NationStates

We all know who TNI was, the acts they did and the imperialist ideas they espoused. The war they declared on the FRA and defenders in general, which lead to the FRAs downfall. It is time to free TNI and allow those wronged by the region to have their retribution. Help making this resolution better would be appreciated!

The Security Council,

Naming the target of this resolution to remove a password to be The New Inquisition (hereafter known as TNI), a region which had no regard for the regional sovereignty of others during the years it was active;

Believing that when TNI violated the sovereignty of other regions like previously said before they gave up any rights they had to protect their regional borders, borders which have become vulnerable time and time again as the founding nation continually ceases to exist;

Listing two kinds of the various violations of regional sovereignty to be:

• The support and execution of multiple coups d’etat within the Feeder and Sinker regions of The East Pacific (2008 Empire Coup), Osiris (2013 Gatesville coup), and The Rejected Realms (2012 UIAF coup),
  
• The attack on innocent communities such as Canada, Scotland, Valhalla, Australia, and Middle Earth by TNI's armed forces for no stated purpose.

Arguing once again that the listed attacks, although perpetrated many years ago at this point, are more than enough reason to deny TNI the ability to protect their region in their multiple states of vulnerability;

Stating that the mission of this body is to "spread peace and goodwill, via force if necessary", and that this resolution will do just that by spreading goodwill through allowing the forces of the defender world to strike back at a region that once crushed innocent communities under its heels;

Seeing that the founder nation has once again returned from ceasing to exist, but determined to not let that get in the way of justice being delivered upon those who violate the regional sovereignty of others both currently and in the past;

Hereby Liberates The New Inquisition.

Starfyre wrote:Noting that although it may look like TNI was passworded benignly by native forces, they were actually brutally annexed and subjugated by their allies within The Land of Kings and Emperors who removed long time native nations with no warning

I am not really following your logic. Are you saying that Onder and company are not natives of TNI? Also what makes you think that nations were removed with no warning?

Opposed. I cannot see this as anything other than the first step of a brazen attempt to refound TNI under the flag of defenderdom - especially the ARGUING clause.

Starfyre was (as Kuriko) the former WA Delegate of 10000 Islands. The mission statement of the Ten thousand Islands Treaty Organisation, XKI's military, is clear that "when a region is unjustly invaded, not only will we hold the option of defending that region in whatever manner we see fit, but we also hold the option of attacking the attacking regions [sic] homeland itself."

Jakker wrote:

Starfyre wrote:Noting that although it may look like TNI was passworded benignly by native forces, they were actually brutally annexed and subjugated by their allies within The Land of Kings and Emperors who removed long time native nations with no warning

I am not really following your logic. Are you saying that Onder and company are not natives of TNI? Also what makes you think that nations were removed with no warning?

Onderkelkia usurped the region to be a subject of the LKE, effectively killing the region in the end. He brought in the military forces of LKE to password it instead of contacting the native delegate or using his own WA to lock the region down, usurping the native community. As to native removal, see from this post after https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=29673597. I admit, it does need to be written better.

Anyone who thinks this would ever actually pass is lying to themself. It’s a laughable attempt to shove what might as well be a defender propaganda piece through the SC that won’t work, but it’ll be fun watching the proposal be stomped, I’ll give you that.

Starfyre wrote:

Jakker wrote:
I am not really following your logic. Are you saying that Onder and company are not natives of TNI? Also what makes you think that nations were removed with no warning?

Onderkelkia usurped the region to be a subject of the LKE, effectively killing the region in the end. He brought in the military forces of LKE to password it instead of contacting the native delegate or using his own WA to lock the region down, usurping the native community. As to native removal, see from this post after https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=29673597. I admit, it does need to be written better.

Trying to argue that someone who was in leadership positions within the region for nearly the entirety of its existence is not a native of the region is even a stretch for you. And how would the SC know that the one nation opposed is not just a defender in disguise?

But since you seem so concerned for the natives, I imagine you are going to seek out an actual native of TNI who wants the region to be liberated. You always say how important native input is.

Varanius wrote:Anyone who thinks this would ever actually pass is lying to themself. It’s a laughable attempt to shove what might as well be a defender propaganda piece through the SC that won’t work, but it’ll be fun watching the proposal be stomped, I’ll give you that.

It'll also be fun watching and participating in the conversation around it .

Jakker wrote:

Starfyre wrote:Onderkelkia usurped the region to be a subject of the LKE, effectively killing the region in the end. He brought in the military forces of LKE to password it instead of contacting the native delegate or using his own WA to lock the region down, usurping the native community. As to native removal, see from this post after https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=29673597. I admit, it does need to be written better.

Trying to argue that someone who was in leadership positions within the region for nearly the entirety of its existence is not a native of the region is even a stretch for you. And how would the SC know that the one nation opposed is not just a defender in disguise?

But since you seem so concerned for the natives, I imagine you are going to seek out an actual native of TNI who wants the region to be liberated. You always say how important native input is.

Raiders should reap what they sow, I've never been against that hence why I'm in XKI. You, and other raiders, don't get to claim nativism as a defense when it's your turn to become vulnerable.

Starfyre wrote:

Varanius wrote:Anyone who thinks this would ever actually pass is lying to themself. It’s a laughable attempt to shove what might as well be a defender propaganda piece through the SC that won’t work, but it’ll be fun watching the proposal be stomped, I’ll give you that.

It'll also be fun watching and participating in the conversation around it .

We could certainly use more things to do.

Starfyre wrote:

Jakker wrote:
Trying to argue that someone who was in leadership positions within the region for nearly the entirety of its existence is not a native of the region is even a stretch for you. And how would the SC know that the one nation opposed is not just a defender in disguise?

But since you seem so concerned for the natives, I imagine you are going to seek out an actual native of TNI who wants the region to be liberated. You always say how important native input is.

Raiders should reap what they sow, I've never been against that hence why I'm in XKI. You, and other raiders, don't get to claim nativism as a defense when it's your turn to become vulnerable.

If you want to raid TNI because it is TNI then just say that. Don't need to lie with added fluff about natives. You were the one that started the argument about "nativism." It also shows the weakness of your argument that you needed to add that fake fluff in the first place.

Jakker wrote:

Starfyre wrote:Raiders should reap what they sow, I've never been against that hence why I'm in XKI. You, and other raiders, don't get to claim nativism as a defense when it's your turn to become vulnerable.

If you want to raid TNI because it is TNI then just say that. Don't need to lie with added fluff about natives. You were the one that started the argument about "nativism." It also shows the weakness of your argument that you needed to add that fake fluff in the first place.

To be quite truthful, I don't know why I put it in there. I was having a hard time coming up with content and my normal liberation writing took over, which isn't that great.

Edit: I re-wrote that clause.

Starfyre wrote:

Varanius wrote:Anyone who thinks this would ever actually pass is lying to themself. It’s a laughable attempt to shove what might as well be a defender propaganda piece through the SC that won’t work, but it’ll be fun watching the proposal be stomped, I’ll give you that.

It'll also be fun watching and participating in the conversation around it .

A discussion that leads nowhere and does nothing? You must be more bored than I thought

Tinhampton wrote:Opposed. I cannot see this as anything other than the first step of a brazen attempt to refound TNI under the flag of defenderdom - especially the ARGUING clause.

Starfyre was (as Kuriko) the former WA Delegate of 10000 Islands. The mission statement of the Ten thousand Islands Treaty Organisation, XKI's military, is clear that "when a region is unjustly invaded, not only will we hold the option of defending that region in whatever manner we see fit, but we also hold the option of attacking the attacking regions [sic] homeland itself."

And what's your point Tin? We attack raiders because they attack others, and because those they attack can't attack back themselves. They deserve justice.

Starfyre wrote:To be quite truthful, I don't know why I put it in there. I was having a hard time coming up with content and my normal liberation writing took over, which isn't that great.

I would imagine that if someone is having trouble coming up with content for a SC proposal, it is an indicator that their argument needs work.

Starfyre wrote:

Tinhampton wrote:Opposed. I cannot see this as anything other than the first step of a brazen attempt to refound TNI under the flag of defenderdom - especially the ARGUING clause.

Starfyre was (as Kuriko) the former WA Delegate of 10000 Islands. The mission statement of the Ten thousand Islands Treaty Organisation, XKI's military, is clear that "when a region is unjustly invaded, not only will we hold the option of defending that region in whatever manner we see fit, but we also hold the option of attacking the attacking regions [sic] homeland itself."

And what's your point Tin? We attack raiders because they attack others, and because those they attack can't attack back themselves. They deserve justice.

If I wanted nonsense about “justice” and the evil of raiders, I would have read XKI’s recruitment message, which the SC isn’t. And quite frankly, there are even defenders who’d probably oppose this. It was dead on arrival, but I guess I do have a love of beating dead horses.

Jakker wrote:

Starfyre wrote:To be quite truthful, I don't know why I put it in there. I was having a hard time coming up with content and my normal liberation writing took over, which isn't that great.

I would imagine that if someone is having trouble coming up with content for a SC proposal, it is an indicator that their argument needs work.

Not really, it's an indication of a hectic work life and a brain full of so many other things while at the same time being so tired that it's not even funny. If I took the time to do some research I can fill this out on regions they attacked, what they did to the FRA, and why they deserve the same punishment they metered out upon others.

Starfyre wrote:And what's your point Tin? We attack raiders because they attack others, and because those they attack can't attack back themselves. They deserve justice.

But we both know that is not true. Attacking those who raid has nothing to do with giving justice for natives. It is about defenders being able to do that they perceive will hurt the ones who raid and rub that in their face. Using this fake narrative of natives being the reason why you go after raiders is just silly and shows that you are just using natives to push your own agenda. And this proposal just puts your agenda in plain sight which is to hurt those who raid to rub it in their face. Just focus on that because we all know that is the truth.

Starfyre wrote:

Jakker wrote:
I would imagine that if someone is having trouble coming up with content for a SC proposal, it is an indicator that their argument needs work.

Not really, it's an indication of a hectic work life and a brain full of so many other things while at the same time being so tired that it's not even funny. If I took the time to do some research I can fill this out on regions they attacked, what they did to the FRA, and why they deserve the same punishment they metered out upon others.

Then why not take the time to do that research before posting this in the first place? You have written enough SC proposals to know how things typically work around here.

Jakker wrote:

Starfyre wrote:And what's your point Tin? We attack raiders because they attack others, and because those they attack can't attack back themselves. They deserve justice.

But we both know that is not true. Attacking those who raid has nothing to do with giving justice for natives. It is about defenders being able to do that they perceive will hurt the ones who raid and rub that in their face. Using this fake narrative of natives being the reason why you go after raiders is just silly and shows that you are just using natives to push your own agenda. And this proposal just puts your agenda in plain sight which is to hurt those who raid to rub it in their face. Just focus on that because we all know that is the truth.

Starfyre wrote:Not really, it's an indication of a hectic work life and a brain full of so many other things while at the same time being so tired that it's not even funny. If I took the time to do some research I can fill this out on regions they attacked, what they did to the FRA, and why they deserve the same punishment they metered out upon others.

Then why not take the time to do that research before posting this in the first place? You have written enough SC proposals to know how things typically work around here.

Ah, the great version of Jakker trying to push his own false narrative and believing he knows my motives when I myself do not. You can try to push your own thoughts, but it isn't going to work . Natives deserve to have their payback at raiders who attack them, it just so happens that defender militaries are the ones that are capable of doing so for them.

Edit: And I litterally just said before that I've been too busy to research. Working 10 hours a day, 5am to 3pm, 5 days a week and having family time doesn't give me much free time.

Starfyre wrote:

Jakker wrote:
But we both know that is not true. Attacking those who raid has nothing to do with giving justice for natives. It is about defenders being able to do that they perceive will hurt the ones who raid and rub that in their face. Using this fake narrative of natives being the reason why you go after raiders is just silly and shows that you are just using natives to push your own agenda. And this proposal just puts your agenda in plain sight which is to hurt those who raid to rub it in their face. Just focus on that because we all know that is the truth.



Then why not take the time to do that research before posting this in the first place? You have written enough SC proposals to know how things typically work around here.

Ah, the great version of Jakker trying to push his own false narrative and believing he knows my motives when I myself do not. You can try to push your own thoughts, but it isn't going to work . Natives deserve to have their payback at raiders who attack them, it just so happens that defender militaries are the ones that are capable of doing so for them.

Edit: And I litterally just said before that I've been too busy to research. Working 10 hours a day, 5am to 3pm, 5 days a week and having family time doesn't give me much free time.

If you truly think that this is about giving natives payback, then I am sure you have a list of all the regions that TNI has raided and will reach out to them about this. I would love to hear from natives who have been waiting three years for their revenge. Seems like it is mostly defenders who want revenge. I didn't realize people were still that upset about how much they did against FRA. Losing a war makes people hold grudges I guess. Also again, if you are too busy to write a proposal that has sufficient substance, I am not sure why you feel the need to push this now.

Jakker wrote:

Starfyre wrote:Ah, the great version of Jakker trying to push his own false narrative and believing he knows my motives when I myself do not. You can try to push your own thoughts, but it isn't going to work . Natives deserve to have their payback at raiders who attack them, it just so happens that defender militaries are the ones that are capable of doing so for them.

Edit: And I litterally just said before that I've been too busy to research. Working 10 hours a day, 5am to 3pm, 5 days a week and having family time doesn't give me much free time.

If you truly think that this is about giving natives payback, then I am sure you have a list of all the regions that TNI has raided and will reach out to them about this. I would love to hear from natives who have been waiting three years for their revenge. Seems like it is mostly defenders who want revenge. I didn't realize people were still that upset about how much they did against FRA. Losing a war makes people hold grudges I guess. Also again, if you are too busy to write a proposal that has sufficient substance, I am not sure why you feel the need to push this now.

Fun fact, I wasn't around when the FRA was here. Wouldn't you also hold a grudge against those who you lost a war too? Seems a natural thing. I think the proposal has enough substance but I'll definitely work on fleshing it out .

Starfyre wrote:

Jakker wrote:
If you truly think that this is about giving natives payback, then I am sure you have a list of all the regions that TNI has raided and will reach out to them about this. I would love to hear from natives who have been waiting three years for their revenge. Seems like it is mostly defenders who want revenge. I didn't realize people were still that upset about how much they did against FRA. Losing a war makes people hold grudges I guess. Also again, if you are too busy to write a proposal that has sufficient substance, I am not sure why you feel the need to push this now.

Fun fact, I wasn't around when the FRA was here. Wouldn't you also hold a grudge against those who you lost a war too? Seems a natural thing. I think the proposal has enough substance but I'll definitely work on fleshing it out .

You literally noted FRA in your OP so obviously that is on your mind and you just admitted that there are defenders out there that do hold a grudge still. Using the SC to push a grudge of defenders is pretty funny though.

Starfyre wrote:

Jakker wrote:
I am not really following your logic. Are you saying that Onder and company are not natives of TNI? Also what makes you think that nations were removed with no warning?

Onderkelkia usurped the region to be a subject of the LKE, effectively killing the region in the end. He brought in the military forces of LKE to password it instead of contacting the native delegate [or using his own WA to lock the region down, usurping the native community. As to native removal, see from this post after https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=29673597. I admit, it does need to be written better.

This line of argument is wholly disingenuous and inconsistent with your declared intent to "Liberate" TNI so it can be degraded by genuine outsiders.

I did "us[e] [my] own WA to lock the region down"- it was only because of my TNI nation's large stock of influence that it was possible to password.

As the native leader of The New Inquisition - appointed as an RO for that purpose by the founder in late 2017 - I requested and secured the assistance of TNI's closest and oldest ally to secure the region rapidly. By that point in March 2018, the region was already completely inactive. If I had not acted rapidly - indeed if I had been only a couple of days later in acting - then the region would almost certainly have been invaded and desecrated by its enemies.

As a citizen of the region since 2006 and an integral member of TNI's top leadership from 2008 to 2015, I am at least as much and indeed more of a native of the region than either of the couple of on-site nations, neither of which were ever part of TNI's off-site forum community and were also unfamiliar with the context, who posted questions on the regional message board. The delegate that was in place, before I briefly took the delegacy to impose the password, had no more legitimacy than having fallen into the position after their predecessor ceased to exist. Moreover, that nation returned to the delegacy immediately afterwards and did not alter the password despite having the ability to do so. Your claim that the "native community" was usurped is an insincere (albeit highly typical) effort to justify the defender community's desire for revenge in a way that is compatible with your ideological beliefs.

Starfyre wrote:

Tinhampton wrote:Opposed. I cannot see this as anything other than the first step of a brazen attempt to refound TNI under the flag of defenderdom - especially the ARGUING clause.

Starfyre was (as Kuriko) the former WA Delegate of 10000 Islands. The mission statement of the Ten thousand Islands Treaty Organisation, XKI's military, is clear that "when a region is unjustly invaded, not only will we hold the option of defending that region in whatever manner we see fit, but we also hold the option of attacking the attacking regions [sic] homeland itself."

And what's your point Tin? We attack raiders because they attack others, and because those they attack can't attack back themselves. They deserve justice.

Justice? In this game? Better found a region called “justice” if you want any of that here. Against, because libs are lame in general, and this one is in particular. TNI is literally a raider org with raider natives from before your time. Find a better target, is my advice. This is like liberating 10ki for being a defender army base.

British Whiskum wrote:

Starfyre wrote:Onderkelkia usurped the region to be a subject of the LKE, effectively killing the region in the end. He brought in the military forces of LKE to password it instead of contacting the native delegate [or using his own WA to lock the region down, usurping the native community. As to native removal, see from this post after https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=29673597. I admit, it does need to be written better.

This line of argument is wholly disingenuous and inconsistent with your declared intent to "Liberate" TNI so it can be degraded by genuine outsiders.

I did "us[e] [my] own WA to lock the region down"- it was only because of my TNI nation's large stock of influence that it was possible to password.

As the native leader of The New Inquisition - appointed as an RO for that purpose by the founder in late 2017 - I requested and secured the assistance of TNI's closest and oldest ally to secure the region rapidly. By that point in March 2018, the region was already completely inactive. If I had not acted rapidly - indeed if I had been only a couple of days later in acting - then the region would almost certainly have been invaded and desecrated by its enemies.

As a citizen of the region since 2006 and an integral member of TNI's top leadership from 2008 to 2015, I am at least as much and indeed more of a native of the region than either of the couple of on-site nations, neither of which were ever part of TNI's off-site forum community and were also unfamiliar with the context, who posted questions on the regional message board. The delegate that was in place, before I briefly took the delegacy to impose the password, had no more legitimacy than having fallen into the position after their predecessor ceased to exist. Moreover, that nation returned to the delegacy immediately afterwards and did not alter the password despite having the ability to do so. Your claim that the "native community" was usurped is an insincere (albeit highly typical) effort to justify the defender community's desire for revenge in a way that is compatible with your ideological beliefs.

Hey, it's Onder! Hello to the face of imperialism and the driving force behind the imperialist sphere on NS which coincidentally has mostly died out these days. You weren't the native leader of the region at the time Onder, and you brought outside forces in to secure your reign over the region and appoint yourself and NES as ROs. But that's all really semantics now at this point in the conversation.

You see, you and TNI, as well as LKE, have attacked countless regions throughout your tenures. TNI has also participated in multiple GCR coups as well, if I'm not mistaken, in TRR and TEP to name two. TNI deserves to reap what it sowed for all the years that it was active, because now you're vulnerable just like your targets.

The SCs stated mission is "To spread peace and goodwill, via force if necessary". This falls into that category pretty handily due to the fact that we're going to spread goodwill by striking back at a region that struck so many others for so long. And yes, I can write long winding posts that say pretty much nothing just like you .

Starfyre wrote:

British Whiskum wrote:This line of argument is wholly disingenuous and inconsistent with your declared intent to "Liberate" TNI so it can be degraded by genuine outsiders.

I did "us[e] [my] own WA to lock the region down"- it was only because of my TNI nation's large stock of influence that it was possible to password.

As the native leader of The New Inquisition - appointed as an RO for that purpose by the founder in late 2017 - I requested and secured the assistance of TNI's closest and oldest ally to secure the region rapidly. By that point in March 2018, the region was already completely inactive. If I had not acted rapidly - indeed if I had been only a couple of days later in acting - then the region would almost certainly have been invaded and desecrated by its enemies.

As a citizen of the region since 2006 and an integral member of TNI's top leadership from 2008 to 2015, I am at least as much and indeed more of a native of the region than either of the couple of on-site nations, neither of which were ever part of TNI's off-site forum community and were also unfamiliar with the context, who posted questions on the regional message board. The delegate that was in place, before I briefly took the delegacy to impose the password, had no more legitimacy than having fallen into the position after their predecessor ceased to exist. Moreover, that nation returned to the delegacy immediately afterwards and did not alter the password despite having the ability to do so. Your claim that the "native community" was usurped is an insincere (albeit highly typical) effort to justify the defender community's desire for revenge in a way that is compatible with your ideological beliefs.

Hey, it's Onder! Hello to the face of imperialism and the driving force behind the imperialist sphere on NS which coincidentally has mostly died out these days. You weren't the native leader of the region at the time Onder, and you brought outside forces in to secure your reign over the region and appoint yourself and NES as ROs. But that's all really semantics now at this point in the conversation.

On the contrary, my nation was already a Regional Officer, appointed by the Founder, from late 2017. I changed my RO title to "Guardian" subsequent to that, following the Founder's nation demise and at the same time as appointing NES and r3n - other very long-standing natives of TNI - as the other ROs.

I requested military assistance from TNI's oldest and closest ally to help me - a genuine native with a large stock of influence - to gain the delegacy so I could impose a password quickly, which I did immediately on obtaining the delegacy, before handing back to the previous delegate shortly afterwards. If I had not acted with the necessary speed, then I know with 100% certainty that the region would have been invaded by hostile forces a couple of days later.

That had nothing to do whatsoever with turning the region into an LKE colony and it is extremely dishonest of you, Kuriko, to pretend such.

It is "semantics" for you because it is a bad-faith argument peripheral to your underlying agenda of desecrating TNI rooted in pure malevolence.

As for your remarks about "the imperialist sphere" and how it has "mostly died out these days", like the end of TNI, that is very much a story from 2015. The LKE as a continued successful imperialist region, and Balder as a former member of ISRA, have both moved on from the UIAF and ISRA periods.