[Withdrawn] Liberate Asia

[Lord Dominator]

If LWU has the piler numbers (or that and support) or LKE has the willingness to take over after we leave, then good for them and all. I don't think they're planning on that right now however.

[Kuriko]

I'm just going to point out, again, that TBH isn't the only force in the region. After they leave they have no say if LWU or LKE take over and go to make it a trophy. A liberation is necessary to stop the anhilation of the region by any of the occupying forces, especially those like LWU and LKE who have histories of destroying innocent communities.

This is another one of those "You're right in theory, but what about in practice?" moments. Theory and practice are the same, in theory, but not in practice. Practically speaking, can you point to any examples of the above occurring?

I'm still curious as to if natives were consulted on this Liberation.

I'm kind of at work, so I can't grab examples plus i wasnt around for the majority of their existences. Also, the fact that you're trying to argue the natives rights is extremely at odds with the fact that you yourself said you want to burn the region no matter what. Instead of trying to deflect, you should pay more attention to what you say. The natives have been telegrammed, I'm waiting on a reply.

[Numero Capitan]

The Khan of Lone Wolves United already has border control powers and enough influence to impose a password if enough people leave (i.e. the Black Hawks withdraw after banning whichever natives they fancy, as they clearly aren't committing to not doing that).

I'm sure a refound of Asia was never what anyone was 'planning on' as you were planning on raiding Anarchy but lost that battle to defenders, but the Security Council can't sit happily and assume that those plans won't change now that you've been able to pile this occupation sky high. There are plenty of raiders with border control who will happily ban the natives and refound the region (and already potentially have the power to do so with little to no time for a response).

A liberation takes that possibility away, as well as the ability of a flash refound whilst a proposal submitted later because of your attempts to stall this one from sitting in the queue

[Lord Dominator]

I'm sure a refound of Asia was never what anyone was 'planning on' as you were planning on raiding Anarchy but lost that battle to defenders,

The plans for both Anarchy and Asia were always the same, otherwise Asia wouldn't have been the planned backup.

[Jakker]

Please Liberate the region and give this raid the additional publicity that it deserves!

[Numero Capitan]

Urge all voters to consider why a General and two Majors from the Black Hawks are so keen to distract from and deter a liberation of this region in every way possible

[Jakker]

Urge all voters to consider why a General and two Majors from the Black Hawks are so keen to distract from and deter a liberation of this region in every way possible

Was my post not clear? I very much want a Liberation. All voters should vote in favor.

[Lord Dominator]

Urge all voters to consider why a General and two Majors from the Black Hawks are so keen to distract from and deter a liberation of this region in every way possible

Because I'm opposed to the inevitable defender crowing that the Liberation prevented a refound or trophy taking once we withdraw, rather than the simple fact that we never intended to do either action in the first place.

[Dangine card farm]

I'm really confused why TEP would partake in raiding Asia. I would expect higher standards from a feeder region.
Anyways, support.

[Mallorea and Riva]

This is another one of those "You're right in theory, but what about in practice?" moments. Theory and practice are the same, in theory, but not in practice. Practically speaking, can you point to any examples of the above occurring?

I'm kind of at work, so I can't grab examples plus i wasnt around for the majority of their existences. Also, the fact that you're trying to argue the natives rights is extremely at odds with the fact that you yourself said you want to burn the region no matter what. Instead of trying to deflect, you should pay more attention to what you say. The natives have been telegrammed, I'm waiting on a reply.

I'm not arguing for natives' rights, I'm just pointing out that you're not either. I, for one, enjoy the theme of caring more about the concept of a "native" than actual living, breathing natives. Pushing a Liberation draft forward without any thought of the actual natives it will affect is an ideal example. Obviously my preference would be to just burn the region down.

Urge all voters to consider why a General and two Majors from the Black Hawks are so keen to distract from and deter a liberation of this region in every way possible

Because I'm opposed to the inevitable defender crowing that the Liberation prevented a refound or trophy taking once we withdraw, rather than the simple fact that we never intended to do either action in the first place.

This is an old issue that follows all pointless Liberations. Some things never change.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

Against.
XKI had their chance to save this region, it's now gone.

There are almost certainly too many proposals in the SC queue for this to pass in time (it'll take two weeks to come into effect) provided TBH really have the intention of refounding.

That said, I really don't think they have any intention of refounding regardless.

[The Stalker]

Not sure if I missed it, but does this have native support?

Even if it isn't for sure needed for this current raid, long term it might be helpful for Asia to have a liberation in place, so assuming natives are on board I see no reason not to pass it.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Not sure if I missed it, but does this have native support?

Even if it isn't for sure needed for this current raid, long term it might be helpful for Asia to have a liberation in place, so assuming natives are on board I see no reason not to pass it.

Nobody thought to ask what natives thought other than big cruel me

Against.
XKI had their chance to save this region, it's now gone.

There are almost certainly too many proposals in the SC queue for this to pass in time (it'll take two weeks to come into effect) provided TBH really have the intention of refounding.

That said, I really don't think they have any intention of refounding regardless.

Can you lay out the math on that one?

[ShrewLlamaLand]

Against.
XKI had their chance to save this region, it's now gone.

There are almost certainly too many proposals in the SC queue for this to pass in time (it'll take two weeks to come into effect) provided TBH really have the intention of refounding.

That said, I really don't think they have any intention of refounding regardless.

Can you lay out the math on that one?

If Condemn Royaltonn makes quorum it's 15 days until this has a chance to pass.

There are 94 endos on TBH's Delegate and it's still increasing. If TBH really want to refound and it becomes a race against the clock, this'll increase.

Asia has less than 50 natives, highest three are 8k, 5k, 3k influence. It's tight, but with well coordinated swapping of the Delegacy to kick out the high influence natives it's doable in that timeframe.

Again, no opinion if it's really their intention to refound, but if that's the case and I'm TBH I'm doing everything I can to make sure Condemn Royaltonn reaches quorum.

[Aurum Raider]

Not sure if I missed it, but does this have native support?

Even if it isn't for sure needed for this current raid, long term it might be helpful for Asia to have a liberation in place, so assuming natives are on board I see no reason not to pass it.

I am going to be honest with you. I doubt that a single thought was spared for the natives of Asia.
The natives of Asia have not been mentioned in the text of the proposal.

The defenders do not care about the natives of Asia, they care about the fact that Raiders have occupied the region, and they have been unsuccessful at liberating it.

[Kuriko]

Not sure if I missed it, but does this have native support?

Even if it isn't for sure needed for this current raid, long term it might be helpful for Asia to have a liberation in place, so assuming natives are on board I see no reason not to pass it.

I am going to be honest with you. I doubt that a single thought was spared for the natives of Asia.
The natives of Asia have not been mentioned in the text of the proposal.

The defenders do not care about the natives of Asia, they care about the fact that Raiders have occupied the region, and they have been unsuccessful at liberating it.

I can assure you, we care about the native community. Just because they aren't mentioned in the text doesn't mean that we don't care. And the natives were contacted but haven't replied yet, so you can take your lies and misinformation somewhere else Atagait.

[Aurum Raider]

I can assure you, we care about the native community. Just because they aren't mentioned in the text doesn't mean that we don't care. And the natives were contacted but haven't replied yet, so you can take your lies and misinformation somewhere else Atagait.

I think that's either an indication of natives uninterested in being Liberated by you, or natives who were dead in the first place, Kuriko.

[A Bloodred Moon]

I'm just going to point out, again, that TBH isn't the only force in the region. After they leave they have no say if LWU or LKE take over and go to make it a trophy. A liberation is necessary to stop the anhilation of the region by any of the occupying forces, especially those like LWU and LKE who have histories of destroying innocent communities.

How long ago was it that LWU refounded a region after an occupation? How long ago for the LKE? Has there been any indication that makes such a tale likely?

LWU has no interest in taking over occupations from other organisations, much less to burn a region that will likely only take up time and resources for little gain. I reckon my word on that won't mean much to you, since you've already moved forward with submitting this, but still. I obviously cannot speak for the LKE on that, but I cannot recall the last time the LKE refounded a region by force. They haven't done so in years, and I believe all of their refounds have been done with a justification as to why the LKE wished to see them destroyed - I have not heard of the LKE having any motive for doing so now.

On the good side, the raid will be broadcasted for all to see. Thank you for that, at least, even if I'm unsure what you aim to achieve with this.

[Mallorea and Riva]

I am going to be honest with you. I doubt that a single thought was spared for the natives of Asia.
The natives of Asia have not been mentioned in the text of the proposal.

The defenders do not care about the natives of Asia, they care about the fact that Raiders have occupied the region, and they have been unsuccessful at liberating it.

I can assure you, we care about the native community. Just because they aren't mentioned in the text doesn't mean that we don't care. And the natives were contacted but haven't replied yet, so you can take your lies and misinformation somewhere else Atagait.

When were natives first contacted about the Liberation proposal? Before or after I raised the point in the thread?

[ShrewLlamaLand]

Not sure if I missed it, but does this have native support?

Even if it isn't for sure needed for this current raid, long term it might be helpful for Asia to have a liberation in place, so assuming natives are on board I see no reason not to pass it.

I am going to be honest with you. I doubt that a single thought was spared for the natives of Asia.
The natives of Asia have not been mentioned in the text of the proposal.

The defenders do not care about the natives of Asia, they care about the fact that Raiders have occupied the region, and they have been unsuccessful at liberating it.

Oh, well said, I absolutely agree with you.

Let me disclose something for the record:

I was contacted from an unassociated nation asking for CCD's assistance in defending Asia. We don't have an active raiding force, and could not have defended such a large scale raid regardless, but I did put together a plan that would have completely prevented the possibility of TBH refounding the region.

This plan was devised several days ago, and I contacted XKI via telegram, then later through Discord.



Of course, I got no response... maybe because the author of this proposal would rather get their name on another SC resolution than actually defend this region.

So yeah, aside from the fact it's too little too late if TBH and the others really want to refound, let's not pretend that Kuriko actually cares about the natives of Asia... or any other region for that matter. Solidly against

[Kuriko]

I can assure you, we care about the native community. Just because they aren't mentioned in the text doesn't mean that we don't care. And the natives were contacted but haven't replied yet, so you can take your lies and misinformation somewhere else Atagait.

I think that's either an indication of natives uninterested in being Liberated by you, or natives who were dead in the first place, Kuriko.

No, what it indicates is that they're not on often. Not that they aren't interested.

I'm just going to point out, again, that TBH isn't the only force in the region. After they leave they have no say if LWU or LKE take over and go to make it a trophy. A liberation is necessary to stop the anhilation of the region by any of the occupying forces, especially those like LWU and LKE who have histories of destroying innocent communities.

How long ago was it that LWU refounded a region after an occupation? How long ago for the LKE? Has there been any indication that makes such a tale likely?

LWU has no interest in taking over occupations from other organisations, much less to burn a region that will likely only take up time and resources for little gain. I reckon my word on that won't mean much to you, since you've already moved forward with submitting this, but still. I obviously cannot speak for the LKE on that, but I cannot recall the last time the LKE refounded a region by force. They haven't done so in years, and I believe all of their refounds have been done with a justification as to why the LKE wished to see them destroyed - I have not heard of the LKE having any motive for doing so now.

On the good side, the raid will be broadcasted for all to see. Thank you for that, at least, even if I'm unsure what you aim to achieve with this.

Our objective is clear, stop you from passwordingvthe region and deter you from destroying the native community. That's pretty obvious.

[Aurum Raider]

I did put together a plan that would have completely prevented the possibility of TBH refounding the region.

While I am extremely interested to know what this plan is, I imagine it's some top secret stuff to be used when Joco CTEs.

[Tinhampton]

the raider forces will grief the region

...you said on my version of Liberate Asia that no defender had considered such a proposal as of Monday "because it's potentially not a griefing operation... don't submit it until it's absolutely clear it's a griefing operation"? How did that magically change with the addition of about thirty more pilers and the ejection of a handful of some would-be defenders? (I had asked Whims - the longest-standing native - for their opinion on the principle of Liberate Asia via telegram, but they never responded.)

Hell no, until and unless natives start falling victim to the banhammer.

[Kuriko]

I am going to be honest with you. I doubt that a single thought was spared for the natives of Asia.
The natives of Asia have not been mentioned in the text of the proposal.

The defenders do not care about the natives of Asia, they care about the fact that Raiders have occupied the region, and they have been unsuccessful at liberating it.

Oh, well said, I absolutely agree with you.

Let me disclose something for the record:

I was contacted from an unassociated nation asking for CCD's assistance in defending Asia. We don't have an active raiding force, and could not have defended such a large scale raid regardless, but I did put together a plan that would have completely prevented the possibility of TBH refounding the region.

This plan was devised several days ago, and I contacted XKI via telegram, then later through Discord.



Of course, I got no response... maybe because the author of this proposal would rather get their name on another SC resolution than actually defend this region.

So yeah, aside from the fact it's too little too late if TBH and the others really want to refound, let's not pretend that Kuriko actually cares about the natives of Asia... or any other region for that matter. Solidly against

We don't work or associate with fascists. Especially fascists who have recruitment bombed us many times.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

I did put together a plan that would have completely prevented the possibility of TBH refounding the region.

While I am extremely interested to know what this plan is, I imagine it's some top secret stuff to be used when Joco CTEs.

Jocospor won't CTE

You're right though, I'm not going to disclose it here.

-snip-

We don't work or associate with fascists. Especially fascists who have recruitment bombed us many times.

We're not fascists. Even our harshest critics have said neither Jocospor nor myself are fascist.

Regardless, this just confirms exactly what I said: you'd rather play politics than actually help the natives of Asia.