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[AT VOTE] Commend 00000 A World Power

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.
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Sargon Reman
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[AT VOTE] Commend 00000 A World Power

Postby Sargon Reman » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:08 pm

The Security Council,

RECOGNIZING the region of 00000 A World Power for stunning long-term contributions to international peace and stability,

AWARE that 00000 A World Power chose early on to utilize its influence as one of the largest regions in the world, notably from 2008 to 2010, in directing its military efforts towards "Peace Through Defense", it's regional motto,

HAILING that the Regional Defense Force (RDF) was one of the most active militaries in the world and deployed nearly 600 times to aid natives from the detrimental effects of raider activity,

PRAISING 00000 A World Power for its iconic feats in intelligence gathering and the professionalism in conducting consequential intelligence operations which have fundamentally shaped the international community, including:

- Working tirelessly behind the scenes to help regions manage their own borders, offering unconditional support to regions of all kinds including through intelligence sharing arrangements and direct lines of communication with feeder delegates,

- Establishing and co-ordinating international support for the native resistance in The North Pacific during the rogue delegacy of Lewis and Clark,

- Creating a joint-intelligence centre where the Intelligence Council of 00000 A World Power supported the long-term stability of the three-year delegacy of Moo-cows with guns in The Pacific through their expertise in monitoring international threats,

- The infiltration of DEN, The Brotherhood of Blood, The Black Hawks, The Black Riders, The Last Kingdom and Unknown among others, where intelligence agents substantially undermined organizational operations overwhelmingly to the benefit of the international community,

IMPRESSED that on September 15, 2009, 00000 A World Power became one of the only regions in history to simultaneously hold Warzone Sandbox, Warzone Asia, Warzone Europe, Warzone Airspace, Warzone Australia and Warzone Africa, as part of an agreement to stabilize regional governments from external aggression and without any outside military assistance or support,

RECALLING that 00000 A World Power was one of the most prominent contributors to the Founderless Regions Alliance (FRA), an inter-regional defense conglomerate, where they eventually operated much of the organizations intelligence capabilities,

COGNIZANT that 00000 A World Power was awarded the title of "Best Newcomer" at the Defender Awards of 2008 and one of only two regions to be awarded the Eagles Disobey Award as a result of efforts to go above and beyond in keeping free regions free, as well as raising residents that have gone on to win international recognitions from the defender community on numerous occasions,

PLEASED that the region of 00000 A World Power has collectively been known for its cordial and well-natured approach to diplomacy with friends and foes alike - often drawing in a wider a circle of regions to honorable causes,

SEEKING to commemorate the goodwill of 00000 A World Power as a beacon to future regions and their governments,

HEREBY commends 00000 A World Power.
Last edited by Sedgistan on Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:41 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Munkcestrian Republic
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Postby Munkcestrian Republic » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:11 pm

"- Creating and maintaining a library of over 10,000 unique Internet Protocol addresses for the purposes of border control that has been utilised by a wide range of regions across the world,"

Commend them for sharing people's IPs :clap:
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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:18 pm

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:"- Creating and maintaining a library of over 10,000 unique Internet Protocol addresses for the purposes of border control that has been utilised by a wide range of regions across the world,"

Commend them for sharing people's IPs :clap:

I think he's referencing something other than IPs, although I'm not sure what it is. Regional passwords?
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Bowzin
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Postby Bowzin » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:24 pm

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:"- Creating and maintaining a library of over 10,000 unique Internet Protocol addresses for the purposes of border control that has been utilised by a wide range of regions across the world,"

Commend them for sharing people's IPs :clap:

Yeah, while I get how it can help security, IPs should be shared between admins on a case by case basis, ensuring the admin receiving the IP is trustworthy, and that there is a valid reason for the share...Not a fan of a giant library of people's IPs

EDIT: If Kuriko is right, then this is fine, but need clarification
Last edited by Bowzin on Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Numero Capitan
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Postby Numero Capitan » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:34 am

For clarity, the library was held offline by two people and was never shared or public. Other regions admins would approach us with an IP to search for matches, in cases where they had suspicions that the person wasn’t who they said they were.

It was never used for anything other than good administration, counter-Intelligence and border control and identified countless spies and unwanted individuals at a time when espionage was much more widespread.
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The JELLEAIN Republic
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Postby The JELLEAIN Republic » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:41 am

Numero Capitan wrote:For clarity, the library was held offline by two people and was never shared or public. Other regions admins would approach us with an IP to search for matches, in cases where they had suspicions that the person wasn’t who they said they were.

It was never used for anything other than good administration, counter-Intelligence and border control and identified countless spies and unwanted individuals at a time when espionage was much more widespread.
And how exactly would they collect those ips ? NationStates is a handshake server game, right ?
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Novae Romae
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Postby Novae Romae » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:54 am

Numero Capitan wrote:For clarity, the library was held offline by two people and was never shared or public. Other regions admins would approach us with an IP to search for matches, in cases where they had suspicions that the person wasn’t who they said they were.

It was never used for anything other than good administration, counter-Intelligence and border control and identified countless spies and unwanted individuals at a time when espionage was much more widespread.


So 00000 A World Power has a database of over 10,000 IPs? And this is only overseen by themselves? I mean this with all due respect but you do understand how dangerous this sounds, right? And this has been, in the words of the proposal, "for the purposes of border control that has been utilised by a wide range of regions across the world," which means other regions have had access to these IP Addresses without those people's knowledge. I, along with many others, would like an answer to this blatant disregard for people's IPs and privacy.

"It was never used for anything other than good administration, counter-Intelligence and border control and identified countless spies and unwanted individuals at a time when espionage was much more widespread," a claim we have no way of verifying. What if these IPs are leaked in a hack or otherwise?

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-safe-to-sha ... y-computer but to specifically quote a piece:No. It's not safe to share the IP address of your computer on public Internet, particularly with strangers. It is possible to hack a computer, provided that the hacker knows the IP address of the victim's computer. It doesn't matter that it's shared by only two people, the fact they even gathered the IP addresses of these people and have them stored in a possibly unsecured place is disturbing. Not only that, it's not just one or two, it's 10,000 INDIVIDUAL IP ADDRESSES!! That's possibly 10,000 individual people's IP addresses that could be leaked if these unknown keepers aren't safe.

I refuse to approve a commendation for a region which has gone totally out of line and endangered so many people's IP addresses.
Last edited by Novae Romae on Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:21 am

I assume the owners of the library collected the IPs through the players entrusting them to the admins, such as through making an off-site forum account.
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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:25 am

Bormiar wrote:I assume the owners of the library collected the IPs through the players entrusting them to the admins, such as through making an off-site forum account.

My thoughts as well. Every time you make a forum account, every time you make a forum post, your IP address is recorded on it. If someone has access to forum admin, on any forum, they have access to your IP address. Including here on this forum.
Last edited by Kuriko on Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sargon Reman
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Postby Sargon Reman » Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:28 am

Bormiar wrote:I assume the owners of the library collected the IPs through the players entrusting them to the admins, such as through making an off-site forum account.

That's what I understood it to be. Over the years you can rack up a significant number of IP addresses.
Last edited by Sargon Reman on Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:18 am

Novae Romae wrote:What if these IPs are leaked in a hack or otherwise?

Then someone could (kind of)find out what city a player lives in. IP's really aren't that useful for nefarious purposes, and aren't really that hard to gather.
Last edited by Aclion on Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Novae Romae
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Postby Novae Romae » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:30 am

Aclion wrote:
Novae Romae wrote:What if these IPs are leaked in a hack or otherwise?

Then someone could (kind of)find out what city a player lives in. IP's really aren't that useful for nefarious purposes, and aren't really that hard to gather.


But the fact of the matter is that IP addresses were not only gathered, but distributed to others with no consent from the people who are the IP's. You can also still trace someone's IP to the area and/or hack the IP owner.

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Numero Capitan
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Postby Numero Capitan » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:44 am

Novae Romae wrote:
Aclion wrote:Then someone could (kind of)find out what city a player lives in. IP's really aren't that useful for nefarious purposes, and aren't really that hard to gather.


But the fact of the matter is that IP addresses were not only gathered, but distributed to others with no consent from the people who are the IP's. You can also still trace someone's IP to the area and/or hack the IP owner.


IP addresses are recorded on any website you ever visit, and VPNs are widely available if you wish to remain anonymous for personal reasons. They're only traceable to an internet providers network equipment. The people with access to the library (which is offline) were myself and the region's founder, Neasmyrna.

The point here is, my region has been entrusted with those details by others for a wider purposes of border control over the years and has maintained that as a resource for in-game reasons and it was responsibly managed it and never misused. Monitoring IP addresses is a completely commonplace administrative activity (and was much more important ten years ago when most gameplay activities were conducted on wifi and off-site forums). Anyone who dealt with AWP back then could attest to the usefulness of it as resource (and the careful management of it).

They're not personal to individuals and an IP address of a computer is never fixed, so you can stop being dramatic now.
Last edited by Numero Capitan on Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:48 am

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Bowzin
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Postby Bowzin » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:04 pm

If it wasn't publicly shared, I have no issue with it. However, and bare with me on this cause I am new to the SC, does referencing IPs not violate rule 4?
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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:11 pm

Bowzin wrote:If it wasn't publicly shared, I have no issue with it. However, and bare with me on this cause I am new to the SC, does referencing IPs not violate rule 4?

Not with the way its worded, no.
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Sargon Reman
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Postby Sargon Reman » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:40 pm

Bowzin wrote:If it wasn't publicly shared, I have no issue with it. However, and bare with me on this cause I am new to the SC, does referencing IPs not violate rule 4?

In the annals of NS History, AWP is not the first defender organization to amass a collection of IPs for intelligence/security purposes. In fact, Pope Hope (Im working on her commend) and the Alliance Defense Network (ADN) formed a large IP library. At it's time, the early years of the game, it may have very well been the largest collection of its kind, and the first in its scope.
Last edited by Sargon Reman on Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Marxist Germany
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Postby Marxist Germany » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:48 pm

"I shall be supporting this if it reaches vote, 00000 A World Power has contributed incredibly to the betterment of the world."
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Roavin
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Postby Roavin » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:11 pm

Novae Romae wrote:https://www.quora.com/Is-it-safe-to-share-the-IP-address-of-my-computer but to specifically quote a piece:No. It's not safe to share the IP address of your computer on public Internet, particularly with strangers.


Literally the top answer to the very link you yourself provided states that it's irrelevant!

Image

And ... it is irrelevant, for reasons beyond that. The IP address only routes to the household* (not the computer), and in recent days the IPv4 address isn't even necessarily unique anymore per household. That IP address is only temporary. It does not show the street address where you live, only a rough geographical location (won't get more accurate than, say, "staten island", and half a million people live there; the picture gets even more diluted when you start considering mobile IPs). Having the IP address doesn't allow hacking anybody any more than having a PO box allows you to rob someone's house (i.e. something else needs to leak/be accessible for that to happen).

Please stop gaslighting this thread with your ill-informed, paranoid, misleading, and (given that citation) outright dishonest drivel.

* technically per router, not household, but usually it's 1-to-1 so I'm simplifying here
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Novae Romae
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Postby Novae Romae » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:23 pm

Roavin wrote:
Novae Romae wrote:https://www.quora.com/Is-it-safe-to-share-the-IP-address-of-my-computer but to specifically quote a piece:No. It's not safe to share the IP address of your computer on public Internet, particularly with strangers.


Literally the top answer to the very link you yourself provided states that it's irrelevant!

Image

And ... it is irrelevant, for reasons beyond that. The IP address only routes to the household* (not the computer), and in recent days the IPv4 address isn't even necessarily unique anymore per household. That IP address is only temporary. It does not show the street address where you live, only a rough geographical location (won't get more accurate than, say, "staten island", and half a million people live there; the picture gets even more diluted when you start considering mobile IPs). Having the IP address doesn't allow hacking anybody any more than having a PO box allows you to rob someone's house (i.e. something else needs to leak/be accessible for that to happen).

Please stop gaslighting this thread with your ill-informed, paranoid, misleading, and (given that citation) outright dishonest drivel.

* technically per router, not household, but usually it's 1-to-1 so I'm simplifying here


I dont want my IP being stored on someone's forum just for a video game. I apologize if my basic concern for privacy is suddenly gaslighting.

In regards to the draft, just get rid of this clause, it's obviously causing issues to many players. Other than that the draft is fine.

Edit: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-safe-to-sha ... y-computer go to Vijay Anand's post
Last edited by Novae Romae on Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:34 pm

We don’t care if you don’t want to share your IP, especially since you ironically already have by accessing the NS site. No one else is going to vote against for that reason, though.

Additionally, cherry-picking a comment that agrees with you from a random person on a publicly-curated (via upvotes) question and answer site doesn’t seem very fair.
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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:37 pm

Novae Romae wrote:
Roavin wrote:
Literally the top answer to the very link you yourself provided states that it's irrelevant!

Image

And ... it is irrelevant, for reasons beyond that. The IP address only routes to the household* (not the computer), and in recent days the IPv4 address isn't even necessarily unique anymore per household. That IP address is only temporary. It does not show the street address where you live, only a rough geographical location (won't get more accurate than, say, "staten island", and half a million people live there; the picture gets even more diluted when you start considering mobile IPs). Having the IP address doesn't allow hacking anybody any more than having a PO box allows you to rob someone's house (i.e. something else needs to leak/be accessible for that to happen).

Please stop gaslighting this thread with your ill-informed, paranoid, misleading, and (given that citation) outright dishonest drivel.

* technically per router, not household, but usually it's 1-to-1 so I'm simplifying here


I dont want my IP being stored on someone's forum just for a video game. I apologize if my basic concern for privacy is suddenly gaslighting.

In regards to the draft, just get rid of this clause, it's obviously causing issues to many players. Other than that the draft is fine.

Edit: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-safe-to-sha ... y-computer go to Vijay Anand's post

You just stored your IP on this forum by making this post. Actually, you've stored your IP on this forum at least 97 times now excluding whatever puppets you use to post on this forum.
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Novae Romae
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Postby Novae Romae » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:45 pm

Upon looking after my posts it appears my fears were unfounded. I apologize for the spread of any misinformation. I will still recommend the removal of that part of the draft but otherwise it now has my full support. :clap:

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Roavin
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Postby Roavin » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:16 pm

Novae Romae wrote:I dont want my IP being stored on someone's forum just for a video game. I apologize if my basic concern for privacy is suddenly gaslighting.


Concerns over your privacy are not gaslighting. Spreading false information deliberately, using appeals to emotion, is. If this is not done deliberately, then it's done out of paranoid ignorance (which isn't much better), as I'll demonstrate:

Novae Romae wrote:Edit: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-safe-to-sha ... y-computer go to Vijay Anand's post


So you're preferring the answer with 0 upvotes from an unverified account to the top answer from the verified account of a systems administrator with a degree in computer networking.

I could go through that post line by line and show that all of what is only technically correct, or meaningless, or both, but let's not bother and instead look at something much more interesting. That answer links twice to simulationexams.com. A quick glance at this unverified account called "Vijay Anand" reveals that this account links to that website, and/or another website awfully like it, in literally every post they make on quora. Those websites sell preparation tools for people getting certified in IT. You know, "third party resources".

Congratulations, thanks to your undue paranoia, you just fell hook, line, and sinker for a spam bot.

Now please, listen to the fucking verified account.
Last edited by Roavin on Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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and democracy wanking is peak defender
" — Tim

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Novae Romae
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Novae Romae » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:19 pm

Roavin wrote:
Novae Romae wrote:I dont want my IP being stored on someone's forum just for a video game. I apologize if my basic concern for privacy is suddenly gaslighting.


Concerns over your privacy are not gaslighting. Spreading false information deliberately, using appeals to emotion, is. If this is not done deliberately, then it's done out of paranoid ignorance (which isn't much better), as I'll demonstrate:

Novae Romae wrote:Edit: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-safe-to-sha ... y-computer go to Vijay Anand's post


So you're preferring the answer with 0 upvotes from an unverified account to the top answer from the verified account of a systems administrator with a degree in computer networking.

I could go through that post line by line and show that all of what is only technically correct, or meaningless, or both, but let's not bother and instead look at something much more interesting. That answer links twice to simulationexams.com. A quick glance at this unverified account called "Vijay Anand" reveals that this account links to that website, and/or another website awfully like it, in literally every post they make on quora. Those websites sell preparation tools for people getting certified in IT. You know, "third party resources".

Congratulations, thanks to your undue paranoia, you just fell hook, line, and sinker for a spam bot.

Now please, listen to the fucking verified account.


Ok, I already apologized, no need to get so hostile. Calm down.

Edit: viewtopic.php?p=16394954&sid=4ffe43d9b48be264a3b694b49e7ed9f9#p16394954

Privacy violation: Players on NationStates have a reasonable expectation that their privacy will be respected. It is not permitted to post or otherwise share another player's personally-identifying information (i.e. social media accounts, IP addresses, postal addresses, E-mail addresses, telephone numbers, or other real-world identifying information).
Last edited by Novae Romae on Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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