Kuriko wrote:Jakker wrote:That was said by Numero several days after the fact. Can't blame people for having a hard time believing that in full for the lack of transparency then. And yes, there is still some connections and my point from the beginning is that there is clear contrast of how that situation was handled and how this one is being handled; starting with the move to have the native authoring. I think it is nice to see you all learning from the Asia situation.
Jakker, this is nothijg new in how defenders operate and work with natives. We worked with the Asia natives and had permission beforehand, so stop trying to peddle TBH's lies and misinformation and save us all a lot of pointless bickering.
Firstly, I'd like to point out again that I am but one bird trying to make it in this thing we call NationStates. I am just calling it as I see it. Secondly, I am a little confused how anything I have said can be regarded as lies and misinformation. Let's recap:
Jakker wrote:It does feel like a change of pace to see defenders working alongside natives publicly as opposed to the typical modern tactics of primarily doing something to be against raiders without actually engaging with the natives.
I'd like to first draw your attention to my first post, specifically to the word "publicly". Let me call in my friend, LeVar Burton, to help break this down since you all don't seem to listen to me well...
Hi! LeVar Burton, here. The main definition of this word is, "so as to be seen by other people; in public." So Jakker was pointing out that in public spaces like the forum, defenders do not often do a great job of showcasing engagement with natives. Instead, the goals of several actions by them like posts, including from yourself, is more geared towards being against raiders. Jakker was kind enough to go into more detail with his next post:
Jakker wrote:My point was that it seems to happen less often these days and the general focus has turn more so to being against raiders. Most recent example was the liberation attempt of Asia without asking the natives first.
This movement towards anti-raiding practices has existed to some degree for a time (from what Jakker tells me!). Our neighborhood baby shark, Mall, asked the
innocent question of whether natives were consulted about this attempt like what is common SC practice. One that if anyone would be so conscious of not only upholding, but actively and explicitly communicating, it would be the Secretary-General.
And yet, rather than upholding that standard, you were doing the opposite. You stated that you had
posted the Liberation attempt before speaking with natives.
So now, let's take a minute to return to our word of the day, which is "publicly." I am going to need everyone to put on their thinking caps!
Now maybe defenders are just bad at communicating and were not being transparent about their engagement with the natives. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt, so we can only go off of what was said publicly. One would think that if natives were involved and Kuriko just misspoke, she would have noted that once prompted, but instead the focus was that raiders are bad for thinking that defenders do not care about what natives think AND
they have not heard back from the natives yet.
It was finally revealed publicly that the natives gave their approval for the liberation attempt
over ten hours after the initial OP.
As Kuriko pointed out in an earlier post in this thread, Numero mentioned that he apparently had been in contact with the natives for
weeks. I'm just an outsider in all of this, but why would Numero not say that earlier? He even posted in that thread shortly after the question was raised and Kuriko mentioned that the natives were telegrammed, so public transparency seems a little off to me!
Numero then expanded further to say that there seems to have been miscommunication between him and Kuriko.
He had been engaging with the natives, but Kuriko was not. This then leads into Jakker's most recent
post here.So now I will bring a final explanation of this and hope you can understand!
Jakker was articulating that there was a difference in the public communication/transparency of the messaging between defenders and natives, specifically in the two threads. I am no expert here, but if one is writing a proposal that will significantly impact a region, it is important to be clear with how involved natives are!
Liberate Asia Thread: No mention of natives being involved in the OP/proposal, proposal written by Kuriko who personally had done so without any knowledge of or engagement with the natives, no communication from Numero to Kuriko or to the public that natives had been involved until later, and it was not super clear that the natives even wanted a Liberation but rather that they were trusting the defenders to do what is best. Trust is so important! And with trust comes responsibility.
Repeal Liberate Iran: Long-standing native is the author of the proposal, there were clear discussions with them to work on moving towards repealing this
before them posting, and they were the ones that actively chose this option. These actions are much more focused on the natives and publicly (our word!) showcased that. Seems like a clear difference to me!
In conclusion, there is nothing that Jakker said that can be interpreted as lies. If you want to question his intention or say that he is trying to turn something into propaganda, go for it! But it is important to be willing to accept criticism and learn from one's mistakes. As Jakker noted, it does seem like defenders learned from the previous thread involving a Liberation and you know how much I love learning!
Anyways, that is it for me, LeVar Burton. I'll see you next time.
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:26 pm
