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[Draft] Commend Twobagger

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Cormactopia Prime
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Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:04 am

Kuriko wrote:She was vilified by members of the Raider community, but much worse than by what you're claiming we've done on TB.

It depends on what you define as "the Raider community," because I don't recall her vilification by respectable raiders being "much worse" than being called "a piece of shit" as Twobagger was. Souls, for example, never called her anything like that. Gest did call her something pretty vile, and for that and many other reasons he was shunned by other raiders, pretty much universally. So I think you really have no ground to stand on here with this comparison.

Kuriko wrote:I'm not saying they should be swept under the rug or forgotten, what I'm saying is that OOC reactions to feeling betrayed and hurt and lied too shouldn't be remarked upon in an IC proposal or resolution. Other proposals have received far worse flak for the very same thing, but somehow since its XKI related OOC reactions should be remarked on in an IC resolution?

How are these "OOC reactions" that are out of bounds for criticism? So is that how this works, if someone switches sides you folks and you alone get to claim you're just OOCly venting and not have anyone publicly criticize your comments, but with everyone else it's fair game? Twobagger's alignment switch was an IC situation, and the comments made in regard to it were similarly IC. You don't get to call them OOC and out of bounds just because you don't want to see your region criticized. The fact is he was vilified, the clause is accurate, and there's no reason it shouldn't be included. Get over it.
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A Bloodred Moon
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Postby A Bloodred Moon » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:04 am

Kuriko wrote:I'm not saying they should be swept under the rug or forgotten, what I'm saying is that OOC reactions to feeling betrayed and hurt and lied too shouldn't be remarked upon in an IC proposal or resolution. Other proposals have received far worse flak for the very same thing, but somehow since its XKI related OOC reactions should be remarked on in an IC resolution?

Bingo. Why are there OOC reactions to an IC switch?
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Arkadia Universalis
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Postby Arkadia Universalis » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:05 am

Kuriko wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:I have in fact reacted poorly to certain situations, and I haven't gotten a pass for my reactions. I still hear about things I did years ago. You also brought up how Souls reacted to Nakari, and he still gets to hear about that, years later. So I guess the disconnect I'm not understanding is why you think 10000 Islanders are unique in that they should be able to have these outlandish negative reactions, but no one should publicly acknowledge them?

Sometimes when you say ridiculous things, people hear about it. You live with it and move on. There's no reason it should be swept under the rug uniquely for 10000 Islanders, just because you don't like that these things were said or you don't like that people know about them. That's frankly just tough luck.

I'm not saying they should be swept under the rug or forgotten, what I'm saying is that OOC reactions to feeling betrayed and hurt and lied too shouldn't be remarked upon in an IC proposal or resolution. Other proposals have received far worse flak for the very same thing, but somehow since its XKI related OOC reactions should be remarked on in an IC resolution?


That seems like a rather disingenuous claim when many in XKI make no distinction between IC and OOC when it comes to raiding. Even so, it’s rather astounding that the argument you stand on is “but what about that other time???” as though someone else making the same mistakes your region did excludes either of you from being criticized for it.

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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:46 am

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Kuriko wrote:She was vilified by members of the Raider community, but much worse than by what you're claiming we've done on TB.

It depends on what you define as "the Raider community," because I don't recall her vilification by respectable raiders being "much worse" than being called "a piece of shit" as Twobagger was. Souls, for example, never called her anything like that. Gest did call her something pretty vile, and for that and many other reasons he was shunned by other raiders, pretty much universally. So I think you really have no ground to stand on here with this comparison.

Kuriko wrote:I'm not saying they should be swept under the rug or forgotten, what I'm saying is that OOC reactions to feeling betrayed and hurt and lied too shouldn't be remarked upon in an IC proposal or resolution. Other proposals have received far worse flak for the very same thing, but somehow since its XKI related OOC reactions should be remarked on in an IC resolution?

How are these "OOC reactions" that are out of bounds for criticism? So is that how this works, if someone switches sides you folks and you alone get to claim you're just OOCly venting and not have anyone publicly criticize your comments, but with everyone else it's fair game? Twobagger's alignment switch was an IC situation, and the comments made in regard to it were similarly IC. You don't get to call them OOC and out of bounds just because you don't want to see your region criticized. The fact is he was vilified, the clause is accurate, and there's no reason it shouldn't be included. Get over it.

I'm not saying they're out of bounds for criticism, do you see me saying that anywhere in my posts here? With your comment about IC/OOC reactions, are you now saying that reactions to feeling hurt and betrayed are now all considered IC even when they are indeed OOC? I didn't say the reactions are out of bounds, just that OOC reactions shouldn't be commented upon in an IC proposal. You're free to criticise our reactions and policies all you want, criticism is good and sometimes leads to betterment.

Odd you call out my choice of example and say it has no comparison, because you're literally saying that a few comments by a few individual raiders doesn't equal the whole group (horrible comments) whereas a few comments made by a few individual defenders equals all of XKI. The few does not equal the whole, as we all know. Sargon's comments may very well have been IC, but Hakke's were an OOC reaction when he felt that Twobagger valued their friendship at nothing and it had nothing to do with R/D.

A Bloodred Moon wrote:
Kuriko wrote:I'm not saying they should be swept under the rug or forgotten, what I'm saying is that OOC reactions to feeling betrayed and hurt and lied too shouldn't be remarked upon in an IC proposal or resolution. Other proposals have received far worse flak for the very same thing, but somehow since its XKI related OOC reactions should be remarked on in an IC resolution?

Bingo. Why are there OOC reactions to an IC switch?

Because invariably it happens when people find out they've been lied too?

Arkadia Universalis wrote:
Kuriko wrote:I'm not saying they should be swept under the rug or forgotten, what I'm saying is that OOC reactions to feeling betrayed and hurt and lied too shouldn't be remarked upon in an IC proposal or resolution. Other proposals have received far worse flak for the very same thing, but somehow since its XKI related OOC reactions should be remarked on in an IC resolution?


That seems like a rather disingenuous claim when many in XKI make no distinction between IC and OOC when it comes to raiding. Even so, it’s rather astounding that the argument you stand on is “but what about that other time???” as though someone else making the same mistakes your region did excludes either of you from being criticized for it.

I can't make comments regarding others in my region, and you're very well aware I myself don't subscribe to the extreme extremist defender viewpoint Ark. I'm not saying anyone should be excused from criticism, I was using it as an example that it happens on both sides of the aisle and that we are not unique in our reactions.
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Hakketomat
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Postby Hakketomat » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:56 am

Jakker City wrote:
And then, Hakketomat, a member of TITO Command, went after Twobagger in the Rejected Realms discord server; referring to him as "by definition a piece of shit."


While I do not dispute this, it had absolutely nothing to do with any extreme views held by my or anyone else in 10000 Islands as you claim in your draft. This was purely the nature of Twobagger's switch. As pointed out in this thread, not a lot of notice was given to anyone in TITO Command or 10000 Islands government officials.
In the same channel as you are referring to (TRR's discord server), I made that clear. I told Twobagger the following: "It could have gone so much differently, TB. Instead you decided to make it public on the forums. You never tried to talk about how you felt about being in TITO... I have people whom I consider to be friends even though they aren't on my side in this game"

It was a complete surprise that took place after a rather long period of hardship for me in RL during which I had seen my grandmother fight for her life until the very end. In fact, Twobagger announced his switch two days after my grandmother died. Though, I did not announce all details of my ongoing in RL except that my grandmother was nearing her end, emotions were running high inside me. I can't blame Twobagger for this, of course. That is all on me. However, what happened in the TRR server was that someone was telling me that Twobagger is a great person. I could not let that stand unchallenged. Traces of what I felt back when Twobagger announced his switch came back again. I always enjoyed Twobagger's company but felt that I was worth nothing to him when he chose to embarrass me and 10000 Islands.

What happened in the TRR discord server was never about sides of R/D. It was simply feelings of betrayal. Has Twobagger earned his various awards as a defender? Yes. Is Twobagger free to play NationStates as he desires? Yes. Was it appropriate of me to call Twobagger a "piece of shit"? As harsh as those words are, those are the words that I have felt about him at the time he declared his switch and when someone told me he is great. However, it is not because he is a raider. There is a good chance that when time passes by, his decision to switch sides so abruptly will be water under the bridge. I will see him as "just another raider". Nothing to hate. I have from time to time had friendly conversations with raiders through private channels and will continue to do so.

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Jakker City
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Postby Jakker City » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:12 pm

Hakketomat wrote:
Jakker City wrote:
And then, Hakketomat, a member of TITO Command, went after Twobagger in the Rejected Realms discord server; referring to him as "by definition a piece of shit."


While I do not dispute this, it had absolutely nothing to do with any extreme views held by my or anyone else in 10000 Islands as you claim in your draft. This was purely the nature of Twobagger's switch. As pointed out in this thread, not a lot of notice was given to anyone in TITO Command or 10000 Islands government officials.
In the same channel as you are referring to (TRR's discord server), I made that clear. I told Twobagger the following: "It could have gone so much differently, TB. Instead you decided to make it public on the forums. You never tried to talk about how you felt about being in TITO... I have people whom I consider to be friends even though they aren't on my side in this game"

It was a complete surprise that took place after a rather long period of hardship for me in RL during which I had seen my grandmother fight for her life until the very end. In fact, Twobagger announced his switch two days after my grandmother died. Though, I did not announce all details of my ongoing in RL except that my grandmother was nearing her end, emotions were running high inside me. I can't blame Twobagger for this, of course. That is all on me. However, what happened in the TRR server was that someone was telling me that Twobagger is a great person. I could not let that stand unchallenged. Traces of what I felt back when Twobagger announced his switch came back again. I always enjoyed Twobagger's company but felt that I was worth nothing to him when he chose to embarrass me and 10000 Islands.

What happened in the TRR discord server was never about sides of R/D. It was simply feelings of betrayal. Has Twobagger earned his various awards as a defender? Yes. Is Twobagger free to play NationStates as he desires? Yes. Was it appropriate of me to call Twobagger a "piece of shit"? As harsh as those words are, those are the words that I have felt about him at the time he declared his switch and when someone told me he is great. However, it is not because he is a raider. There is a good chance that when time passes by, his decision to switch sides so abruptly will be water under the bridge. I will see him as "just another raider". Nothing to hate. I have from time to time had friendly conversations with raiders through private channels and will continue to do so.


And I get that dealing with a sudden change can be hard. I am also sorry that you had to deal with RL issues. That's a bummer for sure and I hope your family the best. But it feels like what you and Kuriko are indirectly referencing is a cultural stance in XKI that produces these extreme views. I know for a fact that there are members of XKI who have even stronger views against raiding. My point is that while I referenced specific comments that were made, I think it makes sense to not just treat them in a vacuum. Maybe he didn't feel like his voice would be heard if he expressed how he felt? I cannot speak for Twobagger, but my point is that it took a lot for him to make the switch knowing the strong reaction that it would cause from XKI. This proposal commends him for not only doing what he wants, but also taking this treatment in stride without stooping to that level. The focus is his integrity and affirming the awesomeness of his accomplishments.
Last edited by Jakker City on Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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THX1138
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Postby THX1138 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:41 pm

All the other he said/she said aside, the idea presented in the text, that the target's personal decision to transition from defending to raiding had anything to do with where they resided, is absurd. In fact, this entire commendation reads like it was cobbled together in about 15 minutes, and designed as little more than a vehicle by which to childishly stir up conflict and bad blood.

Here's the summary of this commendation, as I interpret it: Target did some positive things once upon a time, but then decided to start being destructive instead, but that's XKI's fault because XKI doesn't support being destructive and they've been real meanies since. It's a rationale that's borderline, at best.

Last I checked, being an adult means taking responsibility for one's choices, and living with the consequences of those choices. One needn't look any further than the current at-vote to see the SC's overall view of raiding as it pertains to commendations. XKI's vote is only a small portion of that overall against vote, so trying to hang this all on a single region is again, absurd.

The target knowingly forfeited any right they may have had to being SC commended when they chose to start raiding regions. C'est la guerre.

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Jakker City
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Postby Jakker City » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:47 pm

THX1138 wrote:All the other he said/she said aside, the idea presented in the text, that the target's personal decision to transition from defending to raiding had anything to do with where they resided, is absurd. In fact, this entire commendation reads like it was cobbled together in about 15 minutes, and designed as little more than a vehicle by which to childishly stir up conflict and bad blood.

Here's the summary of this commendation, as I interpret it: Target did some positive things once upon a time, but then decided to start being destructive instead, but that's XKI's fault because XKI doesn't support being destructive and they've been real meanies since. It's a rationale that's borderline, at best.

Last I checked, being an adult means taking responsibility for one's choices, and living with the consequences of those choices. One needn't look any further than the current at-vote to see the SC's overall view of raiding as it pertains to commendations. XKI's vote is only a small portion of that overall against vote, so trying to hang this all on a single region is again, absurd.

The target knowingly forfeited any right they may have had to being SC commended when they chose to start raiding regions. C'est la guerre.


Your post does a better job of articulating many points I have been trying to make in regards to the value of this commendation, so thank you for that.
Last edited by Jakker City on Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A Bloodred Moon
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Postby A Bloodred Moon » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:57 pm

Kuriko wrote:Because invariably it happens when people find out they've been lied too?

...no? What exactly did Twobagger lie about? He switched, so what? Jay switched, and I wish him all the best. Do you see raiders declare every word they spoke rings hollow now?
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THX1138
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Postby THX1138 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:17 pm

Jakker City wrote:Your post does a better job of articulating many points I have been trying to make in regards to the value of this commendation, so thank you for that.

You think that my stating that the rationale you've used is borderline, is helping to make your case?
Tragic.

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Postby Praeceps » Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:24 pm

I regret asking now.

Thanks for the responses everyone. I'll give further feedback later when I have more time..
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Arkadia Universalis
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Postby Arkadia Universalis » Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:35 pm

Kuriko wrote:
~snipped because ridiculously long quote~

I can't make comments regarding others in my region, and you're very well aware I myself don't subscribe to the extreme extremist defender viewpoint Ark. I'm not saying anyone should be excused from criticism, I was using it as an example that it happens on both sides of the aisle and that we are not unique in our reactions.


I am very well aware of that, yes. As a point of fact, it is the primary reason that I am so disappointed that you are attempting to minimize and/or cover for the actions undertaken by fellow defenders. It would be much easier for you to simply acknowledge that twobagger was in fact vilified by several members of the XKI community, and leave the clause in. Because that is what happened. While examples of the more egregious vilification that have been provided have from a smaller number of XKIers, we both know that a larger portion of the region than “just a few defenders” have been behaving similarly. And as far as I am concerned, the alignment change *was* completely IC. Unless you can find me where Twobagger committed any OOC misdeed like doxxing or messing with XKI’s discord server, then this OOC outrage has no founding. Even if Twobagger had in any way inhibited TITO’s defending ability, which there is no evidence of as far as I’m aware, that would not be OOC.

Face it: XKI as a whole has a problem with being unable to reconcile IC alignment with OOC beliefs, and it is highly unhealthy. The SC is in no way obligated to bow to XKI’s overwhelmingly childish standards of what constitutes a genuine, OOC betrayal of the community. While anger at the alignment-switch *might* be justified to some, the vilification described in the resolution did in fact occur, and the author should in no way be discouraged from including it in their resolution.

Also, as far as your specific comment “I can't make comments regarding others in my region,” that is quite literally almost all of your contribution to this thread. In fact, it is essentially the basis of your entire argument.

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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:56 pm

Arkadia Universalis wrote:
Kuriko wrote:
~snipped because ridiculously long quote~

I can't make comments regarding others in my region, and you're very well aware I myself don't subscribe to the extreme extremist defender viewpoint Ark. I'm not saying anyone should be excused from criticism, I was using it as an example that it happens on both sides of the aisle and that we are not unique in our reactions.


I am very well aware of that, yes. As a point of fact, it is the primary reason that I am so disappointed that you are attempting to minimize and/or cover for the actions undertaken by fellow defenders. It would be much easier for you to simply acknowledge that twobagger was in fact vilified by several members of the XKI community, and leave the clause in. Because that is what happened. While examples of the more egregious vilification that have been provided have from a smaller number of XKIers, we both know that a larger portion of the region than “just a few defenders” have been behaving similarly. And as far as I am concerned, the alignment change *was* completely IC. Unless you can find me where Twobagger committed any OOC misdeed like doxxing or messing with XKI’s discord server, then this OOC outrage has no founding. Even if Twobagger had in any way inhibited TITO’s defending ability, which there is no evidence of as far as I’m aware, that would not be OOC.

Face it: XKI as a whole has a problem with being unable to reconcile IC alignment with OOC beliefs, and it is highly unhealthy. The SC is in no way obligated to bow to XKI’s overwhelmingly childish standards of what constitutes a genuine, OOC betrayal of the community. While anger at the alignment-switch *might* be justified to some, the vilification described in the resolution did in fact occur, and the author should in no way be discouraged from including it in their resolution.

Also, as far as your specific comment “I can't make comments regarding others in my region,” that is quite literally almost all of your contribution to this thread. In fact, it is essentially the basis of your entire argument.

I'm not attempting to minimalize or cover for anyone, do you see any point in my posts where I've denied what was said? No, you don't because I didn't. The Oxford Dictionary states the definition of Vilify as "​to say or write unpleasant things about somebody/something so that other people will have a low opinion of them". Sargon was expressing how he felt at finding out TB switched sides, not writing anything to make other people have a low opinion of TB. Hakke's response is explained above here.

Your use of the word vilify is not the correct use of the word. If you think it's vilification that's your prerogative and I can't change that. I'm not saying the SC is obligated to bow to something we ask, I was simply asking if that clause could be removed and then I got swamped by anti-XKI people arguing stuff. We, as a whole, do not have a problem with being unable to reconcile IC alignment with OOC beliefs which I told you. Believe it or not, the extreme defender view is a minority in XKI. Vocal, for sure, but a minority.

You know very well my "I can't make comments regarding others in my region" was made in specific correlation to who does and does not hold the extreme defender viewpoint. Others have tried discouraging things like this from being added in proposals, but because we're XKI and you and the author doesn't like us means our opinions don't matter? Thanks Ark, I'll remember that.
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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:00 pm

Continuing argument here is pointless and serves little purpose beyond arguing in circles. I've made my request, I've attempted to explain some things, and I've been barraged by anti-XKI people for it. If anyone has any questions you can reach out to me privately, but I will not be opposing this beyond the XKI clause or supporting it over all.
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Jakker City
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Postby Jakker City » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:06 pm

THX1138 wrote:
Jakker City wrote:Your post does a better job of articulating many points I have been trying to make in regards to the value of this commendation, so thank you for that.

You think that my stating that the rationale you've used is borderline, is helping to make your case?
Tragic.


Let me break it down for you:

The proposal foremost is to showcase many of Twobagger's contributions. The proposal argues that he has done a lot of great things and should be recognized. The proposal then highlights how he has been treated poorly by many in XKI due to their extreme views and he has shown integrity through the treatment. The proposal argues that this kind of maturity on both fronts is commendable.

You (as a member of XKI) come in with the extreme view that all of Twobagger's contributions are meaningless and void because of the switch. You argue that "being an adult means taking responsibility for one's choices, and living with the consequences of those choices." The proposal is literally saying that Twobagger is doing that. The consequences should not be to just treat the nominee like dirt and dismiss any good that they have done and continue to do in their handling of this situation. Simply because you and many in XKI are so willing to unfortunately throw away everything that Twobagger has accomplished is an opinion I really think is a bad place for the Security Council to go. The SC should be above that and should not stoop to your level.

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Visorax
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Postby Visorax » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:11 pm

"no commendations for traitors" - XKI

The treason is the most commendable thing here, though. Not many defenders realise that they are making a mistake by defending.
Last edited by Visorax on Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:17 pm

Wait, before I do bow out I just want to ask a couple of questions. Jakker, are you writing this commendation because Twobagger deserves it, or because he switched sides? Would you, as a member of the Council of Hawks and as a raider overall, write an SC commendation for another deserving defender other than Twobagger? Sorry I posted again, I just want to ask.
Last edited by Kuriko on Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Marxist Germany » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:21 pm

OOC: Escanaba has done much more than Twobagger yet there was strong opposition from raiders in the proposal thread, quite hypocritical.
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Jakker City
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Postby Jakker City » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:23 pm

Kuriko wrote:Wait, before I do bow out I just want to ask a couple of questions. Jakker, are you writing this commendation because Twobagger deserves it, or because he switched sides? Would you, as a member of the Council of Hawks and as a raider overall, write an SC commendation for another deserving defender other than Twobagger? Sorry I posted again, I just want to ask.


Thanks for the question. I am writing it because he deserves it. And sure, I support working to commend those who I think deserve it. I did Commend Strawberry Fields (also know as The Stalker) for their work in rebuilding after raids, stopping raids, and region building. Personally, I think it is hard for those who don't get to know and see deserving players' work firsthand be able to know or think to write a commendation. All of my SC proposals have been related to players that I have gotten to know personally. I honestly never heard of Twobagger until he made the switch. I'm not sure why he hasn't been commended already, but I am happy to recognize a player like him. While he does his work behind the scenes and without fanfare, he should be rewarded nonetheless.
Last edited by Jakker City on Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jakker City
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Postby Jakker City » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:26 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: Escanaba has done much more than Twobagger yet there was strong opposition from raiders in the proposal thread, quite hypocritical.


See this is what I am talking about. I literally have no idea who that is. I had to look up their name on the SC forum. And literally not a single raider posted in that thread other than padfootia who was a raider for a hot second before becoming a defender so not sure where you are coming up with this argument.

Also, wasn't it only recently that XKI even allowed their members to talk to raiders? lol It's not totally my fault for not knowing people there. Now, hopefully you all can see how loveable raiders are. :hug:
Last edited by Jakker City on Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:40 pm

Jakker City wrote:
Kuriko wrote:Wait, before I do bow out I just want to ask a couple of questions. Jakker, are you writing this commendation because Twobagger deserves it, or because he switched sides? Would you, as a member of the Council of Hawks and as a raider overall, write an SC commendation for another deserving defender other than Twobagger? Sorry I posted again, I just want to ask.


Thanks for the question. I am writing it because he deserves it. And sure, I support working to commend those who I think deserve it. I did Commend Strawberry Fields (also know as The Stalker) for their work in rebuilding after raids, stopping raids, and region building. Personally, I think it is hard for those who don't get to know and see deserving players' work firsthand be able to know or think to write a commendation. All of my SC proposals have been related to players that I have gotten to know personally. I honestly never heard of Twobagger until he made the switch. I'm not sure why he hasn't been commended already, but I am happy to recognize a player like him. While he does his work behind the scenes and without fanfare, he should be rewarded nonetheless.

So you're saying that if Twobagger never switched you never would have considered him for commending? Just to say, there probably was consideration at one point to commend him but it never went through. Who can tell? This proposal is far from considering all the work he's done in NS, and is extremely lacking. I'm sure you know plenty of defenders in this game, and as people have pointed out that many deserving defenders have not yet received acknowledgement. XKI recently received flak for commending our own people, but you're trying to commend TBH members and it seems people are fine with it.

A couple more questions:

Would you consider commending defenders such as Deadeye Jack, or Numero Captain? Why did you consider Twobagger over them? Who arguably have done much more in NS?
Last edited by Kuriko on Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Darcania
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Postby Darcania » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:42 pm

Frankly, if a single defender manages to get the attention of raiders that only supports the idea that they're well-known enough in the R/D sphere to meet at least that standard for Commendations, rather than unknown defenders pushed forward by their own.

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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:47 pm

Darcania wrote:Frankly, if a single defender manages to get the attention of raiders that only supports the idea that they're well-known enough in the R/D sphere to meet at least that standard for Commendations, rather than unknown defenders pushed forward by their own.

But that's the thing. Up until now Twobagger was hardly known in GP or outside XKI beyond defender awards he won in 2019, and if he hadn't opted to switch to raiding he probably wouldn't have been well known in the Raider sphere. So why him beyond the fact that he switched from possibly the most strict defender region (XKI) to the most feared raider military on NS (TBH)?
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Jakker City
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Postby Jakker City » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:49 pm

Kuriko wrote:
Jakker City wrote:
Thanks for the question. I am writing it because he deserves it. And sure, I support working to commend those who I think deserve it. I did Commend Strawberry Fields (also know as The Stalker) for their work in rebuilding after raids, stopping raids, and region building. Personally, I think it is hard for those who don't get to know and see deserving players' work firsthand be able to know or think to write a commendation. All of my SC proposals have been related to players that I have gotten to know personally. I honestly never heard of Twobagger until he made the switch. I'm not sure why he hasn't been commended already, but I am happy to recognize a player like him. While he does his work behind the scenes and without fanfare, he should be rewarded nonetheless.

So you're saying that if Twobagger never switched you never would have considered him for commending? Just to say, there probably was consideration at one point to commend him but it never went through. Who can tell? This proposal is far from considering all the work he's done in NS, and is extremely lacking. I'm sure you know plenty of defenders in this game, and as people have pointed out that many deserving defenders have not yet received acknowledgement. XKI recently received flak for commending our own people, but you're trying to commend TBH members and it seems people are fine with it.

A couple more questions:

Would you consider commending defenders such as Deadeye Jack, Numero Captain, or Karputsk? Why did you consider Twobagger over them? Who arguably have done much more in NS?


No, my point was that I would not have known of Twobagger's existence if he didn't switch and especially gotten to know his NS career in depth. As to your point about commending own people, COE hasn't been with TBH for years and Twobagger has only been a member for what a month? There are TBH ties, but many of their contributions that I am noting are outside of TBH.

I think you overestimate my knowledge of defenders :P I do know of the few you mentioned, but I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at here. There are many nations that probably are deserving of recognition by the SC and anyone is welcomed to try and write a proposal for them. I'm not writing proposals for the badge. I've passed a SC proposal before, so I'm not being like "Hmmm let me come up with a list of players who deserve to be commended." More so, I am just continuing to connect with people and thinking hey, you totally should be recognized by the SC so I am going to try writing something. I'm not sure why we are trying to take away from TB's contributions by saying that others have done more. If you or others think so, write a proposal for them lol

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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:53 pm

Jakker City wrote:
Kuriko wrote:So you're saying that if Twobagger never switched you never would have considered him for commending? Just to say, there probably was consideration at one point to commend him but it never went through. Who can tell? This proposal is far from considering all the work he's done in NS, and is extremely lacking. I'm sure you know plenty of defenders in this game, and as people have pointed out that many deserving defenders have not yet received acknowledgement. XKI recently received flak for commending our own people, but you're trying to commend TBH members and it seems people are fine with it.

A couple more questions:

Would you consider commending defenders such as Deadeye Jack, Numero Captain, or Karputsk? Why did you consider Twobagger over them? Who arguably have done much more in NS?


No, my point was that I would not have known of Twobagger's existence if he didn't switch and especially gotten to know his NS career in depth. As to your point about commending own people, COE hasn't been with TBH for years and Twobagger has only been a member for what a month? There are TBH ties, but many of their contributions that I am noting are outside of TBH.

I think you overestimate my knowledge of defenders :P I do know of the few you mentioned, but I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at here. There are many nations that probably are deserving of recognition by the SC and anyone is welcomed to try and write a proposal for them. I'm not writing proposals for the badge. I've passed a SC proposal before, so I'm not being like "Hmmm let me come up with a list of players who deserve to be commended." More so, I am just continuing to connect with people and thinking hey, you totally should be recognized by the SC so I am going to try writing something. I'm not sure why we are trying to take away from TB's contributions by saying that others have done more. If you or others think so, write a proposal for them lol

I don't write for the badge either, I write for the enjoyment of it. And because I write for the enjoyment of it I actively search for members of the community I think deserve commending or condemning. Plenty of proposals are in the works, but plenty more can be written.

Edit: Anyways, thanks for answering.
Last edited by Kuriko on Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Delegate of the 10000 Islands
LOVEWHOYOUARE~
Citizen of the 10000 Islands and The Rejected Realms

Former TITO Tactical Officer
Former Commander of TGW, UDSAF, and FORGE
Proud founder of The Hole To Hide In
Person behind the Regional Officer resignation button
Person behind the Offsite Chat tag and the Jump Point tag
WA Character limit increase to 5,000 characters

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