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[DRAFT] repeal "liberate confederation corrupt dictators""

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:17 pm
by Kaboomlandia
So, the basis for this. This liberation has, to put it simply, failed at what it was supposed to do. The region didn't get raided and the CCD leaders mostly treat it as a giant joke.

However, the liberation has also served as a reason for CCD residents to keep popping up with biased proposals trying to repeal it. All of these repeals are based on nothing but propaganda and lies and give them needless attention. The goal of this repeal is to serve as a simple, low-attention-giving proposal that just states the facts - that this liberation didn't work and is just making them louder - and repeal it so they can't use it as a talking point anymore. I don't even mention them by name in this proposal - don't want them getting more attention beyond the title.

TL;DR: maybe if we kill it with a repeal written by a non-affiliated member the resident authors can't spew endless lies and draw attention.

Repeal "Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators"

Category: Repeal | Target: SC #263 | Proposed by: Kaboomlandia


The Security Council,

Acknowledging the goal of Security Council Resolution #263 to put the target region on notice for their wrongdoing and to provide a safety net for the chance to overthrow the region if the founder were ever to cease to exist,

Realizing, however, that no military operation against the region has been attempted in the 17 months since the passing of the original liberation,

Aware that even if the target region were to someday become a viable raid target via the founder ceasing to exist, it would still require an impossibly large military operation stretching over weeks or months to take down due to the multiple entrenched high-influence regional officers,

Noting that between this region and the three other regions with founders that were liberated in 2018, not a single one of the resolutions achieved its goals,

Pointing out that the goal of SC #263 to provide a "warning" to the target region has largely failed, as the region's leadership mostly treats the resolution as a badge of honour for their doings,

Annoyed that several attempts have been made by residents of the target region themselves to repeal the liberation, which all are extremely misleading to paint themselves in a better light,

Wishing to take away the target region's ability to utilize their false statements through repeal attempts of this proposal by passing one that doesn't give them the attention or ability to use false arguments to sway voters to their side,

Hereby repeals SC #263.


Discuss!

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:29 pm
by Pangurstan
They should either be condemned or liberated, and they would treat a condemnation like a bigger joke, so the government of Pangurstan opposes this legislation

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:43 pm
by Boda
Liberation repeals for CCD will not pass, period. Please stop.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:46 pm
by Tinhampton
Unequivocally FOR, if only because of how truthful the WISHING clause happens to be ;P

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:50 pm
by Lord Dominator
I can stand this argument at least, though not particularly in favor or against generally.

Don't think it'll pass, but it's good at least.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:01 pm
by Honeydewistania
Boda wrote:Liberation repeals for CCD will not pass, period. Please stop.

Kaboom land is on the contrary is actually a respected and writes repeals for the fact that it’s utterly useless, rather than the belief CCD have reformed

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:11 pm
by Kaboomlandia
Honeydewistania wrote:
Boda wrote:Liberation repeals for CCD will not pass, period. Please stop.

Kaboom land is on the contrary is actually a respected and writes repeals for the fact that it’s utterly useless, rather than the belief CCD have reformed

This.

I explained some of my reasoning earlier on the GP Discord. Almost every repeal attempt so far of this resolution has been an inside job. Leaving it up allows people from the CCD to continue to write and submit repeal attempts for it, which while annoying, do give them a lot of attention and publicity, as well as allowing them to dictate the narrative of the situation.

The aim of this particular repeal is to kill this liberation with a resolution that gets rid of the liberation while giving them as little ink as possible (they're not mentioned by name in the proposal outside the title, which I sadly couldn't avoid) and without including any of CCD's false claims that they've reformed. While CCD can still write their self-serving proposals, if this is repealed they'll have to do so via commendations, which are outlandish enough that nobody will actually believe their arguments, which is a possibility if they write a repeal for this liberation themselves.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:01 am
by Bowzin
I'd rather keep it in the rare event Joco CTEs we can quickly react without being blocked by a password, to be honest...

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:07 am
by Kaboomlandia
Bowzin wrote:I'd rather keep it in the rare event Joco CTEs we can quickly react without being blocked by a password, to be honest...

There’s no quick reaction to be had. Even if the founder CTEs, it would take months of constant raids with dozens of updaters every time to drain enough influence to not get banjected every time, and they’d probably be mobilizing reinforcements the entire time. The backup delegate has like 130,000 influence and 130 endorsements or so. Even if enough updaters hit to take the delegacy, they would be swiftly banjected without much influence drain. I ran the numbers the last time this was brought up, and it’s not pretty.

Raiding this region was always a pipe dream, but now it’s an impenetrable fortress wrapped in kryptonite.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:08 am
by South Reinkalistan
Bowzin wrote:I'd rather keep it in the rare event Joco CTEs we can quickly react without being blocked by a password, to be honest...

OOC: Hmmm...
Jocospor wrote:Even if I didn't enjoy NationStates, hatred will be what keeps the Confederation alive. When (/if) I eventually give up this game, I will absolutely make sure Jocospor doesn't CTE.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:10 am
by Kaboomlandia
South Reinkalistan wrote:
Bowzin wrote:I'd rather keep it in the rare event Joco CTEs we can quickly react without being blocked by a password, to be honest...

OOC: Hmmm...
Jocospor wrote:Even if I didn't enjoy NationStates, hatred will be what keeps the Confederation alive. When (/if) I eventually give up this game, I will absolutely make sure Jocospor doesn't CTE.

Bowzin was clearly talking about if Joc were to be DEATed. A natural CTE just wont happen, and Joc has made that clear in the past.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:13 am
by South Reinkalistan
Kaboomlandia wrote:
South Reinkalistan wrote:OOC: Hmmm...

Bowzin was clearly talking about if Joc were to be DEATed. A natural CTE just wont happen, and Joc has made that clear in the past.

OOC: Were I to be completely honest, I genuinely doubt Joco would get DEATed anytime soon.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:16 am
by Wayneactia
Kaboomlandia wrote:
Bowzin wrote:I'd rather keep it in the rare event Joco CTEs we can quickly react without being blocked by a password, to be honest...

There’s no quick reaction to be had. Even if the founder CTEs, it would take months of constant raids with dozens of updaters every time to drain enough influence to not get banjected every time, and they’d probably be mobilizing reinforcements the entire time. The backup delegate has like 130,000 influence and 130 endorsements or so. Even if enough updaters hit to take the delegacy, they would be swiftly banjected without much influence drain. I ran the numbers the last time this was brought up, and it’s not pretty.

Raiding this region was always a pipe dream, but now it’s an impenetrable fortress wrapped in kryptonite.

This, and more this. There is literally nothing that can be done to the region for months, even if Joco disappears. The liberation was a waste of time then, and it is a waste of time now. Repeal it, take away there badge and shove them into a small dark corner somewhere and forget about them.

South Reinkalistan wrote:
Bowzin wrote:I'd rather keep it in the rare event Joco CTEs we can quickly react without being blocked by a password, to be honest...

OOC: Hmmm...
Jocospor wrote:Even if I didn't enjoy NationStates, hatred will be what keeps the Confederation alive. When (/if) I eventually give up this game, I will absolutely make sure Jocospor doesn't CTE.


You know, there are times when it is better to exercise discretion and just sit back with you mouth closed and see what happens. This would be one of those times. >:(

South Reinkalistan wrote:
Kaboomlandia wrote:Bowzin was clearly talking about if Joc were to be DEATed. A natural CTE just wont happen, and Joc has made that clear in the past.

OOC: Were I to be completely honest, I genuinely doubt Joco would get DEATed anytime soon.


Yes, because your YEARS of experience in the game allow you to make that assumption right?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:22 am
by South Reinkalistan
Wayneactia wrote:
South Reinkalistan wrote:OOC: Were I to be completely honest, I genuinely doubt Joco would get DEATed anytime soon.


Yes, because your YEARS of experience in the game allow you to make that assumption right?

OOC: God damn it, you had the chance to provide a genuine argument, but you had to go for the low blow. 10 months is more than enough time to learn what will invoke the wrath of the mods and what won't - I'm not that braindead, cmon now.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:27 am
by Wayneactia
South Reinkalistan wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:
Yes, because your YEARS of experience in the game allow you to make that assumption right?

OOC: God damn it, you had the chance to provide a genuine argument, but you had to go for the low blow. 10 months in-game is more than enough time to learn what will invoke the wrath of the mods and what won't - I'm not that braindead, cmon now.

What genuine argument? You don't have a clue as to what will and will not invoke the wrath of the mods as you have zero access to game side infractions and their reports. It ain't just forum shit that gets you DEAT'd. So instead of continuing to insert you two cents into subjects you have zero knowledge of, maybe you should sit back and watch how things are done for a while? Because every time you seem to post something, your credibility level seems to go down even more.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:36 am
by South Reinkalistan
Wayneactia wrote:
South Reinkalistan wrote:OOC: God damn it, you had the chance to provide a genuine argument, but you had to go for the low blow. 10 months in-game is more than enough time to learn what will invoke the wrath of the mods and what won't - I'm not that braindead, cmon now.

What genuine argument? You don't have a clue as to what will and will not invoke the wrath of the mods as you have zero access to game side infractions and their reports. It ain't just forum shit that gets you DEAT'd. So instead of continuing to insert you two cents into subjects you have zero knowledge of, maybe you should sit back and watch how things are done for a while? Because every time you seem to post something, your credibility level seems to go down even more.

OOC: I don't need to see game-side infractions to read the rules and see Joco hasn't broken them (recently). It's a personal judgement. To say I have no knowledge of this because I'm 'new' compared to you is, to be frank, childish. Because, Wayne, I've sat back for a while and watched the NSGP and SC forums before I started posting somewhat recently, and from what I saw during that period, it's rather rich for you to talk about 'two cents' and 'credibility' with your record. Now let's stop prolonging this petty, ad hominem tangent, and get back to the proposal.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:40 am
by Boda
South Reinkalistan wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:What genuine argument? You don't have a clue as to what will and will not invoke the wrath of the mods as you have zero access to game side infractions and their reports. It ain't just forum shit that gets you DEAT'd. So instead of continuing to insert you two cents into subjects you have zero knowledge of, maybe you should sit back and watch how things are done for a while? Because every time you seem to post something, your credibility level seems to go down even more.

OOC: I don't need to see game-side infractions to read the rules and see Joco hasn't broken them (recently). It's a personal judgement. To say I have no knowledge of this because I'm 'new' compared to you is, to be frank, childish. Because, Wayne, I've sat back for a while and watched the NSGP and SC forums before I started posting somewhat recently, and from what I saw during that period, it's rather rich for you to talk about 'two cents' and 'credibility' with your record. Now let's stop prolonging this petty, ad hominem tangent, and get back to the proposal.

Well I mean, is he wrong that newer nations have less experience?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:05 am
by Bormiar
Wavering support on this one. I've talked to some of the more sensible CCD members and ex-members, and many of them have told me that they first noticed/joined CCD because of the controversy on the forums. I'm also sick of seeing a lot of activity on this subforum, hoping for something interesting, and only seeing that a thread blew up because the thread mentioned CCD or the author was CCD or the author's dog's friend was CCD or the author's region had an embassy with CCD.

However, I doubt that the CCDers would quit the crap they put on the forum because they have one less thing on their checklist. Should we not be afraid of more "Commend Confederation of Corrupt Dictators" or "Commend Jocospor" spam?

Boda wrote:Well I mean, is he wrong that newer nations have less experience?


Yes. Population isn't a good measure of experience.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:31 am
by Wayneactia
Bormiar wrote: However, I doubt that the CCDers would quit the crap they put on the forum because they have one less thing on their checklist. Should we not be afraid of more "Commend Confederation of Corrupt Dictators" or "Commend Jocospor" spam?


We will get that anyway. Them being liberated hasn't slowed them down much anyway. The liberation was effectively an abuse of the liberation function. The CCD has just as much right to regional sovereignty as any other region, and liberating it was an affront to it. I don't defend the region or support it in any way, and would be the first to raid it, given the opportunity, but they haven't committed any transgressions against the international community (well there is crappy proposals being bought to the floor..), other than being fash and having embassies with fash regions. IMHO that is not enough to trounce their sovereignty. Continued weaponization of the liberation function will eventually cause people to stop voting for liberations, and that will be detrimental, especially if one is badly needed to defend a region.

That and only that reason is why I support a repeal. If that region died out tomorrow I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, let's just say that.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:03 am
by American Pere Housh
You guys do realize we embrace this Liberation as y'all can't do nothing to liberate us plus we're not fascist as we allow nations of all political stripes. We are a region of dictatorships and that is all.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:07 am
by Blood Wine
This proposal pisses off nazi's, so why repeal it, opposed

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:12 am
by Honeydewistania
Blood Wine wrote:This proposal pisses off nazi's, so why repeal it, opposed

It’s a confusing situation, some hate it and some embrace it. It’s weird

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:13 am
by American Pere Housh
Blood Wine wrote:This proposal pisses off nazi's, so why repeal it, opposed

"Ad hominem attacks won't work Mr. Ambassador. By the order of Her Majesty, Empress Isabella the First, I will defend my region. You know nothing of what our region does." Dr. Jonathan Delacroix

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:14 am
by Bormiar
I think they all just like the attention that comes from it and trying to repeal it.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:20 am
by Boda
American Pere Housh wrote:
Blood Wine wrote:This proposal pisses off nazi's, so why repeal it, opposed

"Ad hominem attacks won't work Mr. Ambassador. By the order of Her Majesty, Empress Isabella the First, I will defend my region. You know nothing of what our region does." Dr. Jonathan Delacroix

Is the ccd gov just making puppets to defend themselves now?