[Withdrawn] Liberate Asia

[Mallorea and Riva]

If the ejections are followed by a password with the intent to refound then yes, absolutely. I think you'd be partially incorrect in doing so, because this isn't a deception of any kind, but you have no way of knowing that so I can't expect you to believe it.

Another remark to remember.

... ok?

There have been questions about TEP's involvement in this raid. Hopefully I can shed some light on the matter, although I'm not sure how much I'm supposed to reveal.

The Slatos raid, since it was mentioned, was led in large part by TEP. It had a TEP point, and it was led in the EPSA server. This was because Slatos was a known individual to us for OOC drama, and evaded his ban from TEP and attempted to infiltrate the Magisterium by assuming citizenship via a different identity. TNP also had grudges against Slatos for completely different reasons, but they were a valuable ally in the op.

The EPSA is non-aligned. I know in Gameplay it's hard not to think in terms of black and white, but TEP does what it wants to do and it is committed towards that goal. When LD approached me about this raid, he explicitly told me that there would be "no region destruction." So I accepted his invitation. If it becomes apparent that it was a precursor to a refound or something more nefarious, well, then I was very mistaken. However, nothing at the moment (on my end) seems to indicate such.

I think you can try to liberate Asia, but I don't really think it'll ultimately matter.

Region destruction includes ejecting and banning native nations, which has clearly begun.

No one said natives would make it through unscathed. The good news is your Liberation does nothing to stop banjections even when you do pass it.

[Kuriko]

No one said natives would make it through unscathed. The good news is your Liberation does nothing to stop banjections even when you do pass it.

No region destruction, promised by Lord Dominator to Atlae Isles, implies the natives would not be banjected from the region. That's saying the natives will remain unscathed, does it not?

[Mallorea and Riva]

No one said natives would make it through unscathed. The good news is your Liberation does nothing to stop banjections even when you do pass it.

No region destruction, promised by Lord Dominator to Atlae Isles, implies the natives would not be banjected from the region. That's saying the natives will remain unscathed, does it not?

I can't speak for LD, nor can I speak for the conversation that was had with Atlae Isles.

"No region destruction" can be interpreted differently I suppose, but the most natural meaning in my mind is that there is no intent to refound. EDIT: To clarify, no, I do not believe it means that natives won't be banjected.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

No one said natives would make it through unscathed. The good news is your Liberation does nothing to stop banjections even when you do pass it.

No region destruction, promised by Lord Dominator to Atlae Isles, implies the natives would not be banjected from the region. That's saying the natives will remain unscathed, does it not?

Again, how does your proposal stop banjections? It's fine though, you didn't answer last time and won't answer this time.

But let's not let these technicalities take anything away from the fact you had multiple chances to save Asia, and took none of them:

This proposal comes so late because Kuriko, and more generally 10000 Islands, refused to acknowledge this threat earlier. Kuriko openly stated the raid was "potentially not a griefing operation", and also refused to collaborate with my own region's defensive attempts in order to play politics, later throwing fake accusations at my region.

Despite this, Kuriko now claims this raid certainly has malicious intent, insists their proposal has approval from natives of the region (without any real evidence to back this up... hmmmm...), and that they have only these natives' best interests at heart. Does that sound believable?

Be honest, this proposal is nothing more than self-indulgence - you had multiple chances to prevent this and neglected them all because you had to be the one to save them. Now I'm not particuarly one to talk about self-indulgent SC proposals, but I know when I see one and there's a time when they're appropriate. Now is not that timea ssuming, you know, you actually care about the natives of Asia.

I've repeatedly stated I'm not a fan of raiding. One of the reasons for this is that raids like this one, if they're carried through fully, are just pointless destruction of innocent regions.
Now, if TBH thinks anything like I do, they'd be much more inclined to destroy Asia with this proposal up simply because it's not pointless, you've set them a challenge. There's a time limit set, the WA is watching, and TBH has the chance to show off to NS, demonstrate their regional power and show the world how to conduct a successful raid. The stakes are so much higher, all thanks to you.

[Lord Dominator]

No one said natives would make it through unscathed. The good news is your Liberation does nothing to stop banjections even when you do pass it.

No region destruction, promised by Lord Dominator to Atlae Isles, implies the natives would not be banjected from the region. That's saying the natives will remain unscathed, does it not?

Invited regions (except for Balder and LKE, whom have never expressed qualms regarding native booting) made aware that such would be occurring.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Now, if TBH thinks anything like I do

We don't.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

Now, if TBH thinks anything like I do

We don't.

I take it you're an expert on how I think, then?

[New Spiedska]

Support.

[Aurum Raider]

I take it you're an expert on how I think, then?

I'm not an expert, but I suspect that it can't be too hard to figure it out.

[Mallorea and Riva]

We don't.

I take it you're an expert on how I think, then?

You're out here throwing meatballs, surrounded by sluggers. Take your black eye and head on home.

Kuriko - No offense, but you could have done a bit more with the substance of the resolution. Some more details on regional history, something would be nice.

[Miss Bad Life Choices]

Now, if TBH thinks anything like I do

We don't.

And we're happy that we don't.

[The Gilded Star]

We don't.

I take it you're an expert on how I think, then?

I mean, you said, "If TBH thinks like I do," and then proceeded to explain what they'd do if they thought like you did. So in this specific instance... yeah I think they can definitely say whether or not they think the same way you do.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

I take it you're an expert on how I think, then?

I mean, you said, "If TBH thinks like I do," and then proceeded to explain what they'd do if they thought like you did. So in this specific instance... yeah I think they can definitely say whether or not they think the same way you do.

I mean, honestly, TBH has been a joke for some time now so it doesn't surprise me they wouldn't take such an opportunity when it presents itself. They'll lose probably three quarters of new recruits after this raid is over, so this is likely their last chance in a while.

For a region that calls themselves "Home of the Most Feared Military Organisation in NationStates!" there aren't really a lot of regions that fear them, hey?

[Mallorea and Riva]

I mean, you said, "If TBH thinks like I do," and then proceeded to explain what they'd do if they thought like you did. So in this specific instance... yeah I think they can definitely say whether or not they think the same way you do.

I mean, honestly, TBH has been a joke for some time now so it doesn't surprise me they wouldn't take such an opportunity when it presents itself. They'll lose probably three quarters of new recruits after this raid is over, so this is likely their last chance in a while.

For a region that calls themselves "Home of the Most Feared Military Organisation in NationStates!" there aren't really a lot of regions that fear them, hey?

This all has nothing to do with you Shrew. No one cares. Go bother the NPO or something, this is between us and 10KI.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

I mean, honestly, TBH has been a joke for some time now so it doesn't surprise me they wouldn't take such an opportunity when it presents itself. They'll lose probably three quarters of new recruits after this raid is over, so this is likely their last chance in a while.

For a region that calls themselves "Home of the Most Feared Military Organisation in NationStates!" there aren't really a lot of regions that fear them, hey?

This all has nothing to do with you Shrew. No one cares. Go bother the NPO or something, this is between us and 10KI.

I mean it's a proposal thread and within that proposal Kuriko has apparently made every effort to avoid mentioning TBH. I'm really not sure how that's the case. Besides, I'm just pointing out the truth.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

A long long time ago, in a Security Council far far away, Defenders either ghostwrote libs that were submitted by a native, used their own sleepers to pretend to be a native, or at least slapped a native on there as their own co-author.

Sadly, such tales are naught but fantasy and bedtime stories, these days.

But hey, at least that lib badge *ensures* it'll be raided allllll the time for years, until the repeated saltings of the land render it barren.

EDIT: They also used to write "better" libs without being open about the part where they call the other good faith lib proposals shitty. But hey, maybe they have so many friends these days that they don't need to be nice to potential allies anymore?

[Tinhampton]

Agreed with all of what Soulsy says above. An etymology of liberations:

On 29 May 2009, Macedon and Mencer successfully invaded Belgium. Within 36 hours, invader delegate Wallonia-Flanders had password-protected the region and begun ejecting and banning long-time natives of the region... with defenders and invaders alike coming together to criticize the destruction of Belgium.

Goobergunchia, July 2009,
SC#4 "Liberate belgium"

.

DISMAYED that The Black Hawks, with the aid of Unknown, The Black Riders, Kantrias, Ainur, and The New Inquisition, invaded South Pacific on January 13, 2013...

FURTHER NOTING The Black Hawks's history of destroying regions it invades, for which it was condemned by Security Council Resolution #52, and fearing South Pacific might follow the fate of destroyed regions such as Novus Orsa, Hethrum, Nationstates Communist Party, League of the Scaro Alliance, Global Commonwealth, Mare Unae, and others

Anime Daisuki, January 2013,
SC#108 "Liberate South Pacific"

.

Observing that The Arab League was recently invaded by Nazi Europa and that Hatay has been replaced by an invader Delegate that has suppressed regional self-determination...

Recalling that Nazi Europa has a history of permanently conquering regions they invade by barring free entry through the use of impenetrable border control measures

Cormactopia II (with McStooley), May 2016,
SC#198 "Liberate The Arab League"

.

[Asia] has been brutally attacked by raider forces who now occupy the region;

Alarmed by the ongoing increase in the number of occupying forces entering the region, which now total over 90 hostile nations

Kuriko, April 2020,
Liberate Asia

--------

We have had one whole decade of Liberation proposals that have been incredibly specific about who is doing what, why they are doing it, and (for the most part) what they have done in the past. They are supposed to be historical records, and should not be arbitrarily censored because it might give somebody somewhere some unwarranted attention. If Liberate Asia is the future of this resolution type, why can we just not require that all future Liberations be written using a generic cutout template that refrains from all mention of invaders?

I'll have no qualms with voting for this if it proves absolutely necessary, but the writing is just...

[Numero Capitan]

There are now six Hawks on this thread trying to undermine this Liberation proposal - why are they so desperate to block it?

Native ejections have begun and the Black Hawks are now switching between their high influence officers so they can ban as many natives as possible.

The regions of Balder, The East Pacific, Karma, The Land of Kings and Emperors & Lone Wolves United are complicit in this destruction of an entirely innocent region that has been an sizeable community in this game since as long as I can remember, certainly 12 years at least. Some of those regions are less surprising than others.

Those allies were clearly deliberately chosen not only to make the destruction of this region possible (several other regions who might otherwise have been invited have firm policies against this) but the decision to include certain regions also appears to have been done with an intent to manipulate alliances between independents and prevent other independents from lending their forces to a liberation effort. Some food for thought for independent regions who might want to consider whether they've 'been played' by the Black Hawks here.

---

Responses to other comments

Kuriko - No offense, but you could have done a bit more with the substance of the resolution. Some more details on regional history, something would be nice.

Kuriko explained at the beginning that this was kept deliberately to the point, and initial respondents praised it for that specific reason. Apart from you of course, you distracted from the draft process with your whole "I have no hope that natives will be ejected" charade rather than offering any sensible drafting comments when it was required. As native ejections then began within hours of this draft (as we had suspected), Kuriko took the correct approach of submitting it without further delay.

Invited regions (except for Balder and LKE, whom have never expressed qualms regarding native booting) made aware that such would be occurring.

Thanks LD, although I'm 100% sure that isn't in doubt, or the issue here.

I remember you being a particularly enthusiastic cheerleader for liberating regions when Lone Wolves United decided to start ejecting natives of a region you cared about.

You would have thought the East Pacific might remember that, and who did it, too.

but the writing is just...

Not yours? Yes, you seem to have an issue with that.

Souls

Natives don't need to be 'co-author' of a liberation to be a supporter of it, and there are mod rulings that unreasonably listing them as co-authors is a reason for listing the proposal as illegal because they haven't contributed to the drafting.

I have been in contact with natives in Asia over the last few weeks (i.e. including for a time preceding any TBH operation in the region, covering other defences of the region), have kept them up to date on our strategy, as well as the reason for the change in strategy* and they have always supported us doing whatever we can to keep/take the region out of raider hands. This liberation prevents the region from being permanently taken out of native hands behind a password.

*

For those who are interested, defenders were running operations every update to drain the delegate's influence and prevent multiple border control officers from being appointed, at least preventing native ejections regardless of whether a full liberation was mathematically difficult.

A 4-hour lag in update from the drewpocalypse meant that the raiders got over the 26 hour mark and could appoint a BC officer BEFORE update (something that would be impossible on every other day of the year) and completely crippled this strategy by gifting TBH with double the influence to clear out the defenders we had managed to get into the region.

[A Bloodred Moon]

There are now six Hawks on this thread trying to undermine this Liberation proposal - why are they so desperate to block it?

...blocking a liberation that serves no purpose? How shocking that raiders don't want to pass more liberations. You have a loose definition of "desperate".

You would have thought the East Pacific might remember that, and who did it, too.

You'll be happy to hear they did, then - Scardino/Fedele was not present at the operation.

For those who are interested, defenders were running operations every update to drain the delegate's influence and prevent multiple border control officers from being appointed, at least preventing native ejections regardless of whether a full liberation was mathematically difficult.

Yes, I remember you endorsing our Regional Officers which gave them more influence. It set back our ability to appoint BC ROs by 12 hours when you pushed one of our ROs into the delegacy, but the gained influence outweighs that inconvenience, in my opinion. I never expected to gain influence in a target from defender endorsements, but it's a welcome surprise for once.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

[b]There are now six Hawks on this thread trying to undermine this Liberation proposal

Please Liberate the region and give this raid the additional publicity that it deserves!

Urge all voters to consider why a General and two Majors from the Black Hawks are so keen to distract from and deter a liberation of this region in every way possible

Was my post not clear? I very much want a Liberation. All voters should vote in favor.

You brought this up before, went silent, waiting 2 pages of posts, and then said the same thing again but longer-windedly.

And, for what it's worth, the only opinions I (a 2-time SC author!) expressed were "I miss when Defenders tried to incorporate natives into their SC Liberation work" and "Kuriko was a bit of an unnecessary jerk toards Honeydew and Tinhampton's prior work, eh?"

...Though that last one doesn't seem to have stopped you either, Numero.

but the writing is just...

Not yours? Yes, you seem to have an issue with that.

Mirror Mirror, on the wall, why do so many join raiding's roll call?
Reflect on this, reflect on that, don't treat potential allies like a doormat!
Speak with kindness from your hearts, and maybe they won't seek fresh starts.
Mirror Mirror, you're so wise, I shouldn't insult potential allies!

Or in other words...

You can make your point without throwing in unnecessary insults.

---

Those allies were clearly deliberately chosen not only to make the destruction of this region possible (several other regions who might otherwise have been invited have firm policies against this) but the decision to include certain regions also appears to have been done with an intent to manipulate alliances between independents and prevent other independents from lending their forces to a liberation effort. Some food for thought for independent regions who might want to consider whether they've 'been played' by the Black Hawks here.

If I ever meet the producer for Days of Our Lives, I'll make sure to pass on your contact info. This is riveting melodrama you're coming up with, and the quality is about on par.

---

Natives don't need to be 'co-author' of a liberation to be a supporter of it, and there are mod rulings that unreasonably listing them as co-authors is a reason for listing the proposal as illegal because they haven't contributed to the drafting.

I have been in contact with natives in Asia over the last few weeks (i.e. including for a time preceding any TBH operation in the region, covering other defences of the region), have kept them up to date on our strategy, as well as the reason for the change in strategy* and they have always supported us doing whatever we can to keep/take the region out of raider hands. This liberation prevents the region from being permanently taken out of native hands behind a password.

Well, I did imply that slapping their name on there meaninglessly was the laziest option! I'm glad to see you agree that it's both more legal and more interesting when natives actually contribute to the content!

On that note...

And the natives were contacted but haven't replied yet, so you can take your lies and misinformation somewhere else Atagait.

Native approval has been obtained.

https://www.imgur.com/a/Ii6ZFdi

So what's the truth here anyways?

Was there contact, but not connected to this proposal at all until 12 hours ago? As in, you were in contact with them anyways all along, but didn't both to get an opinion on liberating their region until after it was written and submitted?

Or is this "weeks of contact" the bit that's misleading or false?

I mean, it seems impossible, at face value, that both these things are 100% true as written. Who's spreading "misinformation" again?

[Numero Capitan]

Objecting to a proposal because you don't like the writing style whilst natives are being banned en masse gets the response it gets.

Don't like liberations? Don't grief regions

The rest of us don't find that difficult

[WayNeacTia]

How many natives have been ejected so far, and when was the last time TBH attempted to refound a region that wasn't fascist?

I personally agree that these are valid points. The Hawks rarely grief regions and almost never refound them. So far the only damage has been embassy closures and unnecessary RMB spam. That's it. I really wish "certain" people would be so quick to jump the gun on liberations.

This all has nothing to do with you Shrew. No one cares. Go bother the NPO or something, this is between us and 10KI.

I mean it's a proposal thread and within that proposal Kuriko has apparently made every effort to avoid mentioning TBH. I'm really not sure how that's the case. Besides, I'm just pointing out the truth.

And you were politely shown the fucking door. You are swinging with someone who has more experience in the end of his little fingernail than you will ever hope to acquire. Maybe for once, just take the hint and keep the fuck out of it?

[Kuriko]

How many natives have been ejected so far, and when was the last time TBH attempted to refound a region that wasn't fascist?

I personally agree that these are valid points. The Hawks rarely grief regions and almost never refound them. So far the only damage has been embassy closures and unnecessary RMB spam. That's it. I really wish "certain" people would be so quick to jump the gun on liberations.

I mean it's a proposal thread and within that proposal Kuriko has apparently made every effort to avoid mentioning TBH. I'm really not sure how that's the case. Besides, I'm just pointing out the truth.

And you were politely shown the fucking door. You are swinging with someone who has more experience in the end of his little fingernail than you will ever hope to acquire. Maybe for once, just take the hint and keep the fuck out of it?

There have been massive native bannings, that's a little more than just embassy closures.

Re Souls: I wasn't a jerk about Honeydewistania's proposal at all, I didn't even talk about it. And Tinhampton was making the liberation into a joke with the way she wrote her draft, sorry you don't get to have a liberation that makes fun out of you destroying an innocent community for no reason.

Re Tinhampton: I've written liberation proposals this way for the last 3 year's, Liberations don't need to be long winded nor unnecessarily worded. And they certainly shouldn't be written in the very theme of the raid and make levity over the serious act of griefing. Which is happening.

[Kuriko]

Another day, another set of banjections. So much for TBH never destroying innocent communities eh?

7 hours ago: Nihon Jinmin Kiowakoku was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: Valinar was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: El Bandidos was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: Japan EMPIRE Japanese was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: Russian empire Uoion was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: New Rendement was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: Raiders69 was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: Neues Franzosisches Reich was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: Adzuki was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: Oqefrain was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: Mallori was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: The Vordanian East Indies was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: Nestorian Tibet was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: Abashiri-shi was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.
7 hours ago: Yous Shevist was ejected and banned from Asia by Steak paul.

[A Bloodred Moon]

There have been massive native bannings, that's a little more than just embassy closures.

Your liberation does nothing against that, though. The banjections will continue until we decide to stop them. Or until you pull 80 updaters out of thin air and beat us. The former seems more likely, somehow. Either way, the resolution does not affect the outcome of this.