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Alentejozinho and Algarvezinho wrote:- snip -

You're bordering on spam here, knock it off.

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Maybe call the SC Secretariat SecSec.

Not to be of topic, but IA, there is way to much Secs in your post for it to be PG-13 appropriate.


Back to the topic though, this has been fun to watch. I agree with the sentiments on both sides of this. I do agree with Alentejo and Algarve that the SC Community, isn't really open to listening to criticism, satirical or otherwise from communities outside of itself despite their soul job being to offer criticism or praise to every other community in the game. So I understand your frustration Alentejo.

But you've also lobbed some pretty ad hominem attacks in other threads, which I too have regrettably done so in the past, and you could have genuinely turned this in a valid and legal satire proposal and actually tried to propose a point but squandered that.

I do think it's poignant though and worth acknowledging that people openly admitted you have influenced their stance on Portugal being commendable or not, it was nice however to have some acknowledgement that "merit" isn't all that matters when it comes to voting for or against resolution as is so often suggested.

Nova Vandalia wrote: Back to the topic though, this has been fun to watch. I agree with the sentiments on both sides of this. I do agree with Alentejo and Algarve that the SC Community, isn't really open to listening to criticism, satirical or otherwise from communities outside of itself despite their soul job being to offer criticism or praise to every other community in the game. So I understand your frustration Alentejo.

If you actually had been paying attention to the threads, you'd notice the criticism levied at this and the Commend Portugal were the ignorance of basic SC conventions like self-commendations being frowned upon and writing a proposal according to the rules and to a lesser extent submitting without drafting. It's not a satire on the SC being conformist, it's just whining when told off and given good advice.

Honeydewistania wrote:If you actually had been paying attention to the threads, you'd notice the criticism levied at this and the Commend Portugal were the ignorance of basic SC conventions like self-commendations being frowned upon and writing a proposal according to the rules and to a lesser extent submitting without drafting.

The ones in that thread yes, but several people have spoken out here if you would have read about how this has hurt the chance in many of their eyes of Commending Portugal being passed in any forum at least two people made it fairly obvious, but I understand you might have missed those statements. ^-^

Nova Vandalia wrote:

Honeydewistania wrote:If you actually had been paying attention to the threads, you'd notice the criticism levied at this and the Commend Portugal were the ignorance of basic SC conventions like self-commendations being frowned upon and writing a proposal according to the rules and to a lesser extent submitting without drafting.

The ones in that thread yes, but several people have spoken out here if you would have read about how this has hurt the chance in many of their eyes of Commending Portugal being passed in any forum at least two people made it fairly obvious, but I understand you might have missed those statements. ^-^

This is a massive grammatical mess, so I have no idea what you're saying.

Honeydewistania wrote:

Nova Vandalia wrote:
The ones in that thread yes, but several people have spoken out here if you would have read about how this has hurt the chance in many of their eyes of Commending Portugal being passed in any forum at least two people made it fairly obvious, but I understand you might have missed those statements. ^-^

This is a massive grammatical mess, so I have no idea what you're saying.

To put is plainly, again I admit I'm not a great writer, some of the comments have gone beyond the focus of criticizing this a "self C&C"

Bormiar wrote:If you want any chance at ever getting anything you want in the SC, you need to stop mocking it. If you hadn't figured it out, "Commend Portugal" is not going to pass. Don't make things worse for yourself.

Here is a statement from Bormiar saying if you criticize or poke fun at the SC it makes it harder for any proposal to pass, and that openly doing so can make things worse for a proposal. Emphasis mine.

Here you attack the author's competency, backhandedly, simply because he tried to defend himself in the Commend Portugal thread, and criticized relatively politely compared to many others including myself

Honeydewistania wrote: However if you can’t find a single competent author to make this case and resort to doing the task yourself, that tells me you probably aren’t very commendable.

All while, taking too seriously a joke a proposal here, while you actually have one in the forums self described as a "Shitpost"

and here

Sodoran Alesia wrote:Lol and this is how you guarantee your region will never get commended

the mention of never at least to me suggest that this joke proposal will in fact have a lasting impact on any future Commend Portugal proposals.

You, Honeydew ,consistently go on the defensive when any criticism is lobbed even remotely in your direct as you just proved, by once again coming after me. I was simply sharing an opinion suggesting that this could have been a fun satirical post, but was ruined by the OP's attitude while also suggesting that the SC should be more open to criticism or if it suits you needs to revist how it approaches those who criticize it, and needs to admit that politics, personal or otherwise, plays a role in the SC commends and condemns and it's not just merit based alone, It might actually help people trying to break in temper their language and proposal drafts.

So I really don't enjoy you're fairly constant remarks outwards me especially considering that I've tried an effort to be civil and play nicely, admitting to past mistakes. So if you want to talk this out via TG bury the hatchet I'm more than willing to, TG me, so that actual conversations (and not one sided snide attacks) can happen in this forum and so we can't get back on topic.

Speaking of being back on topic, obviously this isn't going to pass, and it's very unlikely Commend Portugal is either, if Porutgal truly wants a commendation to happen I am more than happy to point Alentejo And Algarve and other members towards people I feel treat people attempting to participate in the SC with kindness, and not out right disdain and maybe willing to themselves author it, given some time to remove the commend away from this particular instance.

Edit: I do want to note that maybe the statements listed weren't meant to seem so critical or overreaching and that is valid, but to mean and I'm sure to others it did not come off that way, sometimes thing happen to do that when typed out without emotional context clues to the tone of the statement.

Nova Vandalia wrote:

Honeydewistania wrote:This is a massive grammatical mess, so I have no idea what you're saying.

To put is plainly, again I admit I'm not a great writer, some of the comments have gone beyond the focus of criticizing this a "self C&C"

Bormiar wrote:If you want any chance at ever getting anything you want in the SC, you need to stop mocking it. If you hadn't figured it out, "Commend Portugal" is not going to pass. Don't make things worse for yourself.

Here is a statement from Bormiar saying if you criticize or poke fun at the SC it makes it harder for any proposal to pass, and that openly doing so can make things worse for a proposal. Emphasis mine.

Bormiar is more likely referring to the person's constant childish behaviour and insults, though I'm not him and can't be sure.

Here you attack the author's competency, backhandedly, simply because he tried to defend himself in the Commend Portugal thread, and criticized relatively politely compared to many others including myself

Honeydewistania wrote: However if you can’t find a single competent author to make this case and resort to doing the task yourself, that tells me you probably aren’t very commendable.

All while, taking too seriously a joke a proposal here, while you actually have one in the forums self described as a "Shitpost"

Difference being I properly described and made it clear it was a joke, while the author of Commend Portugal did not (and in fact took a very serious stance towards it).

and here

Sodoran Alesia wrote:Lol and this is how you guarantee your region will never get commended

the mention of never at least to me suggest that this joke proposal will in fact have a lasting impact on any future Commend Portugal proposals.

I also cannot speak for them, but they were maybe, idk, likely being hyperbolic. Also the resortion to personal attacks by members of Portugal during this episode will taint future attempts, there is no doubt about that.

You, Honeydew ,consistently go on the defensive when any criticism is lobbed even remotely in your direct as you just proved, by once again coming after me. I was simply sharing an opinion suggesting that this could have been a fun satirical post, but was ruined by the OP's attitude while also suggesting that the SC should be more open to criticism or if it suits you needs to revist how it approaches those who criticize it, and needs to admit that politics, personal or otherwise, plays a role in the SC commends and condemns and it's not just merit based alone, It might actually help people trying to break in temper their language and proposal drafts.

So I really don't enjoy you're fairly constant remarks outwards me especially considering that I've tried an effort to be civil and play nicely, admitting to past mistakes. So if you want to talk this out via TG bury the hatchet I'm more than willing to, TG me, so that actual conversations (and not one sided snide attacks) can happen in this forum and so we can't get back on topic.

I don't have anything against you, I have things against poor SC and GP takes. Which you make a lot of. Therefore, I am unable to resist arguing against them.

And you may be right about their meaning, but it certainty doesn't come off that way to everyone. They didn't to me. I feel like this is one of the reasons why people are so hostile towards SC at the drop of a hat. I feel like as a group that is so focused on language and context, the SC authors often leave that consideration out of their replies, not all of course (I think Refuge is a good example of carefully wording their statements towards new folks. They almost always comes off as constructive and not destructive), but plenty. Reading those stament how I did gives me some empathy towards Alentejo's reaction. Now it's not an excuse nor a valid reason, but it does offer some semblance of understanding towards his motivations.

Maybe instead of attacking everyone who gets defensive when we attempt to offer criticism we, as a group, need to re-evaluate how we offer or word that criticism, myself included?

Nova Vandalia wrote:And you may be right about their meaning, but it certainty doesn't come off that way to everyone. They didn't to me. I feel like this is one of the reasons why people are so hostile towards SC at the drop of a hat. I feel like as a group that is so focused on language and context, the SC authors often leave that consideration out of their replies, not all of course (I think Refuge is a good example of carefully wording their statements towards new folks. They almost always comes off as constructive and not destructive), but plenty. Reading those stament how I did gives me some empathy towards Alentejo's reaction. Now it's not an excuse nor a valid reason, but it does offer some semblance of understanding towards his motivations.

Maybe instead of attacking everyone who gets defensive when we attempt to offer criticism we, as a group, need to re-evaluate how we offer or word that criticism, myself included?

Maybe instead people could accept constructive criticism to their drafts rather than accuse the SC of being hostile.

As lovely a sentiment it is to discuss making the SC more welcoming to newer players, it is not the topic of this thread. If you'd like to continue down this line, I suggest making a new thread to see what can be done (if anything needs to be done). Thank you.

Crazy girl wrote:As lovely a sentiment it is to discuss making the SC more welcoming to newer players, it is not the topic of this thread. If you'd like to continue down this line, I suggest making a new thread to see what can be done (if anything needs to be done). Thank you.

Sorry CG.

To the author: if you defy SC norms like not c/c-ing yourself, or not rushing proposals to submission you should not be surprised when people tell you off.

Crazy girl wrote:As lovely a sentiment it is to discuss making the SC more welcoming to newer players, it is not the topic of this thread. If you'd like to continue down this line, I suggest making a new thread to see what can be done (if anything needs to be done). Thank you.

I felt like it did speak to the topic considering this is a satirical proposal, so my apologize as I now realize I was in fact very off topic Crazy Girl.

Either way as mentioned I feel like this was intended as satire, one that could have been improved up and approached in a more diplomatic and honest way. I do think that Commend Portugal may still have a chance, this thread aside, if you are willing to find someone you feel is approachable to author it and help build it up a little.

All this is going to do is waste people’s time and hold up a far better proposal.

Just to clear something, I am not the same player as Alentejo and Algarve, the delegate of Portugal. We are both registered with the WA.

The World Assembly,

SHOCKED, SHOCKED, that Alentejo and Algarve foreign ministry sometimes uses a little humour in its proposals.

Did they? Please point this out to us, we’d really like to see it. By the way that’s a nasty stutter you’re developing.

AFFIRMING that the WA is a serious place where serious people discuss serious issues and where all humour must be verboten!

Not true, I’ve seen lots of funny proposals. Unfortunately yours is not one of them.

ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED that the nation of Alentejo and Algarve tried to self-commend its own region.

The foul fiend! Not so much for the self-commend, but the crap job they did of it

DECLARING that diversity and joy are to be avoided in these halls of professional government at all costs.

Again untrue, we C&C all types of nations and regions for all sorts of good reasons. Good being the operative word.

HEREBY decides to condemn this nation of scoundrels, this hive of scum and villainy, called Alentejo and Algarve!

Shame! Shame!

Well, no and that stutter’s back I see.

Alentejozinho and Algarvezinho wrote:Just to clear something, I am not the same player as Alentejo and Algarve, the delegate of Portugal. We are both registered with the WA.

That hasn't stopped a lot of people in the past.

Wayneactia wrote:

Alentejozinho and Algarvezinho wrote:Just to clear something, I am not the same player as Alentejo and Algarve, the delegate of Portugal. We are both registered with the WA.

That hasn't stopped a lot of people in the past.

Eh, I'd think the mods would have got him by now

Alentejozinho and Algarvezinho wrote:Just to clear something, I am not the same player as Alentejo and Algarve, the delegate of Portugal. We are both registered with the WA.

The -zinho at the end of both names makes it suspicious. Especially with your attempts to self-commend the region and with this weirdly satirical self-condemn.

Looks like someone wants to get this to vote:

The *slurps coffee* of Tinhampton → tag: delegates, -nation: a_leaf_on_the_wind, -nation: tinhampton, -nation: alentejo_and_algarve, -nation: molopovia, -nation: the_new_north_republic, -nation: islands_of_ventro, -nation: kids_country, -nation: lumio_magika, -nation: kustonia, -nation: clytrat, 1 more
11 minutes ago
Greetings, Delegate. I am Tinhampton, a three-time Security Council author, and I write to request your approval of Alentejozinho and Algarvezinho's proposal to Condemn Alentejo and Algarve for attempting to self-Commend a region they hold the WA Delegacy of. The proposal in question needs just ten more approvals in the next ten hours to reach the voting floor - and yours could be one of them!

Even if it does somehow reach quorum, it’s going to get annihilated when put to a vote.

Sedgistan wrote:Looks like someone wants to get this to vote:

We once again suffer a surplus of poor decisions.

Thanks for all the support and nice words, my friends! We reached quorum ;P