[Sub] Liberate The New Inquisition

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Believing that when TNI violated the sovereignty of other regions like previously said before they gave up any rights they had to protect their regional borders, borders which are now vulnerable after the regions founder ceased to exist more than two years ago;

You’re missing an apostrophe, should be “region’s founder”.

[Sedgistan]

You say Jet Black made this post "some time after the scripting violations in TBR/the LKE". You announced the actions of Halcones and Bob Moran on 27 April 2015. As noted above, I resigned as Executive Director of TNI Intelligence on 30 March 2015, but I can see the archive of Jet Black's account, which was the sole place where we communicated with him about the operation, as he avoided using any kind of instant messaging within TNI due to the operation.

I've checked the date of the post - it was 29th April 2015. For what it's worth, here's a screenshot of the full post:



Before anyone thinks otherwise, Wibble's "and Onder made a point in that thread somewhere" will be referring to a post in this thread where Onder would have raised concerns that the punishment handed out could inspire enemies of The LKE to recruit illegally on their behalf to get the region punished (I've briefly looked for the post he'd be referring to, but haven't found the specific one). i.e. don't read Wibble's post as saying Onder had suggested that this should be done.

[Jakker]

I will break this down once again for all of you viewers watching from home.

Kuriko has continuously tried to convince (quite poorly might I add) that this proposal is about the poor regions who were raided by TNI and this is to give them justice. That is completely not true and I will show she is simply trying to weaponize defender GP talking points to act like she does care. This is because she knows it would not be a good look if the proposal read what this is really about: defenders trying to get payback on a region that one upped them on multiple occasions. I will need the help from my friends at Sesame Street to help break this down.

The letter of the day is...


P for Petty, Pandering, and Phony to name a few.

---

PHONY and PANDERING
1) Kuriko will try make it seem like she has been upfront the whole time about her intentions to raid TNI because of defenders holding a grudge, but this is not true. And it is pretty obvious all of the phony lies that have been used throughout the thread. The original proposal was only 4-5 clauses and one of them was:

Noting that although it may look like TNI was passworded benignly by native forces, they were actually brutally annexed and subjugated by their allies within The Land of Kings and Emperors who removed long time native nations with no warning

She wanted to pander to the WA because as someone who has written several liberations, she knows the talking points that get people to vote for them. She wanted to make people feel like TNI was forcefully taken from the natives of the region. She even admitted to pandering by using her typical tired rhetoric and edited it out only after being called out about it.

If you want to raid TNI because it is TNI then just say that. Don't need to lie with added fluff about natives. You were the one that started the argument about "nativism." It also shows the weakness of your argument that you needed to add that fake fluff in the first place.

To be quite truthful, I don't know why I put it in there. I was having a hard time coming up with content and my normal liberation writing took over, which isn't that great.

Edit: I re-wrote that clause.

2) She has also continuously pandered by making this seem like this is "justice for those who were raided by TNI."

Natives deserve to have their payback at raiders who attack them, it just so happens that defender militaries are the ones that are capable of doing so for them.

TNI doesn't get to hide behind a password when they're vulnerable because they never gave that chance to the innocent communities they attacked. They also, like others have stated, have historically not cared about the sovereignty of a couple of the GCRs like TRR and TEP. Why should they get to hide in their time of vulnerability? They deserve to feel the sword of Justice (ironically we have a Sword of TITO ) for what they've done.

This is clearly Kuriko and defenders wanting to play out their white knight fantasy. They keep trying to make it sound like this is for all of the people who have been raided by TNI, but they are just using those people as pawns for their own petty reasons.

---

PETTY:
Kuriko opened this entire thread by stating:

We all know who TNI was, the acts they did and the imperialist ideas they espoused. The war they declared on the FRA and defenders in general, which lead to the FRAs downfall. It is time to free TNI and allow those wronged by the region to have their retribution.

She is clearly stating from the beginning that what TNI did to defenders, specifically FRA, was and is still on her mind when writing this. She even admitted that defenders still hold a grudge about it. Obviously so many of them are going to come into this thread to push this.

If you truly think that this is about giving natives payback, then I am sure you have a list of all the regions that TNI has raided and will reach out to them about this. I would love to hear from natives who have been waiting three years for their revenge. Seems like it is mostly defenders who want revenge. I didn't realize people were still that upset about how much they did against FRA. Losing a war makes people hold grudges I guess. Also again, if you are too busy to write a proposal that has sufficient substance, I am not sure why you feel the need to push this now.

Fun fact, I wasn't around when the FRA was here. Wouldn't you also hold a grudge against those who you lost a war too? Seems a natural thing. I think the proposal has enough substance but I'll definitely work on fleshing it out .

If I had not acted with the necessary speed, then I know with 100% certainty that the region would have been invaded by hostile forces a couple of days later.

This is correct. I'm still annoyed by that.

Not the best text (yet) but full support for the principle of the matter.

I left my nation there to accrue influence in order to place a password, which is why I never struck. Onjajo was there for 238 days and banned on August 28th of 2018 by Onder.

Defenders have admitted multiple times that there was a collective effort to raid the region. That is fine. That is how gameplay divisions typically play out. You try to beat your opponent on the battlefield. But for one, Kuriko again tried to use phony lies to make it out that this was against natives' will when clearly it was defender sleepers who were ejected. And Roavin even admitted to still being annoyed that Onder one upped them and passworded before they could raid it.

This is Kuriko and company using the SC to fight their battles because they are salty that they were unable to raid TNI on their own and are upset for what TNI did to FRA. That is a primary motivation and it is so obvious. I just find that hilariously sad.

So ... again, you're saying that the reasons we want this is for the reasons we're stating. So apparently it's sad that we're upfront about it and we should instead lie to the SC. Got it.

Roavin and Kuriko have tried to make it seem like they have been upfront. He even admits right here what their actual intention is. Yet, do you see any of this in the proposal? No. They didn't even admit to it until after being called out on it. Is that what it means to be upfront and not lie? No. Clearly, they need to read this book:



But now they realize that the cat is out the bag. They realize how obvious it is that is just about their own hurt pride from FRA and not being able to raid the region. Roavin flat out says what defenders are doing:

We're using the SC as a potential tool to further our interests. If we can convince the membership of the World Assembly, and in particular its Delegates, then it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. That's how this august body works.

So please don't listen to any other nonsense about justice for natives or reaping what they sow. That is just them trying to find any justification they can that is digestible for people to vote for this. Because they know that if this proposal read the truth that they simply want to do this because this is all about them and getting back at TNI for one upping them, most people would be like, "Are you serious? Win your own battles."

So ultimately, the question for the SC to decide is if they want to get involved in a petty gameplay conflict where one side is sad that they were one upped and now are hoping that people will let them salvage their pride. That is the whole thing here. And they have admitted to that throughout this thread. If the SC wants to reward that kind of behavior, you are basically rewarding failure by individuals who supposedly have enough knowledge and skill to fight their own battles. If defenders want to shamelessly whine about their loses and lie to the WA to get their way, so be it but again...

[Onderkelkia]

You say Jet Black made this post "some time after the scripting violations in TBR/the LKE". You announced the actions of Halcones and Bob Moran on 27 April 2015. As noted above, I resigned as Executive Director of TNI Intelligence on 30 March 2015, but I can see the archive of Jet Black's account, which was the sole place where we communicated with him about the operation, as he avoided using any kind of instant messaging within TNI due to the operation.

I've checked the date of the post - it was 29th April 2015. For what it's worth, here's a screenshot of the full post:



Before anyone thinks otherwise, Wibble's "and Onder made a point in that thread somewhere" will be referring to a post in this thread where Onder would have raised concerns that the punishment handed out could inspire enemies of The LKE to recruit illegally on their behalf to get the region punished (I've briefly looked for the post he'd be referring to, but haven't found the specific one). i.e. don't read Wibble's post as saying Onder had suggested that this should be done.

Between 27-29 April, I certainly made multiple posts in that GP forum thread pointing out that, given your announcement that Bob Moran was collaborating with Anur-Sanur/Frak and Anur-Sanur/Frak's strong antipathy to the LKE, his use of a non-rule-compliant script may have been intended to cause problems for the LKE - which continues to be my suspicion. It is possible that argument may have given Jet Black inspiration for making for the proposal shown.

There were no discussions at all in Jet Black's TNI intelligence account (sub-forum) between 18 April (when Jet Black made a report about Chanku and The Union seeking to join the FRA) and the 9 May report about the impending change of Arch-Chancellor that I described in my previous post. On an individual level, I had no contact whatsoever with Jet Black at any point in the period from the 27 April announcement of the Bob Moran situation until later after Harshhaven publicly revealed the operation in July, when I sent him a private message on TNI's (new) forum to thank him for his work over many years. As noted in my previous post, it would have wholly irrational for TNI to give such an inappropriate order and then voluntarily advertise that he was a TNI spy.

[Starfyre]

I will break this down once again for all of you viewers watching from home.

Kuriko has continuously tried to convince (quite poorly might I add) that this proposal is about the poor regions who were raided by TNI and this is to give them justice. That is completely not true and I will show she is simply trying to weaponize defender GP talking points to act like she does care. This is because she knows it would not be a good look if the proposal read what this is really about: defenders trying to get payback on a region that one upped them on multiple occasions. I will need the help from my friends at Sesame Street to help break this down.

The letter of the day is...
(Image)

P for Petty, Pandering, and Phony to name a few.

---

PHONY and PANDERING
1) Kuriko will try make it seem like she has been upfront the whole time about her intentions to raid TNI because of defenders holding a grudge, but this is not true. And it is pretty obvious all of the phony lies that have been used throughout the thread. The original proposal was only 4-5 clauses and one of them was:

Noting that although it may look like TNI was passworded benignly by native forces, they were actually brutally annexed and subjugated by their allies within The Land of Kings and Emperors who removed long time native nations with no warning

She wanted to pander to the WA because as someone who has written several liberations, she knows the talking points that get people to vote for them. She wanted to make people feel like TNI was forcefully taken from the natives of the region. She even admitted to pandering by using her typical tired rhetoric and edited it out only after being called out about it.

To be quite truthful, I don't know why I put it in there. I was having a hard time coming up with content and my normal liberation writing took over, which isn't that great.

Edit: I re-wrote that clause.

2) She has also continuously pandered by making this seem like this is "justice for those who were raided by TNI."

Natives deserve to have their payback at raiders who attack them, it just so happens that defender militaries are the ones that are capable of doing so for them.

TNI doesn't get to hide behind a password when they're vulnerable because they never gave that chance to the innocent communities they attacked. They also, like others have stated, have historically not cared about the sovereignty of a couple of the GCRs like TRR and TEP. Why should they get to hide in their time of vulnerability? They deserve to feel the sword of Justice (ironically we have a Sword of TITO ) for what they've done.

This is clearly Kuriko and defenders wanting to play out their white knight fantasy. They keep trying to make it sound like this is for all of the people who have been raided by TNI, but they are just using those people as pawns for their own petty reasons.

---

PETTY:
Kuriko opened this entire thread by stating:

We all know who TNI was, the acts they did and the imperialist ideas they espoused. The war they declared on the FRA and defenders in general, which lead to the FRAs downfall. It is time to free TNI and allow those wronged by the region to have their retribution.

She is clearly stating from the beginning that what TNI did to defenders, specifically FRA, was and is still on her mind when writing this. She even admitted that defenders still hold a grudge about it. Obviously so many of them are going to come into this thread to push this.

Fun fact, I wasn't around when the FRA was here. Wouldn't you also hold a grudge against those who you lost a war too? Seems a natural thing. I think the proposal has enough substance but I'll definitely work on fleshing it out .

This is correct. I'm still annoyed by that.

Not the best text (yet) but full support for the principle of the matter.

I left my nation there to accrue influence in order to place a password, which is why I never struck. Onjajo was there for 238 days and banned on August 28th of 2018 by Onder.

Defenders have admitted multiple times that there was a collective effort to raid the region. That is fine. That is how gameplay divisions typically play out. You try to beat your opponent on the battlefield. But for one, Kuriko again tried to use phony lies to make it out that this was against natives' will when clearly it was defender sleepers who were ejected. And Roavin even admitted to still being annoyed that Onder one upped them and passworded before they could raid it.

So ... again, you're saying that the reasons we want this is for the reasons we're stating. So apparently it's sad that we're upfront about it and we should instead lie to the SC. Got it.

Roavin and Kuriko have tried to make it seem like they have been upfront. He even admits right here what their actual intention is. Yet, do you see any of this in the proposal? No. They didn't even admit to it until after being called out on it. Is that what it means to be upfront and not lie? No. Clearly, they need to read this book:



But now they realize that the cat is out the bag. They realize how obvious it is that is just about their own hurt pride from FRA and not being able to raid the region. Roavin flat out says what defenders are doing:

We're using the SC as a potential tool to further our interests. If we can convince the membership of the World Assembly, and in particular its Delegates, then it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. That's how this august body works.

So please don't listen to any other nonsense about justice for natives or reaping what they sow. That is just them trying to find any justification they can that is digestible for people to vote for this. Because they know that if this proposal read the truth that they simply want to do this because this is all about them and getting back at TNI for one upping them, most people would be like, "Are you serious? Win your own battles."

So ultimately, the question for the SC to decide is if they want to get involved in a petty gameplay conflict where one side is sad that they were one upped and now are hoping that people will let them salvage their pride. That is the whole thing here. And they have admitted to that throughout this thread. If the SC wants to reward that kind of behavior, you are basically rewarding failure by individuals who supposedly have enough knowledge and skill to fight their own battles. If defenders want to shamelessly whine about their loses and lie to the WA to get their way, so be it but again...

What's embarrassing is you posting like that Jakker . The Council of Hawks must be writhing right now with your rhetoric.

[Numero Capitan]

Good to see raiders/moderators have still got their backs though

You know Jakker's posting here as a player, and almost no-one outside the FRA is likely to be aware of the existence of that post of Wibblefeet's, so even the "raiders [...] have still got their backs" is unfair.

Fair, or it would have been except for the fact that he has now doubled down on his defense of TNI even since you have posted the evidence. Honestly, as I'd known you had shared those screenshots on Discord last year I had assumed that would have been something noted more widely by moderation but I'd have no way of knowing.

Ignoring that information for IC purposes clearly isn't moderator misconduct that breaches any rules worthy of reporting - but it is a monumental oversight for anyone who wishes to defend the region that ran that operation and profited from it. It was not something that resulted in any rulebreaking worthy of moderation at the time but very much something that is worthy of an in-game response and valid justification for an offensive liberation.

EDIT: and @ Onder, not very nice when someone shows up wanting to destroy your region is it? Them apples eh..

[Sedgistan]

Fair, or it would have been except for the fact that he has now doubled down on his defense of TNI even since you have posted the evidence. Honestly, as I'd known you had shared those screenshots on Discord last year I had assumed that would have been something noted more widely by moderation but I'd have no way of knowing.

I didn't make anyone else in the team aware of it. It was a 5 year old post, offsite, not necessarily entirely serious, never followed through, and Wibblefeet barely plays NS any more. It didn't seem worth it.

Ignoring that information for IC purposes clearly isn't moderator misconduct that breaches any rules worthy of reporting - but it is a monumental oversight for anyone who wishes to defend the region that ran that operation and profited from it. It was not something that resulted in any rulebreaking worthy of moderation at the time but very much something that is worthy of an in-game response and valid justification for an offensive liberation.

Onder is someone who while wholly despicable IC, is not someone I would associate with misconduct OOC. I think it unlikely he would have encouraged or endorsed that post, and I'm inclined to believe him when he says that TNI was unlikely to know about it. The way TNI directed Wibblefeet end the spying operation - including resigning admin status and handing over AWP's founder - suggests a good level of OOC integrity.

While a region should take responsibility for its agent's actions, even when they're not acting on orders, I don't think it's fair to say the incident paints TNI as a whole in a bad enough light to mean it is untenable that people to continue to provide IC support for it - though it is certainly a mark against its reputation, and one that (rules allowing) might be something to mention in the proposal, at Starfyre's discretion.

Having said that, I would still like to see the Liberation pass for all the obvious IC historical reasons.

[Onderkelkia]

You know Jakker's posting here as a player, and almost no-one outside the FRA is likely to be aware of the existence of that post of Wibblefeet's, so even the "raiders [...] have still got their backs" is unfair.

Fair, or it would have been except for the fact that he has now doubled down on his defense of TNI even since you have posted the evidence. Honestly, as I'd known you had shared those screenshots on Discord last year I had assumed that would have been something noted more widely by moderation but I'd have no way of knowing.

Ignoring that information for IC purposes clearly isn't moderator misconduct that breaches any rules worthy of reporting - but it is a monumental oversight for anyone who wishes to defend the region that ran that operation and profited from it. It was not something that resulted in any rulebreaking worthy of moderation at the time but very much something that is worthy of an in-game response and valid justification for an offensive liberation.

EDIT: and @ Onder, not very nice when someone shows up wanting to destroy your region is it? Them apples eh..

If indeed Jet Black's unsanctioned post speculating about an inappropriate idea on the FRA forum "is worthy of an in-game response and valid justification for an offensive liberation", then surely under your reasoning this would in fact be a bigger issue for the FRA and all its members who saw that post on your forums? On 29 April, the date shown for that post in Sedge's print screen, Wibblefeet was the FRA Arch-Chancellor and no one in the FRA knew he was a TNI spy. I see no FRA press release saying that the Regional Assembly held a vote on expelling/censuring Wibblefeet or any other sign of external action.

The first that I, and as far as I know anyone in TNI other than Jet Black, is learning about that apparent one-off comment is today. I am very disappointed in it and it makes me angry. If Jet Black came me when I was running TNI intelligence with such an idea, I would have taken action. Not true for the FRA.

I don't know where he posted that remark in the FRA, but clearly your forum administrators and at least some other FRA officials must have had access. Did those members motion to have him removed as Arch-Chancellor? Did they issue a press release denouncing him? Did they move to have AWP expelled from the FRA in consequence? After all, if your position is that it justifies an offensive Liberation of TNI now, surely it would have justified an offensive Liberation of AWP then? Jet Black's persona Wibblefeet at the time was far more senior in the FRA and in AWP than in TNI, and yet the lack of any external action shows it was not punished sufficiently if at by any at the FRA who saw the post - if your position is that the incident is so outrageous as to warrant turning TNI into a pariah equivalent to the other kinds of regions who have traditionally been subject to offensive Liberations in the Security Council's history.

Wibblefeet even has a nation in AWP today. You said above that Sedge "shared those screenshots on Discord last year". Tell me, if this is so serious that it warrants destroying TNI as a region collectively, why have you and AWP continued to harbour the very individual responsible for perpetrating it?

You clearly have not the slightest genuine concern about the matter and are merely maliciously employing it as an argument against TNI.

[Jakker]

What's embarrassing is you posting like that Jakker . The Council of Hawks must be writhing right now with your rhetoric.

Sesame Street and Letterkenny are gems to society. Now you add not having good taste in TV shows to everything else I already noted.

[Starfyre]

What's embarrassing is you posting like that Jakker . The Council of Hawks must be writhing right now with your rhetoric.

Sesame Street and Letterkenny are gems to society. Now you add not having good taste in TV shows to everything else I already noted.

Sorry, I prefer anime like RWBY, Attack on Titan, Fairy Tale, and Seven Deadly Sins

[Evil Wolf]

It was not something that resulted in any rulebreaking worthy of moderation at the time but very much something that is worthy of an in-game response and valid justification for an offensive liberation.

Defenders when the rest of Nationstates wants to use a Liberation offensively: "Liberations are never to be used that way by anyone for any reason! It's wrong and Immoral!"

Defenders when they want to slam an old raider group: "Our rules apply to thee, not to me, peasant."

This is why no one likes Defender Moralism.

[Starfyre]

But seriously, back to TNI. From what I gather, they were pretty strong for 10 or so years and pretty much the center of imperialist raiding on NS. They always preyed on vulnerable communities, communities like the ones I listed that aren't GCRs (although those were innocent as well), and now that the time has come for their own vulnerability they should get a free pass?

That's a hard no. You may have beat us to the punch back in 2018 by locking it Onder, but you know what they say? It isn't over until it's over, and this is far from over. It's time for the raiding and imperialist sphere to get a taste of their own medicine, coming in the sweet taste of defender troops entering TNI after its liberated by the SC in order to exact retribution for all those regions you targeted.

Jakker, as well as others, keep saying that this is only in revenge for what TNI did to the FRA. But do you want to know something? When I played in 2012/2013 I wasn't active enough to know that the FRA, or TNI, existed. A couple of those others here weren't either, Roavin starting NS in 2015/16 for example. I myself didn't start defending until late 2016/early 2017 when Solidarity was formed.

This revenge does not belong to defenders. This proposal, if passed by the World Assembly, would belong to each of us. The world effectively would punish TNI and regions like it for its blatant and unapologetic violations of the WA's mission statement while using its infrastructure as a means of causing immeasurable pain to immeasurable number of nations and their citizens.

[Evil Wolf]

This proposal is to finally punish TNI for all those violations of sovereignty they did, as well as for all other raiders because it's the only target we have right now. In order for the raiding sphere to get a taste of their own medicine, we are going to stick to our mission statement and target the home regions of raiders and imperialists to show that when the time comes and you're vulnerable we will strike with any means necessary.

We should all save this quote next time someone wants to do an offensive Liberation Proposal against fascist region and the Moralist Defenders come out in droves to proclaim it a misuse of Liberations and immoral.

I find the two-faced hypocrisy to be hilarious.

[Starfyre]

This proposal is to finally punish TNI for all those violations of sovereignty they did, as well as for all other raiders because it's the only target we have right now. In order for the raiding sphere to get a taste of their own medicine, we are going to stick to our mission statement and target the home regions of raiders and imperialists to show that when the time comes and you're vulnerable we will strike with any means necessary.

We should all save this quote next time someone wants to do an offensive Liberation Proposal against fascist region and the Moralist Defenders come out in droves to proclaim it a misuse of Liberations and immoral.

I find the two-faced hypocrisy to be hilarious.

Evil Wolf when he's been out of the loop since Liberate Kaiserreich ^^

[Evil Wolf]

Evil Wolf when he's been out of the loop since Liberate Kaiserreich ^^

Not the case anymore? Looks like I got a lot of Liberation Proposals to write then.

[Maenelan]

It's time for the raiding and imperialist sphere to get a taste of their own medicine, coming in the sweet taste of defender troops entering TNI after its liberated by the SC in order to exact retribution for all those regions you targeted.

The prevailing taste so far seems to be salt, if anything. And salt that is out of date by half a decade, at that.

As you yourself stated, you’re continuing a fight for and being outraged on behalf of organisations long dead, which you yourself never served in. This is defenders pursuing a vendetta between their faction and a region that has long since closed it’s doors, and your half-hearted attempts to deny it seem to change with the moment. First, the poor natives were opressed by the big bad LKE, and now the natives that don’t want their region taken from them at all are now awful and evil for deeds and events that occurred quite literally a decade ago. While the inconsistency is entertaining, it also betrays your true intentions: to fight out an ancient grudge with an enemy that has retired years ago.

[Starfyre]

Evil Wolf when he's been out of the loop since Liberate Kaiserreich ^^

Not the case anymore? Looks like I got a lot of Liberation Proposals to write then.

Only certain types and targets skeet through, so watch your step .

It's time for the raiding and imperialist sphere to get a taste of their own medicine, coming in the sweet taste of defender troops entering TNI after its liberated by the SC in order to exact retribution for all those regions you targeted.

The prevailing taste so far seems to be salt, if anything. And salt that is out of date by half a decade, at that.

As you yourself stated, you’re continuing a fight for and being outraged on behalf of organisations long dead, which you yourself never served in. This is defenders pursuing a vendetta between their faction and a region that has long since closed it’s doors, and your half-hearted attempts to deny it seem to change with the moment. First, the poor natives were opressed by the big bad LKE, and now the natives that don’t want their region taken from them at all are now awful and evil for deeds and events that occurred quite literally a decade ago. While the inconsistency is entertaining, it also betrays your true intentions: to fight out an ancient grudge with an enemy that has retired years ago.

Looks at The Land of Kings and Emperors, Europeia, and Balder. I think they're still quite lively even though they closed the door on TNI...

[Maenelan]

Looks at The Land of Kings and Emperors, Europeia, and Balder. I think they're still quite lively even though they closed the door on TNI...

As I said, the inconsistency is amusing, but again...

The same players active over three regions in order to give the appearance of a healthy imperialist sphere when it's population is dwindling and activity declining.

...you might wish to pick a narrative and stick to it, so you can at least make a flimsy claim of justice instead of conflicting stories that make it glaringly obvious defenders are pursuing their grudges, using noble excuses like “justice” to attempt to make it seem legitimate.

[Starfyre]

Looks at The Land of Kings and Emperors, Europeia, and Balder. I think they're still quite lively even though they closed the door on TNI...

As I said, the inconsistency is amusing, but again...

The same players active over three regions in order to give the appearance of a healthy imperialist sphere when it's population is dwindling and activity declining.

...you might wish to pick a narrative and stick to it, so you can at least make a flimsy claim of justice instead of conflicting stories that make it glaringly obvious defenders are pursuing their grudges, using noble excuses like “justice” to attempt to make it seem legitimate.

The players can be lively without being lively, meaning they're still around on NS and interacting intermittently without creating an active community. Keep up please .

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

....This revenge does not belong to defenders. This proposal, if passed by the World Assembly, would belong to each of us. The world effectively would punish TNI and regions like it for its blatant and unapologetic violations of the WA's mission statement while using its infrastructure as a means of causing immeasurable pain to immeasurable number of nations and their citizens.

As a neutral in the R/D game I’m going to call bullshit. Just reads as utter hypocrisy.

[Jakker]

You may have beat us to the punch back in 2018 by locking it Onder, but you know what they say? It isn't over until it's over, and this is far from over. It's time for the raiding and imperialist sphere to get a taste of their own medicine, coming in the sweet taste of defender troops entering TNI after its liberated by the SC in order to exact retribution for all those regions you targeted.

Jakker, as well as others, keep saying that this is only in revenge for what TNI did to the FRA. But do you want to know something? When I played in 2012/2013 I wasn't active enough to know that the FRA, or TNI, existed. A couple of those others here weren't either, Roavin starting NS in 2015/16 for example. I myself didn't start defending until late 2016/early 2017 when Solidarity was formed.

Just because you and Roavin are serving as the face of the petty grudges that old defenders have does not mean you don't have them as well. And several old defenders like Numero and Sedge have shown in this thread that they very much still hold those grudges. Literally so many of your posts are reaffirming again and again and again and again how true all of that is. You all are choking over your own salt trying to make such poor arguments in the thread. TNI beat FRA and TNI beat you to the password. It is clearly far from over for defenders and if you all want to keep whining about those loses, that is whatever. And if you want to keep watching TNI and hoping everyday that the nations CTE so you can refound it, that is whatever. But coming to the WA to reward your whining because you don't want to let it go and salvage whatever pride I thought you all had, that is next level.

P.S. You keep talking about a stated mission that the SC has. There is no official mission statement that the SC has as far as I know. But clearly you want the SC's mission statement to be: "When you lose in gameplay and are salty, come on down to the SC!" Just a big oof.

[Comfed]

Do not use the SC for petty grudges. Write it in permanent marker on your foreheads and recite it to yourself until you are whispering it in your sleep.

[Starfyre]

P.S. You keep talking about a stated mission that the SC has. There is no official mission statement that the SC has as far as I know. But clearly you want the SC's mission statement to be: "When you lose in gameplay and are salty, come on down to the SC!" Just a big oof.

... "Spreading interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary". I thought you were an SC focused moderator?

[Reploid Productions]

P.S. You keep talking about a stated mission that the SC has. There is no official mission statement that the SC has as far as I know. But clearly you want the SC's mission statement to be: "When you lose in gameplay and are salty, come on down to the SC!" Just a big oof.

... "Spreading interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary". I thought you were an SC focused moderator?

Before we need to start looming about taking bad faith potshots at moderation as part of this thing...

"Spreading interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary" is intentionally left vague. If the SC community determines that "peace and goodwill via force" = "opening up raider regions to invasion", cool beans. If the SC community determines that "peace and goodwill via force" = "opening up this fascist/communist/furry/conspiracy/whatever region we dislike to invasion", cool beans. If the SC community determines that "peace and goodwill via force" = "raiders trying to open up new targets to invasion", that is also cool beans.

In other words, the SC has no clearly defined mission statement. "Spreading interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary" means whatever the SC community decides it means and can convince a majority of WA voters to support.

[FiHami]

To state my opinions in this forum regarding this proposal and offensive liberations, I cannot in good conscience support this. I understand that TNI was an invading group and that in the eyes of many defenders, they gave up their rights to regional sovereignty. However, I've made up my mind that the whole "you lose your rights to regional sovereignty when you invade" is not what we should be about.

Aren't we supposed to be compassionate to others in their time of need? Aren't we supposed to do what's right and protect other regions throughout nationstates no matter their alignment (outside of fascists?) TNI isn't fascist or problematic in any way as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong. In my eyes they should still be worthy of being defended, and worthy of being safe from offensive WA resolutions meant to destabilize and harm the region.

We as defenders are all about regional sovereignty, but why are more than a few so willing to throw all that away because a region happened to align itself with the raiding side? I will echo what was said earlier about this whole thing being "hypocritical" because it honestly is. Yes, raiders are our enemies on the field, we fight against them every update and work to undo everything they do. However, are we really so low enough to stoop to kicking our opponents when they're dying purely because they were our enemies? Shouldn't we instead defend them as they fade into oblivion in case anyone else were to try to kick them over? That would be the merciful thing to do.

Offensive liberations should only be reserved for fascist and otherwise very problematic regions, invite every R/Der and neutral member to invade them mercilessly until the region in question is a sad husk of what it once was. Not for raider regions.

But uh, yeah. I'm opposed to this.