[PASSED] Commend Crushing Our Enemies

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

but anyone who raids, and basks in the glory of destroying innocent regions, should not be commended.

So, if you were a raider, but at the same time you helped form TNP the way it was today, you shouldn't be commended for those actions because you're a raider doing something completely different and something that is not listed on the commendation?

Judge the nominee by their actions listed in the commendation. Not anything else; the proposal isn't about those things; they aren't relevant. COE shouldn't be commended for their raiding actions of course, and if they were in the proposal then of course you could argue against it.

I don't like raiding, but COE has some commendable actions. Therefore, they should be commended.

Excellent attitude. COE has done many commendable things in their time and Jakker has done a very good job in researching and describing them.

[Alexander the Magnus]

I get the logic of where you're coming from, Alexander. However, I don't exactly recall the time we've refounded a region. That I think and feel is the only truly destructive action a region can be hit with, is for its entire native population to be displaced and its region refounded to act as a trophy for the raider organization performing the act. Morality on this game itself is a tricky subject, especially for the Gameplay aspect of it. I can't change your morals or how you feel, but I personally feel the only way one could destroy a region such as that is a refounding.

What about banning all of the important leaders of a region, destroying the Factbook, and putting odd catchphrases in the new Factbook? It hurts region founders, and people who have built up the region to see it destroyed. A refounding, I agree, is the worst thing a raider can do, but I believe there are other ways to destroy a region.

but anyone who raids, and basks in the glory of destroying innocent regions, should not be commended.

So, if you were a raider, but at the same time you helped form TNP the way it was today, you shouldn't be commended for those actions because you're a raider doing something completely different and something that is not listed on the commendation?

Judge the nominee by their actions listed in the commendation. Not anything else; the proposal isn't about those things; they aren't relevant. COE shouldn't be commended for their raiding actions of course, and if they were in the proposal then of course you could argue against it.

I don't like raiding, but COE has some commendable actions. Therefore, they should be commended.

So, if they have some commendable actions then they should be commended? How about Stalin? (Again, not saying COE is like Stalin) He stopped Hitler from taking over the world, if he had not attacked Hitler, and instead provided him with troops, and fuel, Britain would have fallen, as well as the world. However, that does not mean we should ignore what else Stalin did in his reign. (Again, I am not saying CEO murdered thousands) Myt point is simply because you do some good actions does not mean you should be commended.

So, if you were a raider, but at the same time you helped form TNP the way it was today, you shouldn't be commended for those actions because you're a raider doing something completely different and something that is not listed on the commendation?

Judge the nominee by their actions listed in the commendation. Not anything else; the proposal isn't about those things; they aren't relevant. COE shouldn't be commended for their raiding actions of course, and if they were in the proposal then of course you could argue against it.

I don't like raiding, but COE has some commendable actions. Therefore, they should be commended.

This. 100% this The proposal does not exemplify, glorify or advocate raiding as an aspect of the game. It focuses purely on the nominee's actions for helping this site's communities grow.

EDIT: Exemplify spelling corrected.

I agree, it mentions none of the raids that COE has been a part of. However, he has been on raids, and helped the effectiveness of them increase. The problem with this proposal is that it does exactly that, "focuses purely on the nominee's actions for helping this site's communities grow." Also, which sites? The biggest raiding sites... Hmmm.

[Awesomeland012345]

So, if they have some commendable actions then they should be commended? How about Stalin? (Again, not saying COE is like Stalin) He stopped Hitler from taking over the world, if he had not attacked Hitler, and instead provided him with troops, and fuel, Britain would have fallen, as well as the world. However, that does not mean we should ignore what else Stalin did in his reign. (Again, I am not saying CEO murdered thousands) Myt point is simply because you do some good actions does not mean you should be commended.

COE did some great things that helped TNP. They weren't just a few small commendable actions. There were many, large, commendable actions. If he had many, large condemnable actions too, then COE should be condemned for those actions.

[World Assembly Nation 665]

-snip-.

What about banning all of the important leaders of a region, destroying the Factbook, and putting odd catchphrases in the new Factbook? It hurts region founders, and people who have built up the region to see it destroyed. A refounding, I agree, is the worst thing a raider can do, but I believe there are other ways to destroy a region.



So, if they have some commendable actions then they should be commended? How about Stalin? (Again, not saying COE is like Stalin) He stopped Hitler from taking over the world, if he had not attacked Hitler, and instead provided him with troops, and fuel, Britain would have fallen, as well as the world. However, that does not mean we should ignore what else Stalin did in his reign. (Again, I am not saying CEO murdered thousands) Myt point is simply because you do some good actions does not mean you should be commended.

I agree, it mentions none of the raids that COE has been a part of. However, he has been on raids, and helped the effectiveness of them increase. The problem with this proposal is that it does exactly that, "focuses purely on the nominee's actions for helping this site's communities grow." Also, which sites? The biggest raiding sites... Hmmm.

To address your first point: People are entirely free to move back to their region if they so wish after occupations end. There is also no way for us to 'destroy' another person's factbook, as I believe they are cached somewhere and defenders can easily restore them. Also, odd catchphrases? Relevance/citation please?

On your second point: This seems to be the meat of your argument. Drawing comparisons like this is wild and unecessary, especially considering the people you keep naming. Stalin, Hitler and WW2 have no bearing on the proposal here and I find it silly you keep going back to this point.

And finally your third point: TNP is an independent group that is not exclusively a raider region. Not to mention, the fact of COE's actions changed the site's scene itself, and I imagine it would be extraordinarily different without what he did for TNP or his leadership post-Predator. The fact the nominee or nominees are raiders should not be grounds for automatic disqualification of a commendation proposal, it's silly and nonsensical if the proposal makes sense and doesn't actually even advocate or glorify raiding.

Edit: Butchered the quotes, fixed.

[Alexander the Magnus]

So, if they have some commendable actions then they should be commended? How about Stalin? (Again, not saying COE is like Stalin) He stopped Hitler from taking over the world, if he had not attacked Hitler, and instead provided him with troops, and fuel, Britain would have fallen, as well as the world. However, that does not mean we should ignore what else Stalin did in his reign. (Again, I am not saying CEO murdered thousands) Myt point is simply because you do some good actions does not mean you should be commended.

COE did some great things that helped TNP. They weren't just a few small commendable actions. There were many, large, commendable actions. If he had many, large condemnable actions too, then COE should be condemned for those actions.

I believe that he has just that, and increasing the administrative ability of the Black Hawks is one of those. Increasing raids, and the probability of those succeeding is virtually the same as leading those raids. TNP is a special case, as it is soo large, and does many things, but I believe, that helping TNP is also not a commendable action, especially as TNP army is part of TNP.

To address your first point: People are entirely free to move back to their region if they so wish after occupations end. There is also no way for us to 'destroy' another person's factbook, as I believe they are cached somewhere and defenders can easily restore them. Also, odd catchphrases? Relevance/citation please?

On your second point: This seems to be the meat of your argument. Drawing comparisons like this is wild and unecessary, especially considering the people you keep naming. Stalin, Hitler and WW2 have no bearing on the proposal here and I find it silly you keep going back to this point.

And finally your third point: TNP is an independent group that is not exclusively a raider region. Not to mention, the fact of COE's actions changed the site's scene itself, and I imagine it would be extraordinarily different without what he did for TNP or his leadership post-Predator. The fact the nominee or nominees are raiders should not be grounds for automatic disqualification of a commendation proposal, it's silly and nonsensical if the proposal makes sense and doesn't actually even advocate or glorify raiding.

Edit: Butchered the quotes, fixed.

First: Many raids end with the region password, and controlled by a placement puppet. I meant the region Factbook, where you describe your region, and what you can do there. Yes, you can not destroy the Factbooks that are pinned to the region, but you do destroy the region Factbook. The odd catchphrase is not relevant, I just threw it in there because it is something that TBH does to the region Factbook.

Second: Comparisons show where I am coming from, and the absurdity of commending someone for "administrative contributions". If you add contributions to a region, movement, or nation, good, or bad, that is not a commendable action. For instance, if my region went around trying to get ourselves commended, we would be laughed at, and the next day condemned. I find it ridiculous that you dont see the point, and that you dont understand analogies.

Third: True, it is not primarily a raider region, but it is a core aspect of the region, and, due to sheer numbers, is one of the largest raider communities. It is not silly, because a commendation is saying this nation is a great nation, so great that it needs to be recognized. This proposal is not saying those actions are great, but this nation is great, because of those actions. I am not saying that this is a nonsensical proposal, nor do I think it glorifies raiding, but it does glorify a raider, and that is what I oppose.

[World Assembly Nation 665]

COE did some great things that helped TNP. They weren't just a few small commendable actions. There were many, large, commendable actions. If he had many, large condemnable actions too, then COE should be condemned for those actions.

I believe that he has just that, and increasing the administrative ability of the Black Hawks is one of those. Increasing raids, and the probability of those succeeding is virtually the same as leading those raids. TNP is a special case, as it is soo large, and does many things, but I believe, that helping TNP is also not a commendable action, especially as TNP army is part of TNP.

To address your first point: People are entirely free to move back to their region if they so wish after occupations end. There is also no way for us to 'destroy' another person's factbook, as I believe they are cached somewhere and defenders can easily restore them. Also, odd catchphrases? Relevance/citation please?

On your second point: This seems to be the meat of your argument. Drawing comparisons like this is wild and unecessary, especially considering the people you keep naming. Stalin, Hitler and WW2 have no bearing on the proposal here and I find it silly you keep going back to this point.

And finally your third point: TNP is an independent group that is not exclusively a raider region. Not to mention, the fact of COE's actions changed the site's scene itself, and I imagine it would be extraordinarily different without what he did for TNP or his leadership post-Predator. The fact the nominee or nominees are raiders should not be grounds for automatic disqualification of a commendation proposal, it's silly and nonsensical if the proposal makes sense and doesn't actually even advocate or glorify raiding.

Edit: Butchered the quotes, fixed.

First: Many raids end with the region password, and controlled by a placement puppet. I meant the region Factbook, where you describe your region, and what you can do there. Yes, you can not destroy the Factbooks that are pinned to the region, but you do destroy the region Factbook. The odd catchphrase is not relevant, I just threw it in there because it is something that TBH does to the region Factbook.

Second: Comparisons show where I am coming from, and the absurdity of commending someone for "administrative contributions". If you add contributions to a region, movement, or nation, good, or bad, that is not a commendable action. For instance, if my region went around trying to get ourselves commended, we would be laughed at, and the next day condemned. I find it ridiculous that you dont see the point, and that you dont understand analogies.

Third: True, it is not primarily a raider region, but it is a core aspect of the region, and, due to sheer numbers, is one of the largest raider communities. It is not silly, because a commendation is saying this nation is a great nation, so great that it needs to be recognized. This proposal is not saying those actions are great, but this nation is great, because of those actions. I am not saying that this is a nonsensical proposal, nor do I think it glorifies raiding, but it does glorify a raider, and that is what I oppose.

Pretty sure WFEs can be restored thanks to some handy-dandy sites.

No, your comparisons are honestly disrespectful to those who gave their lives or more in WW2. There are better ways to argue your point than to go to that route, so respectfully refrain. CCD would be shot down for other reasons that're not relevant to this proposal, and thus have no bearing on why it should pass or not.

The proposal is quite specifically saying these actions are great and that COE should be commended for them. It does not glorify his position as a raider, and infact does not glorify raiding at all.

[Awesomeland012345]

First: Many raids end with the region password, and controlled by a placement puppet. I meant the region Factbook, where you describe your region, and what you can do there. Yes, you can not destroy the Factbooks that are pinned to the region, but you do destroy the region Factbook. The odd catchphrase is not relevant, I just threw it in there because it is something that TBH does to the region Factbook.

the WFE? you can restore those.
http://udl.taijitu.org/wfe_index/
https://www.bowzin.com/wfe_archive

[Kromerov]

I cannot in good faith commend a raider nation whose region they associate with, the Black Hawks, has helped destroy countless regions across nationstates. The Blackhawks have been responsible for the destruction of countless regions, resulting in shock being dismayed at them both. Why should a nation which shares their icons be removed from that region and not face the same judgement laid upon them?

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

I cannot in good faith commend a raider nation whose region they associate with, the Black Hawks, has helped destroy countless regions across nationstates. The Blackhawks have been responsible for the destruction of countless regions, resulting in shock being dismayed at them both. Why should a nation which shares their icons be removed from that region and not face the same judgement laid upon them?

I think Jakker has explained that quite well, if you actually read the resolution. Or did you just go "Raider" and close your mind?

[Kleptocratic Maniacs]

It's not very professional to destroy an innocent community for no reason, and yes I'm talking about Asia. No support as long as you continue to act like helping a raider region that destroys innocent communities for fun is a commendable act. Like I said in the last attempt.

The Black Hawks are fully professional (apart from a certain few that are easily removed). Does anybody seriously believe that TBH are, in fact, a bunch of slack amateurs who set forty-minute triggers, occasionally set off from Artificial Space Station and can hardly tell apart a defender target from a raider point?

FULL SUPPORT

I believe The Black Hawks are professional. Professional bullies. I don’t understand how anyone with a sliver of a conscience could vote for this resolution, particularly considering the fact that this is essentially a region commending itself for doing something terrible, which is exactly what got the CCD so much backlash. How is this any different, aside from the fact that the deeds of the Black Hawks affect real people’s experiences and enjoyment of NationStates, which actually makes it worse?

[World Assembly Nation 665]

The Black Hawks are fully professional (apart from a certain few that are easily removed). Does anybody seriously believe that TBH are, in fact, a bunch of slack amateurs who set forty-minute triggers, occasionally set off from Artificial Space Station and can hardly tell apart a defender target from a raider point?

FULL SUPPORT

I believe The Black Hawks are professional. Professional bullies. I don’t understand how anyone with a sliver of a conscience could vote for this resolution, particularly considering the fact that this is essentially a region commending itself for doing something terrible, which is exactly what got the CCD so much backlash. How is this any different, aside from the fact that the deeds of the Black Hawks affect real people’s experiences and enjoyment of NationStates, which actually makes it worse?

I cannot in good faith commend a raider nation whose region they associate with, the Black Hawks, has helped destroy countless regions across nationstates. The Blackhawks have been responsible for the destruction of countless regions, resulting in shock being dismayed at them both. Why should a nation which shares their icons be removed from that region and not face the same judgement laid upon them?

I think Jakker has explained that quite well, if you actually read the resolution. Or did you just go "Raider" and close your mind?

[Dyllonia]

The Black Hawks are fully professional (apart from a certain few that are easily removed). Does anybody seriously believe that TBH are, in fact, a bunch of slack amateurs who set forty-minute triggers, occasionally set off from Artificial Space Station and can hardly tell apart a defender target from a raider point?

FULL SUPPORT

I believe The Black Hawks are professional. Professional bullies. I don’t understand how anyone with a sliver of a conscience could vote for this resolution, particularly considering the fact that this is essentially a region commending itself for doing something terrible, which is exactly what got the CCD so much backlash. How is this any different, aside from the fact that the deeds of the Black Hawks affect real people’s experiences and enjoyment of NationStates, which actually makes it worse?

Okay, so you don't like The Black Hawks. What about COE's deeds in The North Pacific? Do you think that all of his hard work and devotion in TNP should just be obsolete because he happens have involvement in a raider region?

[Devi]

First: Many raids end with the region password, and controlled by a placement puppet.

Out of curiosity, could you provide statistics on how frequently raids end with a cleared out region and imposed password, on average? And for good measure, how do those numbers line up with, say, TBH's raids alone over the past couple years?

Truth is, most raided regions don't get locked down, and those that do typically deserve it- by being obviously fascist or whatever else

[Flying Eagles]

We don't see how creating professionalism (i.e. improving efficacy) of raiders are a good thing, so we must vote against.

[World Assembly Nation 665]

We don't see how creating professionalism (i.e. improving efficacy) of raiders are a good thing, so we must vote against.

"We haven't read the proposal at all, and only see the word raider and thus he is automatically disqualified from any commendations because raiders are horrible people!"

[Atheris]

We don't see how creating professionalism (i.e. improving efficacy) of raiders are a good thing, so we must vote against.

"We haven't read the proposal at all, and only see the word raider and thus he is automatically disqualified from any commendations because raiders are horrible people!"

Unironically based.

[World Assembly Nation 665]

"We haven't read the proposal at all, and only see the word raider and thus he is automatically disqualified from any commendations because raiders are horrible people!"

This but unironically.

If you're implying raiders are, unironically horrible people who enjoy nothing but 'destroying regions,' I reccomend you hop into our Discord and talk to us for a bit. The view of 'raiders are horrid fascists' or 'horrible people omg' gets a bit stale after a while with largely no evidence to back it up, particularly when related to TBH.


Edit: Added a note.

[Atheris]

This but unironically.

If you're implying raiders are, unironically horrible people who enjoy nothing but 'destroying regions,' I reccomend you hop into our Discord and talk to us for a bit. The view of 'raiders are horrid fascists' or 'horrible people omg' gets a bit stale after a while with largely no evidence to back it up, particularly when related to TBH.


Edit: Added a note.

You say you don't enjoy destroying regions? You ruin the WFE, the flag, and evict natives. I've seen what you do first hand. If you're implying what raiders do is harmless, or just for fun, then take a good close look at your region and say that with a straight face. You're basically going into a house, getting everybody out of bed and getting them to the mailbox, and then setting the house on fire - and then, when they asked why you did that, you just say "lol just buy a new house".

[World Assembly Nation 665]

If you're implying raiders are, unironically horrible people who enjoy nothing but 'destroying regions,' I reccomend you hop into our Discord and talk to us for a bit. The view of 'raiders are horrid fascists' or 'horrible people omg' gets a bit stale after a while with largely no evidence to back it up, particularly when related to TBH.


Edit: Added a note.

You say you don't enjoy destroying regions? You ruin the WFE, the flag, and evict natives. I've seen what you do first hand. If you're implying what raiders do is harmless, or just for fun, then take a good close look at your region and say that with a straight face.

I'll readdress these points since you don't feel like scrolling up and reading what's been said to Alexander the Magnus.

The WFE is easily able to restored, and if you scroll up, you can find said links to do such, here:

First: Many raids end with the region password, and controlled by a placement puppet. I meant the region Factbook, where you describe your region, and what you can do there. Yes, you can not destroy the Factbooks that are pinned to the region, but you do destroy the region Factbook. The odd catchphrase is not relevant, I just threw it in there because it is something that TBH does to the region Factbook.

the WFE? you can restore those.
http://udl.taijitu.org/wfe_index/
https://www.bowzin.com/wfe_archive

The flag is quite easily changed back to what it was by natives or defenders.

As for 'my region' no natives of SECFanatics have been forcibly banjected as far as I can see, aside from trolls coming into the region.

What part of that damage is irreversible or permanent, pray tell?

[Atheris]

You say you don't enjoy destroying regions? You ruin the WFE, the flag, and evict natives. I've seen what you do first hand. If you're implying what raiders do is harmless, or just for fun, then take a good close look at your region and say that with a straight face.

I'll readdress these points since you don't feel like scrolling up and reading what's been said to Alexander the Magnus.

The WFE is easily able to restored, and if you scroll up, you can find said links to do such, here:

the WFE? you can restore those.
http://udl.taijitu.org/wfe_index/
https://www.bowzin.com/wfe_archive

The flag is quite easily changed back to what it was by natives or defenders.

As for 'my region' no natives of SECFanatics have been forcibly banjected as far as I can see, aside from trolls coming into the region.

What part of that damage is irreversible or permanent, pray tell?

SECFanatics seems to be as much the exception as the example. Have you forgotten what happened to Westphalia? Plus, there's a quote from the formerly active raider Inaga, a notable raider from Red Armor:

"If/once you have seized the delegate position, then you will be able to administer the region. In raids, you must banject (ban and eject) the natives of the region. This may take some time, as you will need enough Regional Influence to ban them. When you select which nation you want to ban, you will be told how much Influence you are using up. Red Armor will then be able to occupy, destroy, and even refound the region."

[Dyllonia]

If you're implying raiders are, unironically horrible people who enjoy nothing but 'destroying regions,' I reccomend you hop into our Discord and talk to us for a bit. The view of 'raiders are horrid fascists' or 'horrible people omg' gets a bit stale after a while with largely no evidence to back it up, particularly when related to TBH.


Edit: Added a note.

You say you don't enjoy destroying regions? You ruin the WFE, the flag, and evict natives. I've seen what you do first hand. If you're implying what raiders do is harmless, or just for fun, then take a good close look at your region and say that with a straight face.

We could argue the moral correctness of raiding all day long and we would get nowhere. This argument has been going on for a very long time. Rather then defending raiding, which again will get us nowhere, I think it is more important to see raiders as what you would see any other player on NationStates. We are nations with players behind the flag who are no worse then any others.

I can understand and respect that my words will have very little impact, but before judging someone on their R/D status, I would respectfully request you look at the other things they do. Because someone raids (not implying it is morally correct or incorrect) does not define the user's value or worth. If you read into the submission writtenly beautifully by Jakker, you will find that most of it involves COE's outstanding work in the North Pacific, which in my opinion the things he did there are worth a commendation alone.

I hope you will read into what i said and if you can't agree with it, at least respect it. Have a good day

Edit: Something that I feel like needs to be said also (and kinda relates to the other things I said) is that this proposal is not "Commend Raiding" it is Commend COE. You can hate raiding with a passion, but associate that with the players who take part in it is an unfair label. Raiders are just people who see the game differently then others, and COE is much more then just 'raiding'. He is a devoted and hardworking player who helped the North Pacific in incredible ways.

[World Assembly Nation 665]

I'll readdress these points since you don't feel like scrolling up and reading what's been said to Alexander the Magnus.

The WFE is easily able to restored, and if you scroll up, you can find said links to do such, here:



The flag is quite easily changed back to what it was by natives or defenders.

As for 'my region' no natives of SECFanatics have been forcibly banjected as far as I can see, aside from trolls coming into the region.

What part of that damage is irreversible or permanent, pray tell?

SECFanatics seems to be as much the exception as the example. Have you forgotten what happened to Westphalia? Plus, there's a quote from the formerly active raider Inaga, a notable raider from Red Armor:

"If/once you have seized the delegate position, then you will be able to administer the region. In raids, you must banject (ban and eject) the natives of the region. This may take some time, as you will need enough Regional Influence to ban them. When you select which nation you want to ban, you will be told how much Influence you are using up. Red Armor will then be able to occupy, destroy, and even refound the region."

First: Many raids end with the region password, and controlled by a placement puppet.

Out of curiosity, could you provide statistics on how frequently raids end with a cleared out region and imposed password, on average? And for good measure, how do those numbers line up with, say, TBH's raids alone over the past couple years?

Truth is, most raided regions don't get locked down, and those that do typically deserve it- by being obviously fascist or whatever else

Not sure what Red Armor has to do with TBH, but yes, that is how gameplay works. As for this entire discussion in general, I'd prefer if we kept it to the proposal itself and COE's work. Please refrain from flaming or trying to flamebait the community of raiders. I am entirely fine with you wanting to debate this in TGS or another area, however. But this is neither the thread nor the situation for it.

[Devi]

Plus, there's a quote from the formerly active raider Inaga, a notable raider from Red Armor:

"If/once you have seized the delegate position, then you will be able to administer the region. In raids, you must banject (ban and eject) the natives of the region. This may take some time, as you will need enough Regional Influence to ban them. When you select which nation you want to ban, you will be told how much Influence you are using up. Red Armor will then be able to occupy, destroy, and even refound the region."

Care to elaborate on why exactly a quote from someone who clearly isn't COE, from a -- defunct -- region COE presumably has had nothing to do with, has any relevance towards the raiding activity COE has actually been involved with, or any relevance towards the validity of his Commendation? Aside from 'they're both raiders', which is a laughable generalisation at best

[Bormiar]

1) The first point is regarding the general outlook by some players here on raiding, not the specific proposal's debate. I'm doubtful that the Security Council would exist if it weren't for raiding. Raiders almost always take out backwater, unused regions and in raiding raiders (technically "invaders" to be contemporarily accurate) created gameplay, which has been instrumental in preserving site activity and developing regions such as the GCRs. That's something to consider if you want to abolish raiding and ostracize all its participants.

2) IC should not be held paramount in how we treat people. Saying the COE is universally bad and he deserves nothing despite doing wonders for the North Pacific's legal system simply because he's a raider requires a deep hatred for all raiders or a holier-than-thou attitude, and neither of those seem to be very helpful in fostering a friendly OOC community. As cited in this resolution, COE has fostered a friendly OOC community.

3) Same thing as what I said here:

There's no question that Evil Wolf is a raider who has done lots and lots of condemnable things, but there's also no reasonable argument that EW hasn't done commendable things, as is evident from the information in "Commend Evil Wolf". This proposal assumes that the condemnable actions can invalidate the badge given for the commendable actions, such as in the cited repeals of "Commend Sedgistan" and "Commend A Mean Old Man". The debate therefore can be fundamentally deconstructed into whether that assumption is fair.

This assumption actually illustrates worthiness for C&Cs as a spectrum between "condemnability" and "commendability", and those which fall furthest on one side of the spectrum are worthy of a C&C. This is an impractical model, as some balance out towards the center; e.g. AMOM, Sedge, Cormac (depending on why you voted against his C&Cs) and get nothing, despite being extremely talented players. This is clearly demonstrated in the repeals of the former two's commendations. The alternative if you accept this idea is that you simply forget one side of their actions, such as Westwind, Darkesia, Ivan Moldavi, etc. You would also have to believe that nations cannot be commended and condemned at the same time.

The other problem with this model is that it considers the spectrum to be a measure of good impact and evil impact, because the condemnable actions supposedly take away from the commendable ones, and the commendable actions supposedly make up for the condemnable ones. It is a struggle between both moral sides. You would have to be a moralist to apply this theory, as you would have to believe that raiding has an evil impact on NationStates. You would also have to accept that condemnations are not badges of honor, as skilled raiding cannot possibly be honorable to a moralist defender. That obviously only leads to making fascists feel good about themselves.

The better model in my opinion is that there are two spectrums in C&Cs:

• condemnable vs not condemnable
• commendable vs not commendable

This is far more practically useful, as it actually recognizes skill rather than goodness and evilness. Skilled players like AMOM and Sedge would actually be given proper recognition in this SC. Evil Wolf has clearly gotten enough to lean heavily commendable and lean heavily condemnable.

[Jakker City]

I realized that I have not linked some of COE's prized musical productions in this thread yet. How silly of me. Enjoy.

Moves Like Jakker: Probably sets the standard for NS music
Grey Wardens Boogie: Just a fun song that won RaiderVision 2017.
Come Join Us: A cover that is now used for TBH recruitment
Cease: Another cover that won RaiderVision 2019.