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[PASSED] Commend Roavin

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Vippertooth33
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[PASSED] Commend Roavin

Postby Vippertooth33 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:56 pm

First attempt at writing a SC proposal, big thanks to Praeceps for your guidance and patience, I enjoyed collaborating with you.

Feedback welcome :)

The Security Council,

Recognising the selflessness of Roavin as a resolute protector and public servant to regions across the NationStates community,

Celebrating Roavin’s contributions to the just and noble cause of defending through their service as First Warden of the defender region The Order of the Grey Wardens, where over the course of a year they:
  1. Tripled membership of the Wardens, ensuring more regions were able to be protected,
  2. Led the creation of the Guardian program, empowering less active defending nations to contribute to operations through focusing on detag and piling, providing a basis for future success,
  3. Created an advanced registry of nations in regions which could be mobilized in the event a defence was required,

Applauding Roavin’s work as a mentor for well known and respected defenders including the current WA Secretary-General and commended nation Kuriko, as well as Nakari, Merlin, Aumeltopia, Phoenix, Omega, and Pyrohy,

Astounded by Roavin’s sheer determination to protect innocent regions with Roavin completing well over 1600 defenses and liberations, most notably:
  1. Leading a liberating force of 49 nations against an occupation of Japan in 2017,
  2. Liberating the Philippines just in time to save Christmas,
  3. Besting an updater raiding force of 25 nations to help defend Portugal,

Acknowledging Roavin’s strategic, technologic and coding abilities, which have enabled thousands of defensive victories in raided regions, including but not limited to:
  1. Developing a technique that allows greater accuracy whilst defending regions, in spite of usual limitations such as size or proximity to large regions that would otherwise make some regions hard to defend,
  2. Establishing strategies to ensure that the endorsements of a large liberating force are placed in an accurate and timely manner,
  3. Training organisations with the attrition run technique to dislodge raiders with large influence levels,
  4. The creation of the “Hunter Prime Operations Technology” in 2016; increasing organisation and operational security for defender communication channels,

Impressed by Roavin’s significant contributions to The South Pacific (TSP) over several years in a variety of areas which have contributed to providing stability and making TSP more secure; including:
  1. Serving as the Prime Minister of the region for five terms, where they emphasized forum discussions for Cabinet over instant communication media improving record keeping and quality of discussion, introduced initiatives aimed at increasing transparency and addressed communication issues between the Ministry of Regional Affairs and the Assembly,
  2. Serving as interim Minister of Foreign Affairs for TSP during an attempted coup of The East Pacific, coordinating TSP’s response which included mobilizing TSP’s military and their citizens’ militia as well as disseminating progress updates to TSP citizens,
  3. Authoring “Commend Tsunamy”, a successful Security Council Resolution that recognised a nation for their contributions to the stability of TSP,
  4. Notably involved in improvements to TSP’s legislation through collaboration in creating premises, writing legislation, or lobbying for the passage of legislation such as:

    1. Comprehensive judicial reform to simplify the judicial system, eliminate loopholes, and transform the court into a non-adversarial system,
    2. Rewriting the transparency laws to ensure it applies to the Court as well as the Executive, requiring thorough documentation, and permitting auditing,
    3. Empowering the Council of Regional Security to utilize border control,
    4. Creating the Legislator Committee that streamlined the bureaucratic system in which new representatives are acclimated to the legislature.

Noting that the Curious Observations made by Roavin on the state of Lazarus in July 2017 were right, and that they exposed corruption and subterfuge within the region,

Extolling the dedicated service of Roavin in the noble struggle to prevent the advance of the Nazi/Fascist menace, as evidenced by them:
  1. Uniting multiple major regions with varying ideologies to fight Nazis/Fascists through founding the organization Ruining Nazi Sandcastles,
  2. Supporting liberating the regions The Red States and The Empire of Lights from Nazi/Fascist control through serving as a border control officer and planning the operations,
  3. Providing logistics support in the The Union Of The Fascist Nations operation, a region just short of 700 Fascist nations at its peak,
  4. Co-ordinating, planning, strategising the raids against Nazi Imperialist Japan and Elite Region Of Global Command, securing the demise of these hateful regions,

Believing Roavin’s contributions have made an immense positive impact on the international community, hereby,

Commends Roavin.

Co-authored by Praeceps


The Security Council,

Recognising the selflessness of Roavin as a resolute protector and public servant to regions across the NationStates community,

Celebrating Roavin’s contributions to the just and noble cause of defending through their service as First Warden of the defender region The Order of the Grey Wardens, where over the course of a year they:
  1. Tripled membership of the Wardens, ensuring more regions were able to be protected,
  2. Led the creation of the Guardian program, empowering less active defending nations to contribute to operations through focusing on detag and piling, providing a basis for future success,
  3. Created an advanced registry of nations in regions which could be mobilized in the event a defence was required,

Applauding Roavin’s work as a mentor for well known and respected defenders including the current WA Secretary-General and commended nation Kuriko, as well as Nakari, Merlin, Aumeltopia, Phoenix, Omega, and Pyrohy,

Astounded by Roavin’s sheer determination to protect innocent regions with Roavin completing well over 1600 defenses and liberations, most notably:
  1. Leading a liberating force of 49 nations against an occupation of Japan in 2017,
  2. Liberating the Philippines just in time to save the Christmas holidays,
  3. Besting an active raiding force of 25 nations to help defend Portugal,

Acknowledging Roavin’s strategic and technological abilities, which have enabled thousands of defensive victories in raided regions, including but not limited to:
  1. Developing a technique, in 2017, that allowed greater accuracy whilst defending regions, in spite of usual limitations such as size or proximity to large regions that would otherwise make some regions hard to defend,
  2. Establishing strategies to ensure that the endorsements of a large liberating force are placed in an accurate and timely manner,
  3. Training organisations with the attrition run technique to dislodge raiders with large influence levels,
  4. The creation of the “Hunter Prime Operations Technology” in 2016; increasing organisation and operational security for defender communication channels,

Impressed by Roavin’s significant contributions to The South Pacific (TSP) over several years in a variety of areas which have contributed to providing stability and making TSP more secure; including:
  1. Serving as the Prime Minister of the region for five terms, where they emphasized forum discussions for Cabinet over instant communication media improving record keeping and quality of discussion, introduced initiatives aimed at increasing transparency and addressed communication issues between the Ministry of Regional Affairs and the Assembly,
  2. Serving as interim Minister of Foreign Affairs for TSP during an attempted coup of The East Pacific, coordinating TSP’s response which included mobilizing TSP’s military and their citizens’ militia as well as disseminating progress updates to TSP citizens,
  3. Authoring “Commend Tsunamy”, a successful Security Council Resolution that recognised a nation for their contributions to the stability of TSP,
  4. Notably involved in improvements to TSP’s legislation through collaboration in creating premises, writing legislation, or lobbying for the passage of legislation such as:

    1. Comprehensive judicial reform to simplify the judicial system, eliminate loopholes, and transform the court into a non-adversarial system,
    2. Rewriting the transparency laws to ensure it applies to the Court as well as the Executive, requiring thorough documentation, and permitting auditing,
    3. Empowering the Council of Regional Security to utilize border control,
    4. Creating the Legislator Committee that streamlined the bureaucratic system in which new representatives are acclimated to the legislature.

Noting that the Curious Observations made by Roavin on the state of Lazarus in July 2017 were right, and that they exposed corruption and subterfuge within the region,

Extolling the dedicated service of Roavin in the noble struggle to prevent the advance of the Nazi/Fascist menace, as evidenced by them:
  1. Uniting multiple major regions with varying ideologies to fight Nazis/Fascists through founding the organization Ruining Nazi Sandcastles,
  2. Supporting liberating the regions The Red States and The Empire of Lights from Nazi/Fascist control through serving as a border control officer and planning the operations,
  3. Providing logistics support in the Union Of The Fascist Nations operation, a region just short of 700 Fascist nations at its peak,
  4. Co-ordinating, planning, strategising the raids against Nazi Imperialist Japan and Elite Region Of Global Command, securing the demise of these hateful regions,

Believing Roavin’s contributions have made an immense positive impact on the international community, hereby,

Commends Roavin.

Co-authored by Praeceps


The Security Council,

Recognising the selflessness of Roavin as a resolute protector and public servant to regions across the NationStates community,

Celebrating Roavin’s contributions to the just and noble cause of defending during their service as First Warden of the defender region The Order of the Grey Wardens, where over the course of a year they:
  1. Tripled membership of the Wardens, ensuring more regions were able to be protected,
  2. Led the creation of the Guardian program, empowering less active defending nations to contribute to operations through focusing on detag and piling, providing a basis for future success,
  3. Created an advanced registry of nations in regions which could be mobilized in the event a defence was required,

Applauding Roavin’s work as a mentor for well known and respected defenders including the current WA Secretary-General and commended nation Kuriko, as well as Nakari, Merlin, Aumeltopia, Phoenix, Omega, and Pyrohy,

Astounded by Roavin’s sheer determination to protect innocent regions completing well over 1600 defenses and liberations, most notably:
  1. Leading a liberating force of 49 nations against an occupation of Japan in 2017,
  2. Liberating the Philippines just in time to save the Christmas holidays,
  3. Besting an active raiding force of 25 nations to help defend Portugal,

Acknowledging Roavin’s strategic and technological abilities, which have enabled thousands of defensive victories in raided regions, including but not limited to:
  1. Developing a technique in 2017 that allowed greater accuracy whilst defending regions, in spite of usual limitations such as size or proximity to large regions that would otherwise make some regions hard to defend,
  2. Establishing strategies to ensure that the endorsements of a large liberating force are placed in an accurate and timely manner,
  3. Training organisations in the attrition run technique to dislodge raiders with large influence levels,
  4. The creation of the “Hunter Prime Operations Technology” in 2016; increasing organisation and operational security for defender communication channels,

Impressed by Roavin’s significant contributions to The South Pacific (TSP) over several years in a variety of areas which have made TSP more secure; including:
  1. Serving as the Prime Minister of the region for five terms, where they emphasized Cabinet forum discussions over instant communication media, improving record keeping and quality of discussion, introduced initiatives aimed at increasing transparency and addressed communication issues between the Ministry of Regional Affairs and the Assembly,
  2. Serving as interim Minister of Foreign Affairs for TSP during an attempted coup of The East Pacific, coordinating TSP’s response which included mobilizing TSP’s military and their citizens’ militia as well as disseminating progress updates to TSP citizens,
  3. Authoring “Commend Tsunamy”, a Security Council Resolution that recognised a nation for their contributions to the stability of TSP,
  4. Being notably involved in improvements to TSP’s legislation through collaboration in creating premises, writing legislation, or lobbying for the passage of legislation such as:

    1. Comprehensive judicial reform to simplify the judicial system, eliminate loopholes, and transform the court into a non-adversarial system,
    2. Rewriting the transparency laws to ensure it applies to the Court as well as the Executive, requiring thorough documentation, and permitting auditing,
    3. Empowering the Council of Regional Security to utilize border control,
    4. Creating the Legislator Committee which streamlined the bureaucratic system in which new representatives are acclimated to the legislature.

Noting that the Curious Observations made by Roavin on the state of Lazarus in July 2017 were right, and that they exposed corruption and subterfuge within the region,

Extolling the dedicated service of Roavin in the noble struggle to prevent the advance of the Nazi/Fascist menace, as evidenced by them:
  1. Uniting multiple major regions with varying ideologies to fight Nazis/Fascists through founding the organization Ruining Nazi Sandcastles,
  2. Supporting liberating the regions The Red States and The Empire of Lights from Nazi/Fascist control through serving as a border control officer and planning the operations,
  3. Providing logistics support in the Union Of The Fascist Nations operation, a region just short of 700 Fascist nations at its peak,
  4. Coordinating, planning, strategising the raids against Nazi Imperialist Japan and Elite Region Of Global Command, and securing the demise of these hateful regions,

Believing Roavin’s contributions have made an immense positive impact on the international community, hereby,

Commends Roavin.

Co-authored by Praeceps
Last edited by Reploid Productions on Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:09 pm

Astounded ii: Why am I so convinced that this is actually a pun about the region Christmas and not a description of a very well-timed defence?

Applauding: Are we going to be referring to Kingdom of Circle of Magi, United Federated Stated of Omega and FiHami by their nicknames here? Or is this because you're about 32 characters below the limit? :P

Extolling iii: The correct name of the invaded region was "Union of the Fascist Nations" (with no "The").
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Praeceps
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Postby Praeceps » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:04 am

Tinhampton wrote:Astounded ii: Why am I so convinced that this is actually a pun about the region Christmas and not a description of a very well-timed defence?

Applauding: Are we going to be referring to Kingdom of Circle of Magi, United Federated Stated of Omega and FiHami by their nicknames here? Or is this because you're about 32 characters below the limit? :P

Extolling iii: The correct name of the invaded region was "Union of the Fascist Nations" (with no "The").

On the applauding clause: the more recognizable names have been used and that helping to make the proposal shorter is an added bonus. :P

Getting the draft within the character limit was quite difficult.
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Refuge Isle
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Postby Refuge Isle » Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:50 am

Praeceps wrote:Getting the draft within the character limit was quite difficult.

The character limit is regrettably pre-formatting. So, by my best guess, the proposal is at least 45ish characters over the limit.

Not sure exactly how many because I remember line breaks being a little different than whatever I thought they were.
Last edited by Refuge Isle on Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fauxia
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Postby Fauxia » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:58 am

I vaguely recall the mods ruling that the use of the word "forum" or "forums" was almost always illegal.

In context, I’m pretty sure it is illegal here. Though I have no knowledge of this incident, It’s pretty clear you’re referring to moving cabinet discussions from discord to TSP’s forums.
Last edited by Fauxia on Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:02 am

Fauxia wrote:I vaguely recall the mods ruling that the use of the word "forum" or "forums" was almost always illegal.

In context, I’m pretty sure it is illegal here. Though I have no knowledge of this incident, It’s pretty clear you’re referring to moving cabinet discussions from discord to TSP’s forums.

I don't believe it is illegal. It's only when it is clearly referring to the electronic entity. If you read this resolution without context, this does not do that. Anyways, if a moderator could clarify, that would be helpful.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:13 am

There’s a couple of clauses that may be problematical from a R2(a) perspective:

Besting an updater raiding force of 25 nations to help defend Portugal,

I would question the use of the word “updater”.

Training organisations with the attrition run technique to dislodge raiders with large influence levels,

“Attrition run technique”, does sound like something found in a game.

Best to get a legality check before progressing with these phrases in the draft.

Edit: overall though this looks a good effort, but needs some work, I think, on how the nominee’s achievements are ordered. I’ll get back to you on that later.
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Comfed » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:47 am

Applauding Roavin’s work as a mentor for well known and respected defenders including the current WA Secretary-General and commended nation Kuriko, as well as Nakari, Merlin, Aumeltopia, Phoenix, Omega, and Pyrohy,

So here you list these people Roavin mentored, but there’s an inconsistency in that you use the player name for some (ex. Phoenix, who’s main nation is FiHami) and you use the nation name for others (ex. Aumeltopia, who’s player name is Somyrion)
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Sedgistan
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Postby Sedgistan » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:57 am

"attrition run technique" sounds fine to me. "coding abilities" is more iffy. "forum discussions for Cabinet over instant communication media" is okay.

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Postby Pluvie » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:30 pm

So I have a thing, and this might just be personal preference, but this proposal seems to be very... listy. It is a list of lists, describing the accomplishments of a player. And while I do appreciate a good list, having almost every clause be listed is just very claggy and difficult to read. It also feels a lot less personal and more like just listing accomplishments than saying much about the actual person in question. I do think the target is commendable and I agree with most of the content included, I just think it could be better formatted and written to create a more personal proposal that's more diverse in the way it's written.

Also again, I'm just a Schmoe, so a lot of this is just personal preference and I really do prefer proposals with more personality ^-^
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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:32 pm

Pluvie wrote:So I have a thing, and this might just be personal preference, but this proposal seems to be very... listy. It is a list of lists, describing the accomplishments of a player. And while I do appreciate a good list, having almost every clause be listed is just very claggy and difficult to read. It also feels a lot less personal and more like just listing accomplishments than saying much about the actual person in question. I do think the target is commendable and I agree with most of the content included, I just think it could be better formatted and written to create a more personal proposal that's more diverse in the way it's written.

Also again, I'm just a Schmoe, so a lot of this is just personal preference and I really do prefer proposals with more personality ^-^

I don't see how chopping down the resolution into singular clauses will make it any more personal than it already is. Also that would prevent a lot of content from being included.
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Postby The Python » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:23 am

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Praeceps
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Postby Praeceps » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:18 am

Comfed wrote:
Applauding Roavin’s work as a mentor for well known and respected defenders including the current WA Secretary-General and commended nation Kuriko, as well as Nakari, Merlin, Aumeltopia, Phoenix, Omega, and Pyrohy,

So here you list these people Roavin mentored, but there’s an inconsistency in that you use the player name for some (ex. Phoenix, who’s main nation is FiHami) and you use the nation name for others (ex. Aumeltopia, who’s player name is Somyrion)

I went with what I felt was the most commonly known. In the cause you mentioned, Aumeltopia was TSP's Delegate so I felt that was more well-known.
Pluvie wrote:So I have a thing, and this might just be personal preference, but this proposal seems to be very... listy. It is a list of lists, describing the accomplishments of a player. And while I do appreciate a good list, having almost every clause be listed is just very claggy and difficult to read. It also feels a lot less personal and more like just listing accomplishments than saying much about the actual person in question. I do think the target is commendable and I agree with most of the content included, I just think it could be better formatted and written to create a more personal proposal that's more diverse in the way it's written.

Also again, I'm just a Schmoe, so a lot of this is just personal preference and I really do prefer proposals with more personality ^-^

I have heard this criticism of proposals before, not in reference to my own but in general and I continued to be confused by it. All commendations/condemnations are lists detailing what a nation or a region accomplished as far as I see. It's interesting to hear that you find the BB code of lists making the proposal harder to read and I'd be interested in hearing more about that. I take the view that they improve a proposal since they help segment sections of the proposal (instead of just having continuous text) and makes it easier to identify like clauses.
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Twobagger
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Postby Twobagger » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:56 pm

Vippertooth33 wrote:
The Security Council,
[...]
Acknowledging Roavin’s strategic, technologic and coding abilities, which have enabled thousands of defensive victories in raided regions, including but not limited to:
  1. Developing a technique that allows greater accuracy whilst defending regions, in spite of usual limitations such as size or proximity to large regions that would otherwise make some regions hard to defend,
[...]

This clause was more than a little eyebrow-raising, since the "proximity to large regions" brings to mind this thread made in Technical by Roavin. In it, he complains that raiders have made it impossible for defenders to win defensive victories in raided regions, specifically because raiders are creating large regions close to the raided regions.
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Numero Capitan
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Postby Numero Capitan » Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:54 pm

Twobagger wrote:
Vippertooth33 wrote:

This clause was more than a little eyebrow-raising, since the "proximity to large regions" brings to mind this thread made in Technical by Roavin. In it, he complains that raiders have made it impossible for defenders to win defensive victories in raided regions, specifically because raiders are creating large regions close to the raided regions.


And then he devised tech that defenders needed to help adjust to the tactic within less than 48 hours, which is what it refers to and demonstrates exactly why Roavin is assuredly commendable.

So whilst you were all chuckling at him for that thread he was quietly outplaying you all.
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Twobagger
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Postby Twobagger » Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:27 pm

Numero Capitan wrote:And then he devised tech that defenders needed to help adjust to the tactic within less than 48 hours, which is what it refers to and demonstrates exactly why Roavin is assuredly commendable.

So whilst you were all chuckling at him for that thread he was quietly outplaying you all.

You usually only call it "outplaying us all" when you win.

I am just saying that it seems like a very odd choice in a resolution that should ostensibly be celebrating a player's skill and competence. Commendations are usually a string of the nominee's greatest highlights, but this one also includes the highest-profile military defeat in recent history. Before you think it was just us snickering at him, The Defender Awards had this to say:

Benevolent Thomas wrote:The Worst Invasion/Operation Award
Welcome to the other side of the Opportation of the Year Coin! Nominees for this award are the most memorable defending operations of the year for all of the wrong reasons. This could be due to defender incompetence or invader excellence. Japan’s nomination is the direct result of mismanagement on the defender side. South Pacific’s nomination is due Invader excellence in the face of carelessness on the defender side. We’ll hear about how defenders initially reacted to the failed liberation attempts of South Pacific later, but they were able to turn things around and had begun to mount a real, competent resistance when the occupying forces of South Pacific concluded their mission and withdrew. It is due to the combination of defender mistakes and invader competency that the Liberation of South Pacific receives the Worst Invasion/Operation Award.
[...]
Meltdown of the Year
I’m at a bit of a loss as to how to describe this award. I guess I’d say it’s a snapshot of a less-than graceful moment in the past year that we all recognize as one that could have been handled better. This year’s meltdown is a good one; one I’d imagine being used as an argument for keeping the award around in the future. It was born out of the loose lips of defenders and the cunning of invaders. The reaction to the events that unfolded in South Pacific are what cement its legacy. The shock of defeat at the hands of a new strategy originally cooked up by its would-be victims led to a notorious overreaction by defenders who were then mocked by the community at large and even site staff. The implications of these events have yet to be fully fleshed out and could shape the direction of Gameplay over the next year. The Failed Liberation of South Pacific and Liberations are now literally impossible easily walked away with the win.

And indeed, there was bound to be some snickering done about the fragility of defenders, especially given the circumstances: a high-profile defender ran to moderation to solve their Gameplay problem after getting roundly outplayed by raiders, over a problem that according to you wasn't very difficult to solve anyway (since he solved it in 48 hours, apparently in his free time!). Frankly, it seems like kind of a bizarre thing to include in a Commendation. I was kind of unsure about whether to bring it up at all, since for a raider, celebrating one of a defender's most high-profile defeat in his Commendation is kind of funny. It's the kind of thing I'd have put in a Commendation of a defender if I wanted to troll them. But I have a good deal of respect for both of the authors, who might not have been aware of the associations that the clause in question brings to mind. So I thought I'd point it out.
Last edited by Twobagger on Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The views expressed above are mine alone, and not necessarily those of any region. Currently a member of The Black Hawks.
Lord Dominator wrote: Defender of the Year: Twobagger

Defender Awards 2019 wrote:The Sir Lans Award

[...]

The winner of the Award this year is Twobagger of the Ten Thousand Islands Treaty Organisation (TITO), who has willingly assisted in so many operations regardless of the region leading them. Congratulations Twobagger!
Benevolent Thomas wrote:Twobagger: +15 For Tactical Genius
Dr J. T. Bagger, M.Def, B Chasing (Hons)

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Numero Capitan
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Postby Numero Capitan » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:35 am

It is a shame that the specifics that the clause is referring to have gone over your head but his contributions have been very commendable in this area, stretching back around four years - and he made his work more accessible following South Pacific to allow any Libcord commander to benefit from his work.

The snark just doesn't cut right when its coming from someone who turned the game mode down to easy, thanks for your non-contribution to the drafting process though.
Last edited by Numero Capitan on Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Miss Bad Life Choices
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Founded: Feb 12, 2018
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Postby Miss Bad Life Choices » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:11 pm

Genuinely not trying to be mean here and at risk of just sounding like Im repeating twobagger, but is "Developing a technique that allows greater accuracy whilst defending regions, in spite of usual limitations such as size or proximity to large regions that would otherwise make some regions hard to defend" referring to South Pacific? If it is, I think it should be removed as the South Pacific liberation attempts didn't even jump into the target on more then one update. If there's another case of Roavin using this technique to get around triggerfucking/update bending for an op, may be best to specifically name the operation that it was helpful for to show a successful use of the technique :)

Also not enough puns ;p

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Last edited by Miss Bad Life Choices on Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:20 pm

Shock. Horror. TBH who keep losing their ops to Roavin are against Roavin getting commended.

I'm for as he did all the other stuff, but more importantly is cool and made really cool stuff/did lots for N Day, both 2020 and the years before.
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Miss Bad Life Choices
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Postby Miss Bad Life Choices » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:37 pm

Flanderlion wrote:Shock. Horror. TBH who keep losing their ops to Roavin are against Roavin getting commended.

Despite being a hawk and on the opposing side, am fine with Roavin/defenders being commended x) He's played the defender role well and makes more sense for a commend then some of the commend attempts that's popped up here in the last year or so ;p
Dakota Vytherov-Skollvaldr
Overseer of Blade/Council of Hawks & Colonel of The Black Hawks
Pharaoh of the Osiris Fraternal Order

Xoriet: You’re the best thing to hit raiding since Sev
Miravana: "the accident" is the best way to describe Dak becoming a GCR delegate

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Twobagger
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Founded: Jan 20, 2007
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Postby Twobagger » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:09 pm

Flanderlion wrote:Shock. Horror. TBH who keep losing their ops to Roavin are against Roavin getting commended.

I'm for as he did all the other stuff, but more importantly is cool and made really cool stuff/did lots for N Day, both 2020 and the years before.

There's no need to engage like this. As a former member of TITO Command, I'm well aware of the contributions Roavin has made to defending. I'm fine with him being Commended, and he probably should have already been commended. I'm not going to just blanket oppose all commendations of worthy people, especially ones that I've worked with before, just because they're on the other side now. That would honestly be pretty scummy to do.

Unfortunately, defenders haven't liberated one of our ops since I was a defender commander. That was the point of my posts: they had a terrific opportunity to do just that in the region South Pacific with Roavin in charge, when defenders gathered the largest update force ever (up to that point) twice in a row. They then failed to jump twice in a row. Roavin then posted that thread I linked, and disclosed on Discord that he had relied on a tool that sounds like the one in the clause I referenced in my post.

That's why the reference stuck out: Roavin has had a long and storied career, and has succeeded often in important roles. But the clause stuck out, and not in a good way, because it brings to mind a high profile failure for someone like me who has been very involved in recent R/D struggles.
Last edited by Twobagger on Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The views expressed above are mine alone, and not necessarily those of any region. Currently a member of The Black Hawks.
Lord Dominator wrote: Defender of the Year: Twobagger

Defender Awards 2019 wrote:The Sir Lans Award

[...]

The winner of the Award this year is Twobagger of the Ten Thousand Islands Treaty Organisation (TITO), who has willingly assisted in so many operations regardless of the region leading them. Congratulations Twobagger!
Benevolent Thomas wrote:Twobagger: +15 For Tactical Genius
Dr J. T. Bagger, M.Def, B Chasing (Hons)

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Jakker
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Founded: May 17, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jakker » Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:56 am

Flanderlion wrote:Shock. Horror. TBH who keep losing their ops to Roavin are against Roavin getting commended.


The fact that you took two people providing opinions about a single line in this proposal and then added false information to beef up your argument that TBH is against the commendation shows how weak that argument was to begin with.
Last edited by Jakker on Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Varanius
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Postby Varanius » Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:50 am

Good luck with this!
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Refuge Isle
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Posts: 664
Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:25 pm

As I see this draft was submitted and marked as legal by Sedge,

Vippertooth33 wrote:Applauding Roavin’s work as a mentor for well known and respected defenders including the current WA Secretary-General and commended nation Kuriko, as well as Nakari, Merlin, Aumeltopia, Phoenix, Omega, and Pyrohy,


I'm concerned about the wording of this clause in particular, since I'm not sure how it makes sense, IC.

Phoenix does not control a nation named Phoenix, for example. A nation named Phoenix exists, but it's most certainly not controlled by her. The same is true of Merlin and Omega, I believe.

This strikes me as a rule 2(b) violation for referring to players by their handles and not by their nations.
Last edited by Refuge Isle on Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Praeceps
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Founded: Feb 08, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Praeceps » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:18 pm

I disagree that that rule 2b is violated in that manner. The clause does not state that those names are players.
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