[PASSED] Commend the Red Fleet

[Honeydewistania]

Note: I submitted for a legality check with regards to the observing clause (especially the part where it mentioned GGR). I am not campaigning for this, it’s just a legality check, and it’s not the final things.

[Sanghyeok]

In favor. Anti-Fascist action is something everyone should support.

[Honeydewistania]

Sedge marked the proposal legal, which means the mention of GGR is legal also. I’ll unsubmit now

[Praeceps]

Sedge marked the proposal legal, which means the mention of GGR is legal also. I’ll unsubmit now

Not to be pedantic but... Doesn't that just mean that Sedge finds that the mention of GGR is legal (or perhaps was unaware of the potential legality issue)—it is possible that other SC mods find the mention illegal.

[Honeydewistania]

Sedge marked the proposal legal, which means the mention of GGR is legal also. I’ll unsubmit now

Not to be pedantic but... Doesn't that just mean that Sedge finds that the mention of GGR is legal (or perhaps was unaware of the potential legality issue)—it is possible that other SC mods find the mention illegal.

Well, drat.

[Dr ac]

I don't see why this can't or shouldn't be passed ahead of any potential repeal. No repeal effort against SC #184 has been successful to date, and this doesn't duplicate the existing Commend in any way except for the article about the GGR raid and the mention of Leninist Russia, both of which I think can be taken out.

In place of LR, you might mention TRF's work in coming to the aid of Social Liberal Union when it was raided by The Invaders and USSD in 2016.

I better stop there, before someone accuses me of writing this one, too.

Nice try to get two commendations

considering the response to commend MT it'''s understandable

[Sedgistan]

Sedge marked the proposal legal, which means the mention of GGR is legal also. I’ll unsubmit now

Not to be pedantic but... Doesn't that just mean that Sedge finds that the mention of GGR is legal (or perhaps was unaware of the potential legality issue)—it is possible that other SC mods find the mention illegal.

The issue is the duplication of the current Commendation? I hadn't considered that, but I think it's so minor and that the circumstances have changed enough (original Commendation talks about an ongoing operation, this proposal talks about the complete destruction of the region / being placed under control of anti-fascist forces) that it's not an issue.

[Honeydewistania]

Taking note of the current repeal attempt reaching quorum, I have made minor edits and will submit next week (or earlier)

[Comfed]

OOC: Raiders do not deserve commendations at all.

OOC: not even antifa raiders?

[Fauxia]

Can we have quotations around Liberate the NSIA?

[Western Mai Puva]

Ooc: You guys bully people for ideological crusades you would decry if targeted at yourselves, and impose yourselves not only on your stated enemy but also other independent leftist regions who are unfortunate enough to disagree with your ideological demagoguery. Some people seeing whats going on in the world might want relief from this Manichaean crap. No one should commend you for gaslighting people or regions.

[Fauxia]

Perhaps this is a small nitpick with all things considered, but I believe the Trump Warriors was raided due to the founder being spammy, not really because it was a fascist hideout.

Regardless, right now the language is over-the-top. Could you tone it down? I can’t vote for it purely on linguistic grounds at the moment.

[Honeydewistania]

Perhaps this is a small nitpick with all things considered, but I believe the Trump Warriors was raided due to the founder being spammy, not really because it was a fascist hideout.

Regardless, right now the language is over-the-top. Could you tone it down? I can’t vote for it purely on linguistic grounds at the moment.

Wdym over the top? Also The Trump Warriors were fascist.

[SherpDaWerp]

Perhaps this is a small nitpick with all things considered, but I believe the Trump Warriors was raided due to the founder being spammy, not really because it was a fascist hideout.

Regardless, right now the language is over-the-top. Could you tone it down? I can’t vote for it purely on linguistic grounds at the moment.

Wdym over the top?

Right now, the resolution reads like propaganda.

"completely destroyed"
"annihilated completely"
"extolling... vital support"
"utter annihilation"
"absolute devastations"
"smashing the dreams of pathetic fascist and fascist apologist regions and nations"

It's good that you've used varied language instead of just "they raided x, they raided y, and they raided z", but "utter annihilation" is a bit much. Of these, the last one is definitely the worst offender - it's basically just wide-scale flaming. Blatant insults are not the way to go about writing a C/C, no matter whether the group you're insulting deserves it or not.

[Fauxia]

Although maybe the language is just an extension of regular antifa policy. After all, Caelapes’ commendation of the MT Army did not just commend it, it vehemently commended it.

Also The Trump Warriors were fascist.

Curious whether you have any evidence of that? Telegram me so we don’t get off track, since I’m about the only person to care.

[WayNeacTia]

Also The Trump Warriors were fascist.

That;s an awful bold statement to be making. I am sure you have some evidence to back up this claim?

[Alcala-Cordel]

In favor. Anti-Fascist action is something everyone should support.

Seconded, TRF deserves this for the service they've done.

[Silver Commonwealth]

OOC: In favor of this resolution. If it gets to voting, I will vote for it with my WA nation.

[West Leas Oros 2]

OOC: Raiders do not deserve commendations at all.

OOC: not even antifa raiders?

OOC: I'd argue that ideologically motivated commendations are dangerous waters. The last thing I want is the SC to become an ideological paramilitary. Fighting fascism is all well and good, but how far is too far? How much collateral damage can be accepted? Where does it stop being acceptable to raid ideological enemies? The TRF shouldn't be immune to criticism because we agree with them.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Ooc: You guys bully people for ideological crusades you would decry if targeted at yourselves, and impose yourselves not only on your stated enemy but also other independent leftist regions who are unfortunate enough to disagree with your ideological demagoguery. Some people seeing whats going on in the world might want relief from this Manichaean crap. No one should commend you for gaslighting people or regions.

OOC: This may be a bad place to be promoting, but I happen to have founded a region that was in part founded in opposition to ideological demagoguery and designed to be a home for independent left-wing nations who disliked the major leftist empires on NS. So ultimately, let TRF have it's commendation. Other leftists can choose not to associate with them, so no harm in commending them for the good, while acknowledging the bad.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Attacking your enemies and and defending your allies isn't commendable. It's expected of any military organisation.

Well some of the regions defended weren't exactly allies of the Red FLeet, more like random leftist regions targeted by Nazis I suppose. I should make that clear

Did those regions want TRF's help? Or did TRF volunteer themselves? I'm not one to refuse support, but were the non-aligned leftists okay with it?

[Drop Your Pants]

West Leas Oros 2, this forum has this wonderful option called and "edit" function. Much better than triple posting.

Just a minor nitpick. Democratic Socialist Alliance was listed in the liberations/perseverations section but looking at the regional history it was liberated by defenders then TRF took over. Then again after the founder CTE again. Doesn't exactly scream amazing abilities.

[The Reformed American Republic]

In favor. Anti-Fascist action is something everyone should support.

It's communist aggression cloaked under a good cause. The Red Fleet fights for communism and the fighting of fascists is just a means of achieving that. Nobody thinks of what happens when there are no longer any actual fascists to fight.

[Spode Humbled Minions]

In favor. Anti-Fascist action is something everyone should support.

It's communist aggression cloaked under a good cause. The Red Fleet fights for communism and the fighting of fascists is just a means of achieving that. Nobody thinks of what happens when there are no longer any actual fascists to fight.

It's been 18 years. I'd love for there to be no more fascists, Nazis, and those of their ilk on this site entirely, but that's just not happening.

In terms of this bill, there is one thing that I would like to address, and that's that bringing up REATO is an odd choice. I'm not well versed in the history involved here, but on first inspection, REACTO seems to have been a relatively benign organization, and the conflict mainly over gameplay related issues (raids against communist and socialist regions).

As brought up by Wayneactia, apparently in the course of the proceedings between The Red Fleet and REATO, some participants within The Red Fleet misbehaved in such manner as to become goosed upon. Seeing as the repeal of the currently standing commendation is in part built on the grounds of toxicity within the old organization, it seems inappropriate to celebrate an instance of toxicity the commendation's replacement.

All that said, I joined NationStates in 2016, and spent that year derping around and not actually paying much mind to the intricacies of interregional politics. These were the impressions I got by using Google for 15 minutes and not through deep political analysis.

[Honeydewistania]

It's communist aggression cloaked under a good cause. The Red Fleet fights for communism and the fighting of fascists is just a means of achieving that. Nobody thinks of what happens when there are no longer any actual fascists to fight.

It's been 18 years. I'd love for there to be no more fascists, Nazis, and those of their ilk on this site entirely, but that's just not happening.

In terms of this bill, there is one thing that I would like to address, and that's that bringing up REATO is an odd choice. I'm not well versed in the history involved here, but on first inspection, REACTO seems to have been a relatively benign organization, and the conflict mainly over gameplay related issues (raids against communist and socialist regions).

As brought up by Wayneactia, apparently in the course of the proceedings between The Red Fleet and REATO, some participants within The Red Fleet misbehaved in such manner as to become goosed upon. Seeing as the repeal of the currently standing commendation is in part built on the grounds of toxicity within the old organization, it seems inappropriate to celebrate an instance of toxicity the commendation's replacement.

All that said, I joined NationStates in 2016, and spent that year derping around and not actually paying much mind to the intricacies of interregional politics. These were the impressions I got by using Google for 15 minutes and not through deep political analysis.

REATO aggressively raided and refounded CAPS, and did it with no remorse. They were not benign.

In favor. Anti-Fascist action is something everyone should support.

It's communist aggression cloaked under a good cause. The Red Fleet fights for communism and the fighting of fascists is just a means of achieving that. Nobody thinks of what happens when there are no longer any actual fascists to fight.

Not all TRFers are tankies, so that’s inaccurate.


I’ve made a few edits, such as toning down the language, and removing DSA and Trump Warriors. (No, it wasn’t because they were fascist or not fascist, but rather because I felt they were not noteworthy. Anyone who wants to see evidence of them being fascist/fascist sympathiser telegram me)