[PASSED] Commend King HEM

[Glacikaldr]

Why is it now controversial to say that raiding is against the interests of the World Assembly?

This is why we have condemnations: for people who raid. Stop including non-defender affiliations in commendation proposals. Save them for condemnations; these arguments against HS are disingenuous at best.

[Sandaoguo]

It's a really dumb mistake to use TSP here as a way to bolster HEM, when Europeia quite literally tried to blackmail TSP when we allied with TRR and Lazarus (defender back then). Europeia blatantly threatened us with attack/retaliation over a glorified imperialist festival, if we tried to attend both their silly festival and one being hosted by Lazarus about regional sovereignty. Since then, HEM and Europeia have been nothing but hostile to TSP.

TSP made a formal request to remove references to our region, which appears to have been completely ignored.

[Westinor]

TNP stands firmly For this resolution, and our delegate has lodged a vote accordingly. We strongly advise all delegates and member nations to vote for this resolution. Further information on our stance can be found in our IFV Dispatch here.

[Comfed]

Why is it now controversial to say that raiding is against the interests of the World Assembly?

This is why we have condemnations: for people who raid. Stop including non-defender affiliations in commendation proposals. Save them for condemnations; these arguments against HS are disingenuous at best.

This proposal hardly glorifies raiding. It focuses on region-building.

[Crowheim]

Here are my reasons for opposotion:

A) there's a lot of mention of the previous imperialist Europeia, along with LKE, two regions that should probably not be commended.
B) It talks a lot about his raiding without really spinning it well enough to make it commendable.
C) It essentially reads as a second commendation for Europeia itself, one that's not really deserved.
D) There's an issue with Sopo being the author, as it seems a bit like patting himself and his friends on the back.

HEM is definitely commendable and should be commendable but imo the fact that it's coming from Europeia, looks like commend Europeia, and doesn't do enough spin work and justification of debatable actions makes this specific proposal a no go for me.

I'd like to see a different draft or a new attempt, HEM does deserve a commendation, just not like this. I urge delegates and members of the World Assembly to vote down this proposal for these reasons.

[The Nation of the People of the Nation]

Here are my reasons for opposotion:

A) there's a lot of mention of the previous imperialist Europeia, along with LKE, two regions that should probably not be commended.
B) It talks a lot about his raiding without really spinning it well enough to make it commendable.
C) It essentially reads as a second commendation for Europeia itself, one that's not really deserved.
D) There's an issue with Sopo being the author, as it seems a bit like patting himself and his friends on the back.

HEM is definitely commendable and should be commendable but imo the fact that it's coming from Europeia, looks like commend Europeia, and doesn't do enough spin work and justification of debatable actions makes this specific proposal a no go for me.

I'd like to see a different draft or a new attempt, HEM does deserve a commendation, just not like this. I urge delegates and members of the World Assembly to vote down this proposal for these reasons.

A) Euro isn't Imperialist.
B) There is one subclause about his work in the Europeian Republican Navy, it's mainly a region building Commend.
C) HEM is the founder of Europeia and put a lot of work in to it, that is where the majority of his work is so of course the majority of the commend is going to be Euro stuff.
D) You later say HEM is deserving, in which case why does it matter if Sopo did it? He wrote an in depth and well researched commendation, shouldn't matter.

[Pluvie]

B) There is one subclause about his work in the Europeian Republican Navy, it's mainly a region building Commend.

Hmm maybe I'm reading the proposal wrong, but I actually saw that clause less as a commendation for raiding and more as a commendation for region building in the context of the military. I don't think it was saying they did a great job raiding and more that they did a great job building the military into something better. Lmk if I misunderstood that tho.

[Crowheim]

Here are my reasons for opposotion:

A) there's a lot of mention of the previous imperialist Europeia, along with LKE, two regions that should probably not be commended.
B) It talks a lot about his raiding without really spinning it well enough to make it commendable.
C) It essentially reads as a second commendation for Europeia itself, one that's not really deserved.
D) There's an issue with Sopo being the author, as it seems a bit like patting himself and his friends on the back.

HEM is definitely commendable and should be commendable but imo the fact that it's coming from Europeia, looks like commend Europeia, and doesn't do enough spin work and justification of debatable actions makes this specific proposal a no go for me.

I'd like to see a different draft or a new attempt, HEM does deserve a commendation, just not like this. I urge delegates and members of the World Assembly to vote down this proposal for these reasons.

A) Euro isn't Imperialist.
B) There is one subclause about his work in the Europeian Republican Navy, it's mainly a region building Commend.
C) HEM is the founder of Europeia and put a lot of work in to it, that is where the majority of his work is so of course the majority of the commend is going to be Euro stuff.
D) You later say HEM is deserving, in which case why does it matter if Sopo did it? He wrote an in depth and well researched commendation, shouldn't matter.

A) It used to be and it still does fall into said sphere.
B) It isn’t spun in a way which makes it seem positive enough, raiding shouldn’t be commended by this body, especially not in such a blunt state.
C) Then accredit his accomplishments instead of the things that Euro has done. You guys already have a commendation. Seeing this one so closely mirror your commend is a little bit disappointing.
D) Other criticisms of this proposal non-withstanding it looks very very iffy and like a self-commend when it comes from one of HEM’s good friend. Having a more clearly impartial author would be very preferable.

Additional thing: leaving the TSP clause in is a big big mistake.

[The Nation of the People of the Nation]

I will only really refute your middle two points and the TSP one, I'm not going to go around in circles about Imperialism and Sopo's involvement. Please say when it talks about HEM raiding other than the clause that doesn't even really talk about raiding. Also it for the most part focuses on the things HEM has done as President and Chief of State of Europeia, I really don't know what you are complaining about.

As for TSP, just because the current government doesn't like HEM doesn't mean that he never contributed to the region. He did quite a bit of work for the region from 2010-2014 as the Commendation says.

A) Euro isn't Imperialist.
B) There is one subclause about his work in the Europeian Republican Navy, it's mainly a region building Commend.
C) HEM is the founder of Europeia and put a lot of work in to it, that is where the majority of his work is so of course the majority of the commend is going to be Euro stuff.
D) You later say HEM is deserving, in which case why does it matter if Sopo did it? He wrote an in depth and well researched commendation, shouldn't matter.

A) It used to be and it still does fall into said sphere.
B) It isn’t spun in a way which makes it seem positive enough, raiding shouldn’t be commended by this body, especially not in such a blunt state.
C) Then accredit his accomplishments instead of the things that Euro has done. You guys already have a commendation. Seeing this one so closely mirror your commend is a little bit disappointing.
D) Other criticisms of this proposal non-withstanding it looks very very iffy and like a self-commend when it comes from one of HEM’s good friend. Having a more clearly impartial author would be very preferable.

Additional thing: leaving the TSP clause in is a big big mistake.

I will only really refute your middle two points and the TSP one, I'm not going to go around in circles about Imperialism and Sopo's involvement. Please say when it talks about HEM raiding other than the clause that doesn't even really talk about raiding. Also it for the most part focuses on the things HEM has done as President and Chief of State of Europeia, I really don't know what you are complaining about.

As for TSP, just because the current government doesn't like HEM doesn't mean that he never contributed to the region. He did quite a bit of work for the region from 2010-2014 as the Commendation says.

[Maowi]

It is fairly commonplace for commendations to be authored by region-mates of the nominee, for the simple reason that they are likely to be the people best placed to have information and insight into their career and contributions, as well as to have the motivation to actually get it done. E.g. an example that springs to mind is Kuriko with Commend Markanite and Commend Paffnia.

(edit - typo)

[Refuge Isle]

It is fairly commonplace for commendations to be authored by region-mates of the nominee, for the simple reason that they are likely to be the people best placed to have information and insight into their career and contributions, as well as to have the motivation to actually get it done. E.g. an example the springs to mind is Kuriko with Commend Markanite and Commend Paffnia.

Seconding Maowi, region-mates are not enough for me to consider a proposal a self-commend.

If a nation tries to write a resolution, targetting the region they're in, of course they have a conflict of interest, they gain a passive benefit from that resolution passing. But if we took out resolutions that were the author knew the target, we would have a markedly more difficult drafting process. Either the author would need to profess to knowing nothing about their target beforehand or they would need to pass some manner of equally impractical litmus test, predicated on how friendly the two of them were really. It just gets ridiculous in a hurry.

It's more reasonable to accept that resolutions may be written by those who were witness to some degree of what is being discussed.

[Scherzinger]

against this proposal. dont even know the nation up for commendation

[Crowheim]

A) It used to be and it still does fall into said sphere.
B) It isn’t spun in a way which makes it seem positive enough, raiding shouldn’t be commended by this body, especially not in such a blunt state.
C) Then accredit his accomplishments instead of the things that Euro has done. You guys already have a commendation. Seeing this one so closely mirror your commend is a little bit disappointing.
D) Other criticisms of this proposal non-withstanding it looks very very iffy and like a self-commend when it comes from one of HEM’s good friend. Having a more clearly impartial author would be very preferable.

Additional thing: leaving the TSP clause in is a big big mistake.

I will only really refute your middle two points and the TSP one, I'm not going to go around in circles about Imperialism and Sopo's involvement. Please say when it talks about HEM raiding other than the clause that doesn't even really talk about raiding. Also it for the most part focuses on the things HEM has done as President and Chief of State of Europeia, I really don't know what you are complaining about.

As for TSP, just because the current government doesn't like HEM doesn't mean that he never contributed to the region. He did quite a bit of work for the region from 2010-2014 as the Commendation says.

1) The clause about the ERN, which conducts mainly raids, no? As for commending him rather than the region, I hold it treads a very thin line between just commending what he caused by founding and what he actually *did*.

2) TSP reviled his contributions. They do not want them. If the very region you’re claiming was so bettered by his involvement doesn’t want their names on his badge, we have a problem.

It is fairly commonplace for commendations to be authored by region-mates of the nominee, for the simple reason that they are likely to be the people best placed to have information and insight into their career and contributions, as well as to have the motivation to actually get it done. E.g. an example the springs to mind is Kuriko with Commend Markanite and Commend Paffnia.

It continues to leave a bad taste in my mouth in all instances. I think the potential for bias and commending one’s friends for only that reason are too strong, especially in this case.

[Varanius]

Opposing resolutions because the author is in the same region has always seemed absurd to me. If the actions and commendable, and the resolution is of a good quality and accurate, why does it matter if the person who wrote it is in the same region? Unless that somehow makes the proposal inaccurate, that’d be different, but that clearly isn’t happening here. It’s just a ridiculous argument.

[Crowheim]

Opposing resolutions because the author is in the same region has always seemed absurd to me. If the actions and commendable, and the resolution is of a good quality and accurate, why does it matter if the person who wrote it is in the same region? Unless that somehow makes the proposal inaccurate, that’d be different, but that clearly isn’t happening here. It’s just a ridiculous argument.

But this proposal is somewhat inaccurate or at least misleading. Look at the TSP clauses, which have been contested.

[Westwind]

I rarely post in these parts. But I wanted to say that Hem's earned a Commendation through his hard work and dedication to his regions, communities, and the game itself. It's overdue.

As for Hem and The South Pacific, the Resolution understates his contributions.

For.

[A Bloodred Moon]

A) It used to be and it still does fall into said sphere.

In 2008, yes. For the last half a decade, not so much. Not to mention that an imperialist sphere would require there to be multiple imperialist regions - currently, only the LKE is a significant imperialist region.

B) It isn’t spun in a way which makes it seem positive enough, raiding shouldn’t be commended by this body, especially not in such a blunt state.

I may be mistaken, but where does it mention raids? The military-related clause reads more like an organisation-building thing and doesn’t mention raiding at all.

Additional thing: leaving the TSP clause in is a big big mistake.

How so? HEM has done commendable work in TSP. It is not at all illogical to leave it in - in fact, I’d say it’d be unfair not to include it.

But this proposal is somewhat inaccurate or at least misleading. Look at the TSP clauses, which have been contested.

What are you basing this on? How are they inaccurate or misleading?

[Queen Yuno]

I refuse to support a person like HEM. HEM acted completely unethical toward me, even though it was not his business, and has yet to even settle our dispute or apologize to me or care an ounce about the hurt it caused. Years later, I see this proposal show up on my feed for me to vote on, obviously my first gut instinct is to vote NO.

Because screw all that.

There are always some supporters and non-supporters in every proposal, group me in the latter group. Voting Against.

I don't care how popular someone is. What hurt me, gets my honest reaction.

[United States of Americanas]

Noting their good deeds I cannot support a commendation as the target nation produces babies in vats and supports child labor. I vehemently reject this proposal.

[Lotrisia]

Additional thing: leaving the TSP clause in is a big big mistake.

How so? HEM has done commendable work in TSP. It is not at all illogical to leave it in - in fact, I’d say it’d be unfair not to include it.

But this proposal is somewhat inaccurate or at least misleading. Look at the TSP clauses, which have been contested.

What are you basing this on? How are they inaccurate or misleading?[/quote]

In case you're unaware, HEM is the ruler of a region which has explicitly threatened the South Pacific with invasion in an attempt to force us away from long-standing allies, which would alone be grounds for us stripping any commendations HEM receives for actions in our region. Moreover, when the South Pacific lodged an official complaint against our inclusion in the commendation, the sections including us in the commendation were expanded further. It's in bad faith to include TSP, a region towards which Europeia has been consistently and decisively hostile, in a commendation of Europeia's founder, especially in light of our official complaints towards such

[Belschaft]

As I've said previously, HEM made numerous significant contributions to TSP which are worthy of inclusion. That the region's military and foreign policy in 2021 is very different from what it was in 2010-14 doesn't change that fact, and various talking heads who weren't around during that time period declaring that this isn't the case is simply petulant, childish nonsense.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I voted against because old habits die hard, but congratulations to HEM for being a popular guy and also some other things!

[Varanius]

I voted against because old habits die hard, but congratulations to HEM for being a popular guy and also some other things!

I guess what is dead may never die....

[Flanderlion]

Opposing resolutions because the author is in the same region has always seemed absurd to me. If the actions and commendable, and the resolution is of a good quality and accurate, why does it matter if the person who wrote it is in the same region? Unless that somehow makes the proposal inaccurate, that’d be different, but that clearly isn’t happening here. It’s just a ridiculous argument.

It's bad form, like the nominee commenting in the thread. That said, I'm overlooking it as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

[Honeydewistania]

Opposing resolutions because the author is in the same region has always seemed absurd to me. If the actions and commendable, and the resolution is of a good quality and accurate, why does it matter if the person who wrote it is in the same region? Unless that somehow makes the proposal inaccurate, that’d be different, but that clearly isn’t happening here. It’s just a ridiculous argument.

It's bad form, like the nominee commenting in the thread. That said, I'm overlooking it as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

How is either of those bad form?