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[DEFEATED] Condemn Lily

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Frenchy II
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 164
Founded: May 31, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Frenchy II » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:19 am

You know, we almost started a “so you want to condemn lily” dispatch a few months back because we got a lot of funny one line proposals. I guess we actually do need it for proposals like this as well :P. The factual inaccuracies and the unwillingness to read the forum thread where all our history is logged and even previous condemnations for formatting have amalgamated into this strangely emotion-fueled mess.
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Mendevia
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Founded: Feb 11, 2004
New York Times Democracy

Postby Mendevia » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:26 am

I would vote for this if it weren't so poorly written. "Think about what they could do in a year." Uh no, the author needs to tell us why we should condemn Lily's actions using facts. Not what ifs. This looks more like a speech and not actual legislation especially with this part: "The Security Council's motto is “Spreading interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.” This is one of those times where we must take action and use force against Lily to condemn them.". This is too personal, too emotional. Please rewrite it.

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Comfed
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Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:27 am

“Lily tagged my one nation region and this is an outrage so full support.”
Mall:
Best part about being a mod was engaging in normal player behavior and getting accused of abuse
"You think this is abuse? I'll SHOW you abuse."
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

Put this in your sig if you passed biology and know that gender and sex are not the same thing.

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Cela
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Founded: Jan 22, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Cela » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:32 am

As stated before by many others, I would support this but it seems to be driven by emotion and not the facts. Lily is worthy of condemnation, but the full extent of their condemnation needs to be stated and this resolution doesn't do it justice. I'm voting against in hopes that a better resolution can be brought forward in the future.
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Westarctic
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Founded: Sep 12, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Westarctic » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:34 am

Hexxon wrote:Full SUPPORT.

The dishonorable region of Lily had attempted a take over of my region, the United Federation of Earth, which had been successfully defeated by a noble group of defenders that managed to counter the invasion before they took control. Without those guys, Lily would have full control over my region. Lily needs to be condemned for their actions and be remembered as NationStates public enemy #1.

I don't care if it's poorly written - as long as they get condemned and disgraced that's all that matters to me.

Exactly, its condemning Lily, nothing else. If you don't support it, you support raiding. Plain and simple.
“You don’t have time to think up there. If you think, you’re dead.” — Maverick

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Westarctic
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Founded: Sep 12, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Westarctic » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:35 am

Comfed wrote:“Lily tagged my one nation region and this is an outrage so full support.”

The Embassy retard, they destroyed the embassy.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Founded: Dec 17, 2003
New York Times Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:36 am

Comfed wrote:“Lily tagged my one nation region and this is an outrage so full support.”

That’s about right.

For all the emotion and outrage expressed by members of backwater UCRs during the occupation of The Embassy it doesn’t seem to be translating into votes for the proposal.
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Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

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Westarctic
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Founded: Sep 12, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Westarctic » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:37 am

Honeydewistania wrote:
Westarctic wrote:Full support. I feel that the reason people will vote against this is because raiding is "allowed". Even then, this isn't right, raiding isn't ok just because its allowed.

People will vote against it because the proposal is of low quality.

its still condemning lily, what else matters?
“You don’t have time to think up there. If you think, you’re dead.” — Maverick

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Comfed
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:46 am

Westarctic wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:People will vote against it because the proposal is of low quality.

its still condemning lily, what else matters?

If there was a proposal reading “Condemn Lily because they suck” would you vote for it? The quality of the resolution matters.
Westarctic wrote:
Hexxon wrote:Full SUPPORT.

The dishonorable region of Lily had attempted a take over of my region, the United Federation of Earth, which had been successfully defeated by a noble group of defenders that managed to counter the invasion before they took control. Without those guys, Lily would have full control over my region. Lily needs to be condemned for their actions and be remembered as NationStates public enemy #1.

I don't care if it's poorly written - as long as they get condemned and disgraced that's all that matters to me.

Exactly, its condemning Lily, nothing else. If you don't support it, you support raiding. Plain and simple.

The delegates of The South Pacific and 10000 Islands have both voted against this resolution. Both are highly vocal defenders. This “if you’re not with us you’re the enemy” rhetoric will convince no one here.
Mall:
Best part about being a mod was engaging in normal player behavior and getting accused of abuse
"You think this is abuse? I'll SHOW you abuse."
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

Put this in your sig if you passed biology and know that gender and sex are not the same thing.

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Crazy girl
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby Crazy girl » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:50 am

Westarctic wrote:
Comfed wrote:“Lily tagged my one nation region and this is an outrage so full support.”

The Embassy retard, they destroyed the embassy.



*** Warned for flaming ***

That is your second warning in two days, I suggest you read up on the rules quickly, next time will be a free vacation from the forum.

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Westarctic
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Founded: Sep 12, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Westarctic » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:07 am

Crazy girl wrote:
Westarctic wrote:The Embassy retard, they destroyed the embassy.



*** Warned for flaming ***

That is your second warning in two days, I suggest you read up on the rules quickly, next time will be a free vacation from the forum.

Whatever
“You don’t have time to think up there. If you think, you’re dead.” — Maverick

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Jedinsto
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Founded: Nov 12, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Jedinsto » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:43 am

This is going to be completely destroyed. Votes are political, and should be treated as such. If the author was willing to pay attention and go through the process normally, as well as simply write it well, this would have had a chance. There are countless regions that raid, tag, and detag, so to use this as an argument for a condemnation sets the precedent that the SC favors defenders, something extremely frowned upon by old repeals, and that raiding is grounds for an automatic condemnation. Region destroying, however, is a different story. The only part of this which made me even think of not voting against was the fact that it mentioned the embassy. In my eyes, and most people can back me up on this, the poorly written parts and terribly construed arguments, as well as emotion, defeats anything relatively passable in this resolution.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
Minister
 
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Founded: Dec 17, 2003
New York Times Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:50 am

Hexxon wrote:Full SUPPORT.

The dishonorable region of Lily had attempted a take over of my region, the United Federation of Earth, which had been successfully defeated by a noble group of defenders that managed to counter the invasion before they took control. Without those guys, Lily would have full control over my region. Lily needs to be condemned for their actions and be remembered as NationStates public enemy #1.

I don't care if it's poorly written - as long as they get condemned and disgraced that's all that matters to me.

Disgraced? Hardly. A Condemnation is a badge of honour for having played the villain well over a good period of time. The proposal does not capture the full extent of Lily’s villainy, inaccurately portrays the villainy it did manage to capture and is, overall, an extremely sloppy piece of work.

If the SC is going to hand out a badge of honour it should hand it out for an accurate and well written proposal.
Former Delegate and Guardian of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:54 am

Westarctic wrote:
Crazy girl wrote:

*** Warned for flaming ***

That is your second warning in two days, I suggest you read up on the rules quickly, next time will be a free vacation from the forum.

Whatever

I would heed the mod's advice. Don't flame people, it's not that hard.

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Niveusium
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Founded: Dec 15, 2019
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Niveusium » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:56 am

I support condemning Lily. Lily should have been condemned ages ago. But this has been so poorly written that it's hard for me to support it. I support it nonetheless, but it seems like the condemnation will be shot down. I recommend the person rewrite the condemnation and resubmit it. What they are doing has been going on for far too long and is truly condemnable, but we can't half-ass the one time we get to condemn Lily.
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Cela
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Founded: Jan 22, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Cela » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:59 am

Westarctic wrote:
Crazy girl wrote:

*** Warned for flaming ***

That is your second warning in two days, I suggest you read up on the rules quickly, next time will be a free vacation from the forum.

Whatever

Your ableist language is bigoted and unprofessional.
Don't Mourn, organize!

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Team Lennox
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Posts: 153
Founded: Feb 24, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Team Lennox » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:02 am

Bruh Lily did invade important regions such as The Wooloo Pact last year. The only reason why I am not supporting this is because it will give Lily a shiny badge. Also the proposal isn't well written. It is well, "okay". I rate this proposal a 6.5/10.
Comfed wrote:“Lily tagged my one nation region and this is an outrage so full support.”

Hexxon wrote:Full SUPPORT.

The dishonorable region of Lily had attempted a take over of my region, the United Federation of Earth, which had been successfully defeated by a noble group of defenders that managed to counter the invasion before they took control. Without those guys, Lily would have full control over my region. Lily needs to be condemned for their actions and be remembered as NationStates public enemy #1.

I don't care if it's poorly written - as long as they get condemned and disgraced that's all that matters to me.

They raided my old home region a year ago. Yeah Lily annoyin' but condemning em will just make em happy. You don't wanna make em happy eh?
Last edited by Team Lennox on Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Westarctic
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Founded: Sep 12, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Westarctic » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:45 am

Cela wrote:
Westarctic wrote:Whatever

Your ableist language is bigoted and unprofessional.

Lol, ok, cry more
“You don’t have time to think up there. If you think, you’re dead.” — Maverick

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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:53 am

Westarctic wrote:
Cela wrote:Your ableist language is bigoted and unprofessional.

Lol, ok, cry more

Doubling down doesn't do you any favors.

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Outer Sparta
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11515
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:00 am

Westarctic wrote:
Hexxon wrote:Full SUPPORT.

The dishonorable region of Lily had attempted a take over of my region, the United Federation of Earth, which had been successfully defeated by a noble group of defenders that managed to counter the invasion before they took control. Without those guys, Lily would have full control over my region. Lily needs to be condemned for their actions and be remembered as NationStates public enemy #1.

I don't care if it's poorly written - as long as they get condemned and disgraced that's all that matters to me.

Exactly, its condemning Lily, nothing else. If you don't support it, you support raiding. Plain and simple.

Let's say a terrible resolution condemning a raiding organization like TBH that is full of mistakes somehow makes it to a vote and we vote against because it's a terribly-written resolution. Do we "support raiding" by your logic or do we think that it's badly written?
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Greater Cesnica
Negotiator
 
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:02 am

Outer Sparta wrote:
Westarctic wrote:Exactly, its condemning Lily, nothing else. If you don't support it, you support raiding. Plain and simple.

Let's say a terrible resolution condemning a raiding organization like TBH that is full of mistakes somehow makes it to a vote and we vote against because it's a terribly-written resolution. Do we "support raiding" by your logic or do we think that it's badly written?

I suspect such poor rhetoric may actually be used once Condemn The Black Hawks mk3 goes to vote.

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Outer Sparta
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Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:06 am

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Let's say a terrible resolution condemning a raiding organization like TBH that is full of mistakes somehow makes it to a vote and we vote against because it's a terribly-written resolution. Do we "support raiding" by your logic or do we think that it's badly written?

I suspect such poor rhetoric may actually be used once Condemn The Black Hawks mk3 goes to vote.

I remember back then when DEN still existed (before they were struck down by the site mods for using illegal scripts) that there would be millions of Condemn DEN proposals being submitted and one would actually get to a vote and pass despite being poorly-written. Then of course that terrible resolution got a repeal and you start back to square one. All these recent submissions condemning Lily or TBH definitely is like the bandwagoning going on back then with condemning DEN.
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Connotar
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Founded: Nov 29, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Connotar » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:06 am

Outer Sparta wrote:
Westarctic wrote:Exactly, its condemning Lily, nothing else. If you don't support it, you support raiding. Plain and simple.

Let's say a terrible resolution condemning a raiding organization like TBH that is full of mistakes somehow makes it to a vote and we vote against because it's a terribly-written resolution. Do we "support raiding" by your logic or do we think that it's badly written?

It could be badly written, but it's what the resolution is commending/condemning/liberating. It could be a poorly written anything about an invader region, but
1. It got past GenSec
2. And it made a point about how these regions do not "spread interregional peace and goodwill"

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Bhang Bhang Duc
Minister
 
Posts: 2834
Founded: Dec 17, 2003
New York Times Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:11 am

Connotar wrote:It could be badly written, but it's what the resolution is commending/condemning/liberating. It could be a poorly written anything about an invader region, but
1. It got past GenSec
2. And it made a point about how these regions do not "spread interregional peace and goodwill"

It did not get past GenSec - they check the legality of GA proposals, not the SC. Moderation does the legality checks for the SC
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
Former Delegate and Guardian of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

User avatar
Outer Sparta
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11515
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:12 am

Connotar wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Let's say a terrible resolution condemning a raiding organization like TBH that is full of mistakes somehow makes it to a vote and we vote against because it's a terribly-written resolution. Do we "support raiding" by your logic or do we think that it's badly written?

It could be badly written, but it's what the resolution is commending/condemning/liberating. It could be a poorly written anything about an invader region, but
1. It got past GenSec
2. And it made a point about how these regions do not "spread interregional peace and goodwill"

The thing is, this resolution did a very poor job at persuading its case of why we should vote to condemn Lily. Many people believe Lily should be condemned, but the resolution itself must be well-written to reflect their accomplishments.
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