI aren’t opposites and TEP and Euro aren’t opposites. They may not like each other very much, but they’re not at war or anything.

    Great Algerstonia wrote:Additionally I would recommend changing "Tim" to the nation name "Tim Stark".


    Aye, thanks Alger.

    Refuge Isle wrote:Construction aside, the target is not commendable at this time.


    I think it has some merit. I think I can make this work with some rewrites.

    Varanius wrote:I can’t believe I’m saying this but I think I’d honestly prefer another defender commendation. Anyways, let’s go down the list!

    Cool, I’m not much familiar with TEP at the time, what contributions were those?

    Wow, UCR relations. I didn’t even know those were possible.

    Culture. Hey cool! When is Bran getting commended by chance?

    I mean…sure endorsements are nice I guess?

    Alger’s already gotten to this.
    A WA affairs branch? I’m glad he brought TEP into the 21st century!



    A coalition that has done what exactly? Certainly nothing where I can see.
    N-Day alliance? Even better, one that notably got absolutely crushed while Potato came back.
    I’m unaware, were they not already allies? If not, seems like something that should be added yeah?
    Should I just start linking UCR/GCR treaties or can I save myself the time?
    Now this is actually almost something. Can we commend Kaz for the Euro/NPO NAP too?
    Sorry, wasn’t this mainly Atlae and Phoenix? Do correct me if I’m wrong.
    Piling on a Warzone. At the same time as UCR treaties and losing at N-Day? What a busy schedule.
    Uhh cool I guess. Glad he likes art?
    All in all, I really don’t think this is the best target to pursue a commendation for. I definitely didn’t address every line, but I really don’t see how he stands out compared to other GCR delegates? He did some things sure, but he was hardly record-breaking.


    Always happy for your input, puppy kicker.
    1. Do I need to explain the need for people to rebuild a region after an attempted coup?
    You have to explain how. And the “coup” was an incredibly badly done catastrophe.

    2. Condescending as always! People (wider NS and some GPers) seem to have an idea of GCR supremacy. Lib diminished this through UCR outreach.
    Oh, really? 1. Why is that commendable? 2. UCR outreach doesn’t seem to be going anywhere...

    3. Couldn't tell you.

    4. Endorsements are good! TEP was (iirc) one of the feeders with the smallest endocount before Lib took over.

    5. I mean, it's not like citizens had a direct line of communication to the delegate to give their two cents before Lib took over. Maybe they did! But their restructuring of the WA Ministry helped formalise the process.


    Outer Sparta wrote:If you're going for a GCR delegate commendation, they have to do above and beyond. Currently, I don't see enough commendable qualities from Libertanny, but it is a well-written draft.

    Elaborate on why Libertanny's achievements justify a commendation, especially their contributions to TEP society.


    Thank you for the feedback, I guess it's back to the drawing board for now.

    Altmoras wrote:I'm not well versed in Libertanny's accomplishments or TEP in general so I'm not going to comment on most of the clauses. That said.

    Nobody should be getting commended for ATOMIC, it disbanded and merged into the AA within hours. It's remarkable only for the magnitude of its failure. The only productive thing it accomplished was giving Horsemen a little too much confidence in how easy it was to break factions with shock and awe.


    It was a mighty big faction though. It could have survived, but the Horsemen had their stronky pants on this year.
    ”But it could have done well if only the other factions weren’t better than us” translates logically to “We were worse than the other factions, so we failed.”

    Noble Titans wrote:I like Libertanny for sure! Would I approve this to be pushed for a vote? No mainly because GCRs are cutting out some of the delegates work already with recruitment, and fresh faces. Give me more than they were Delegate of TEP. If that’s the case we should just give every GCR Delegate a commendation, including the Warzone ones to! To be fair though; One Small Island deserves a commendation more if we talking about GCR or any kind of Delegate!


    They were delegate of TEP, they helped coordinate massive operations, they helped revive TEP after a coup attempt (Lib was FA Minister in the Marrabuk Administration).
    Okay, so like... one maybe sort of commendable thing (rebuilding after a coup) and even that... what did they do?
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    Varanius
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    Postby Varanius » Sun May 30, 2021 9:51 am

    Vamperiall wrote:The Consortium is a work in progress. It exists within the minds of the members, and is an agreement that deserves to be mentioned. Lib laid the foundations for the Consortium to be built on. It's somewhat stalled, sure, but it exists as an idea and is still being developed.
    There exists in my mind a player named Ted who has stopped every coup, ever. Can I commend him? Seriously though, it’s been like a year hasn’t it? Normally you don’t publicly announce an “idea” on the forums so it can be “developed” for another year, if it’s happening at all. Either way, not exactly commendable.

    Sure, it is fluffy, but that's exactly what happened. Since XKI and Euro are opposites, and strengthening relations with both at the same is difficult FA-ly, I think that's worth having.
    Since apparently you might have missed this one (and I’ll get to that later), were they or were they not already treaty allies? I genuinely don’t know and it seems sort of important.

    1. Do I need to explain the need for people to rebuild a region after an attempted coup?
    Lol. Luckily for us both that’s not all that’s in he commendation draft, if it were he’d be even less commendable, and that’s saying something.

    2. Condescending as always! People (wider NS and some GPers) seem to have an idea of GCR supremacy. Lib diminished this through UCR outreach.
    Lmao. GCRs and UCRs had and will continue have relations with each other. This isn’t something new or special. And I have no idea what you’re going on about how Lib diminished any GCR supremacy mentalities.

    3. Couldn't tell you.
    Now, because of the way you structured your post I have no idea what this is supposed to be in response to. But whatever it’s responding too, if you can’t tell me the details of the clause either learn them and come back, or drop the clause.

    4. Endorsements are good! TEP was (iirc) one of the feeders with the smallest endocount before Lib took over.
    Seems Flander already got to this.

    5. I mean, it's not like citizens had a direct line of communication to the delegate to give their two cents before Lib took over. Maybe they did! But their restructuring of the WA Ministry helped formalise the process.
    Sounds like normal, basic delegate stuff.

    It was a mighty big faction though. It could have survived, but the Horsemen had their stronky pants on this year.
    Believe it or not we can’t really commend people on “could have”s. I’m sure Lib “could have” been a commendable nominee for example but that’s just not how the SC works.
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    Zukchiva
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    Postby Zukchiva » Sun May 30, 2021 10:04 am

    Vamperiall wrote:-snip-
    I would still suggest removing it entirely.

    The fact is that the Consortium still being set-up means it isn't suitable for a commend. At least, IMO. If it was set-up, had existed for a while, had done some form of initiatives as an established alliance then sure. But as it is, it's still in its planning stages so I wouldn't include it in a commend.
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    HumanSanity
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    Postby HumanSanity » Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:49 pm

    Just for clarity, is the new draft posted based on the commentary in the previous post?

    Conceptually, I think this is passable and am on the fence about the nominee's overall Commendability. But this current draft is just poorly developed. I'm happy to offer feedback to make the writing better, but don't want to tread already walked ground.
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    Numero Capitan
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    Postby Numero Capitan » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:08 am

    I think Libertanny was a very good delegate of the East Pacific, but I know a lot of others disagree with that. Unfortunately, this commendation proposal is relying on a lot of admirable attempts at events/alliances/military endeavors that mostly failed or fell short.

    Going through your 'recognising' paragraph as an example:

    - The Consortium was never formalized and still isn't much more than an idea and a Discord server, and probably won't amount to anything as the leadership in TEP becomes more detached from the Libertanny governments
    - ATOMIC was defeated pretty early on in N-day and moved into the AA faction from what I remember
    - As others have commented, the significance of strengthening existing relationships with XKI and Europeia isn't especially commendable and isn't well explained
    - Details of how these relationships have been notable should be given, and each should receive a dedicated paragraph if it amounts to something commendable. The Thaecia treaty would likely be easy to write, a paragraph on FNR might give opportunities to cover the good things that came out of the ATOMIC/Consortium efforts even if they didn't achieve their original aims
    - Imperialist sphere: Again, I am not sure that this has materialized into any meaningful benefits beyond the sentiment of those statements. If it has they should be identified
    - South Pacific: this needs better clarification, the clause should focus on Libertanny's own efforts to mobilise a historic force of nations who might otherwise have never volunteered for what was ultimately a failed liberation attempt. This paragraph can be made commendable but currently it just reads quite deceptively and I don't think that helps
    - Warzone Asia: this was planned by OBB command as a cover for raiding Anarchy and to look like a defense. It isn't commendable at all, was proposed by Lone Wolves United not TEP and was never intended as an actual defense to an actual threat. What is even less commendable is the fact that the raid leaders then somehow played themselves, failed to attempt a raid on Anarchy and were forced to jump on Boston and lose to defenders. OBB is yet another ambitious idea that ultimately fell flat, like the Consortium and ATOMIC.

    There are some key achievements within TEP that should be emphasised more, the relations built between TEP and Thaecia are not insignificant and have been very mutually beneficial, the Inner Circle of TEP Foreign Affairs works well from what I have seen etc etc.

    I like Lib but unfortunately the hallmark of a lot of these things seems to be excellent vision, underwhelming execution (see also, Kaer Solas). The bar for commendation doesn't need to be 'everything they touch turns to gold' but I think the proposal, especially as currently written, would be very easy to convincingly pick apart for anyone wanting a quick WA author badge on a repeal. I think that a good case could be put forward, but a number of prominent regions would be opposed in principle and therefore any proposal needs to be excellent and I think this misses the mark.
    Last edited by Numero Capitan on Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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    Varanius
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    Postby Varanius » Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:46 pm

    And since the Consortium clause seems to still be in there (I apologize if you were already removing it and I’m simply illiterate) but now, in Serge’s own delegate campaign he’s stated this:
    Although the idea for Consortium was an awesome one, it has never worked, as intended. One could list various reasons, and it would be wise to do so, to take a lesson for future from it. But with such a long time since Consortium started happening and never forming, it is a wise decision to let it go. Whilst The East Pacific has improved relations with AC, FNR and Thaecia through it, most of Consortium goals were never accomplished, Consortium never became active and was never ratified. With almost a year from Consortium beginning, it is now too late to revive it. But it's never to late to take care of friends we made during that project. Simply saying, goodbye to Consortium, but hello friends! One must also not be afraid to say, that inactivity of KoGB and Force had a huge impact on destiny of Consortium. Therefore, we will be working on close cooperation with Thaecia and FNR (other founders of Consortium) in form of triumvirate "alliance" (cultural and diplomatic cooperation without proclaiming any bloc). Additionally, we will work closely with AC (formerly known as Iwakusphere).
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