[DEFEATED] Commend 00000 A World Power

[Roavin]

Ok, I already apologized, no need to get so hostile. Calm down.

I could have said it a bit more calmly, fair, but there's something about "deliberately taking the less reputable answer (that turns out to just be thinly veiled advertising) because it happens to suits my argument" that really irks me.

Edit: viewtopic.php?p=16394954&sid=4ffe43d9b48be264a3b694b49e7ed9f9#p16394954

Privacy violation: Players on NationStates have a reasonable expectation that their privacy will be respected. It is not permitted to post or otherwise share another player's personally-identifying information (i.e. social media accounts, IP addresses, postal addresses, E-mail addresses, telephone numbers, or other real-world identifying information).

...yes? Not a mod, but just thinking logically, IP addresses are not to be shared but for the simple reason that they may (but not always do) provide a rough geographical location, and it should be up to each player to decide if they want to reveal any of that "openly".

[Bormiar]

Why are you still arguing about this? That rule only applies to the NS site.

[Lord Dominator]

Use of 'Internet Protocol addresses' by name would seem a R4 violation to me, in that I can't think of any reasonable way that can be used in reference to any nation or isn't speaking of the game as a game.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Use of 'Internet Protocol addresses' by name would seem a R4 violation to me, in that I can't think of any reasonable way that can be used in reference to any nation or isn't speaking of the game as a game.

I agree. It’s either a real world reference (4a) or a game reference (4c). Either way I think it makes the proposal illegal as it stands.

[Honeydewistania]

Safer to remove it, especially if more paranoid people vote against

[Syberis]

Privacy violation: Players on NationStates have a reasonable expectation that their privacy will be respected. It is not permitted to post or otherwise share another player's personally-identifying information (i.e. social media accounts, IP addresses, postal addresses, E-mail addresses, telephone numbers, or other real-world identifying information).

Okay, This is largely to cover the collective asses of NS as a whole. The rules listed don't apply to offsite property, including forums, and sharing of IP addresses has protected entire communities multiple times per year since it started becoming common practice.

Is the system ideal? Actually, yes, as we as a community don't have a shared administrative staff, but shared members of communities. Discussion between administrative staff of security concerns, including IP addresses of dangerous actors, is actually necessary. Does the system exist to help make sure people don't harm other people, and has done so dozens of times? Also Yes.

Even then, it's not really "Your" IP address. It's an easy way of referring to it, but it's much closer to "The IP Address you're using at the time." There's not a heck of a lot tying it to you except in very specific circumstances that a random user probably isn't running into. Legitimate users probably accumulate a few dozen IP addresses from normal use in a given year. Depending on the location, that number could be a few hundred.

For example, the best you could get from snagging my "Home IP address" is a four-town radius covering a couple hundred thousand people, and potentially the metropolis near me as well. It's actually less identifiable than knowing someone's first name with no other information.

[Numero Capitan]

I see no reason why that couldn’t be removed from the proposal, or substituted for more general terms about AWPs commitment to the regional security of innocent regions.

Thanks Sargon Reman for considering our region for a commendation and all your work on this. As a long-standing member of AWP I’m glad our regions legacy has sustained itself long enough to be considered for this more than a decade after the ‘height’ of our power. This is a proud moment for all those who have contributed to it (and there are many) and those from outside the region who have been an extension of our community over the years, regardless of the outcome of this proposal!

[Sargon Reman]

I see no reason why that couldn’t be removed from the proposal, or substituted for more general terms about AWPs commitment to the regional security of innocent regions.

Thanks Sargon Reman for considering our region for a commendation and all your work on this. As a long-standing member of AWP I’m glad our regions legacy has sustained itself long enough to be considered for this more than a decade after the ‘height’ of our power. This is a proud moment for all those who have contributed to it (and there are many) and those from outside the region who have been an extension of our community over the years, regardless of the outcome of this proposal!

The IP section has been removed from the proposal and I will try to substitute it with something else that is wonderful about AWP later today.

[Bormiar]

Maybe it keeps a dossier of “known foreign operatives and spies” along with their faces so they can be identified easily. Sure that’s movie logic but it holds verisimilitude with NS and makes sense.

[Sargon Reman]

Updated with additional subclause under "PRAISING":

- The infiltration of DEN, The Brotherhood of Blood, Lone Wolves United, Grand Central, The Black Hawks, The New Inquisition, The Black Riders, Commonwealth, New Folsom where intelligence agents substantially undermined organizational operations overwhelmingly to the benefit of the international community,

[Aclion]

Updated with additional subclause under "PRAISING":

- The infiltration of DEN, The Brotherhood of Blood, Lone Wolves United, Grand Central, The Black Hawks, The New Inquisition, The Black Riders, Commonwealth, New Folsom where intelligence agents substantially undermined organizational operations overwhelmingly to the benefit of the international community,

I suggest including something about why undermining those organisations is a good thing.

[Sargon Reman]

Added in the IMPRESSED clause. I will likely submit this soon after doing some more checks.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Apart from their efforts against the Lewis and Clark coup in The North Pacific, 00000 A World Power has been a thoroughly unremarkable region, barely a footnote in NationStates history. This looks like just more defender back-patting based pretty much exclusively on the fact the region is defender.

Absolutely opposed.

[Numero Capitan]

Apart from their efforts against the Lewis and Clark coup in The North Pacific, 00000 A World Power has been a thoroughly unremarkable region, barely a footnote in NationStates history. This looks like just more defender back-patting based pretty much exclusively on the fact the region is defender.

Absolutely opposed.

If we're so thoroughly unremarkable that even Mr Petulant can't avoid a caveat then we must be doing something right.

Very pleased to see that AWP has been considered for this nomination, but it's a shame this has only come when so many of the great nations who made AWP what it was in its heyday are not around to see it. It says something that the region with the noob-iest name in the game ever found a way to warrant consideration for a commendation - whether enough nations in 2020 think we are worthy is entirely up to them.

Also proud of the fact that AWP was its own entity that reached out to GCRs to support them and became a regular point of call (and in some cases a second home) for so many we treated as enemies on the battlefield - even for those who came to AWP to undermine us and our allies but found themselves a great community they wanted to stay part of.

[Wabbitslayah]

"- Creating and maintaining a library of over 10,000 unique Internet Protocol addresses for the purposes of border control that has been utilised by a wide range of regions across the world,"

Commend them for sharing people's IPs

Yeah, while I get how it can help security, IPs should be shared between admins on a case by case basis, ensuring the admin receiving the IP is trustworthy, and that there is a valid reason for the share...Not a fan of a giant library of people's IPs

EDIT: If Kuriko is right, then this is fine, but need clarification

You say that now, but that was then in an era where spying and infiltrating was the norm and people destroying forums was the norm. Gaining IPs was part of the game on all sides.

It's barely necessary now, except for usually blacklisted players. Then was a different era, and in AWP's case, stuff like that wasn't used for ill.

[Anime Daisuki]

Support 100%!

[Tinhampton]

Support 100%!

^^^ THIS.

For future reference, Sargon Reman has submitted this proposal.

[North East Somerset]

And did the 10,000 IP library, or the boasts of "iconic feats in intelligence" stop TNI Intelligence putting an Agent into 00000 AWP in late 2009, whilst they were supposedly at their height of their Might?

Just 2 weeks before the vanity raids on the Warzones this resolution appears to praise, on September 15, 2009, the nation of Wibblefeet was founded, by Lord Jet Black of TNI. This nation went on to serve in the FRA Cabinet for 8 terms, including as Intelligence Minister and Arch Chancellor, and passed vast amounts of intelligence from the defender world into my hands over a 4+ year period, whilst based in 00000 AWP.

So was 00000 AWP a centre of intelligence expertise, or was it the soft underbelly from which one could access the top eschelons of defender society?

The reality is 00000 AWP was always a relative backwater, which is why we chose it. And the mission was concluded and the Foundership & ROOT which had come into Jet Black's possession, safely handed back, without any dishonourable dealings ever haven taken place - in contrast to Numero's failed attempts to frame innocent citizens of TNI in 2009 in the hope we banned them.

I have no doubt 00000 AWP was a lovely little place and so on, but I'm sorry but this is defender backpatting at it's most indulgent - you the lost the right to claim accolades for 00000 AWP's work in the field of intelligence the second this was posted;
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=346730

*Drops mic

[Numero Capitan]

*Drops mic

I think you're talking about the guy who rose two ranks out of 25 in the Regional Defence Force in 6 years and then waited until I'd disappeared from the game to do anything in the FRA? (i.e. when we literally didn't care enough at that point to give our representative spot to anyone else)

The same guy who has been a valued part of our community to this day whilst TNI lies dead and password-locked?

Oh yeah, that was terrifying for us.

Did he ever tell you how empty the AWP intel forum was? Or ever see a single line of our IP library on there? Or did he ever even discover the existence of our second forum for senior members? Or any of the logs of a single significant conversation between the people that actually ran the region? That wasn't a tad suspicious to you?

I hope he enjoyed sending you all the thousands of spam posts and historical liberation discussions he had access to on the AWP forum.

He gained access to the same conversations that we willingly gave access to the likes of Moo-cows with Guns, Sorenity2, Great Bights Mum, Wolfeh from the Genesis Federation and a whole load of others we welcomed in regardless of whether they were a citizen. We always organised ourselves in a way that our forums were an irrelevant target for spies and Neasmyrna would and will never give the founder nation to anyone except real life friends and family. If your intelligence didn't enable you to see that, well, that isn't exactly our problem - but keep on with patting your own back for something you didn't do.

The self-deception is lovely though Thanks for stopping by

[North East Somerset]

Classic obfuscation. I never said he took anything from AWP, or had access to any of your supposedly fantastic intel. He didn't, and frankly that wasn't the point, as all the names you have dropped weren't the target.

Indeed AWP was largely irrelevant by even mid 2010, only a fraction of the size of Europeia or TNI around then, even though this resolution highlights 2008-10 as the zenith of "one of the largest regions in the world". Very aptly named then, must have chosen that knowing what was to come eh. Indeed, one of the largest regions in the world to have not quite made it to 300 nations, would maybe be a more accurate description.

What 00000 AWP was though, if not many of the things this resolution claims, was a ticket to the highest offices in the FRA, and access to all its intelligence activities. Or was that all just stage managed for my benefit? *chuckles*

It's a fine shame you now admit you "literally didn't care enough at that point" to stop a spy from using your region to rise to the highest levels in defender society in 2011-15, but you still want to be remembered now for your share in historical defender glory. I guess you can have your cake and eat it if your a defender. Cheers to that!

[Numero Capitan]

So AWP doesn’t deserve recognition because when none of our leadership were even playing the game your low level spy used the region as a platform to spy on someone else?

That makes no sense, but it was never supposed to because you’re only here to puff out your own chest and stroke your own ego entirely on the basis of someone else’s accomplishments. That only says something about you.

This ain’t my proposal and, whilst it’s nice for my region to be thought of for commendation, if it doesn’t pass I really won’t lose any sleep over it. I love how much the mention of a region - that only ever sought to be a fun, helpful and welcoming community for anyone who stopped by - has the power to wind certain people up this much though.

[North East Somerset]

"your low level spy used the region as a platform to spy on someone else" - not just anyone else. The FRA. Of which AWP was a member of, and of which you directly attributed intel victories to. I particularly liked how you titled one thread on your forums "AWP Intel Victory" but then signed off the actual Press Release; "Numero Capitan, and all of the members of the fabulous FRA Intelligence network."

Sounds like they were practically interchangeable when it suited (your career in the FRA), but now its dead, its just "someone else". Someone irrelevant. *brushes FRA under carpet* Was never a big deal... come on - if you spin any more, you might just take off!

And no you weren't all retired, we're talking about a mission that started taking place parallel to when this resolution says AWP was at its zenith, unless you want to shorten that in a bit from 2008-10, to say just 2008, but that doesn't sound so impressive does it if this incredible powerful region was only remotely significant for about a year?

[Numero Capitan]

snip

Tl;dr A condemned nation wants to prevent the commendation of a region who sought to stop them destroying innocent regions.

My loyalties are in my signature and always have been

[North East Somerset]

snip

Tl;dr A condemned nation wants to prevent the commendation of a region who sought to stop them destroying innocent regions.

Goooood...the moralism is swelling in you now. Use it, I am unarmed. Strike me down with it!

Use your defender feelings. Let the moralism flow through you.

(my point is, you've run out of relevant specific arguments so you resort to defender moralism to discredit my position, ad hominem. Now thats old school. Just an observation, not intended to provoke anything!)

[People of Phoenix]

Absolutely opposed.

*Drops mic

And with that I will agree with the proposal.