NATION

PASSWORD

Repeal "Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators" [DISC.]

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.

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Honeydewistania
Senator
 
Posts: 3875
Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Honeydewistania » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:08 pm

South Reinkalistan wrote:



The Security Council,

Acknowledging that the main basis for SC#263 is the audacious claim that the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators ("Confederation") is a region that openly embraces, promotes and harbours fascism;

Noting that this has been exploited by multiple institutions such as the Civil Defence Siren, which has taken active measures to slow the Confederation's growth;

Recognising that this has lead to the undue discrimination and persecution of Confederation member states by malicious parties;

Noting that this is due to public perception of the Confederation as fascist, mostly fuelled by the false claims of SC#263;

Refuting such blind rhetoric with the following factual and logical evidence:
  • The Confederation has had, for a significant period of time, a democratic body known as the Civil Congress;
  • Nations known to blatantly subscribe to hateful ideologies and express bigoted rhetoric, such as Dehlk and Electric America, have been forcefully removed from the region by Confederation authorities;
  • Confederation officials in the War Ministry under Russia Major have taken measures to remove fascist regimes where possible, including the coordinated military operation to depose South Reinkalistani fascist dictator Reķlen Maskestoff in favour of a socialist administration;
  • Multiple statements have been issued by Confederation leadership condemning all hateful ideologies;
Admitting that the Confederation has self-identified as fascist in the past;

Celebrating the fact that the Confederation now utterly rejects such notions of fascism, displaying that the nations of the Confederation have the development, reasoning and maturity to reform in such a manner;

Rejecting the notion proposed by SC#263 that something as petty as a region's embassies warrants condemnation by this esteemed body;

Appalled by the accusation that the Confederation will serve as a means of indoctrination for nations that join it;

Realising that with the Confederation possessing an executive founder, SC#263 serves little to no purpose other than a warning that is regarded with great jest by the leaders of the Confederation;

Hereby repeals SC#263 - "Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators"

This might be the worst serious proposal I’ve ever seen. Garbage cause, garbage content. Helping yourself only and your region. It’s also part of your badge hunt. I find hard to believe that slowing the growth of your region is bad for the the world, and discrimination of your region is due is because people like you just pull out this attention seeking bullcrap. For example, the guy earlier on in the thread is an example of what you all should behave like before asking for a repeal. You have a civic Congress, but it is voting to put critics of you on your register for enemies. Is persecuting critics democratic? Also, in character toppling of fascist regimes is not an excuse for your so called reform. I could install my own fascist government and dispose of it, should I get a commendation? Also, kicking our fascists is not significant. I’ve done it, many have. I find you rejecting the notion of embassies is horrible. You said yourself you have embassies with Nazi Europa, big shot actual nazis, because in character they are good, but you condemn them outside of that. This really shows your character and your region, you refuse to expel fascists because they do good to your community. Also your last sentence contradicts everything you say. You said CCD are good now, yet something they celebrate should be removed?

Nothing by you will pass, neither will this proposal. It is a dumpster fire that unites all of NationStates against you. You’ve really set the bar Low for your region and yourself.
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Morover
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Founded: Oct 14, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Morover » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:18 pm

OOC:

I was going to do this IC, but it's more trouble than it's worth. My first piece of feedback for you is this: Don't follow through with this. My second piece is to withdraw the submission, if you insist on drafting it. I've left critiques in red.

South Reinkalistan wrote:



The Security Council,

Acknowledging that the main basis for SC#263 is the audacious claim that the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators ("Confederation") is a region that openly embraces, promotes and harbours fascism; Not exactly true. Rather, the basis for the target text was to stop the spread of fascism and, more importantly, the misuse of the Security Council and the World Assembly at large. While the concerns regarding fascism specifically within the CCD was a large part of that, it's incorrect to say that it's the "main basis."

Noting that this has been exploited by multiple institutions such as the Civil Defence Siren, which has taken active measures to slow the Confederation's growth; What, exactly, has been exploited? The cries about "fascism bad!!"? Because I think that nations should know what they're getting into as they join the region. Regardless of the proclaimed OOC fascism, it's undeniable that IC fascism plays a rather large part within the Confederation, and I think you'll find that many (if not most) players looking to RP as an autocracy would prefer to not be amongst those who actively RP as fascist.

Recognising that this has lead to the undue discrimination and persecution of Confederation member states by malicious parties; In your opinion, is the institution of the Civil Defence Siren not the malicious party? It's unclear who these "malicious parties" you refer to are, and this is frankly filler. The region was created with the intent to be contrarian to the rest of the game (Or, at the very least, NSGP), which is all good and well - but you can't claim that the "persecution" or "discrimination" is undue - not by any means.

Noting that this is due to public perception of the Confederation as fascist, mostly fuelled by the false claims of SC#263; You say here that the target made "false claims," but you later say that the claims were correct at the time, and have since been remedied. You contradict yourself.

Refuting such blind rhetoric with the following factual and logical evidence: Is rhetoric not an important part of writing? To refute it with "factual and logical evidence" is short-sighted and ignorant of the benefits of rhetoric.
  • The Confederation has had, for a significant period of time, a democratic body known as the Civil Congress; The Civil Congress has been in effect for, what, a year now? That's not really a "significant period of time," in my eyes. Even if it had been, the Civil Congress (and correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a bit of time since my experience with the CCD's inner workings) was created as a commentary on the misworkings of the World Assembly, and a tool to get NSGP off their backs. It has no real power. It may be "democratic," but not in the places where it matters. It baffles me to use a notion created as a blatant criticism to the World Assembly in the attempt to show remorse for prior misdeeds. But maybe that's just me.
  • Nations known to blatantly subscribe to hateful ideologies and express bigoted rhetoric, such as Dehlk and Electric America, have been forcefully removed from the region by Confederation authorities; This is almost certainly in response to an OOC subscription to those ideologies, and as such would be a 4(a-b) rule violation, in my opinion. There is obviously minimal action taken against those who subscribe to hateful ideologies IC - to do so would go against the spirit of the region. Even being OOC, it's too little being done. If there's even a question of IC fascism being leaked OOC, it should be thoroughly investigated and action taken. To do otherwise is irresponsible.
  • Confederation officials in the War Ministry under Russia Major have taken measures to remove fascist regimes where possible, including the coordinated military operation to depose South Reinkalistani fascist dictator Reķlen Maskestoff in favour of a socialist administration; I'm not entirely opposed to talking about the IC operations of deposing fascist militaries, though it seems a bit odd that you mention the situation from within your own nation. I know you have the most knowledge about that particular circumstance, but you really outta avoid mentioning yourself in this draft. You're already pushing it, writing it about a region which you're distinctly a part of.
  • Multiple statements have been issued by Confederation leadership condemning all hateful ideologies; OOCly, perhaps. I sincerely doubt that the leadership of the CCD (with the exception of maybe Riakou, and Castelia I suppose) disavowed "hateful ideologies" IC - and thus this is a 4(b) violation imo. Additionally, the condemnation of hateful ideologies is not actually enough for a repeal - only action against these ideologies (which you cite, but fail to provide significant evidence or proof for)
Admitting that the Confederation has self-identified as fascist in the past; What? This is entirely contradictory towards the rest of the proposal.

Celebrating the fact that the Confederation now utterly rejects such notions of fascism, displaying that the nations of the Confederation have the development, reasoning and maturity to reform in such a manner; Even if this clause were true (which I don't entirely believe it is), it would make much more sense as a "Reasoning ... suggests that the provisions under which the target resolution was published are no longer valid, and thus need to be remedied;"

Rejecting the notion proposed by SC#263 that something as petty as a region's embassies warrants condemnation by this esteemed body; This is really asking for a lot, here. You already have the disadvantage in this situation, and "rejecting the notion" that embassies do not show the type of regions the region hosting the embassy associates with, thus showing an accurate representation of the hosting region is really pushing the line, and it's not something you'll accomplish.

Appalled by the accusation that the Confederation will serve as a means of indoctrination for nations that join it; "Appalled" is not the correct way to go about this. I'd much prefer a "Noting that the idea that the Confederation indoctrinates new nations is not entirely accurate, and wishing to dispel this thought;"

Realising that with the Confederation possessing an executive founder, SC#263 serves little to no purpose other than a warning that is regarded with great jest by the leaders of the Confederation; This is the only part of the repeal I agree with. I think symbolic liberations are pointless, and, given the right circumstances, I would support a repeal that expands on this. I may even write one myself, one day, if the Confederation can get it together. But that's a helluva circumstance. In order to be accepted by NSGP, the Supreme Council needs to start cracking down hardcore on those who take the RP too far, and they need to start interacting with the greater community in ways that has nothing to do with the Confederation. I've mentioned this before, but those with the power to redeem the Confederation lack the willpower to do so. I know that those leaders who I'm talking about will invariably read this, and I urge you to consider it. Y'all aren't stupid, stop acting like it. Xoriet wasn't joking when they said that what Imperial Germany said was the single most redeeming thing the Confederation has put out in a while. If I were you, I'd promote them to be the head of your PR department or whatever you call it.

Hereby repeals SC#263 - "Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators"


You're not a bad writer. Stop putting it towards futile causes.
Last edited by Morover on Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:30 pm

South Reinkalistan wrote:OOC: With the great support this has been getting, I've submitted the resolution! Let's all hope it passes :^)

People who submit while ignoring feedback tend not to do too well in the WA as far as authorship is concerned. Just saying.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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MineLegotia and Equestria
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Founded: Jul 22, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby MineLegotia and Equestria » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:48 pm

OOC:

Ah yes! My Favourite! NGSP-CCD Forum Trainwreck Simulator 2020!

Seriously we should just stop with this, NGSP will shoot it down. Plus, isn't this something we want? Joco revels in chaos, why should we abandon it?

Also, on the topic of us calling stuff "Anti-CCD". Well, it's kind of CCD, but it's an understandable response, but I agree with German, why have we stoop to such a level?

Plus, it's just a Liberation, even with what some people called the "inevitable CTE of Jocospor". Even then it just thickens the plot does it not? It makes the game even more intense!
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WayNeacTia
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Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:16 pm

Riakou wrote:Important disclaimer merely to notify nations that the words, and opinions expressed in this thread and proposal belong solely to the author, the author does not represent the Confederation, it’s membership or leadership in any official capacity.

Really? So I am not actually an enemy of the CCD and subject to censure? That's a pity. :(
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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South Reinkalistan
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Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby South Reinkalistan » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:15 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Riakou wrote:Important disclaimer merely to notify nations that the words, and opinions expressed in this thread and proposal belong solely to the author, the author does not represent the Confederation, it’s membership or leadership in any official capacity.

Really? So I am not actually an enemy of the CCD and subject to censure? That's a pity. :(

OOC: In this thread. The Civil Congress ratified the act, meaning you're still an enemy :)
THE PEOPLE ETERNAL
" We will not bow to your dictation. We are free. We bled to be free.
Who are you to tell us what we may and may not do? We stopped being your slaves an era ago. "
South Reinkalistan is a massive, ecologically-diverse nation notable for its roving student militias and widespread hatred for the elderly.
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WayNeacTia
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Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:19 am

South Reinkalistan wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Really? So I am not actually an enemy of the CCD and subject to censure? That's a pity. :(

OOC: In this thread. The Civil Congress ratified the act, meaning you're still an enemy :)


I'll add it to the the resume then. It is sure to be an awesome pickup line with the ladies. :roll:
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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South Reinkalistan
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Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby South Reinkalistan » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:25 am

Wayneactia wrote:
South Reinkalistan wrote:OOC: In this thread. The Civil Congress ratified the act, meaning you're still an enemy :)


I'll add it to the the resume then. It is sure to be an awesome pickup line with the ladies. :roll:

OOC: "What's a Liberation like you doin' in a Region like this?"
THE PEOPLE ETERNAL
" We will not bow to your dictation. We are free. We bled to be free.
Who are you to tell us what we may and may not do? We stopped being your slaves an era ago. "
South Reinkalistan is a massive, ecologically-diverse nation notable for its roving student militias and widespread hatred for the elderly.
In the midst of a room-temperature cultural revolution that's lost its momentum, the Party carefully plans its next move.
As the brittle bones of fragile empires begin to crack beneath their own weight, history's symphony reaches crescendo pitch. The future is all but certain.

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Karelignia
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Posts: 38
Founded: May 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Karelignia » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:38 am

Kaboomlandia wrote:
South Reinkalistan wrote:OOC: With the great support this has been getting, I've submitted the resolution! Let's all hope it passes :^)

Did you even read the comments in this thread? Nobody is on your side.


Coughs
Karelignia - the Empire of the North
In the forests of Karelia-Savonia, there lies a beautiful land of frost and ice, governed by a steady hand.

Currently under the lawful administration of Imperiator Miska I
"Fight for what you think is right, even if everyone else is against you. That is determination."

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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:44 am

Karelignia wrote:
Kaboomlandia wrote:Did you even read the comments in this thread? Nobody is on your side.


Coughs

I don't see a comment by you that was made before that statement by Kaboomlandia, so you don't factor into it.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Boda
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Founded: Nov 14, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Boda » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:48 am

Karelignia wrote:
Kaboomlandia wrote:Did you even read the comments in this thread? Nobody is on your side.


Coughs

Please stop. You know what he meant to say.
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Karelignia
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Founded: May 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Karelignia » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:05 am

Boda wrote:
Karelignia wrote:
Coughs

Please stop. You know what he meant to say.


Well you did ask nicely, so alright. Just this time.
Karelignia - the Empire of the North
In the forests of Karelia-Savonia, there lies a beautiful land of frost and ice, governed by a steady hand.

Currently under the lawful administration of Imperiator Miska I
"Fight for what you think is right, even if everyone else is against you. That is determination."

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Overview || Anthem

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Tulenia
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Founded: Jul 21, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Tulenia » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:13 am

Tulenia is 100% for this
Tulenia is a type 5, level 0 tier 7 nation according to viewtopic.php?f=23&t=363018
We do not use NS Stats, the Population is 560,000,000 and the economy is 15 Trillion Tu$ in GDP (30 trillion american)
the Per capita is 130,000 per person on average
Tulenia is Slavic Romania, the name means People of Peace, ironic considering some things that involve war heh... well anyways i should state that Tulenia is willing to go to war with anyone! so if you want to have a round of punches just telegram me
GLORY TO TULENIA!

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2nd Imperial German Reich
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Founded: Jan 23, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby 2nd Imperial German Reich » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:30 am

South Reinkalistan wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Really? So I am not actually an enemy of the CCD and subject to censure? That's a pity. :(

OOC: In this thread. The Civil Congress ratified the act, meaning you're still an enemy :)

OOC: that’s assuming you or the Civil Congress has ever had the ability to speak on behalf of the region.

If I recall, that’s the job of my old Head of Political Communications, and the Supreme Council

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Blood Wine
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Ex-Nation

Postby Blood Wine » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:23 am

Last edited by Blood Wine on Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Karelignia
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Founded: May 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Karelignia » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:57 am

How about we all just shake hands and leave?
Karelignia - the Empire of the North
In the forests of Karelia-Savonia, there lies a beautiful land of frost and ice, governed by a steady hand.

Currently under the lawful administration of Imperiator Miska I
"Fight for what you think is right, even if everyone else is against you. That is determination."

Important Factbooks:
Overview || Anthem

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Marxist Germany
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Marxist Germany » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:24 pm

Author of GA#461, GA#470, GA#477, GA#481, GA#486 (co-author), and SC#295

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Numero Capitan
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Founded: Sep 27, 2007
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Numero Capitan » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:51 pm

At best CCD has moved from "openly embraces, promotes and harbours fascism" to "openly embraces and harbours fascism".

Despite numerous conversations around its approach, both Jocospor and its members have shown an unwillingness to continue to change for the better and an apathy towards any steps that might move them closer to a position that the majority might at least tolerate.

CCD hasn't done enough to warrant this repeal and frankly the nations that lead it are not interested in doing anything that might get them closer. Stop wasting our time until they reconsider that position.
Last edited by Numero Capitan on Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Karelignia
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Founded: May 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Karelignia » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:10 pm

I am against this too because I am against Rein.

EDIT: Alright everything good again, I am for this!
Last edited by Karelignia on Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Karelignia - the Empire of the North
In the forests of Karelia-Savonia, there lies a beautiful land of frost and ice, governed by a steady hand.

Currently under the lawful administration of Imperiator Miska I
"Fight for what you think is right, even if everyone else is against you. That is determination."

Important Factbooks:
Overview || Anthem

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:25 pm

It’s been pulled.
3 hours ago: South Reinkalistan withdrew a proposal from the WA Security Council titled "Repeal "Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators"".
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

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Hiram Land
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Postby Hiram Land » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:28 pm

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:It’s been pulled.
3 hours ago: South Reinkalistan withdrew a proposal from the WA Security Council titled "Repeal "Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators"".

Thank god. That bill wasn't worth the time and power of the WA.
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:31 pm

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:It’s been pulled.
3 hours ago: South Reinkalistan withdrew a proposal from the WA Security Council titled "Repeal "Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators"".

Good stuff.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Hiram Land
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Hiram Land » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:33 pm

Another troll bites the dust. Bill was removed, hurray. Now back to your regular NationStates programming! :D

Edit: I think I found out why he removed this one: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=479800
Last edited by Hiram Land on Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Blood Wine
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Founded: Jan 12, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Blood Wine » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:51 am



link it? didnt find it via search
Formerly known as Port Blood
Elke and Elba wrote:Well Mall, you want Haven? I'd want your Joint Systems Alliance badge, then.
Discoveria wrote:Port blood is a raider through and through. Honest.
Tim-Opolis wrote:The Salt Mines will be fueled for months by the tears of silly fascists.
Sedgistan wrote:Attempted threadjack on sandwiches and satanism removed.
[4:27 PM] Antigone: Port Blood = Gameplay Jesus
Former foreign Minister of gay
Current community leader in charge of foreign affairs of gay
ex corporal in The Black Hawks

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Bormiar
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Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bormiar » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:57 am

Blood Wine wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: Forgot mine own attempt


link it? didnt find it via search

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=472838
If you're looking for a thread someone made in a certain forum, search for "First Posts of Topics Only" by the person in the forum.

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