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[DRAFT] Condemn Lily

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Aredita
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[DRAFT] Condemn Lily

Postby Aredita » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:23 am

The Security Council;

RECOGNIZING that the region of Lily has caused destruction to many regions using their ruthless invasion tactics, such as destroying World Factbook Entries with advertisements.

OBSERVING that Lily slaughters innocent regions with no initiative but to gain power and advertise themselves.

NOTING Lily's most condemnable actions.
  • A historical region (Arkansas) that was founded in 2010. This region, at one point, was also the featured region, and was home to 14 nations. This region was invaded by Lily. Lily closed all of the embassies and ruined the regions historical essence. Sence this, no one has really noticed this region. Even though it's one of the oldest regions that still hasn't ceased.
  • The once-mighty Teds Nationstate Emporium, had over 110 nations in it. However, when you look at this region now, it is simply a big billboard for Lily. Lily invaded this mighty region. Now, it's an advertisement for their brutal cause.
  • A simple region, just starting out (The Social Democratic Alliance) was invaded right from the beginning. It didn't even have a chance to defend itself. Who knows, maybe it's founder was a new NationStates player. Being a new player of NationStates, you don't know a lot about it. Lily will do anything to gain power even if it means picking off an unexpecting player.

BELIEVING that by condemning Lily, they will understand the true horror in their actions.

POSTULATING the fact that it is the Security Councils’ responsibility to take action and condemn these acts.

DISAPPOINTED that little to no action has been taken from the Security Council to intervene.

HOPING that the Security Council will understand the enormity of Lily’s horrendous acts, and will take decisive action to condemn them.

Herby condemns Lily.
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Megistos
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Postby Megistos » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:25 am

Pretty sure mention of actual game and RL (NationStates, featured region, 2010) isn't allowed in proposals.
Last edited by Megistos on Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aredita
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R4(c)

Postby Aredita » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:27 am

Could someone define R4(c) please? It's hard to understand.

"You cannot refer to the game, or events or actions in it, as part of a game."
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Postby Megistos » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:29 am

Aredita wrote:Could someone define R4(c) please? It's hard to understand.

"You cannot refer to the game, or events or actions in it, as part of a game."

Like, you cannot refer to NationStates at all, and you can't refer to something like defending or raiding as part of nationstates, I think.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:38 am

Megistos wrote:
Aredita wrote:Could someone define R4(c) please? It's hard to understand.

"You cannot refer to the game, or events or actions in it, as part of a game."

Like, you cannot refer to NationStates at all, and you can't refer to something like defending or raiding as part of nationstates, I think.

Incorrect. Try reading the rules before posting please.

You can talk about raids, you can detail what happened. You can talk about NS as NS or the universe or multiverse. You cannot use phrases like being a “new NationStates player” because that is referring to NS as a game.
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Loconianiccurelliver
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Postby Loconianiccurelliver » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:44 am

I support this resolution but it does need to be fixed to remove meta-gaming from the structure.

For instance replace
RECOGNIZING that the region of Lily has caused destruction to many regions using their ruthless invasion tactics, such as destroying World Factbook Entries with advertisements.
with something referring to lily burning museums or books. It makes sense as that would be the analog for what they have done where it to have happened in real life.

Also the NOTING section is riddled with meta-gaming. I would change it to something like:
NOTING Lily's most condemnable actions.
A historical region (Arkansas) that half existed for many years. This region was invaded by Lily. Lily cut off outside diplomatic ties and ruined the regions historical essence. Sense this, no one has really noticed this region. Even though it's one of the oldest regions that still hasn't ceased.
The once-mighty Teds Nationstate Emporium, had much influence in the world. However, when you look at this region now, it is simply a big billboard for Lily. Lily invaded this mighty region. Now, it's an advertisement for their brutal cause.
A simple region, just starting out (The Social Democratic Alliance) was invaded right from the beginning. It didn't even have a chance to defend itself. The nations leadership was newly appointed and inexperienced in politics. Lily will do anything to gain power even if it means picking off an innocent nation.


This resolution also has some spelling errors which need fixing and could do with a little more textual meat on its bones just because smaller resolutions often come off as less professional. Otherwise I support this fully and would vote if it reaches the WA.
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Makdon
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Postby Makdon » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:47 am

Props to you for pulling your proposal and trying to draft it. A case could be made for condemnation of lily, but it would need to be a very well written and researched one.

Aredita wrote:The Security Council;

RECOGNIZING that the region of Lily has caused destruction to many regions using their ruthless invasion tactics, such as destroying World Factbook Entries with advertisements.

I mean yeah, but that's hardly exceptional. Plenty of regions tag raid, what makes lily special? What makes it condemnable? Be explicit. Also, this isn't a rule, but it's normal syntax to at least have clauses all be one sentence, and often to make the entire resolution one long run on.

OBSERVING that Lily slaughters innocent regions with no initiative but to gain power and advertise themselves.

Once again, this is nothing special, plenty of people do this. You need to show how lily is unique

NOTING Lily's most condemnable actions.
  • A historical region (Arkansas) that was founded in 2010. This region, at one point, was also the featured region, and was home to 14 nations. This region was invaded by Lily. Lily closed all of the embassies and ruined the regions historical essence. Sence this, no one has really noticed this region. Even though it's one of the oldest regions that still hasn't ceased.
  • The once-mighty Teds Nationstate Emporium, had over 110 nations in it. However, when you look at this region now, it is simply a big billboard for Lily. Lily invaded this mighty region. Now, it's an advertisement for their brutal cause.
  • A simple region, just starting out (The Social Democratic Alliance) was invaded right from the beginning. It didn't even have a chance to defend itself. Who knows, maybe it's founder was a new NationStates player. Being a new player of NationStates, you don't know a lot about it. Lily will do anything to gain power even if it means picking off an unexpecting player.

Are these really the most condemnable things lily has done? I think not, none of these are exceptional at all. Additionally the writing is just a mess. Try and write with more variety and mix up your sentence structure is the best advice I can give, but this isn't really workable as is. As for R(4)c, you can use the terms Nationstates and world factbook entires and use real word dates. I'm not sure whether featured region is acceptable, but I'd hazard a pretty confident guess that it is. However, this proposal does violate r4c. Referring to nations as nationstates players, which you do thrice, is obviously illegal.

BELIEVING that by condemning Lily, they will understand the true horror in their actions.

POSTULATING the fact that it is the Security Councils’ responsibility to take action and condemn these acts.

DISAPPOINTED that little to no action has been taken from the Security Council to intervene.

HOPING that the Security Council will understand the enormity of Lily’s horrendous acts, and will take decisive action to condemn them.

Herby condemns Lily.

This is all very eh. I mean, it's not really bad, though it could be written nicer, but it really doesn't matter if you don't do a good job showing what lily has done and why it's bad beforehand, which you haven't. My advice is to nix this draft for now, stay around and see how the SC operates, and continue to do research on lily so you can draft a better written version in the future if you still want to pursue this
Last edited by Makdon on Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:55 am

Loconianiccurelliver wrote:I support this resolution but it does need to be fixed to remove meta-gaming from the structure.

<snip>

Also the NOTING section is riddled with meta-gaming. <snip>

Again please read the rules, look up meta-gaming in the Compendium. It is almost impossible to meta-game in the SC.
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Postby Sweeze » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:43 pm

10/10 i would absolutely vote for this when it makes quorum
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Postby Comfed » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:27 pm

So regions were tagged? That’s your evidence for condemnation?
Sorry, but no.
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Postby Sedgistan » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:14 pm

I know it has been pointed out already, but for the author's sake I would like to reiterate that the advice given by Megistos and Loconianiccurelliver on the SC proposal rules is incorrect.

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Aredita
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Um

Postby Aredita » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:37 pm

Sweeze wrote:10/10 i would absolutely vote for this when it makes quorum

But, your part of Lily. The region I'm trying to get condemned.
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Postby Noahs Second Country » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:59 pm

Aredita wrote:
Sweeze wrote:10/10 i would absolutely vote for this when it makes quorum

But, your part of Lily. The region I'm trying to get condemned.

Shiny badge = good.

The concept of this proposal seems plausible to me but you definitely need to start asking questions to the right people and put together a more detailed resolution here. Currently the proposal is vague and indicates that you don't really know too much about the nominee.
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Postby Praeceps » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:01 pm

Feedback for this proposal is that more research needs to be done (by yourself) before it is really ready to be put here for feedback. That being said, thank you for pulling the proposal from the queue and drafting it here. While I do not know all of the specifics, I would suggest looking through Lily's GP thread, I believe they hold a number of records for raiding which could be included.

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Loconianiccurelliver wrote:I support this resolution but it does need to be fixed to remove meta-gaming from the structure.

<snip>

Also the NOTING section is riddled with meta-gaming. <snip>

It is almost impossible to meta-game in the SC.

Sounds like a challenge. ;)
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Postby Honeydewistania » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:01 pm

Condemn wasttw
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Postby Wayneactia » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:38 pm

Reeks an awful like a badge hunt to me. No research whatsoever. Likely someone jonesing for a badge in an attempt to boost their card status.

You can probably guess where I stand on this...
Last edited by Wayneactia on Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Outer Sparta » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:00 pm

Doesn't seem like Lily is condemnable enough.
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Postby Refuge Isle » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:06 pm

Aredita wrote:
Sweeze wrote:10/10 i would absolutely vote for this when it makes quorum

But, your part of Lily. The region I'm trying to get condemned.

Yes, condemnations for raiding are typically recognitions of achievement. That doesn't mean they are not viable, but if you want to shame a raider, ignore them :lol:

On the other hand, if you do want to proceed with a condemnation like this regardless, then research your target! What's their history? What makes them notable and extraordinary? Why does what they do matter to the WA? All of this should be comprehensive content in your proposal's arguments.

Wayneactia wrote:Reeks an awful like a badge hunt to me. No research whatsoever. Likely someone jonesing for a badge in an attempt to boost their card status.

You can probably guess where I stand on this...

Doesn't really track. People who want to up their card rarity would have a much easier time doing so by answering issues, which the author does not seem to do. I much more suspect this is an effort to bring attention to their region through their founder acting as a representative and trying to make an impact in the WA. Can't say I haven't done the same :blush:

Outer Sparta wrote:Doesn't seem like Lily is condemnable enough.

I'm inclined to agree. The stint with Lardyland and Japan notwithstanding, I don't think that you can have a org condemned for doing tags alone, even if there are thousands of them. The group that is most attentive and supportive of breaking tag records through script raiding is, naturally, Lily. Outside of that, Lily makes no more of an impact on the grand scheme of things than any other tag group.
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Postby Honeydewistania » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 pm

There is potential but you need to get knee deep in details and specifics if you want a smidgeon of a chance of this passing
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Postby The Unified Missourtama States » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:23 am

Lily is condemnable, but not for just the reasons listed. Other people have already multiple times pointed out the blatant illegalities, so I will just leave you with this: There is no need to italicize 3 blocks of paragraph.
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Postby South Acren » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:25 am

This needs heavy work, but full support.
Perhaps list more of why they deserve the condemnation, while also following R4(c)
Last edited by South Acren on Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:41 am

A more detailed dissection of the draft.

Aredita wrote:The Security Council;

RECOGNIZING that the region of Lily has caused destruction to many regions using their ruthless invasion tactics, such as destroying World Factbook Entries with advertisements.

OBSERVING that Lily slaughters innocent regions with no initiative but to gain power and advertise themselves.

Two clauses which in reality say the same thing, so basically filler.

Aredita wrote:NOTING Lily's most condemnable actions.
  • A historical region (Arkansas) that was founded in 2010. This region, at one point, was also the featured region, and was home to 14 nations. This region was invaded by Lily. Lily closed all of the embassies and ruined the regions historical essence. Sence this, no one has really noticed this region. Even though it's one of the oldest regions that still hasn't ceased.
  • The once-mighty Teds Nationstate Emporium, had over 110 nations in it. However, when you look at this region now, it is simply a big billboard for Lily. Lily invaded this mighty region. Now, it's an advertisement for their brutal cause.
  • A simple region, just starting out (The Social Democratic Alliance) was invaded right from the beginning. It didn't even have a chance to defend itself. Who knows, maybe it's founder was a new NationStates player. Being a new player of NationStates, you don't know a lot about it. Lily will do anything to gain power even if it means picking off an unexpecting player.

These three supposedly Condemnable actions are very poorly written; spelling mistakes, grammatical errors and illegalities. Bit of a dog’s breakfast really. Trying to convince people that these events are the most condemnable things Lily has done highlights the paucity of your research.

Aredita wrote:BELIEVING that by condemning Lily, they will understand the true horror in their actions.

No, they will regard it as a badge of honour.

Aredita wrote:POSTULATING the fact that it is the Security Councils’ responsibility to take action and condemn these acts.

Only if someone can convince the SC to do that and on the evidence provided by this draft that’s not going to happen

Aredita wrote:DISAPPOINTED that little to no action has been taken from the Security Council to intervene.

Just to remind you a Condemnation is a shiny badge, it does nothing else.

Aredita wrote:HOPING that the Security Council will understand the enormity of Lily’s horrendous acts, and will take decisive action to condemn them.

Herby condemns Lily.

Another filler clause, means nothing.

Overall not researched and sloppy writing. You also don’t seem to understand that Condemnations are generally awarded to regions or nations that have played the villain well over a period of time. Lily, in my opinion, are not at that stage. Your draft does little to convince otherwise.
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Goobergunchia » Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:04 pm

Aredita wrote:RECOGNIZING that the region of Lily has caused destruction to many regions using their ruthless invasion tactics, such as destroying World Factbook Entries with advertisements.


Region destruction has a meaning. As much as I find Lily's WFEs to be garish nightmares that deserve aggressive reverting, I'd not suggest that this is nearly as heinous as actual region destruction.
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International Tranzorian Program
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Postby International Tranzorian Program » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:15 pm

Just so you know, I'm actually creating a Condemn Lily right now.

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International Tranzorian Program
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Postby International Tranzorian Program » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:23 pm

:)
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