[DEFEATED] Commend Twobagger

[Varanius]

It is so wonderful watching the moral paragon of existence, defenders of course, try to stifle an effort to recognize a nation who spent years trying to further their cause. Great showing, guys.

[Comfed]

I don't understand why anyone has bothered to argue the detail of this commendation. It is a blatantly bad faith and trollish commendation, and it speaks volumes about the sad state of GP and the Security Council. The dishonesty in portraying a turncoat raider to the public as an active and commendable defender is just gross.

Oh sorry, just because he changed his R/D ideology means that he’s completely and irreparably evil and it negates his past actions?

Those regions voting in favor of this, who hadn't already long ago revealed themselves as perfectly willing to go all in on bad faith, should be ashamed of themselves. Either they foolishly allowed themselves to be tricked, or they are now revealing they've jumped onto the train too.

Yes, because they definitely don’t have a forum vote and they’re all morally corrupt regions.

[The Python]

Against since raiders commending other raiders for having an earlier defender history is in a way dishonest.

[Varanius]

Against since raiders commending other raiders for having an earlier defender history is in a way dishonest.

No, it’s not. But thanks.

[Penguin Dictators]

While I do respect the views of XKI and others on this as I'm also more of a Defender mindset, I also know and respect TB and appreciate his accomplishments. Is this an attempt at trolling XKI? It's very possible, I don't know personally because I tend to stay out of the petty schoolyard stuff that happens behind the scenes in these C&Cs.

But looking at it simply from the viewpoint of what I know about TB personally from my experiences with him, I'm in favor of this. I don't care that he switched, and for anyone who got hurt by this alignment switch or how he did it, you have my condolences.

In the end, this is just another game, and I do think he's just as worthy as other members mentioned for a commend. Are there others more deserving? Absolutely, and I think they need proposals written up now if you feel that way. Does that make TB any less worthy just because he's getting one now? No, it doesn't. They'll get theirs in time, he's just getting his now, and that's okay.

But I will say I'm not in favor with the IC&OOC mix I keep seeing pop up. TB switched alignments...big whoop. The comments trashing on his character, calling him a turncoat traitor, and talking like anything good and genuine about him was a lie because of him switching GP sides is both laughable and sad. This is a game just like any other, not real life. If someone decides they want to try the other side of gaming a bit, it doesn't make them a bad or evil person unless they get into the legit bad aspects such as forum destruction...which are normally pretty universally panned.

But treating an alignment switch as someone being a legit Benedict Arnold is a bit petty and silly when we're talking about a game.

[Marxist Germany]

While I do respect the views of XKI and others on this as I'm also more of a Defender mindset, I also know and respect TB and appreciate his accomplishments. Is this an attempt at trolling XKI? It's very possible, I don't know personally because I tend to stay out of the petty schoolyard stuff that happens behind the scenes in these C&Cs.

OOC: It is; this was drafted after TB defected to TBH and had exposed months of being secretly a member of TBH despite having a position of leadership in TITO, potentially undermining our defending efforts.

[Numero Capitan]

While I do respect the views of XKI and others on this as I'm also more of a Defender mindset, I also know and respect TB and appreciate his accomplishments. Is this an attempt at trolling XKI? It's very possible, I don't know personally because I tend to stay out of the petty schoolyard stuff that happens behind the scenes in these C&Cs.

OOC: It is; this was drafted after TB defected to TBH and had exposed months of being secretly a member of TBH despite having a position of leadership in TITO, potentially undermining our defending efforts.

Nevertheless, it is a fairly accurate account of his involvement in XKI and should be judged on the merits of the commendee and not the motivations of the author.

[Penguin Dictators]

While I do respect the views of XKI and others on this as I'm also more of a Defender mindset, I also know and respect TB and appreciate his accomplishments. Is this an attempt at trolling XKI? It's very possible, I don't know personally because I tend to stay out of the petty schoolyard stuff that happens behind the scenes in these C&Cs.

OOC: It is; this was drafted after TB defected to TBH and had exposed months of being secretly a member of TBH despite having a position of leadership in TITO, potentially undermining our defending efforts.

Yes I know this, I made sure to get up to speed on everything before posting. But to me that doesn't erase the fact that TB is still worthy at least in my opinion of a commend.

Especially since nowhere in this current one at vote does it even have the same tone as the original draft. The bits criticizing 10KI are gone, and it talks more about what he's actually done. Regardless if the original intent was to troll 10KI or not, the resolution at vote now focuses on what it should, which is what he's done in his time for NS to put him up for a commend. So continuing to talk about it being troll-y and how this is a stick-it-to-10KI type of thing just seems a bit silly when if anything it talks more about how his time in 10KI was helpful and positively beneficial for him as a player and reaching where he has currently.

[LollerLand]

This is nicely written Jakker, and TB is a deserving nominee as far as I am aware.

[Sandaoguo]

I don't understand why anyone has bothered to argue the detail of this commendation. It is a blatantly bad faith and trollish commendation, and it speaks volumes about the sad state of GP and the Security Council. The dishonesty in portraying a turncoat raider to the public as an active and commendable defender is just gross.

Oh sorry, just because he changed his R/D ideology means that he’s completely and irreparably evil and it negates his past actions?

Yes, actions have consequences. If you want to be lauded for being such a great defender, then you shouldn’t have become a turncoat and gone to raiding.

[Daytime to Night]

Twobagger made positive contributions to 10000 Islands and defending but so have hundreds of others.

I would say if that there are players who have made a similar level of impact that Twobagger has, then it would be great to see proposals written about them for others to learn about those contributions.

No, because they don't merit a commendation.

[Lord Dominator]

While I do respect the views of XKI and others on this as I'm also more of a Defender mindset, I also know and respect TB and appreciate his accomplishments. Is this an attempt at trolling XKI? It's very possible, I don't know personally because I tend to stay out of the petty schoolyard stuff that happens behind the scenes in these C&Cs.

OOC: It is; this was drafted after TB defected to TBH and had exposed months of being secretly a member of TBH despite having a position of leadership in TITO, potentially undermining our defending efforts.

TB has never told us squat about internal defending stuff, nor to my knowledge did they ever do anything untoward to defending efforts in their time doing both.

[Varanius]

OOC: It is; this was drafted after TB defected to TBH and had exposed months of being secretly a member of TBH despite having a position of leadership in TITO, potentially undermining our defending efforts.

TB has never told us squat about internal defending stuff, nor to my knowledge did they ever do anything untoward to defending efforts in their time doing both.

Yeah, but why would they put in the effort to be factually accurate when misleading everyone about reality is so much more convincing?

[Penguin Dictators]

TB has never told us squat about internal defending stuff, nor to my knowledge did they ever do anything untoward to defending efforts in their time doing both.

Yeah, but why would they put in the effort to be factually accurate when misleading everyone about reality is so much more convincing?

tbh, gameplay alignment switching was kind of a lose/lose situation for him regardless of when he decided to reveal he'd switched sides. Even if he revealed his shift earlier on instead of waiting a bit to say that he switched, results would have been the same. He would have still been banned from 10KI because of their no-raider stance while his war records would have still been scrubbed, people there still would have been angry/upset and had some choice words/insults about his "betrayal", and there would have still been accusations that he was a raider before that and had the gall to still be in a high ranking TITO position and all that jazz.

Do I agree with him staying on for, what was it, 3 months after he'd decided to try out the other side? No, because he knows 10KI's policies, and if they found out before he'd made it completely known then it could have gone over probably a bit worse than it did. Do I think he had any ulterior motives for doing so or think his efforts in this resolution should be degraded because he decided to switch sides? No I don't. I think this is purely just a case of him doing defending for so long that he just wanted to see what it was like being on the other side for once...much like how some people enjoy playing the good/bad guy in a game like Infamous or Fable, and decide that they want to try being the opposite side for once just to see what it's like. It doesn't null out their past gameplay achievements/trophies in the slightest nor does it make them an actual awful/evil person just because they wanted to see what the other side was like...it just makes them curious to see what it's like is all and enjoy everything the game has to offer.

People calling him a traitor and shutting any idea of a commend for years of service just because of a recent alignment shift really just need to take a step back and again, remember that this is a game, not real life. He's not going to go offline and start breaking into your houses and pissing in your cereal in the morning, and more seriously I don't imagine he's going to start getting into the actual online harmful stuff such as forum/discord destruction nor do I imagine he supports it. Just because you may decide to dig yourself deep into one side of the game doesn't automatically make it a bad choice for someone to want to try the other side of the game, nor does it automatically null their accomplishments from that one side or make them an actual bad person.

[Tinhampton]

Libertanny (TEP), Narvatus (FNR), Stephenese Republic (Wintreath), and Karteria (NWI) have switched the combined total of just over 1,000 votes from FOR to AGAINST in the past twelve hours or so. What is going on?

[Honeydewistania]

Libertanny (TEP), Narvatus (FNR), Stephenese Republic (Wintreath), and Karteria (NWI) have switched the combined total of just over 1,000 votes from FOR to AGAINST in the past twelve hours or so. What is going on?

Check out TWP’s announcement in their GP thread

[Lord Dominator]

Libertanny (TEP), Narvatus (FNR), Stephenese Republic (Wintreath), and Karteria (NWI) have switched the combined total of just over 1,000 votes from FOR to AGAINST in the past twelve hours or so. What is going on?

Check out TWP’s announcement in their GP thread

That'd be TSP, not TWP

[Theberstan]

Just gonna say, but twobagger sounds kinda phallic.

[Honeydewistania]

Check out TWP’s announcement in their GP thread

That'd be TSP, not TWP

Stupid fat fingers

[Tinhampton]

Regarding the TSP statement: If you had told me a few weeks ago that 10000 Islands would indirectly control the direction of 2,000 GCR delegate votes at some point in the near future, I would have laughed at you; if you had told me so now, especially on a closely-balanced resolution and on the sole apparent basis that two mid-ranking Black Hawks had unsuccessfully tried to sway TSP's vote in their direction, I would be angry and disappointed with XKI (and not with you at all). I will leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine which of these scenarios is closest to this one.

[Westinor]

That'd be TSP, not TWP

Stupid fat fingers

Don't image-shame your fingers, they look perfectly fine

[Penguin Dictators]

Libertanny (TEP), Narvatus (FNR), Stephenese Republic (Wintreath), and Karteria (NWI) have switched the combined total of just over 1,000 votes from FOR to AGAINST in the past twelve hours or so. What is going on?

Wintreath and 10KI are ally regions, so the delegate is following 10KI on this regardless of any others of us on the cabinet that may have chosen to vote For.

Also yeah, TSP released a dispatch (or edited it I should say) outlining it and going into detail as to why to vote against while pinging nations whose quotes in here they used...mostly TSP member responses of course on the For side.

[The Grand Imperial Reich]

While I am not deeply familiar with 10KI and the history of R/D, the amount of people who are so deeply entrenched in defending that they regard any raiders as bad and refuse to commend them, even if they are clearly deserving of it, is a just a bit sad. You're not morally superior because you play the good guy in a game, and the fact 10KI and their allies have significant influence over the Security Council, granting them the ability to shoot down commends for no other reason than "I'm mad butthurt", is quite frankly concerning.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

While I am not deeply familiar with 10KI and the history of R/D, the amount of people who are so deeply entrenched in defending that they regard any raiders as bad and refuse to commend them, even if they are clearly deserving of it, is a just a bit sad. You're not morally superior because you play the good guy in a game, and the fact 10KI and their allies have significant influence over the Security Council, granting them the ability to shoot down commends for no other reason than "I'm mad butthurt", is quite frankly concerning.

In what world is voting against in-game proposals commending your in-game enemies a reasonable course of action? Like how dare they just be able to vote against a proposal they disagree with!?

My god the Security Council is so corrupt these days smh.

[Devi]

Wintreath and 10KI are ally regions, so the delegate is following 10KI on this regardless of any others of us on the cabinet that may have chosen to vote For.

just for clarity, are we saying that wintreath's wa vote is being determined by xki, rather than its own government and citizens?