[DEFEATED] Condemn Lily

[Fahran]

Many people in the SC forums agree that Lily deserves a condemnation for their work, but that resolution has to be well-written to fully merit their contributions.

Absolutely. I have no intention of authoring one given my own past (and possible future) connections to Lily, but anyone who wants to author one may borrow from my previous draft, which was written as a counterweight to the assortment of really bad resolutions floating around back then, and I'll chime in to clarify events I know about. I'm a touch out of the loop on more recent sneky raider activities, I'm afraid.

[Warzone Codger]

That's a bit doubtful given how anti-condemnation the SC was the last time a condemnation was brought before it. Really, the only thing that's changed is that the condemnation is not as badly written as previous iterations, that the author has no known ties to Lily, and that Lily managed to raid The Embassy. Heck, if we'd known that last one mattered so much, we could have knocked it off a couple years back and then raided Christmas.

I just feel too many people will just read the title and join the Lily condemnation bandwagon due to recent events and not even reading the poorly-written draft. I definitely could be underestimating the general public, but my concerns stem from how a poorly-written resolution could easily pass if there's a large enough bandwagon.

Oh, I didn't see that this had been submitted. As a veteran of Lily, I'm going to have to oppose this. It's less well-written then my own dubious attempt at a condemnation and actually gets a number of the facts wrong, specifically regarding Operation Supernova and the exclusion of previous trophies taken. I do think Lily deserves a condemnation, largely as a badge of honor for making a worthwhile contribution to NSGP, but this feels inadequate.

Many people in the SC forums agree that Lily deserves a condemnation for their work, but that resolution has to be well-written to fully merit their contributions.

Yes, but what I like about this is that it actually seems to be written by a victim/native who is outraged by Lily. Often, when the 'well written resolution' comes, we know the intention is by someone who is OOC impressed by Lily.

[Outer Sparta]

I just feel too many people will just read the title and join the Lily condemnation bandwagon due to recent events and not even reading the poorly-written draft. I definitely could be underestimating the general public, but my concerns stem from how a poorly-written resolution could easily pass if there's a large enough bandwagon.

Many people in the SC forums agree that Lily deserves a condemnation for their work, but that resolution has to be well-written to fully merit their contributions.

Yes, but what I like about this is that it actually seems to be written by a victim/native who is outraged by Lily. Often, when the 'well written resolution' comes, we know the intention is by someone who is OOC impressed by Lily.

Still doesn't change the fact that the resolution isn't well-written. I would prefer a well-written resolution regardless of whether or not the author is a victim of Lily or is someone who is impressed with them. Obviously Lily members or affiliates wouldn't count as that presents a conflict of interest, as Fahran stated earlier they won't take up authorship.

[Fahran]

Yes, but what I like about this is that it actually seems to be written by a victim/native who is outraged by Lily. Often, when the 'well written resolution' comes, we know the intention is by someone who is OOC impressed by Lily.

The last slew of resolutions was actually authored by victims outraged by Lily. The victims just had exceedingly poor grammar, had a shaky grasp on how the SC works, and were also styling themselves as raiders at the time they had their regions nerfed by Lily. I believe my own resolution was the only one authored by someone who supported (and was at one point a member of) Lily, and I largely wrote it because of the poor quality of the other resolutions.

[Outer Sparta]

Yes, but what I like about this is that it actually seems to be written by a victim/native who is outraged by Lily. Often, when the 'well written resolution' comes, we know the intention is by someone who is OOC impressed by Lily.

The last slew of resolutions was actually authored by victims outraged by Lily. The victims just had exceedingly poor grammar, had a shaky grasp on how the SC works, and were also styling themselves as raiders at the time they had their regions nerfed by Lily. I believe my own resolution was the only one authored by someone who supported (and was at one point a member of) Lily, and I largely wrote it because of the poor quality of the other resolutions.

You obviously have a good point with your previous draft on Lily. I just wish that there would be that one quality draft someone could think of that puts all the other lower quality proposals to bed.

[Fahran]

You obviously have a good point with your previous draft on Lily. I just wish that there would be that one quality draft someone could think of that puts all the other lower quality proposals to bed.

I'm beginning to believe that the quality of the draft doesn't really matter too much. There probably won't be enough will among SC heavy weights to get behind a condemnation until Lily does something a bit more conventional with their raiding - like toppling a feeder or destroying an old and well-liked region completely.

[Outer Sparta]

You obviously have a good point with your previous draft on Lily. I just wish that there would be that one quality draft someone could think of that puts all the other lower quality proposals to bed.

I'm beginning to believe that the quality of the draft doesn't really matter too much. There probably won't be enough will among SC heavy weights to get behind a condemnation until Lily does something a bit more conventional with their raiding - like toppling a feeder or destroying an old and well-liked region completely.

That definitely is true. We'll see if Lily could ever pull of that kind of audacious raids.

[The Python]

Support - if people feel it's low quality it could always be replaced but I even feel that it's pretty good quality

[Outer Sparta]

Support - if people feel it's low quality it could always be replaced but I even feel that it's pretty good quality

The standard on Lily drafts is quite high to reflect their importance. I don't think this draft meets the standards for a condemnation.

[Greater Cesnica]

If this passes... Oh dear.

[Fahran]

If this passes... Oh dear.

The SC has passed worse, but it is suboptimal. I'm mostly vexed by the details on Operation Supernova being wrong and a lot of naughty activities being left out. I wonder if we can resolution raid this. :^)

[Team Lennox]

If this passes... Oh dear.

I think this is a decent proposal but I will be voting against it anyways, the author has done some decent research on this

[Fahran]

I think this is a decent proposal but I will be voting against it anyways, the author has done some decent research on this

I mean... the author did kinda understate Operation Supernova.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

While Lily may well be worthy of a Condemnation,

I was under the impression that you flat-out opposed a condemnation for tag-raiding. I believe that was the objection the last time a condemnation popped up. Has your position changed since then? Or have the more recent raids, in your opinion, been deserving of a condemnation?

Sorry Fahran, I missed your post earlier.

I have no objection to tag raids being part of an overall measure of Condemnability. However, I think a raider unit has to be shown to have brought something else to the table. Certainly the raid on The Embassy goes toward that.

My objection to the present attempt is that it’s poorly researched, badly written and it’s sloppy. To be told three times to correct Herby to Hereby and then still submit it with the mistake. Well, it’s like me going to the gym. I want to but I can’t be arsed. That’s their attitude.

[The Python]

https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1613802066 this proposal is currently more important, so it would probably be better to wait until this reaches quorum (because it is more important than a condemn badge)

EDIT: This has already reached quorum so never mind

[Outer Sparta]

https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_view_proposal/id=alcala-cordel_1613802066 this proposal is currently more important, so it would probably be better to wait until this reaches quorum (because it is more important than a condemn badge)

Highly doubt the author here would want to withdraw their submitted proposal. But they would be better off withdrawing and revising further.

[The Python]

https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_view_proposal/id=alcala-cordel_1613802066 this proposal is currently more important, so it would probably be better to wait until this reaches quorum (because it is more important than a condemn badge)

Highly doubt the author here would want to withdraw their submitted proposal. But they would be better off withdrawing and revising further.

Yes apparently I just saw that it had reached quorum. It'll just take 3 more days so a password can be put on the Embassy but that's fine.

[Outer Sparta]

Highly doubt the author here would want to withdraw their submitted proposal. But they would be better off withdrawing and revising further.

Yes apparently I just saw that it had reached quorum. It'll just take 3 more days so a password can be put on the Embassy but that's fine.

It's also noteworthy the author hasn't come back to reply in the thread. Even before, they didn't really listen to the advice that's been giving by BBD and a few others.

[Groot]

To be told three times to correct Herby to Hereby and then still submit it with the mistake.

That was corrected in the submitted version.

[Greater Cesnica]

To be told three times to correct Herby to Hereby and then still submit it with the mistake.

That was corrected in the submitted version.

Not originally. It was originally submitted, then withdrawn, then resubmitted, then withdrawn again, and finally submitted.

[Aredita]

To be told three times to correct Herby to Hereby and then still submit it with the mistake.

That was corrected in the submitted version.

Indeed.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

That was corrected in the submitted version.

Indeed.

Not originally. It was originally submitted, then withdrawn, then resubmitted, then withdrawn again, and finally submitted.

Greater Cesnica has the truth of it.

[Outer Sparta]

Indeed.

Not originally. It was originally submitted, then withdrawn, then resubmitted, then withdrawn again, and finally submitted.

Greater Cesnica has the truth of it.

If you have to submit and withdraw and do it over and over again, then it's a sign the draft isn't fully-fleshed out at that point. Better to spend some time on it and get everything worked out before going for the submission.

[Hateyu]

for

[Kingdom of Circle of Magi]

Against, this is just so poorly written condemnation.