[PASSED] Commend Roavin

[Refuge Isle]

I disagree that that rule 2b is violated in that manner. The clause does not state that those names are players.

Applauding ... work as a mentor for well known and respected defenders including ... as well as

Says to me

"respected defenders such as [nation] as well as [nation], [invalid nation], [nation], [invalid nation], [invalid nation], [nation]"

It does not state outright that the referenced names are players, true, but when one of them is clearly referenced and tagged as a defender nation (and player), the rest are implied to be as well. However, three of them do not have the ability to be interpreted in the IC manner than Kuriko can.

[Praeceps]

I disagree that that rule 2b is violated in that manner. The clause does not state that those names are players.

Applauding ... work as a mentor for well known and respected defenders including ... as well as

Says to me

"respected defenders such as [nation] as well as [nation], [invalid nation], [nation], [invalid nation], [invalid nation], [nation]"

It does not state outright that the referenced names are players, true, but when one of them is clearly referenced and tagged as a defender nation (and player), the rest are implied to be as well. However, three of them do not have the ability to be interpreted in the IC manner than Kuriko can.

I think you are interpreting it the wrong way, however, even with your interpretation, that would not be illegal. Correct me if I am wrong, your concern is that you are reading those names as nations and you cannot find those nations, as such, it would not have been possible for those nations to have been mentored. While I continue to disagree with your interpretation, wrong information is not against the rules of the SC (in this case, it is only wrong because you are misinterpreting the clause).

[Sedgistan]

Even in the real world, nations aren't always referred to by their full / proper names - "America" - "Britain" - "Holland" etc.

It's preferable to refer to nations by their nation names - and if you're using shortened names (e.g. "sedge") to introduce them first in a clause making clear which nation that refers to - but it's not an obligation.

[Refuge Isle]

Even in the real world, nations aren't always referred to by their full / proper names - "America" - "Britain" - "Holland" etc.

It's preferable to refer to nations by their nation names - and if you're using shortened names (e.g. "sedge") to introduce them first in a clause making clear which nation that refers to - but it's not an obligation.

The logic does not follow for me.

"[United States of] America" and "[Great] Britain" are both still partially the location names. And Holland is a region name within The Netherlands. "Sedge" is still derived from "[Sedg]istan".

"Phoenix" does not refer to a nation which contains the name "Phoenix" or any component thereof, slang shorthand or no. So what does "Phoenix" refer to, IC, when it is the player handle but the nation the player controls is "FiHami"?

[RiderSyl]

about time Roavin gets a Commendation!

after this we should Condemn Roavin for his Defender Francoism

[Vippertooth33]

In my first WA proposal ever state, it appears I have jumped the gun on this one and have been advised to withdraw the proposal and wait for some more feedback on the second draft (see original post).

[Tinhampton]

Five days is nowhere near enough time to be drafting a Commendation for a figure as influential as Roavin

The Security Council,

Recognising the selflessness of Roavin as a resolute protector and public servant to regions across the NationStates community,

Celebrating Roavin’s contributions to the just and noble cause of defending through their service as First Warden of The Order of the Grey Wardens, where over the course of a year they:

1. Tripled membership of the Wardens, ensuring more regions were able to be protected,
2. Led the creation of the Guardian program, empowering less active defending nations to contribute to operations through focusing on detag and piling, providing a basis for future success,
3. Created an advanced registry of nations in regions which could be mobilized in the event a defence was required,

Applauding Roavin’s work as a mentor for well known and respected defenders including Kuriko (current WA Secretary-General and a Commended nation), Nakarisaune, Kingdom of Circle of Magi, Aumeltopia, FiHami, United Federated States of Omega, and Pyrohy,

Astounded by Roavin’s sheer determination to protect innocent regions, having completing well over 1600 defenses and liberations, most notably:

1. Leading a liberating force of 49 nations against an occupation of Japan in 2017,
2. Liberating the Philippines just in time to save Christmas 2017,
3. Besting an active raiding force of 25 nations to help defend Portugal,

Acknowledging Roavin’s strategic and technological abilities, which have enabled thousands of defensive victories in raided regions, including but not limited to:

1. Developing a technique, in 2017, that allowed greater accuracy whilst defending regions, in spite of usual limitations such as size or proximity to large regions that would otherwise make some regions hard to defend,
2. Establishing strategies to ensure that the endorsements of a large liberating force are placed in an accurate and timely manner,
3. Training organisations with the attrition run technique to dislodge raiders with large influence levels,
4. The creation of the “Hunter Prime Operations Technology” in 2016; increasing organisation and operational security for defender communication channels,

Impressed by Roavin’s significant contributions to The South Pacific (TSP) over several years in a variety of areas which have contributed to making TSP more stable and secure; including:

1. Serving for five terms as the Prime Minister of the region, where they emphasized forum discussions for Cabinet over instant communication media improving record keeping and quality of discussion, introduced initiatives aimed at increasing transparency and addressed communication issues between the Ministry of Regional Affairs and the Assembly,
2. Serving as interim Minister of Foreign Affairs for TSP during an attempted coup of The East Pacific, coordinating TSP’s response which included mobilizing TSP’s military and their citizens’ militia as well as disseminating progress updates to TSP citizens,
3. Authoring “Commend Tsunamy”, a successful Security Council Resolution that recognised a nation for their contributions to the stability of TSP,
4. Notable involvement in improvements to TSP’s legislation through collaboration in creating premises, writing legislation, or lobbying for the passage of legislation such as:
   
   
   1. Comprehensive judicial reform to simplify the judicial system, eliminate loopholes, and transform the court into a non-adversarial system,
   2. Rewriting the transparency laws to ensure it applies to the Court as well as the Executive, requiring thorough documentation, and permitting auditing,
   3. Empowering the Council of Regional Security to utilize border control,
   4. Creating the Legislator Committee that streamlined the bureaucratic system in which new representatives are acclimated to the legislature,

Noting that the Curious Observations made by Roavin on the state of Lazarus in July 2017 were right, and that they exposed corruption and subterfuge within the region,

Extolling the dedicated service of Roavin in the noble struggle to prevent the advance of the Nazi/Fascist menace, as evidenced by them:

1. Uniting multiple major regions with varying ideologies to fight Nazis/Fascists through founding the organization Ruining Nazi Sandcastles,
2. Supporting liberating the regions The Red States and The Empire of Lights from Nazi/Fascist control through serving as a border control officer and planning the operations,
3. Providing logistics support in the Union Of The Fascist Nations operation, a region just short of 700 Fascist nations at its peak,
4. Co-ordinating, planning, and strategising the raids against Nazi Imperialist Japan and Elite Region Of Global Command, securing the demise of these hateful regions,

Believing Roavin’s contributions have made an immense positive impact on the international community, hereby,

Commends Roavin.

Co-authored by Praeceps

[Westinor]

Right, so I think this is a good commend - substance and format-wise I like it. I have a few minor wording quibbles:

Celebrating Roavin’s contributions to the just and noble cause of defending through their service as First Warden of the defender region The Order of the Grey Wardens, where over the course of a year they

Change "through" to "during".

Astounded by Roavin’s sheer determination to protect innocent regions with Roavin completing well over 1600 defenses and liberations, most notably:

I think you could get away with removing the "with Roavin" and adding a comma.

Developing a technique, in 2017, that allowed greater accuracy whilst defending regions, in spite of usual limitations such as size or proximity to large regions that would otherwise make some regions hard to defend,

Don't need the first two commas.

Training organisations with the attrition run technique to dislodge raiders with large influence levels,

Probably "Training organisations in the attrition run technique"?

Impressed by Roavin’s significant contributions to The South Pacific (TSP) over several years in a variety of areas which have contributed to providing stability and making TSP more secure; including:

To be quite honest, I don't like the "significant contributions... which have contributed to providing stability..." You can just write: "significant contributions... which have made TSP more secure" and go from there. No need for the awkward language.

Serving as the Prime Minister of the region for five terms, where they emphasized forum discussions for Cabinet over instant communication media improving record keeping and quality of discussion, introduced initiatives aimed at increasing transparency and addressed communication issues between the Ministry of Regional Affairs and the Assembly,

Maybe place "cabinet" before forum discussions (while deleting "for Cabinet") and add a comma after "media". I'm also a fan of the Oxford comma but you do you

coordinating TSP’s response

You have two different spellings of "co-ordinating"

successful Security Council Resolution

Well, if it wasn't successful it wouldn't be a resolution!

Notably involved in improvements to TSP’s legislation through collaboration in creating premises, writing legislation, or lobbying for the passage of legislation such as:

Right, so this sentence goes: "significant contributions... including: Notably involved in improvements..." While the other three bullet points start with "Serving" and "Authoring". Change the beginning of the sentence to something like "Improving TSP's legislation" or "being notably involved in improving TSP's legislation".

Creating the Legislator Committee that streamlined the bureaucratic system in which new representatives are acclimated to the legislature.

Maybe "...Legislator Committee, which streamlined..."?

Noting that the Curious Observations made by Roavin on the state of Lazarus in July 2017 were right, and that they exposed corruption and subterfuge within the region

Sentence structure is a bit weird. Maybe place the second bit before "were right". Up to you, though.

Co-ordinating, planning, strategising the raids against Nazi Imperialist Japan and Elite Region Of Global Command, securing the demise of these hateful regions,

Think you're missing an and somewhere in there.

A lot of these are just word choice and whatnot. Sorry for the nitpick (though Prae did ask for new feedback ) but this obviously isn't necessary for this resolution so feel free to ignore. I will certainly be supporting this at vote and will be happy to see it. Best of luck!

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Had a thorough read of the draft and must say I think it’s very good. I had some wordsmithing suggestions to make, but found Westinor had beaten me to the punch.

Will be happy to recommend support to my Delegate when it comes to the vote. Good effort all.

[Vippertooth33]

Thank you kindly to all who have provided suggestions thus far, the third draft is now available, please check the original post

[HumanSanity]

I support this fully and it overall represents a strong piece of work.

I want to join those who think the inconsistent naming convention in the mentorship clause is just a bit odd, regardless of legality. I also think the clause itself is a little odd--to say Roavin should be commended for his work in mentoring those players somewhat downplays those players' roles in their own success. I also don't think the purpose of the Defender Family Tree (Google Docs link) is to credit mentorship quite like this, rather it's to trace differences in tactics and ideology over time and also to observe how those things evolved throughout the lineages. For example, Roavin mentored Somyrion, and in that we can see some interesting methodological and ideological similarities as well as differences, and to say Roavin should be commended on the basis of Somy's work (which this clause would seem to suggest) is a bit flawed.

I also think the Curious Observations clause should either be cut or expanded upon. I get "Curious Observations ... [was] right" is a Roavin catchphrase/meme, but just including it for the meme isn't sufficient to merit space. That, or you could unpack it and explain why this mattered, which is currently lacking.

[Praeceps]

I support this fully and it overall represents a strong piece of work.

I want to join those who think the inconsistent naming convention in the mentorship clause is just a bit odd, regardless of legality. I also think the clause itself is a little odd--to say Roavin should be commended for his work in mentoring those players somewhat downplays those players' roles in their own success. I also don't think the purpose of the Defender Family Tree (Google Docs link) is to credit mentorship quite like this, rather it's to trace differences in tactics and ideology over time and also to observe how those things evolved throughout the lineages. For example, Roavin mentored Somyrion, and in that we can see some interesting methodological and ideological similarities as well as differences, and to say Roavin should be commended on the basis of Somy's work (which this clause would seem to suggest) is a bit flawed.

I also think the Curious Observations clause should either be cut or expanded upon. I get "Curious Observations ... [was] right" is a Roavin catchphrase/meme, but just including it for the meme isn't sufficient to merit space. That, or you could unpack it and explain why this mattered, which is currently lacking.

I think it makes sense to use what is most popular/commonly known by nations. Your instructions for the Defender Family Tree were to "identify yourself and one other nation you identify as being your primary mentor as a defender." Based on those instructions, a number of players identified Roavin as their mentor. I don't see it as that phrase as commending Roavin for work others have done but rather commending Roavin for being influential in building the defender community personally.

As for CO, the impact of the actions of Roavin there were quite impactful in bringing attention to the subterfuge in the region. I can see about adding more information to that clause.

Your support is appreciated.

[Vippertooth33]

Hi all, final call for suggestions as I will be submitting this in a few days.

[Quebecshire]

Full support, and I intend to encourage our delegate to approve once it is submitted.

[Outer Sparta]

Hi all, final call for suggestions as I will be submitting this in a few days.

I think you should be good with submission here (provided I did not overlook it if it were already submitted but failed to reach quorum)! Looks well-written and good luck!

[Tinhampton]

My only concern is the one Refuge had earlier about "Phoenix" and other nicknames in the APPLAUDING clause - they may be legal but bored people are going to be looking at Commend Roavin in the Passed SC Resolutions thread fifteen years from now and won't have a clue who half of these people even are

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Hi all, final call for suggestions as I will be submitting this in a few days.

Reread it again and I still think this is a very good piece of work. Good luck!

[Vippertooth33]

Aaaaaand, we are live: https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1614679206

Thank you for all the feedback!

[Indusse]

Approved.... and all the best on this proposal!

[Eumaeus]

Celebrating Roavin’s contributions to the just and noble cause of defending during their service as First Warden of the defender region The Order of the Grey Wardens, where over the course of a year they:

Personally, I think that "where" should be "during which", but it is not grammatically incorrect and saying "during" twice in the same sentence may be a bit repetitive.

Applauding Roavin’s work as a mentor for well known and respected defenders including the current WA Secretary-General and commended nation Kuriko, as well as Nakari, Merlin, Aumeltopia, Phoenix, Omega, and Pyrohy,

Technically in this instance it should be "well-known" with a hyphen, but that's a fairly small error in the grand scheme of things.

Astounded by Roavin’s sheer determination to protect innocent regions completing well over 1600 defenses and liberations, most notably:

There should be a comma between "regions" and "completing".

Developing a technique in 2017 that allowed greater accuracy whilst defending regions, in spite of usual limitations such as size or proximity to large regions that would otherwise make some regions hard to defend,

This is purely a word choice suggestion in case this somehow isn't the final draft, but I think "circumventing" would flow better and assign more agency to Roavin than "in spite of".

The creation of the “Hunter Prime Operations Technology” in 2016; increasing organisation and operational security for defender communication channels,

Consistency issue: all other items in this list begin an "-ing" verb.

Impressed by Roavin’s significant contributions to The South Pacific (TSP) over several years in a variety of areas which have made TSP more secure; including:

Stylistically, I think "the region" would work better than "TSP". Conventionally, it should be "that" instead of "which". Grammatically, that semicolon is not being used correctly and should be a comma.

Serving as interim Minister of Foreign Affairs for TSP during an attempted coup of The East Pacific, coordinating TSP’s response by mobilizing TSP’s military and their citizens’ militia as well as disseminating progress updates to TSP citizens,

Some minor editing suggestions.

Comprehensive judicial reform to simplify the judicial system, eliminate loopholes, and transform the court into a non-adversarial system,

The same consistency issue as before: all other items in this list begin an "-ing" verb.

Rewriting the transparency laws to ensure it applies to the Court as well as the Executive, requiring thorough documentation, and permitting auditing,

Are the underlined sections actions attributable to the transparency laws that are being cited or are they separate policies? If it's the former then that second comma is unnecessary (and is, in fact, muddling comprehensibility).

Creating the Legislator Committee which streamlined the bureaucratic system in which new representatives are acclimated to the legislature.

This clause ends in a period despite every other clause (with the exception of the operative clause) ending in a comma.

Despite the length of my critique (which is mostly just a reflection of the proposal's length), this is a very well-written and well-argued proposal. The vast majority of the feedback that I have provided above are minor stylistic suggestions; even though there are a handful of actual grammar corrections, there aren't nearly enough to justify pulling the currently submitted proposal. Structurally, while this proposal does go ham with its use of lists, it does so in a well-executed manner that enhances what was already its greatest strength: it is extremely informative. While individual-clause resolutions tend to have an advantage in enhancing rhetoric and ability to argue one's case, list formatting gives the advantage of organizing large quantities of information that would be incomprehensible in the individual-clause format, making it well-suited to the extensive list of accomplishments prepared by the authors in this case.

Regarding substance issues that have been discussed throughout the thread: I've been gone for too long to really have anything to say regarding the "Developing a technique that allows greater accuracy..." line, as I do not have an informed opinion. Additionally, while I agree with Sedge's ruling regarding the use of handles as informal nation names (it's the exact same logic behind referring to "the Kingdom of the Netherlands" as "Holland") I nonetheless don't like people actually doing so.

Regardless, I think this is a well-written proposal for a worthy candidate.

[The Stalker]

Full support!

[Wallenburg]

My office cannot vote in favor of this proposal. Mention of the illegitimate election of Kuriko to the position of Secretary-General host, except in terms of the strongest condemnation of such illegal usurpations of authority, demands automatic opposition. Wallenburg shall continue to recognize Secretary-General Catherine Gratwick, may her wrath be meted out justly.

[The Python]

Full support. Roavin is a well-deserving candidate for a commend. Hope this passes!

[Praeceps]

Thanks for all the support! Glad to see this passing so well.

Despite the length of my critique (which is mostly just a reflection of the proposal's length), this is a very well-written and well-argued proposal. The vast majority of the feedback that I have provided above are minor stylistic suggestions; even though there are a handful of actual grammar corrections, there aren't nearly enough to justify pulling the currently submitted proposal.

Wouldn't have had an issue incorporating most of this if not all (didn't pay too close attention just enough to make sure there was nothing too important) but oh well. Thanks anyways!

Structurally, while this proposal does go ham with its use of lists, it does so in a well-executed manner that enhances what was already its greatest strength: it is extremely informative. While individual-clause resolutions tend to have an advantage in enhancing rhetoric and ability to argue one's case, list formatting gives the advantage of organizing large quantities of information that would be incomprehensible in the individual-clause format, making it well-suited to the extensive list of accomplishments prepared by the authors in this case.

I have been a staunch proponent of lists. They make it extremely easier to digest information as you mention as compared to individual-clause resolutions. I have seen complaints that proposals are "just a list"—those critics remain ignorant that the overwhelmingly vast majority of C/Cs are lists even if it is just not formatted clearly as such.

Regardless, I think this is a well-written proposal for a worthy candidate.

Glad to hear you think it's well-written and that Roavin is worthy.

[Altmoras]

Nobody remembers that Roavin was MoRA.