[DEFEATED] Commend Llorens

[Erasticanius]

I can agree with many points in this commendation. One that seems to stick out most to me is the fact that throughout the review of this thread, it seems like Llorens is quite well-respected, and many nations have been directly affected by them.

I also want to bring a note to the fact that, as quite a few nations have stated, nations with FAR less reasoning for commendation have been almost overwhelmingly supported! It is therefore that I will be voting FOR this resolution.

[Herby]

I got halfway through the first sentence and I read enough to vote against. “…immensely served”? Like, served the region while being very large? ‘Cause that’s what “immense” means.

[Kavagrad]

I got halfway through the first sentence and I read enough to vote against. “…immensely served”? Like, served the region while being very large? ‘Cause that’s what “immense” means.

We did call him "Big Llo"

[Fachumonn]

I got halfway through the first sentence and I read enough to vote against. “…immensely served”? Like, served the region while being very large? ‘Cause that’s what “immense” means.

The Large Region TLA, not the player Llo'.

[Llorens]

I do be loving the character assassination going on at the moment by some folks.

I don't care whether this resolution passes, but I do care about my legacy. Those who say I didn't do much in my 5 years as an active NS member clearly have short term memories, particularly those in the NSGP community. I built two institutions (not without help at times, but for long periods often doing the heavy-Iifting on my own) that people found community and knowledge about our game from.

To detail, I effectively single-handedly built the foundations of TLA from 2016 to 2019 and remained very active until Feb 2020, building our government, ensuring we had a functioning administrative system, and setting up the processes and customs that defined our region as it emerged into one of the largest UCRs in NS history. For NSToday, once rated by the WA to the be the best interregional newspaper in the game if my memory doesn't fail me, I was its most prolific author to date with almost a hundred articles (many analysing or polling the internal politics of complicated GCRs and mega-UCRs), and was one of its key figures in its initial period during 2019 and then effectively coordinated its second major 2020 revival on my own.

Anyway, do as you will - I'm sure none of the accusations are personal and are more just reflections of how the resolution is written, but I would've thought those who dealt with me in a Barbie-like variety of job descriptions (regional leader, legislator, journalist, diplomat, CEO, etc.) would be a little kinder on the work they know I have done for this browser game.

[Twertis]

I do be loving the character assassination going on at the moment by some folks.

I don't care whether this resolution passes, but I do care about my legacy. Those who say I didn't do much in my 5 years as an active NS member clearly have short term memories, particularly those in the NSGP community. I built two institutions (not without help at times, but for long periods often doing the heavy-Iifting on my own) that people found community and knowledge about our game from.

To detail, I effectively single-handedly built the foundations of TLA from 2016 to 2019 and remained very active until Feb 2020, building our government, ensuring we had a functioning administrative system, and setting up the processes and customs that defined our region as it emerged into one of the largest UCRs in NS history. For NSToday, once rated by the WA to the be the best interregional newspaper in the game if my memory doesn't fail me, I was its most prolific author to date with almost a hundred articles (many analysing or polling the internal politics of complicated GCRs and mega-UCRs), and was one of its key figures in its initial period during 2019 and then effectively coordinated its second major 2020 revival on my own.

Anyway, do as you will - I'm sure none of the accusations are personal and are more just reflections of how the resolution is written, but I would've thought those who dealt with me in a Barbie-like variety of job descriptions (regional leader, legislator, journalist, diplomat, CEO, etc.) would be a little kinder on the work they know I have done for this browser game.

It's comments like these that make me think you do care whether the resolution passes or not. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

The TLA/TCB crowd, for the most part, is a deplorable rabble of red fascists masquerading as your friendly neighborhood pan-leftist community— one which will coincidentally silence those who don’t stand up for real-world atrocities and totalitarianism.

I don’t know whether Llorens is one of them, but that description seems to match many higher-ups in those two regions, and condoning apologism for and denialism of mass murder is plain wrong. Even if this is just a game. Against.

This is deeply concerning to me if this is true. Do you have evidence to back this claim?

No.

[Antinios]

Just to add on to the point of Llo's legislative work in TLA, roughly 40% of all legislation ever written was done by Llo up until his retirement. Many of them forming the crucial backbone of what TLA is today.

[Herby]

I'm sure none of the accusations are personal and are more just reflections of how the resolution is written, but I would've thought those who dealt with me in a Barbie-like variety of job descriptions (regional leader, legislator, journalist, diplomat, CEO, etc.) would be a little kinder on the work they know I have done for this browser game.

See, that’s the thing. To those of us that don’t know you all we have to go on is what’s in the proposal. It’s not well written (poorly worded, stray punctuation, etc) and apparently it has left stuff out. Maybe eventually someone will come along and do a better job of explaining all that you’ve done but this frankly is a mess compared to commendations that have passed. So don’t take it personally.

[Sauros]

Is one allowed to take a failed commendation, add more information onto it, and propose it again in the future? Or would they have to start from scratch? Just curious, in the unfortunate case that this doesn't pass.

[Outer Sparta]

Is one allowed to take a failed commendation, add more information onto it, and propose it again in the future? Or would they have to start from scratch? Just curious, in the unfortunate case that this doesn't pass.

You definitely can if the nominee has more achievements and accomplishments down the road. If you feel they've done more stuff that makes them commendable, then there's nothing wrong with trying again down the road in a good number of months or years.

The original author could definitely do that, but if somebody else were to try to commend the same nominee, then it'll require a different draft (but one that includes all relevant research and achievements).

[Tinhampton]

Llo's been retired for a couple of years now so I'm not sure what's left to add other than an epic canvassing effort among TNP's WA Ministry to convince them that yes, he is Commendable and nothing they say can ever change that

[Free Algerstonia]

The TLA/TCB crowd, for the most part, is a deplorable rabble of red fascists masquerading as your friendly neighborhood pan-leftist community— one which will coincidentally silence those who don’t stand up for real-world atrocities and totalitarianism.

I don’t know whether Llorens is one of them, but that description seems to match many higher-ups in those two regions, and condoning apologism for and denialism of mass murder is plain wrong. Even if this is just a game. Against.

This is deeply concerning to me if this is true. Do you have evidence to back this claim?

Bro, look at their RMB. Both regions are full of tankies. It's all publicly available if you search up things like "China", "Russia", "Ukraine", or "Genocide" and you'll find all sorts of whitewashing.

[Sauros]

Llo's been retired for a couple of years now so I'm not sure what's left to add other than an epic canvassing effort among TNP's WA Ministry to convince them that yes, he is Commendable and nothing they say can ever change that

^^^

[Penguin Dictators]

I'm sure none of the accusations are personal and are more just reflections of how the resolution is written, but I would've thought those who dealt with me in a Barbie-like variety of job descriptions (regional leader, legislator, journalist, diplomat, CEO, etc.) would be a little kinder on the work they know I have done for this browser game.

See, that’s the thing. To those of us that don’t know you all we have to go on is what’s in the proposal. It’s not well written (poorly worded, stray punctuation, etc) and apparently it has left stuff out. Maybe eventually someone will come along and do a better job of explaining all that you’ve done but this frankly is a mess compared to commendations that have passed. So don’t take it personally.

This is kinda where I'm coming from. I don't know Llorens at all aside from seeing the name once in a great while, so all I have is this proposal going on. On the one hand, yes they do sound commendable from what folks have said, though like Herby said apparently a lot of stuff has been left out to make it a real showcase as to why they're commendable. On the other side, it's definitely not well written, and I'll also add that I don't like being DMed on Discord when it comes to bills for approval/vote, let alone thrice for the same bill (as was the case for this one for the approval, again I'm assuming for the approval, and then again to vote on it) and that'll just more than likely push me more in the "Nay" category alone. I'll approve a bill that I like when I see it, and likewise I'll vote on a bill when I see it and when enough of my folks have voted on it since I also follow my region's overall opinion on it (which even they seem divided on it).

[Fachumonn]

After a little deliberation, the Libertarian Socialist Confederation has voted FOR this proposal.

In total, 38 votes from the region have been cast for it.

[Sylh Alanor]

Llo is a good person, I quite liked chatting with him in the TLA server and appreciate the effort he's put into the region and the other work he's done on the site. I think he's worthy of a commendation written by someone who genuinely cares and understands the work he's done. This is not that.

[Sauros]

Llo is a good person, I quite liked chatting with him in the TLA server and appreciate the effort he's put into the region and the other work he's done on the site. I think he's worthy of a commendation written by someone who genuinely cares and understands the work he's done. This is not that.

Well, then why not have somebody write a new one, for it to be replaced in the future? Why can't this one pass and then be repealed at that later time? Why does everything have to be immediately perfect on the first go?

Also, does anybody happen to know the context behind the reasoning in this dispatch?
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1333073

[Sylh Alanor]

Well, then why not have somebody write a new one, for it to be replaced in the future? Why can't this one pass and then be repealed at that later time? Why does everything have to be immediately perfect on the first go?

Indeed, why bother voting on anything at all? We should just have everything automatically pass.

That's obviously silly. The commendation badge isn't the only badge that comes from the passage of the resolution. A repeal only removes one of those badges.

[Sauros]

Well, then why not have somebody write a new one, for it to be replaced in the future? Why can't this one pass and then be repealed at that later time? Why does everything have to be immediately perfect on the first go?

Indeed, why bother voting on anything at all? We should just have everything automatically pass.

That's obviously silly. The commendation badge isn't the only badge that comes from the passage of the resolution. A repeal only removes one of those badges.

Good point. I stand corrected.
Still pissed off that it's taken Llo this long to get recognized, and it's so close yet so far right now as well.

[Cedoria]

This is deeply concerning to me if this is true. Do you have evidence to back this claim?

Bro, look at their RMB. Both regions are full of tankies. It's all publicly available if you search up things like "China", "Russia", "Ukraine", or "Genocide" and you'll find all sorts of whitewashing.

What that has to do with Llo, who retired from active regional work about two years ago and whose opinions in no way resemble “talkie” is beyond me, even if that argument were true.
Also not sure how opinions on RL issues are relevant to commendations that relate to gameside contributions.

Regardless, can definitely back up those who say Llorens thoroughly deserves the commendation. If this one fails, I hope a future resolution will be written which gives him the recognition he deserves for his many years of work.

[Emodea]

Also, does anybody happen to know the context behind the reasoning in this dispatch?
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1333073

Hello! Prime Minister of the South Pacific here.

The author, Indusse, was banned from our region due to his apologism of Hindutva (for those unaware, it's a far-right ideology originating from India which seeks to establish a Hindu-only hegemony in the country, at the expense of other religious minorities present there), as well as his association with some extreme Hindutva elements in early 2021. That ban still holds up to this day, so the majority of the South Pacificans who voted to decide our Delegate's stance on this resolution likely kept that in mind and voted accordingly.

I personally believe Llorens to be a Commendable figure, but think that he deserves a better proposal than this one. I would definitely encourage any prospective authors looking at this thread with interest to give it another whirl, as it's pretty unlikely that this will pass given the issues already raised by others here.

Thanks!

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

I’ve only been marginally involved in this thread, but I have been keeping an eye on it. The author appeared to be listening to and acting upon various editorial suggestions from respected SC regulars and wasn’t rushing to submission.

I don’t know how, therefore, it ended up as a bit of a dog’s dinner. Llorens is definitely commendable, but this isn’t the proposal to do it. I understand a lot of work over quite a period of time has gone into this, but the end result doesn’t cut the mustard I’m afraid.

Against.

[Llorens]

Personal favourite is those thinking I'm a tankie. There are some folks who would be very entertained by that suggestion!

[Vietstalia]

OOC: Imma be honest, I just vote of their policies.

Against.