[DEFEATED] Commend Llorens

[Free Algerstonia]

Bro, look at their RMB. Both regions are full of tankies. It's all publicly available if you search up things like "China", "Russia", "Ukraine", or "Genocide" and you'll find all sorts of whitewashing.

What that has to do with Llo, who retired from active regional work about two years ago and whose opinions in no way resemble “talkie” is beyond me, even if that argument were true.
Also not sure how opinions on RL issues are relevant to commendations that relate to gameside contributions.

Regardless, can definitely back up those who say Llorens thoroughly deserves the commendation. If this one fails, I hope a future resolution will be written which gives him the recognition he deserves for his many years of work.

Was never saying Llo was a tankie, just responding to a request for evidence.

[Tinhampton]

"Commend Llorens" was defeated 8,814 votes to 7,003. (44.28% support)

For: 7,003: Giovanniland (609), Kethania (600), East Durthang (548), Markanite (401), Socialist Platypus (222), Super Awesome Fun Times (209), Luna State (205), Tevaris (106), Biggonian Megaist Empire (104), Lesser Velutaria (101), Bearded Dragones (91), Swaklaton (78), Student Loan Debt (63), New United Common-lands (63), The Salaxalans (62), Glorious Wakanda (61), Candensia (52), Technocratic Terra (48), Imperial Eagle (45), New Asden (45), Herya (35), Particle (33), Battadia (33), Dabberwocky (33), Fachumonn (31), James Forsyte II (31), International Socialist Union (30), Sanctaria (29), Araznan (28), Aynia Moreaux (26), Madrinpoor (25), NewTexas (24), Tinhampton (23), Kingdom of Englands (22), Tarkov (21), Sheikhun (20), Tostandia (19), Onionist Randosia (16), Concordare (16), Swiftlandian Peoples Republic (16), YoriZ (15), Oi Barbaroi (14), Greater Cuba (13), Carstantinopipal (12), The Democratic Nation of Unovia (12), Atlantian Oceania (11), Thrisho (11), Calnodia (11), Oogway (10), Draganisia (10), Orca and Narwhal (9), Axorian (9), States of Maceio (9), Niveusium (9), His Excellency (8), Eggtowne (8), Seludong (8), Orennica (8), Anoutbhat (8), Korgonsk (8), Mombombu (8), Arazian (7), Valator (7), Libonesia (7), Golanchia (7), Lamoni (7), The Soviet state of Svalbard (6), Solariia (6), Kikittaukak (6), Crupt Quela (6), Edmundian Pluto (6), Olympia-Columbia (5), Chantayak (5), Eastern Kodiak (5), The Age of Utopia (5), Isla Drogas (5), The Greater Australian Commune (5), Loews (5), Angladen (5), Maug (4), Voxija (4), Glaazia (4), Baccalieu (4), Willtechia (4), The Ruby Ranch Republic (4), Lunarossa (4), Peoples Republic of People (4), Libertarian Communist Planets (4), The Dark Crusaders (4), Sovetsya (4), The Flyin (4), Aeagon (4), 15th Scottish Highlanders Division (3), Jawsrael (3), Ryna Cryptia (3), The Metropolitan Free Land (3), Tawir (3), 11 Templar Knights (3), Sevevill (3), Areyse (3), Desertiania (3), Yukonastan (3), Hole Oco (2), Making Catgirls Real (2), Democratic Switzer1and (2), Imperial Vascorium (2), Anterriaa (2), Siochania (2), Fateraistan (2), Bilmar (2), NinjitsUtopia (2), Ciputra (2), Davelands (2), Erasticanius (2), New Amoni (2), Holy Katissa (2), Drawkland (2), Jeradise (2), Lunteris (2), Verlos (2), Great Perm (2), Ostatlantik (2), The Ancient World (2), Narniu (2), Great Nania (2), SherpDaWerp (2), Greater Eireann (2), Romulus III (2), Jaffalonia (2), The Royal Scottish Highlands (2), LSMB (2), Titanfall References (2), Peronlandia (2), Giraffeton (2), United Slavik States (2), Islands Of Ventro (2), Piehu (2), Claderlang (2), Czechostan (2), Pogaria (2), Fillipopolis (2), and (2,303) individual member nations.

Against: 8,814: Madjack (1,148), Albrook (777), PenguinPies (735), Primorye Oblast (291), Minskiev (192), Sunipi (135), Sylh Alanor (120), Ruinenlust (116), Thousand Branches (101), South Boston Irishmen (99), The Glorious Hypetrain (96), ShrewLlamaLand (87), Paramountica (78), Vancouvia (65), Penguin Dictators (64), Mikeswill (62), Enlais (56), Vinslott (53), Yaxopsville (52), Creeperopolis (52), Toonela (49), Octal (41), Castle Federation (29), Josephtan (25), Cruciland (24), Suter (23), Friskalandia (21), Ventus Prime (20), Americatain (18), Funkadelia (17), Candanadium (17), Baloo Kingdom (16), Kekdom (12), Acknowledgement (12), 1-0 OD Guard Divisions (12), Zamastan (11), Alastair McIntyre (11), Brocklandia (10), Azgoghk (10), Santa Thereza (9), Northern Bucovina (9), Yozakura (9), The Bolivian Socialist Falange (9), Corgideamons (9), Monke Bay (9), Acaciatropole (9), Hajirah (9), The Voltarum (9), Vegaga (9), Dow Salold Islands (8), Zvlokiquix (8), The Greastest Nation (8), Otaku Stratus (8), Gumeus (8), Lamplight (8), Natit Vakkazi (7), Chap Ven (7), Alistia (7), Yorkshire and its colonies (7), New Delfos (7), The Great Hedgehogs (7), Banajir (6), Wadelhelpia (6), Shunhao (6), El Tejon (6), Kawaii Fried Children (6), Karliat (6), Madrocea (6), Sig Sauers (6), South Sulphur (6), Wobbegong (5), Rogue River (5), GreasyGrove2 (5), The Chuck (5), The Palentine (5), San Lumen (5), Heliand (5), Khaliffia (5), Bayin (5), Republic of Dixie (5), Astova (5), ColdHeartedBastards (5), A Lawn Sir Best (5), Heidenstaf (5), Ulponia (4), The Order of Makai (4), Wabacha (4), Provinces of Nusantara (4), Halinberg (4), Auxorii (4), The Equnox (4), The Georgeian Empire (4), The Brotherhood of Outcasts (4), Leiustedec (4), Definetly Not A Puppet State (4), Fickonong (4), The eternal rats (4), United Empire of Brazil and English side (3), Herby (3), Greater Bahland (3), Landylan (3), Stem cells (3), Torqtopia (3), Kigasan (3), Philyy (3), New Heaple Womels (3), Auctoristan (3), The Finntopian Empire (3), The Soviet Onions and the Baltics (3), East Thule (3), Skelleftella (3), The Regalian Underland (3), The Mtn Dew (3), Firiya (3), Greenkeep (3), Vladivastock (3), Kater Cas (3), Magna Oceania (3), Lira Night (3), Emilyi (3), Knootoss (3), St Saratoga (3), Republic of Washinton (3), Copmanpeople (3), United Countries of North America (3), Marinonia (3), Haruhi Japan (3), Catlibia (3), Sacky All (3), Skon land (3), Chex Mix (3), Land of the person (3), The Communists of the Multiversal Empire (3), Geidi Centauri Prime (3), Sacadeez (3), Barak Khalad (3), Thona (3), Belykarus (3), Chudwick (2), Eternination (2), The Swiss Legion (2), Nopengie (2), Tsaivao (2), Beazlend (2), Lehqhbraot (2), Zantovia (2), Vianon (2), Atredies (2), Lonitaniatopia (2), Garfile (2), Gran-Brasil (2), Kingdom of Derita (2), Shnrubton (2), Scott Wozniak (2), Kyrname (2), Atreidean Arrakis (2), Microoceania (2), RB8 (2), Always ready for Oktoberfest (2), North kryton (2), Free Sorsogon (2), Chine-Ham (2), Taswil (2), Romaniafield (2), Caylood Hype (2), Purgatoria Secundus (2), Grundabal (2), Marzatopicksniesanci (2), Korpar (2), No-Homo Land (2), Jacobopolus (2), Leafblowers (2), New Pruessen (2), Transylvania Company (2), KurentSlavija (2), Copper-9 (2), Vichtander (2), Brazil FS (2), Sedgistan (2), KaiserRegel (2), The Rising Aura (2), New Nathanland (2), Darambo (2), The Akasha Colony (2), Aarrakynn (2), Libertarian Monarchy Of Arkansas (2), Taylopian (2), The Distanic Confederacy (2), Glangia (2), Adeiatic (2), Mitzvah (2), CVT Greater Peru (2), Vetoland (2), Lakitchia (2), Usthar (2), Lacmhacarh (2), Australimia (2), Draconae (2), Yokashai Israel (2), Zombiedolphins (2), FORKTASTICSTAN (2), I am the High Ground (2), Ceasars Reich (2), Arctic anarchy (2), Republica Democratica Ianomami (2), Opress Island (2), Uklany States (2), Zarvice (2), DanishKingdom (2), and (3,436) individual member nations.

[Indusse]

It's sad to see this proposal getting defeated for such a slight margin and due to various other issues that were brought up on this thread as well as through the RMBs, Forums and Discords of various regions.
First, i would like to thank all those delegates and WA members who decided to vote for the proposal when it was at vote. Not to forget, the delegates who decided to approve the proposal so that it could reach the voting floor.

I had started drafting this proposal in the forums from November 29 2020 (For about 18 Months). Starting with a draft that could get classified as trash compared to many out there which gets drafted, i was able to get this draft into something that had the potential to get to vote and also raise 44.24% support. From the day that this thread was opened, I've closely kept a watch at everyone's comments regarding the nominee and the draft. I got to find that after the voting started, some of them (In here as well as in other platforms) brought up a concern that Llorens isn't commendable. All these eighteen months this draft was in its works, no one (except Bormiar who said this ain't a commendable nominee which i believe was due to the way the draft was written and was nothing more than a resume) brought up the fact that the nominee isn't commendable. Whereas, i got 3 people bringing up that the nominee is commendable excluding members of The Leftist Assembly or NSLeft(Guess and Check, Apatosaurus and Giovanniland). I waited for quiet some time and there was no opposition in having the nominee commendable in this thread, so i had no intention to drop this draft from further drafting. This was one of the major remarks i saw from those who voted against the proposal.

Another remark is that the proposal lacked quality, was rushed or isn't well written. I had waited for about nineteen days before the final submission bumping the thread twice for more comments and suggestions (From here to here). I would've taken a step back from submitting this proposal if someone came forward and said this draft lacked the quality or is poorly written. If you check through the thread in the corresponding dates before submission and at the time of voting, you can find that there's a lot of people claiming that this draft seems to be well-written and of decent standard. A few brought up the fact that is poorly written, if so they could've atleast brought it up in the time of drafting and i could've updated it and finally get into a better resultant draft.

The third and the most important remark in my opinion, is the issue with the author that was brought up in various regional IFVs including that of major WA voting powers. As of this comment made by Emodea (PM of The South Pacific) i completely agree that i had OOC issues in the past. The so described events happened more than two years of the date I'm writing this. Everything started with the publishing of certain OOC problematic logs hailing from my home region "India" around the end of December 2020. India has changed from that situation to a proper, better and a safer environment with Moderation (OOC) as well as IC reforms. I would like to make it clear that i *had* OOC issues in the past and currently *is* not a OOC Problematic individual. I don't think any big or established region or organisation would keep a OOC problematic individual in their region/discord server. Many can find me in a lot of NS related discord servers and also a few regions with a decent activity. The sudden trigger raising the issue with myself was unwanted and those who brought up this remark should've atleast brought it up before this went up for submission. One of those who suggested changes to this proposal a few months back would also be in the group of those regions who voted against stating my past issues.
Here, the user made a comment that goes like: "I think he's worthy of a commendation written by someone who genuinely cares and understands the work he's done. This is not that." I do not understand why the user mentioned here doesn't think i was someone who cared for this proposal. Whenever I was able to get some time i decided to check in for the proposal, make edits and reply to the comments made out here. I decided to bring up such a Proposal just because i felt like the nominee is commendable and my feeling came out to be mutual with a few of those who i had mentioned earlier. I'm sure that Llorens as well as a few individuals in TLA including Kavagrad would've been knowing about my past.

There's a lot of injustice that happened to this proposal in my opinion, i would still be open to redo this and get this up again in the floor for voting. But, before that i would like to see if someone else is interested in taking up this proposal forward (knowing that even if i write a proposal with someone who's 100% commendable, it's not going to pass due to my past?) and getting it passed. Personally, i would like someone from the Leftist Assembly to take over if they're interested. I would love to see if someone is interested to take this up before a week from the publishing of this post.

[Guess and Check]

I waited for quiet some time and there was no opposition in having the nominee commendable in this thread, so i had no intention to drop this draft from further drafting. This was one of the major remarks i saw from those who voted against the proposal.

Typically the SC forums are representative of the wider vote, but not always.

A few brought up the fact that is poorly written, if so they could've atleast brought it up in the time of drafting and i could've updated it and finally get into a better resultant draft.

It is indeed frustrating, but it is also unrealistic to expect this. Its just how the cards fall often here.

who voted against stating my past issues.

To be blunt, I personally voted against due to your past - not much because of the OOC matters (India would not be the first region to reform itself), but rather due to your behavior to Refugia in regards to the whole thing and not much apology from what I've seen.

Not that Refugia wants an apology at all, afaik. And Fwiw I do think you're generally a cool person and applaud you dedication to fixing India. But I personally cannot support the work of someone who took action to discredit a region I'm in, subsequently repeatedly made unwanted ventures for relations afterwards, and hasn't shown much remorse for such things since.

I was only reminded of this during the vote; otherwise I would have stated my lack of support earlier. For that, I apologize.

Beyond that, I firmly think Llo is commendable and while I think the draft could be better in some ways, its passable. But I can see why others think this needs quite a bit more improvement. However, the fact some people voted against because Llo worked only in one region & NST died for a bit when Llo left is what is highly disappointing to me.

[Twertis]

You did a good job drafting, Indusse. TSP et al. may cool down if you keep apologizing when they bring it up and give them a reason to (i.e. by making contributions to the game).

i would still be open to redo this and get this up again in the floor for voting.

That being said, I really don't see why you're so hell-bent on passing a commendation of Llorens. It seems less and less likely that it's going to happen. You created a draft that was well-written enough to pass — despite what a few people have said — and it didn't pass anyways. The problem was not drafting or writing. If you sharpen up the quirks and resubmit, people are likely to vote the same way or switch their votes to against out of annoyance.

Additionally, if you continue to attempt drafts that repeatably fail due to the current climate (your relationship with TSP and current sentiment on Llorens' commendability), the draft will gain the reputation of a repeated failure, like Commend Christian Democrats, Repeal SC#52, Commend/Condemn Cormac, and Commend Tim-Opolis, just off the top of my head.* You can ask Greater Cesnica about how he did that to the Rejected Realms. In other words, you may ruin Llorens' chances.

Remember: I warned you last time .

* Off the top of my head, certain drafts have gone through lots of authors who screwed up prior to passing (e.g. Roavin, Pope Hope). I don't mean those.