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[DEFEATED] Condemn Northern Borland... again???

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Tinhampton
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[DEFEATED] Condemn Northern Borland... again???

Postby Tinhampton » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:09 pm

This resolution was at vote between the 29th of July and the 2nd of August, 2022.
It was defeated by a margin of 7,472 votes (about 55%) to 6,072 (about 45%).

This proposal has been filed to the Security Council Condemnation Board.
NOTE: at 1037 GMT on the 28th of July 2022, this proposal reached quorum with New Amoni's approval, the 59th all told.

Character count: 4,976
Word count: 766
Since Noah's Repeal Thingy Thing looks highly likely to pass... here we go again lol ;p
I now feel that I can make the connection between NB, EB and DSB (UPDATE 25/07/2022: and Tzo) with confidence, for obvious reasons.
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Condemn Northern Borland
A resolution to express shock and dismay at a nation or region.
Category: Condemnation
Nominee: Northern Borland
Proposed by: Tinhampton

THE SECURITY COUNCIL:

RECOGNISING that many national leaders have been successfully manipulated into believing that [nation=Northern Borland] consistently acts in the interests of other nations, having served for many years until July 2017 as the Advocate and Arbiter General of [region=Capitalist Paradise], which entails defending suspects in regional trials and helping resolve internal disputes before they escalate to the court system;

FEARFUL, however, that this community service has only helped Northern Borland hide its true legacy as a nation utterly dominated by its unregulated market, so much so that it has long called itself "A Good Place to Raise Your Business" in its tourism campaigns (advertisement which is hardly proving beneficial for a country now ranked by the World Census as the third-most avoided out of over 255,000 nations);

CONCERNED that, although Northern Borland is facially an economic miracle - boasting of the world's highest average disposable income (and sixth-highest average income before "tax"), most efficient economy, and fourth-highest gross domestic product - many of these gains are pocketed by the highest-earning decile, the 27th-richest upper class of any country, which currently earns fifty-five times as much as the nation's poorest decile;

AWARE that this wealthy fraction have amassed enough Greenbacks to distort World Census rankings on industry, with support from a government that uses its entire budget to subsidise it: the nation currently ranks in the top sixty worldwide for twelve of the sixteen major industries tracked by the Census, resulting in the whole manufacturing sector being the 107th-largest in the world;

HORRIFIED at Northern Borland's refusal to imprison even its most hardened criminals, which - when combined with the fifth-rudest and fifth-most armed populace in the world, a sure sign of unscratchably-itchy trigger fingers - has produced the second-highest death rate, tenth-worst crime rate and 97th-worst youth crime rate of all nations;

DISMAYED that Northern Borlandians spend so much time working (Northern Borland has the multiverse's second-highest employment rate, fuelled by widespread child labour), spending (whether stimulating economic growth via the third-largest retail sector of any country or spunking a presumably tiny fraction of their life savings in the third-biggest gambling market), and eating (not only has hosting the biggest soft-drinks sector and fourth-largest pizza delivery market contributed to over 199 in every 200 citizens being obese - the highest obesity rate anywhere - but Northern Borland has helped countless dingy pizzerias advance similar outcomes around the world through its status as the fourth-largest exporter of cheese) that they inadvertently prop up their President and CEO by simply not caring, thus constituting the fourth most politically-apathetic populace;

OBSERVING that the Northern Borlandian government has proven duplicitous enough to set up three satellite states with largely opposing goals to Northern Borland itself, namely:
  • [nation=East Borland], which not only harbours a larger manufacturing sector than Northern Borland but is also the most avoided, most corrupt, and eighth-most patriotic state, no doubt a result of His Supreme Eminence's desperate attempt to keep his subjects in line by banning everything from immigration and emigration to video games and the practice of religion, closing off access to family planning services, and even condoning slavery;
  • [nation=Deep South Borland], the world's most religious and most primitive country, and supposedly the fourth-most visited nation by tourists - a figure that must be called into doubt in light of its refusal to allow any planes to land on its territory (whether or not carrying any holidaymakers), prohibition of zoos, bar on organised sports, strict nationwide curfew and sponsorship of a religiously-driven human sacrifice program; and
  • [nation=Tzo], a socialist experiment which many observers, the World Census included, believe is an open-minded society (Tzo has the smartest citizens, strongest dedication to equality, finest culture and best-quality food of any nation) supported by a capable government (while the size - and average tax take - of Tzo's government is outdone only by Kindjal, its health service, public transport, schools and benefit system are not similarly competitive) and strong communities (Tzo's citizens are the second-safest, seventh-healthiest, and ninth-most compliant, in part due to their government cracking down on cars, guns, cigarettes and slot machines while completely surrendering fiscal affairs to a robot); and

CONVINCED that those seeking to embrace capitalism ought to steer clear of the Northern Borlandian model, which has brought its citizenry little more than death, boredom, and mass-scale impulse buying:

HEREBY CONDEMNS [nation=Northern Borland].
Last edited by Tinhampton on Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:33 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:17 pm

Are we really going to go through this process again?
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:37 pm

FFS no! I feel like I’m trapped in some sort of time loop where people keep proposing the same shitty drafts for the same undeserving nation.
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

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Sedgistan wrote:The SC has just has a spate of really shitty ones recently from Northumbria, his Watermelon fanboy…..

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Comfed
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Postby Comfed » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:46 pm

Surely this is a cruel joke.

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:48 pm

Comfed wrote:Surely this is a cruel joke.

Don’t call me Shirley!

(Sorry couldn’t resist that Airplane line.)
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

Sedgistan wrote:The SC has just has a spate of really shitty ones recently from Northumbria, his Watermelon fanboy…..

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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:53 pm

Since you got first dibs on this already, please don't bring this topic up for the next 4 months. If I hear the words 'Northern Borland' ever again I will go into a fit of rage and probably smash stuff up
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Noahs Second Country
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Postby Noahs Second Country » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:53 pm

While I support the idea... good luck. You'll need it and probably much more to get this within passing range.

Honeydewistania wrote:Since you got first dibs on this already, please don't bring this topic up for the next 4 months. If I hear the words 'Northern Borland' ever again I will go into a fit of rage and probably smash stuff up

22 seconds ago: The Second Best of Noahs Second Country submitted a proposal to the WA Security Council entitled "Commend Northern Borland".
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Bormiar wrote: reckless and greedy, closer to a character issue than something to be rewarded.
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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:55 pm

Also, I strongly suggest fleshing out some of the more important stuff (the #1 stats) instead of what you have here which caused the original to be defeated soundly
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SherpDaWerp
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Postby SherpDaWerp » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:58 am

Look, in my honest opinion, NB is simply not on the same level as Kindjal, who tends to represent the bar for stat C/Cs.

"But they've got 9 firsts!" - Yes, but across 3 nations. Issue management on multiple nations is fundamentally heaps easier than on a single nation, as you don't have to think about anywhere near as many trade-offs.

NB has 1% badges for Scientific Advancement and Secularism, which would conflict with Deep South Borland's Primitiveness and Religiousness, while Deep South Borland has another 1% badge for Tourism that would cancel East Borland's Charmlessness, and a 100% tax rate and imploded economy that isn't compatible with Northern Borland's Freedom from Taxation and Economy.

At no point has the player behind NB had to choose between badges for Primitiveness and Economy, because they've just relegated them to different nations. Kindjal manages 10 firsts and 24 1%s on one nation, which includes several trade-offs that NB has simply, well, bypassed.

And even without the trade-offs, NB could manage 10 firsts on one nation if they pumped Death Rate, Charmlessness, Pizza Delivery, Employment and Retail, but they just haven't done so (or, not quite enough to pass the competition). It's like if Northern Borland and East Borland were combined (which, critically, they're not, and I've left out Deep South because it's incompatible almost entirely with NB's other two nations - see above) and then they'd still need three more badges to be equal.
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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:16 am

You’re comparing Kindjali apples to Deep South Borlandian oranges here. Having two more nations to manage means three times more likely to make mistakes. Northern Borland also has more 1% stats, and is generally more well rounded in their rankings. If we’re going to make Kindjal the benchmark of stats commends, we’re gonna have no more. Probably forever. Northern Borland is the closest a nation gets to Kindjal’s dominance and having 5 number one badges is still a great feat that should be recognised, condemn or commend.
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Radicalania
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Postby Radicalania » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:04 pm

"Give it a little bit of time before condemning NB" they say.
*immediately drafts one*
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:06 pm

Radicalania wrote:"Give it a little bit of time before condemning NB" they say.
*immediately drafts one*

I'm not going to submit this immediately lol
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The Python
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Postby The Python » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:09 pm

Support, also note that Northern Borland is in the lowest 100 in the world for cheerfulness.
See more information here.

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Great Algerstonia
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Postby Great Algerstonia » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:55 pm

I support this bill too. Borland is worthy of a SC condemn.
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Postby Honeydewistania » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:56 pm

Radicalania wrote:"Give it a little bit of time before condemning NB" they say.
*immediately drafts one*

And the reception is mainly negative
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Nepleslia
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Postby Nepleslia » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:59 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:
Radicalania wrote:"Give it a little bit of time before condemning NB" they say.
*immediately drafts one*

And the reception is mainly negative

To the surprise of virtually no one, save perhaps the author themselves.

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SherpDaWerp
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Postby SherpDaWerp » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:00 am

Honeydewistania wrote:You’re comparing Kindjali apples to Deep South Borlandian oranges here. Having two more nations to manage means three times more likely to make mistakes. Northern Borland also has more 1% stats, and is generally more well rounded in their rankings. If we’re going to make Kindjal the benchmark of stats commends, we’re gonna have no more. Probably forever. Northern Borland is the closest a nation gets to Kindjal’s dominance and having 5 number one badges is still a great feat that should be recognised, condemn or commend.

You're right, but my main point still stands - comparing NB to Kindjal just doesn't work because managing 3 nations is different to managing 1; and comparing it equivalently like "9 badges here, 10 badges there" (which, in hindsight, I guess I kinda did that myself by the end of my post) or listing off badges in a similar format - like this proposal does - neglects the fact that having multiple nations means it's easier to target less badges per nation without as many tradeoffs while still having an overall high number of badges. whew. long sentence...

"Roundedness" is a bit arbitrary - NB has only 4 more 1%s (5 if you discount Influence) but a whopping 16 of those are Industry stats, which would all be given a significant boost thanks to NB's heavily free-market economy-building setup, which includes a fair bit of government subsidy. I'd say that evens out any "narrow"-ness between government sectors or the various nice/cheerful/kind/inclusive/etc. stats that Kindjal has.

For the record, if only one stats commend ever passes, I'd still be fine with that outcome - we don't have to commend every semi-notable player in a given part of the game (this wave of NB-madness has already given way to a proposal for Cashdeer - likely to pass or not - which would in turn give way to more proposals for less badges and so on down the chain), we don't have to have a Commend for good stats and a Condemn for bad stats for balance - we can just leave it at the one.

Yes, it's still 3 times the mistakes, but issues that could majorly tank your stats (especially big-name stats like "Economy") are heavily signposted, and I don't see stats commends as recognising skill-in-avoiding-mistakes as much as I see them as recognising skill-at-finding-a-niche and consistent dedication to that niche.

I'm fine with NB getting a Condemn (I'd probably Abstain from voting though) but it's very much worth pointing out that just because it's a stats commend doesn't mean it's like Kindjal's, and doesn't mean it should be compared as 9 badges to 10 badges. It's a bit more like, hmm... maybe Trotterdam's commend vs Nuremgard's commend? They're both focused on one niche of the game, but in different ways - mostly feedback vs writing.
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Unchecked Majority Rule
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Postby Unchecked Majority Rule » Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:55 pm

That is a no from me. Even if northern borland IS a filthy capitalist nation, they are simply role-playing as a filthy capitalist nation and there is literally zero evidence otherwise for condemnation. The best evidence is through factbooks and dispatches. Northern borland has neither. I take NationStates stats way too seriously, and even I know those alone are not grounds for condemnation
Last edited by Unchecked Majority Rule on Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Goobergunchia » Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:21 pm

Unchecked Majority Rule, don't gravedig.

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Hulldom
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Postby Hulldom » Thu Jul 14, 2022 6:48 pm

Generally in support of the idea (I saw the moderation thread), but I would also try to incorporate the other Borlands in to this, especially if it’s a condemnation.
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The Orwell Society
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Postby The Orwell Society » Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:01 pm

Hulldom wrote:Generally in support of the idea (I saw the moderation thread), but I would also try to incorporate the other Borlands in to this, especially if it’s a condemnation.

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Fachumonn
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Postby Fachumonn » Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:25 pm

The Orwell Society wrote:
Hulldom wrote:Generally in support of the idea (I saw the moderation thread), but I would also try to incorporate the other Borlands in to this, especially if it’s a condemnation.

Declaration on the Borland States

Please no. Now, it seems like you want to grab any hard c/c and put it under the "declaration" category after Bormiar decided to try one.
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Saint Tomas and the Northern Ice Islands
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Postby Saint Tomas and the Northern Ice Islands » Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:30 pm

There are around 250000 nations. Also, could you please rework that whole industry clause? Nobody cares about their 4000th in trout fishing. Talk about the 1st in beverages, for instance. You have 800+ characters to spare.
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The Orwell Society
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Postby The Orwell Society » Sat Jul 23, 2022 1:24 pm

Fachumonn wrote:
The Orwell Society wrote:Declaration on the Borland States

Please no. Now, it seems like you want to grab any hard c/c and put it under the "declaration" category after Bormiar decided to try one.

It was obviously a joke. It's nigh impossible to pursue anyway...
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:20 pm

The Orwell Society wrote:
Fachumonn wrote:Please no. Now, it seems like you want to grab any hard c/c and put it under the "declaration" category after Bormiar decided to try one.

It was obviously a joke. It's nigh impossible to pursue anyway...

Were you not there when NB was commended?
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