[PASSED] Liberate Syria

[Aureumterra]

OOC: I feel like 10k Islands is just starting to use their WA influence to throw around petty liberations on regions no one cares about by this point

[WayNeacTia]

This is what it has come to? Now you are going to try and spin this into an anti-fascist crusade? Do you have any proof whatsoever that the holding parties are fascist sympathizers or blacklisted players? Any at all?

TWC are known for collaborating with fascist regions

You saying something does not constitute proof.

[Honeydewistania]

TWC are known for collaborating with fascist regions

You saying something does not constitute proof.

- Red Alliance

Region Liberated from Nazi sympathizer regions United Republic of Octavia, Republican Army and now former Nazi sympathizer The Wolf Clan.

WFE restored by The MT Army (+super sneaky friends), The Red Fleet and The Order of the Grey Wardens.

Native resident Celezydra was given powers to enforce a regional password, reducing the chance of future enemy invasions.

The Following MT Army Warriors assisted this operation:

- Fiel Chrorue (Vippertooth33).
- Denkengedunken (Sprechenland).
- Uniock (Blunt speakers).
- Gi-krycek.
- Bottomlessly howling participants (Rindonesia).
- Sweeze II.
- Craziwolf.

Nazi/Fascist Sympathizers WFE Screenshot: https://imgur.com/pM66HdW
Native thank you post on RMB screenshot: https://imgur.com/Epw44F1

Territory of The MT Army!!!

Captured: 04.08.18

This region, formally allied to Nazi Europa, Nazi/Fascist sympathizers The Wolf Clan and harboring Nazi nations such as New nazi comrade, has been captured by the mighty Anti-Nazi/Fascist Warriors of The MT Army and shall serve as a museum against HATE in perpetuity.

Its invasion serves as a reminder that hate mongering will not be tolerated by the truly free people of this world. We cannot allow hate to spread to the young and impressionable of society, because it will only hurt/slow the progression of humanity in the long run.

We are ANTIFA and we are everywhere!

Vippertooth33: The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing!

Sources:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=35095432
https://www.nationstates.net/region=terran_blood

[WayNeacTia]

You saying something does not constitute proof.

- Red Alliance

Region Liberated from Nazi sympathizer regions United Republic of Octavia, Republican Army and now former Nazi sympathizer The Wolf Clan.

WFE restored by The MT Army (+super sneaky friends), The Red Fleet and The Order of the Grey Wardens.

Native resident Celezydra was given powers to enforce a regional password, reducing the chance of future enemy invasions.

The Following MT Army Warriors assisted this operation:

- Fiel Chrorue (Vippertooth33).
- Denkengedunken (Sprechenland).
- Uniock (Blunt speakers).
- Gi-krycek.
- Bottomlessly howling participants (Rindonesia).
- Sweeze II.
- Craziwolf.

Nazi/Fascist Sympathizers WFE Screenshot: https://imgur.com/pM66HdW
Native thank you post on RMB screenshot: https://imgur.com/Epw44F1

Territory of The MT Army!!!

Captured: 04.08.18

This region, formally allied to Nazi Europa, Nazi/Fascist sympathizers The Wolf Clan and harboring Nazi nations such as New nazi comrade, has been captured by the mighty Anti-Nazi/Fascist Warriors of The MT Army and shall serve as a museum against HATE in perpetuity.

Its invasion serves as a reminder that hate mongering will not be tolerated by the truly free people of this world. We cannot allow hate to spread to the young and impressionable of society, because it will only hurt/slow the progression of humanity in the long run.

We are ANTIFA and we are everywhere!

Vippertooth33: The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing!

Sources:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=35095432
https://www.nationstates.net/region=terran_blood

Great. Still waiting on some actual proof and not the sole word of the MT Army and the Red Fleet.

[Honeydewistania]

Sources:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=35095432
https://www.nationstates.net/region=terran_blood

Great. Still waiting on some actual proof and not the sole word of the MT Army and the Red Fleet.

Except the first one wasn't the word of the MT Army, rather proof that TWC along with a bunch of fash sympathisers raided an innocent region, but ok.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=35729999 <- Morrighan is a known Nazi and fascist and racist etc

[Twobagger]

At this point, it's kind of a red herring, isn't it?

If the author was convinced that the raiders who took the region were fascist, and thought that this was a good reason to Liberate this region, then this argument should have been put in the proposal. It's a bit thin as is, and could use some actual substance. There have been proposals that mention anti-fascism, so it's surely not illegal. It's not like the author was running into a character limit or anything. Being occupied by fascists and fascist sympathizers makes it less likely that nations will pile in to support, and more likely that organizations (such as Antifa) will help to liberate that region. The author could have also had anti-fascists come into this thread to express their support.

It would have been the path of least resistance, if the author thought that it was both true and relevant. Assuming that the raiders actually are fascist, and the author isn't just trying to imply that the people opposing this poorly-written resolution are indifferent to fascism, why isn't the argument in the proposal?

Edit: I had some criteria regarding the author, but really if the fascism claims are substantiated, I'd be willing to support a draft from an author that doesn't advance a petty "raider bad" agenda, who doesn't hail from a region that advances that kind of agenda, and who puts the relevant arguments in the draft. I'm not picky.

[Sodoran Alesia]

Seeing the new posts with sufficient evidence on the identities of the raiders, I change my stance to for. I do wish this was brought up earlier though rather than the whole non-argument on RL place names as it completely changes the purpose of the proposal from preserving it for a nonexistent community to protecting it from fash.

[WayNeacTia]

Great. Still waiting on some actual proof and not the sole word of the MT Army and the Red Fleet.

Except the first one wasn't the word of the MT Army, rather proof that TWC along with a bunch of fash sympathisers raided an innocent region, but ok.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=35729999 <- Morrighan is a known Nazi and fascist and racist etc

I assume you have some incontrovertible proof that Morrighan is an actual Nazi and racist other than the fact they reside in a region that happens to have embassies with fascist regions? I have gone through their post history and they seem to be a role player, not a game player, and I certainly didn't see any racist, homophobic, etc... posts there.

You so seem to like like to throw around some pretty serious OOC accusations, without providing any sort of evidence to back them up. Cormac at least had the goods. All you have is communist propaganda. Either try harder, or stop embarrassing yourself.

[Warzone Codger]

I'm really struggling to see the argument against here? (outside of the usual raider bloc antagonism)

Keeping it as a dead, inaccessible raider trophy is somehow better than giving it the chance of becoming a home for nations with a connection to the real life nation at some point in the future?

If it was a dead project that only had meaning for the previous natives that had long since abandoned it then I would understand. But that isn't the case here.

I'd think it's supposed to be the other way around: the author is supposed to come up with good arguments to support their proposals.

In this case, it looks like there's no native support, no native community in place, and it looks like there were never even that many nations in the region. The main arguments seem to be:

• Raider bad
• The region is named after a real life location

I can see why you'd be struggling here, since these are the usual reasons pushed to support these kinds of proposals. But I'd usually expect defenders to at least try to clothe these arguments in some kind of respectability to make it seem like it's not just a naked, petty power play aimed at denying raiders a "win." That way, they can at least pretend to be advancing something that's in the World Assembly's interest, rather than just advancing the interests of defenders at large. This proposal doesn't even do that.

"The region is named after a real life location" and real life locations inherently get people's interest and therefore always has a 'potential' for a community, compared to a generic name so it outweighs being made a raider trophy that's locked away forever is the argument. Raider bad also as a point, theoretically a liberation if people don't believe it'll become a trophy. That the community hasn't happened yet is a strike against the argument, but that's what the vote the is about, whether you are bright and hopeful believer of potential realising someday vs a cynical grouch.

(The countrer strike is who wants to make a community in a founderless region? In an ideal world it would be refounded by a "trustworthy caretaker" (lol) and people encouraged to create a community to eventually cede control to. That'll maximise 'potential' But the potential of a liberated bleh is still better than trophy.)

If is passes, it means the above argument is accepted by the NS Community and then by definition, the author has provided a good argument. In fact the issue with this proposal is that it is not moralist and emotionally evokive enough

Personally, I see the point. I have built (and destroyed, but that's cause Codger is a terrible founder) Eastern Europe twice and it is probably easier to recruit and attract players to "Eastern Europe" than some less known name. Obviously you still need to put effort, but it's a bonus.

[Daytime to Night]

In this case, it looks like there's no native support, no native community in place, and it looks like there were never even that many nations in the region. The main arguments seem to be:

• Raider bad
• The region is named after a real life location

No, the main argument is that its been locked and this denies any former or future community the chance to build more of a region there. The real life name of the region is significant for the reasons already stated that you've actively tried to ignore.

No-one has has said raider bad, raiders are just looking bad by trying to drag this through the mud for no good reason. Weirdly I thought the raider community would be more concerned with Alpha Wolf hijacking the Hydra name to poach the people that Mcmannia recruited but they dgaf. Raider unity is looking awfully shallow these days.

(The countrer strike is who wants to make a community in a founderless region?

Regions with real life names have actually be shown to be more resilient as founderless regions than other communities. Canada and Portugal are especially stable founderless regions, and strong communities have been able to easily develop in regions like Phillipines, Belgium and Japan.

[Spode Humbled Minions]

Except the first one wasn't the word of the MT Army, rather proof that TWC along with a bunch of fash sympathisers raided an innocent region, but ok.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=35729999 <- Morrighan is a known Nazi and fascist and racist etc

I assume you have some incontrovertible proof that Morrighan is an actual Nazi and racist other than the fact they reside in a region that happens to have embassies with fascist regions? I have gone through their post history and they seem to be a role player, not a game player, and I certainly didn't see any racist, homophobic, etc... posts there.

You so seem to like like to throw around some pretty serious OOC accusations, without providing any sort of evidence to back them up. Cormac at least had the goods. All you have is communist propaganda. Either try harder, or stop embarrassing yourself.

Morrighan is owner of National Socialist Ministries, a region that holds embassies with known cesspits of antisemitism (such as Farkasfalka and United Fascist Workers' Association), if that's not what you're looking for, they also have an embassy with the White Genocide Memorial. Morrighan has a 'sermon' (dispatch) that cites The International Jew, as a source to prove that modern Jews do not have a legitimate biblical claim to the Israel area. Follow the National Socialist Ministries' master dispatch and you'll find fun quotes from our boi, Adolf Hitler, neonazi symbols (and no, I'm not saying 'oh the iron cross is neonazi' even though it has been appropriated by neonazis more than a few times, I'm specifically referring to the black sun, a symbol that comes straight from a SS owned castle).

To say that Morrighan is a Nazi incontrovertibly might be a bit much, but other words and phrases, such as "probably", or "maybe not but man that's a lot of nazi sounding stuff there", might be more appropriate.

---

But that's not really relevant to whether or not The Wolf Clan is fascist, because the collaboration between TWC and Morrighan is now solidly in the past (Morrighan's main region is marked as second highest in The Wolf Clan's Black Book, just one spot below Nazi Europa).

So, in conclusion, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I guess. I mean, it would be cool if a region's namespace got opened up for something more cool than "Please join us in becoming a noted place in Nationstates.", but maybe that could be done by people who want to run a new region talking to the current owners?

[Honeydewistania]

Except the first one wasn't the word of the MT Army, rather proof that TWC along with a bunch of fash sympathisers raided an innocent region, but ok.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=35729999 <- Morrighan is a known Nazi and fascist and racist etc

I assume you have some incontrovertible proof that Morrighan is an actual Nazi and racist other than the fact they reside in a region that happens to have embassies with fascist regions? I have gone through their post history and they seem to be a role player, not a game player, and I certainly didn't see any racist, homophobic, etc... posts there.

You so seem to like like to throw around some pretty serious OOC accusations, without providing any sort of evidence to back them up. Cormac at least had the goods. All you have is communist propaganda. Either try harder, or stop embarrassing yourself.

Adding on to what Spode Humble Minions commented, Morrighan has said some pretty horrible stuff on discord that I’m not sure if I’m allowed to share here without getting a warning for trolling. I apologise for assuming you knew who Morrighan was, but being a founder of a region named after National Socialism is evidence that they support Nazism, so there’s your proof

[Twobagger]

In this case, it looks like there's no native support, no native community in place, and it looks like there were never even that many nations in the region. The main arguments seem to be:

• Raider bad
• The region is named after a real life location

No, the main argument is that its been locked and this denies any former or future community the chance to build more of a region there. The real life name of the region is significant for the reasons already stated that you've actively tried to ignore.

I haven't been ignoring the point you've tried to make regarding the real life name of the region and how it might attract a native community. It's just been refuted in several posts, including this one:

Out of the 28 posts on Syria’s RMB within the last 2 years, 15 were made by the current delegate, 2 by raider puppets, 6 by Smash Sans (who seems to be a defender puppet), and 5 by embassy partners or a soldier from one of the embassies. There is no one actually in Syria that cared enough to make it live. This seems a lot like defenders lost and are now trying to use the SC to cover up their defeat. There is no native community to speak of left to liberate, and there is no one who cares enough to set one up.

It is interesting to see the narrative shift from “we need to protect the community” to “it’s a real-life place” when confronted with a complete lack of evidence for the former’s existence. Whether it serves as a trophy of Hydra Main Command or an equally dead puppet storage that serves no purpose is irrelevant - in both cases, the region is dead and generally purposeless, and should not be the concern of the Security Council.

Frankly, I assumed that if you had a good response to this point, you'd have given it by now.

[Kuriko]

Let me make this clear, the main point of this liberation is not raider bad although IC what raiders do is bad. That's not what this liberation is about. This liberation is about allowing the remaining natives to remain peacefully in their home region, as well as keeping a region named after a real life nation from becoming an empty raider trophy.

Twobagger, anyone who knows me and my work knows I'm not one to mince words in an SC liberation. This isn't mainly about anti-fascism, so I'm not trying to push that narrative extra hard. Alpha Wolf's identity didn't come up until just before submission, which is why I subtly changed the draft to include his name.

Edit: And, as pointed out, if it's liberated and not allowed to become a raider trophy it has the chance of growing a generic native community.

OOC: I feel like 10k Islands is just starting to use their WA influence to throw around petty liberations on regions no one cares about by this point

Excuse me? This is extremely rude and nothing we would ever do. Or else you'd be seeing many more resolutions.

[WayNeacTia]

but being a founder of a region named after National Socialism is evidence that they support Nazi

No it's fucking not and you know it. How many national socialist regions has the MT Army refounded? Obviously they support national socialism as well? As for shit on Discord? It's just that, shit. You show me undeniable proof they actually support, or are in fact a real nazi and I may start taking you seriously.

[Honeydewistania]

but being a founder of a region named after National Socialism is evidence that they support Nazi

No it's fucking not and you know it. How many national socialist regions has the MT Army refounded? Obviously they support national socialism as well? As for shit on Discord? It's just that, shit. You show me undeniable proof they actually support, or are in fact a real nazi and I may start taking you seriously.

Nice strawman, unless you really are clueless enough to not know the difference between a captured Nazi territory and a region that has 'National Socialist Ministries is dedicated to the worldview of National Socialism' on the WFE.

[WayNeacTia]

No it's fucking not and you know it. How many national socialist regions has the MT Army refounded? Obviously they support national socialism as well? As for shit on Discord? It's just that, shit. You show me undeniable proof they actually support, or are in fact a real nazi and I may start taking you seriously.

Nice strawman, unless you really are clueless enough to not know the difference between a captured Nazi territory and a region that has 'National Socialist Ministries is dedicated to the worldview of National Socialism' on the WFE.

Still doesn't make them a nazi.

[North American Imperial State]

IC: Well this ambassador will not be supporting this. *walks out shaking head*

OOC: Am sorry but I still dont think there is enough substance to support this.
Fully against.

[Honeydewistania]

IC: Well this ambassador will not be supporting this. *walks out shaking head*

OOC: Am sorry but I still dont think there is enough substance to support this.
Fully against.

Substance of the proposal? Liberations don't have to touch the word count. I think that: 'region getting raided, we should stop that' is good enough

[WayNeacTia]

IC: Well this ambassador will not be supporting this. *walks out shaking head*

OOC: Am sorry but I still dont think there is enough substance to support this.
Fully against.

Substance of the proposal? Liberations don't have to touch the word count. I think that: 'region getting raided, we should stop that' is good enough

Except the region hasn't been raided. Embassies have not been destroyed, and natives (not that they actually exist) haven't been banjected. Hell even the WFE hasn't been tagged. When the region is actually in danger, then this may actually be relevant. But until then, please do keep up the hysterics. It is nothing if not amusing.

[J o J]

We really do need a popcorn vendor in here. This is quite the show.

[Kuriko]

Substance of the proposal? Liberations don't have to touch the word count. I think that: 'region getting raided, we should stop that' is good enough

Except the region hasn't been raided. Embassies have not been destroyed, and natives (not that they actually exist) haven't been banjected. Hell even the WFE hasn't been tagged. When the region is actually in danger, then this may actually be relevant. But until then, please do keep up the hysterics. It is nothing if not amusing.

The region has been raided, otherwise a raider organization wouldn't have moved their military into it. It's also listed in their operations dispatch, which is their list of raided regions. In an undercover operation most of the time they won't change the WFE at all in order to maintain the fact that they aren't who they are, and the same could be said for embassy closures. Yet, they're opening an embassy with Hydra Main Command which is what occupiers do. As for natives being banjected, they wasted more than half of their influence on the password so they haven't started kicking them yet due to influence problems.

[Honeydewistania]

Except the region hasn't been raided. Embassies have not been destroyed, and natives (not that they actually exist) haven't been banjected. Hell even the WFE hasn't been tagged. When the region is actually in danger, then this may actually be relevant. But until then, please do keep up the hysterics. It is nothing if not amusing.

The region has been raided, otherwise a raider organization wouldn't have moved their military into it. It's also listed in their operations dispatch, which is their list of raided regions. In an undercover operation most of the time they won't change the WFE at all in order to maintain the fact that they aren't who they are, and the same could be said for embassy closures. Yet, they're opening an embassy with Hydra Main Command which is what occupiers do. As for natives being banjected, they wasted more than half of their influence on the password so they haven't started kicking them yet due to influence problems.

Also, all the embassies before the password were established some time after Airport Manager Services became delegate, according to the regional history

[WayNeacTia]

The region has been raided, otherwise a raider organization wouldn't have moved their military into it. It's also listed in their operations dispatch, which is their list of raided regions. In an undercover operation most of the time they won't change the WFE at all in order to maintain the fact that they aren't who they are, and the same could be said for embassy closures. Yet, they're opening an embassy with Hydra Main Command which is what occupiers do. As for natives being banjected, they wasted more than half of their influence on the password so they haven't started kicking them yet due to influence problems.

Also, all the embassies before the password were established some time after Airport Manager Services became delegate, according to the regional history

Oh noes! A delegate actually tried to spur activity in a region by forming embassies. We must liberate it at all costs.

In an undercover operation most of the time they won't change the WFE at all in order to maintain the fact that they aren't who they are, and the same could be said for embassy closures.

I am curious.... Do you actually possess the ability to keep bullshit straight, or do you make it up as you go? So you claim it is an undercover operation, yet it is listed in their operations dispatch. So they announced their undercover operation to the rest of the world? What would they lose by tagging the WFE then? Or closing embassies? First the region was being raided. Next it had no natives, but by some miracle there are actually natives, that you did not take the time to consult with. Next it is in danger of becoming a raider trophy. Then it is in danger from fascists, and blacklisted players. Now it is actually an undercover operation all along, except their are zero signs the region is being raided, except for a single embassy being constructed. But somehow you have managed to figure this all out by yourself?

How about you come clean. You are bored and decided to write a liberation and we called on it, so now excuses need to be made to justify yourself. is this all in hopes you can look like a hero so your commendation (which you didn't want in the first place) will pass?

[Kuriko]

Also, all the embassies before the password were established some time after Airport Manager Services became delegate, according to the regional history

Oh noes! A delegate actually tried to spur activity in a region by forming embassies. We must liberate it at all costs.

In an undercover operation most of the time they won't change the WFE at all in order to maintain the fact that they aren't who they are, and the same could be said for embassy closures.

I am curious.... Do you actually possess the ability to keep bullshit straight, or do you make it up as you go? So you claim it is an undercover operation, yet it is listed in their operations dispatch. So they announced their undercover operation to the rest of the world? What would they lose by tagging the WFE then? Or closing embassies? First the region was being raided. Next it had no natives, but by some miracle there are actually natives, that you did not take the time to consult with. Next it is in danger of becoming a raider trophy. Then it is in danger from fascists, and blacklisted players. Now it is actually an undercover operation all along, except their are zero signs the region is being raided, except for a single embassy being constructed. But somehow you have managed to figure this all out by yourself?

How about you come clean. You are bored and decided to write a liberation and we called on it, so now excuses need to be made to justify yourself. is this all in hopes you can look like a hero so your commendation (which you didn't want in the first place) will pass?

Can I have a tinfoil hat like yours? I've been pretty straight forward throughout this entire thread, so nice try on trying to spin what I say in your direction but it won't work. Everyone knows I'd much rather have a conventional liberation rather than an SC liberation.