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by Lord Dominator » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:06 am
by Kuriko » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:12 am
Mallorea and Riva wrote:Kuriko wrote:I'm just going to point out, again, that TBH isn't the only force in the region. After they leave they have no say if LWU or LKE take over and go to make it a trophy. A liberation is necessary to stop the anhilation of the region by any of the occupying forces, especially those like LWU and LKE who have histories of destroying innocent communities.
This is another one of those "You're right in theory, but what about in practice?" moments. Theory and practice are the same, in theory, but not in practice. Practically speaking, can you point to any examples of the above occurring?Mallorea and Riva wrote:I'm still curious as to if natives were consulted on this Liberation.
by Numero Capitan » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:16 am
by Lord Dominator » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:28 am
Numero Capitan wrote:I'm sure a refound of Asia was never what anyone was 'planning on' as you were planning on raiding Anarchy but lost that battle to defenders,
by Jakker » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:40 am
The Bruce wrote:Mostly I feel sorry for [raiders], because they put in all this effort and at the end of the day have nothing to show for it and have created nothing.
by Numero Capitan » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:44 am
by Jakker » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:45 am
Numero Capitan wrote:Urge all voters to consider why a General and two Majors from the Black Hawks are so keen to distract from and deter a liberation of this region in every way possible
The Bruce wrote:Mostly I feel sorry for [raiders], because they put in all this effort and at the end of the day have nothing to show for it and have created nothing.
by Lord Dominator » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:47 am
Numero Capitan wrote:Urge all voters to consider why a General and two Majors from the Black Hawks are so keen to distract from and deter a liberation of this region in every way possible
by Dangine card farm » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:56 am
by Mallorea and Riva » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:43 am
Kuriko wrote:Mallorea and Riva wrote:This is another one of those "You're right in theory, but what about in practice?" moments. Theory and practice are the same, in theory, but not in practice. Practically speaking, can you point to any examples of the above occurring?
I'm kind of at work, so I can't grab examples plus i wasnt around for the majority of their existences. Also, the fact that you're trying to argue the natives rights is extremely at odds with the fact that you yourself said you want to burn the region no matter what. Instead of trying to deflect, you should pay more attention to what you say. The natives have been telegrammed, I'm waiting on a reply.
Lord Dominator wrote:Numero Capitan wrote:Urge all voters to consider why a General and two Majors from the Black Hawks are so keen to distract from and deter a liberation of this region in every way possible
Because I'm opposed to the inevitable defender crowing that the Liberation prevented a refound or trophy taking once we withdraw, rather than the simple fact that we never intended to do either action in the first place.
by ShrewLlamaLand » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:06 am
by The Stalker » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:11 am
by Mallorea and Riva » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:13 am
The Stalker wrote:Not sure if I missed it, but does this have native support?
Even if it isn't for sure needed for this current raid, long term it might be helpful for Asia to have a liberation in place, so assuming natives are on board I see no reason not to pass it.
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Against.
XKI had their chance to save this region, it's now gone.
There are almost certainly too many proposals in the SC queue for this to pass in time (it'll take two weeks to come into effect) provided TBH really have the intention of refounding.
That said, I really don't think they have any intention of refounding regardless.
by ShrewLlamaLand » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:20 am
Mallorea and Riva wrote:ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Against.
XKI had their chance to save this region, it's now gone.
There are almost certainly too many proposals in the SC queue for this to pass in time (it'll take two weeks to come into effect) provided TBH really have the intention of refounding.
That said, I really don't think they have any intention of refounding regardless.
Can you lay out the math on that one?
by Aurum Raider » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:05 am
The Stalker wrote:Not sure if I missed it, but does this have native support?
Even if it isn't for sure needed for this current raid, long term it might be helpful for Asia to have a liberation in place, so assuming natives are on board I see no reason not to pass it.
The North Polish Union wrote:Additionally, virtually all founderless regions are viewed as falling under the defenders' allegedly protective purview. This is a form of colonialism that the great imperialist regions of NS history could only dream of.
by Kuriko » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:13 am
Aurum Raider wrote:The Stalker wrote:Not sure if I missed it, but does this have native support?
Even if it isn't for sure needed for this current raid, long term it might be helpful for Asia to have a liberation in place, so assuming natives are on board I see no reason not to pass it.
I am going to be honest with you. I doubt that a single thought was spared for the natives of Asia.
The natives of Asia have not been mentioned in the text of the proposal.
The defenders do not care about the natives of Asia, they care about the fact that Raiders have occupied the region, and they have been unsuccessful at liberating it.
by Aurum Raider » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:20 am
Kuriko wrote:I can assure you, we care about the native community. Just because they aren't mentioned in the text doesn't mean that we don't care. And the natives were contacted but haven't replied yet, so you can take your lies and misinformation somewhere else Atagait.
The North Polish Union wrote:Additionally, virtually all founderless regions are viewed as falling under the defenders' allegedly protective purview. This is a form of colonialism that the great imperialist regions of NS history could only dream of.
by A Bloodred Moon » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:22 am
Kuriko wrote:I'm just going to point out, again, that TBH isn't the only force in the region. After they leave they have no say if LWU or LKE take over and go to make it a trophy. A liberation is necessary to stop the anhilation of the region by any of the occupying forces, especially those like LWU and LKE who have histories of destroying innocent communities.
by Mallorea and Riva » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:31 am
Kuriko wrote:Aurum Raider wrote:
I am going to be honest with you. I doubt that a single thought was spared for the natives of Asia.
The natives of Asia have not been mentioned in the text of the proposal.
The defenders do not care about the natives of Asia, they care about the fact that Raiders have occupied the region, and they have been unsuccessful at liberating it.
I can assure you, we care about the native community. Just because they aren't mentioned in the text doesn't mean that we don't care. And the natives were contacted but haven't replied yet, so you can take your lies and misinformation somewhere else Atagait.
by ShrewLlamaLand » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:32 am
Aurum Raider wrote:The Stalker wrote:Not sure if I missed it, but does this have native support?
Even if it isn't for sure needed for this current raid, long term it might be helpful for Asia to have a liberation in place, so assuming natives are on board I see no reason not to pass it.
I am going to be honest with you. I doubt that a single thought was spared for the natives of Asia.
The natives of Asia have not been mentioned in the text of the proposal.
The defenders do not care about the natives of Asia, they care about the fact that Raiders have occupied the region, and they have been unsuccessful at liberating it.
by Kuriko » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:33 am
Aurum Raider wrote:Kuriko wrote:I can assure you, we care about the native community. Just because they aren't mentioned in the text doesn't mean that we don't care. And the natives were contacted but haven't replied yet, so you can take your lies and misinformation somewhere else Atagait.
I think that's either an indication of natives uninterested in being Liberated by you, or natives who were dead in the first place, Kuriko.
A Bloodred Moon wrote:Kuriko wrote:I'm just going to point out, again, that TBH isn't the only force in the region. After they leave they have no say if LWU or LKE take over and go to make it a trophy. A liberation is necessary to stop the anhilation of the region by any of the occupying forces, especially those like LWU and LKE who have histories of destroying innocent communities.
How long ago was it that LWU refounded a region after an occupation? How long ago for the LKE? Has there been any indication that makes such a tale likely?
LWU has no interest in taking over occupations from other organisations, much less to burn a region that will likely only take up time and resources for little gain. I reckon my word on that won't mean much to you, since you've already moved forward with submitting this, but still. I obviously cannot speak for the LKE on that, but I cannot recall the last time the LKE refounded a region by force. They haven't done so in years, and I believe all of their refounds have been done with a justification as to why the LKE wished to see them destroyed - I have not heard of the LKE having any motive for doing so now.
On the good side, the raid will be broadcasted for all to see. Thank you for that, at least, even if I'm unsure what you aim to achieve with this.
by Aurum Raider » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:34 am
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:I did put together a plan that would have completely prevented the possibility of TBH refounding the region.
The North Polish Union wrote:Additionally, virtually all founderless regions are viewed as falling under the defenders' allegedly protective purview. This is a form of colonialism that the great imperialist regions of NS history could only dream of.
by Tinhampton » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:34 am
In her submitted version of "Liberate Asia," Kuriko wrote:the raider forces will grief the region
by Kuriko » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:35 am
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Aurum Raider wrote:
I am going to be honest with you. I doubt that a single thought was spared for the natives of Asia.
The natives of Asia have not been mentioned in the text of the proposal.
The defenders do not care about the natives of Asia, they care about the fact that Raiders have occupied the region, and they have been unsuccessful at liberating it.
Oh, well said, I absolutely agree with you.
Let me disclose something for the record:
I was contacted from an unassociated nation asking for CCD's assistance in defending Asia. We don't have an active raiding force, and could not have defended such a large scale raid regardless, but I did put together a plan that would have completely prevented the possibility of TBH refounding the region.
This plan was devised several days ago, and I contacted XKI via telegram, then later through Discord.
Of course, I got no response... maybe because the author of this proposal would rather get their name on another SC resolution than actually defend this region.
So yeah, aside from the fact it's too little too late if TBH and the others really want to refound, let's not pretend that Kuriko actually cares about the natives of Asia... or any other region for that matter. Solidly against
by ShrewLlamaLand » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:36 am
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