[DEFEATED] Liberate The Union of the Axis Powers

[Lothric-]

I refer to the SC own guide here.

(Image)

clearly the region is not threatened by the password present as it set the password to protect itself from destruction (which you are advocating).
By this guideline this proposal is wrong.

The guide is not binding (hence being a guide).

Imagine if the UN had guidelines and then NATO just totally blew said guidelines off, not 'a little' blow off, but 100% just going against them.

The UN would be on NATO's ass ASAP, but as I said, the WA and its associated organizations are poorly set up and since they're managed by volunteers, they won't ever be set up properly.

[Lord Dominator]

The guide is not binding (hence being a guide).

Imagine if the UN had guidelines and then NATO just totally blew said guidelines off, not 'a little' blow off, but 100% just going against them.

The UN would be on NATO's ass ASAP, but as I said, the WA and its associated organizations are poorly set up and since they're managed by volunteers, they won't ever be set up properly.

They're set up perfectly fine, you're just assuming that a guide is worth far more than it is.

[Terranihil]

Has the WA ever unpassworded a region before?

[Tinhampton]

Has the WA ever unpassworded a region before?

Yes, on multiple occasions, the first such region being belgium.

[Sedgistan]

I refer to the SC own guide here.

(Image)

clearly the region is not threatened by the password present as it set the password to protect itself from destruction (which you are advocating).
By this guideline this proposal is wrong.

I wrote that thread originally. It's a 10-year old document that's extremely out of date, and was merely a guide to how the SC could be used (or was being used - 10 years ago). It is in no way a requirement that anything there be followed.

That guide is on my to-do list to re-write at some point.

[Remlasia]

The Principality of Remlasia:

• agrees with The Free Land of Gwrachbyd on this matter; [1]
• cannot support resolutions that focus on the ideology of a nation or region over their actions or threats;
• declares the region to be a fascist union of nations entirely incompatible with our way of life;
• does take consideration of, and deep concern to, the Union of Axis Powers' association with another region that attempted a coup against our allies in The North Pacific, but some regions or nations choose the path of neutrality with other regions or nations and should not be found guilty by mere association;
• believes the proposal only focuses on the disgust of one ideology over another without providing evidence of any actions or threats by the region or its nations that would warrant intervention by the World Assembly;
• shall therefore regretably be voting AGAINST this proposal.

[1] viewtopic.php?p=36737802#p36737802

[New Jakobly]

So we can liberate all the commie regions because they exist and nobody will have a problem?

[Lord Dominator]

So we can liberate all the commie regions because they exist and nobody will have a problem?

If you'd like to try, go for it

[Gorundu]

So we can liberate all the commie regions because they exist and nobody will have a problem?

I'd be hard pressed to find any active communist regions endorsing Stalin and Mao the same way fascist regions endorse Hitler and Mussolini, so good luck with that.

[Lord Dominator]

So we can liberate all the commie regions because they exist and nobody will have a problem?

I'd be hard pressed to find any active communist regions endorsing Stalin and Mao the same way fascist regions endorse Hitler and Mussolini, so good luck with that.

North Korea comes to mind, for a given definition of active. Unfortunately the founder actually has a decent track record of not being DEATed, so.

[New Vedan]

"Let's liberate this region so we can go in and kill it off and deport all the natives." M8 I dont think this is exactly what liberation's are meant for.

[Lord Dominator]

"Let's liberate this region so we can go in and kill it off and deport all the natives." M8 I dont think this is exactly what liberation's are meant for.

They're meant for any reason that they can be passed

[WayNeacTia]

So we can liberate all the commie regions because they exist and nobody will have a problem?

Have at it. I am sure you will find just as much success as Shrew and Joco do.

[Mardilia]

Either we allow free speech or we have none. Completely banning and denouncing fascism is a threat to the democracy that so many of you want to protect. So which is it? Are people allowed to believe what they want and make up their own minds or do you have to censor and denounce so people aren't able to express themselves or hear others. Extremely hypocritical. Why isn't communism or socialism being cracked down upon as much as fascism or nazism as well?

[Mardilia]

So we can liberate all the commie regions because they exist and nobody will have a problem?

I'd be hard pressed to find any active communist regions endorsing Stalin and Mao the same way fascist regions endorse Hitler and Mussolini, so good luck with that.

Because Stalin and Mao were actually bad for their respective countries and much worse. They also don't want to give a bad image of communism so they can spread their ideology farther.

Arguably you could say Mussolini was bad but he isn't propped up as much as Hitler.

[Barometria]

IC (This is a game, right?) Response:

Greetings from the Socialist Commonwealths of Barometria!

As always, we have presented our populace a vote on the matter currently before the Security Council, of which Barometria is a member by virtue of being a member of the World Assembly. We all know what the proposal is, so in the interests of full transparency, these were the options presented to the Barometrian voters, both citizens and tourists who felt like voting:

FOR: RECOGNIZING that there is no place anywhere for Fascism, the citizens and tourists have decided that the Region is to be 'Liberated'. This position holds that some political ideals are so abhorrent, so deplorable, that they must be stomped out and curtailed even if it involves offensive action being taken. Barometria chooses to engage in this action.

AGAINST: WHILST obviously not supporting Fascism, Barometria recognizes the right to self-governance of a Region, and therefore, votes AGAINST this Liberation on the grounds that the Region has taken no offensive action against any other region. Granted, this vote would tacitly allow the Fascism to continue to exist in this Region, but it is not Barometria's right to attempt to influence a Region by means aside from diplomacy and/or, in a worst-case scenario, condemnation...UNLESS AND ONLY IF that Region takes an OFFENSIVE action against others.

NO VOTE: Barometria shall take the stand that it has no right to influence Regional policies by any militaristically offensive means, but at the same time, intentionally preventing other Regions from taking offensive action would similarly be a repression of the autonomy of those Regions. Whilst Barometria will not CONDONE any such offensive action, Barometria will also not act to stop it PROVIDED that Barometria itself is not threatened. A NO VOTE on this matter represents the view that OFFENSIVE military actions are better left for OFFENSIVE military Nations/Regions to decide because Barometria is only concerned with its own DEFENSE and the DEFENSE of its allies. Accordingly, Barometria abstains.

The results of the vote will appear soon, but first, this message from the Barometrian Ministry of Tourism!

Visting beautiful Barometria sometime soon? Do you have friends who are? The Barometria Ministry of Tourism is happy to announce that we are extending the fee-free (Barometria is not responsible for fees levied by your country itself or your financial institution therein) currency conversion to the Barometrian Credit by three more days!

Avoid the long lines and save some Credits in the process! With so much beauty to behold in bountiful Barometria, why not hit the ground running with the credits already conveniently loaded into your account? Barometrian Credit accounts are fully guaranteed by the Barometrian Government, and remember, Credits are only reduced at a rate of 5% for every three years unused. You can also convert back* at any time!

Also, if you have visited Barometria and did not use all of your Credits, please keep in mind that Credits can be transferred from one Barometria account to another, ALWAYS with no charge.

And what other tourist country lets you vote!? Tourists LOVE taking part in the political process here in Barometria, and can you really say you have traveled if you've yet to vote in another country? Remember, when you're here, you're a Barometrian!

*Fees apply, the only free conversion in this offer is conversion TO the Barometrian Credit, not from it. The fee to transfer the Barometrian Credit to other currencies is a 5% reduction to the amount of Credits being converted, then conversion.

VOTE RESULTS:

FOR: 16.2%
AGAINST: 27.9%
NO VOTE: 55.9%

Now, a message from your favorite dignitary and ours, Prince Reibus:

Greetings from Barometria!

The citizens of Barometria and the tourists who also happened to vote have spoken, and resoundingly, they have decided that Barometria is not inclined to participate, in any way, with either preventing or condoning OFFENSIVE militaristic actions taken by its allies. Obviously, there are some ideologies that Barometria would ACTIVELY PROTECT, if they were threatened by an offensive incursion, but Fascism is not one of them. The citizens of Barometria find the current situation LESS THAN IDEAL because it is nearly unprecedented for the Security Council to take militaristic action in an offensive posture. While it has been stated that Fascism would be the only ideology stomped out, if given the opportunity...time will only tell.

The problem is the creation of exceptions when there are a few principles that Barometrians believe should be held dear. In the early days of Barometrian history, one of those FOUNDING PRINCIPLES was that of non-aggression. Barometria continues that principle to this day, and as such, will not participate in this OFFENSIVE action in any way, including voting either for or against.

Barometria CONSCIENTIOUSLY OBJECTS to this matter even being presented to it at all.

Always Fair and Always With Love,
Prince Reibus- Premier Dignitary of Barometria

[Lord Dominator]

Either we allow free speech or we have none. Completely banning and denouncing fascism is a threat to the democracy that so many of you want to protect. So which is it? Are people allowed to believe what they want and make up their own minds or do you have to censor and denounce so people aren't able to express themselves or hear others. Extremely hypocritical. Why isn't communism or socialism being cracked down upon as much as fascism or nazism as well?

This is censuring, ie a community of people saying they disagree with [x], not censorship as you seem to think it is.

[Spode Humbled Minions]

Either we allow free speech or we have none. Completely banning and denouncing fascism is a threat to the democracy that so many of you want to protect. So which is it? Are people allowed to believe what they want and make up their own minds or do you have to censor and denounce so people aren't able to express themselves or hear others. Extremely hypocritical. Why isn't communism or socialism being cracked down upon as much as fascism or nazism as well?

"Either we allow free speech or we have none"

"Ahahahaha! Hahaha! Free speech! No, it's not. I run this web site, see, so you have to play by my rules. It's like my own Father Knows Best state"
- Owner of the website https://www.nationstates.net/page=faq#etiquette

And the great thing is, even though there are rules, and "a minimum standard of behavior" that is enforced, we still have mostly free speech. Which is why going with a 'either we have it all or we have nothing argument' does not work particularly well in this case. Or in a lot of cases.

And for some odd reason which is definitely not related to that "minimum standard of behavior" requirement, Fascist regions seem to constantly find themselves getting their members DEATed and their RMB posts suppressed by moderators. And for the same odd reason, a lot of players dislike Fascist regions as well, leading to WASC legislation like this.

[The Gilded Star]

Completely banning and denouncing fascism is a threat to the democracy that so many of you want to protect.

Fascism seeks to destroy democracy, so you either allow fascism and destroy democracy or deny fascism and destroy democracy. Since democracy is being destroyed either way, we might as well show fascism the door too.

[Cedoria]

Everyone here is clearly allowing real world bias and historic track record of actual Nazis to cloud their judgement in a game that is supposed to be separated from those things. The reactionary response of "There's a fascist kill it!" is just as bad as the fascism you're claiming to be against. This is an unwarranted attack force our viewpoint on someone simply because they are different.

I could support this resolution if it were at least better worded. Right now it sounds like a middle schooler wrote it and uses a lot of emotion in a legal document. Its goals are noble, but its method of achieving them are worse than the thing they aim to destroy.

No it's not. Killing Fascism where it's seen is an entirely appropriate response, and is proactive, not reactive.

[Cedoria]

The guide is not binding (hence being a guide).

Imagine if the UN had guidelines and then NATO just totally blew said guidelines off, not 'a little' blow off, but 100% just going against them.

The UN would be on NATO's ass ASAP, but as I said, the WA and its associated organizations are poorly set up and since they're managed by volunteers, they won't ever be set up properly.

The SC's stated goal is "maintenance of interregional peace and goodwill by force if necessary"

No, it's perfectly within it's guidelines, you just don't seem to get that a guide is only worth as much as players care about it.

[Bulgurdia]

Well, the region has been refounded with the exact same template, so I feel like this resolution has lost it's point.

[Lord Dominator]

Well, the region has been refounded with the exact same template, so I feel like this resolution has lost it's point.

That's a successor region, which is rather different from the region being refounded.

[WayNeacTia]

Well, the region has been refounded with the exact same template, so I feel like this resolution has lost it's point.

And it will inevitably become founderless as well, at which point we can repeat this exercise.

[Mahrenbach]

Believing the region in question too small, insignificant and thus not meriting any attention of the Security Council beyond the very circumstance that led them to became a liberation target, (namely being a founderless fascist region):

Mahrenbach votes with Nay

The fact that within the last 24 hours the region has been all but emptied down to a single nation and can be soon expected to be abandoned at any given moment further reinforces us in this view. It can, at this point, not be ruled out that by the time the resolution comes into effect (In 1 day 4 hours from the current moment) the region might have been effectively refounded by an entirely different party which further would render this, also hastly rushed and worded, resolution, even more moot.