by Sargon Reman » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:31 pm
by Borovan entered the region as he » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:01 pm
EndoHills wrote:Ok
by Lord Dominator » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:02 pm
by Sargon Reman » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:15 pm
Lord Dominator wrote:This does however promise to be most fun to watch
by Marilyn Manson Freaks » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:01 pm
by Padfootia » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:34 pm
Sargon Reman wrote:RECALLING how in the early days of the 10000 Islands that Grub formed an international coalition nearly overnight and in response to the threat of destruction posed by the Empire of Power on the 10000 Islands and that after much effort the coalition defeated The Empire of Power by one World Assembly endorsement,
PLEASED that Grub led an intelligence operation that resulted in the defeat and annexation of the Empire of Power, a region which had destroyed and destabilized many innocent regions throughout the international community,
by Armaros » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:01 pm
EXTOLLING Grub's firm grasp of international diplomacy which formed some of the most unbreakable diplomatic alliances in the Defender world and which cemented inter-regional relations between the 10000 Islandsand other regions, including Texas, The Rejected Realms, Yggdrasil, Wysteria, Urbanites, the Founderless Regions Alliance, Renegade Islands Alliance, and many others,
by Sargon Reman » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:08 pm
Armaros wrote:Opposed.EXTOLLING Grub's firm grasp of international diplomacy which formed some of the most unbreakable diplomatic alliances in the Defender world and which cemented inter-regional relations between the 10000 Islandsand other regions, including Texas, The Rejected Realms, Yggdrasil, Wysteria, Urbanites, the Founderless Regions Alliance, Renegade Islands Alliance, and many others,
You need a space between “Islands” and “and”. Minor thing, I know, but I haven’t been able to read it fully yet.
by Praeceps » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:30 pm
by Sargon Reman » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:33 pm
You mean the AWARE clause? All of those are TITO medals. I made a clause for his Yggdrasil recognition.Praeceps wrote:The one clause I think could use clarification is which regions are awarding which medals.
by Praeceps » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:15 am
by Yohannes » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:20 am
by Armaros » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:06 am
Sargon Reman wrote:The Security Council,
RECOGNIZING the nation of Grub for extensive feats in military defense tactics and contributions of inter-regional goodwill throughout the international community,
HAILING that Grub is a founding member of one of the most prestigious defending organizations in the world, the Ten Thousand Islands Treaty Organization (TITO), which has deployed successfully in over 3000 missions protecting natives and safeguarding regional governments for over 16 years,
AWARE that the military contributions attributed to Grub are massive and include being a highly decorated defender in TITO for over 15 years and having completed 653 deployments; in this capacity they have been given the rank of Grand Knight Fleet Commander after serving as the Commander and Chief of TITO and has been decorated many times including with the 10000 Islands Medal of Honor, the Rajahland Defense Medal, The North Pacific Liberation Star, The Rejected Realms Liberation Medal, Lazarus Liberation Medal, and the Osiris Defense Medal,
COGNIZANT that Grub contributed to several refound operations, in which founderless regions were restored to peace and tranquility, including the refounding of USA, The Skeleton Army, Beyond the Sea, Norway, Deutschland, Australia, Animal House,
NOTING that Grub deployed in support of operations in Feeders and Sinkers alike in order to maintain lawful regional governments and protect them from coups, these operations include support of the region Osiris, Lazarus, The North Pacific and the Rejected Realms,
IMPRESSED that just 4 years into its existence, the nation of Grub was given a lifetime achievement award for dedication in defending by the international defender community for distinguished contribution in military deployments,
RECALLING how in the early days of the 10000 Islands that Grub formed an international coalition nearly overnight and in response to the threat of destruction posed by the Empire of Power on the 10000 Islands and that after much effort the coalition defeated Empire of Power (EoP) by one World Assembly endorsement,
INSPIRED that Grub led an intelligence operation that penetrated every level of the EoP leadership and resulted in the defeat and annexation of the EoP, a region which had destroyed and destabilized many innocent regions throughout the international community,
AWED that for over 15 years Grub demonstrated stunning communal leadership which allowed the 10000 Islands, a region commended by this Council, to prosper into an internationally renown region and to achieve an all time population record of over 3000 nations for a region that is neither Feeder nor Sinker,
OBSERVING that Grub is a recipient of the Yggdrasil Medal of Honor, recognizing their many years of support and outreach to that region, which is proof of their positive diplomatic endeavors towards the international community,
EXTOLLING Grub's firm grasp of international diplomacy which formed some of the most unbreakable diplomatic alliances in the Defender world and which cemented inter-regional relations between the 10000 Islands and other regions, including Texas, The Rejected Realms, Wysteria, Urbanites, the Founderless Regions Alliance, Renegade Islands Alliance, and many others,
by Sargon Reman » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:30 am
Armaros wrote:Now that I have more time to think this through, here's my thoughts and why I'm opposed:Sargon Reman wrote:The Security Council,
RECOGNIZING the nation of Grub for extensive feats in military defense tactics and contributions of inter-regional goodwill throughout the international community,
HAILING that Grub is a founding member of one of the most prestigious defending organizations in the world, the Ten Thousand Islands Treaty Organization (TITO), which has deployed successfully in over 3000 missions protecting natives and safeguarding regional governments for over 16 years,
Fair enough.AWARE that the military contributions attributed to Grub are massive and include being a highly decorated defender in TITO for over 15 years and having completed 653 deployments; in this capacity they have been given the rank of Grand Knight Fleet Commander after serving as the Commander and Chief of TITO and has been decorated many times including with the 10000 Islands Medal of Honor, the Rajahland Defense Medal, The North Pacific Liberation Star, The Rejected Realms Liberation Medal, Lazarus Liberation Medal, and the Osiris Defense Medal,
Surprise - the founder of XKI being awarded XKI medals. Again, fair enough, but not inherently commendable. Also, commending him for "being given the rank of Grand Knight Fleet Commander" in a region he literally founded is not something I'd consider commendable.COGNIZANT that Grub contributed to several refound operations, in which founderless regions were restored to peace and tranquility, including the refounding of USA, The Skeleton Army, Beyond the Sea, Norway, Deutschland, Australia, Animal House,
NOTING that Grub deployed in support of operations in Feeders and Sinkers alike in order to maintain lawful regional governments and protect them from coups, these operations include support of the region Osiris, Lazarus, The North Pacific and the Rejected Realms,
Wait - why did you mention this specifically after you talked about the medals Grub was awarded for exactly these operations? I'd advice switching that around, if you even want to keep the medals part, which doesn't really add anything to the proposal anyway.IMPRESSED that just 4 years into its existence, the nation of Grub was given a lifetime achievement award for dedication in defending by the international defender community for distinguished contribution in military deployments,
RECALLING how in the early days of the 10000 Islands that Grub formed an international coalition nearly overnight and in response to the threat of destruction posed by the Empire of Power on the 10000 Islands and that after much effort the coalition defeated Empire of Power (EoP) by one World Assembly endorsement,
I'm not sure if EoP was out on destroying the region. I doubt any of them are around to tell us anyway. Proof?INSPIRED that Grub led an intelligence operation that penetrated every level of the EoP leadership and resulted in the defeat and annexation of the EoP, a region which had destroyed and destabilized many innocent regions throughout the international community,
Commending nations for destroying regions is an idea I am in favour of. Good to see XKIers consider the destruction of enemy regions to be a feat worth commending.AWED that for over 15 years Grub demonstrated stunning communal leadership which allowed the 10000 Islands, a region commended by this Council, to prosper into an internationally renown region and to achieve an all time population record of over 3000 nations for a region that is neither Feeder nor Sinker,
I'll grant you this. Not sure if getting many nations is something to be commended for, though.OBSERVING that Grub is a recipient of the Yggdrasil Medal of Honor, recognizing their many years of support and outreach to that region, which is proof of their positive diplomatic endeavors towards the international community,
A single medal in an allied region is your "proof"? Pretty flimsy proof you've got there.EXTOLLING Grub's firm grasp of international diplomacy which formed some of the most unbreakable diplomatic alliances in the Defender world and which cemented inter-regional relations between the 10000 Islands and other regions, including Texas, The Rejected Realms, Wysteria, Urbanites, the Founderless Regions Alliance, Renegade Islands Alliance, and many others,
You forget Grub's extreme views, leading to the banjection of Church of Satan and Benevolent Thomas, among others, as well as TITO having a rather different approach to defending and creating some issues with other defender organisations in the past, from what I know. "diplomacy" is not something you should commend Grub for, in my opinion.
Over all, some of Grub's backwards rules he set out for TITO hurt their efficiency, I'd say. His strict views also hurt unity in defenderdom. I wouldn't consider him commendable, although he has accomplished some rather impressive things.
by Armaros » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:19 am
Sargon Reman wrote:The medals are included to the extent necessary to show where he deployed during his "15 year" record.
On the point of EoP there is plenty of evidence. This can be found in our Regional history archives and I believe its even mentioned in the NS history thread.
I'm not whitewashing any extreme views. Grubs diplomacy did in fact cement relations with many of those listed. Some of them began a relationship with 10KI immediately after helping to push back the EoP at that fateful update.
To say that he did impressive things but that they are just barely not enough to rise to a Commendation is fallacious. You can't deny the nominees overwhelming aptitude and ability in Defending.
How many defenders get a life time achievement award just 4 years into their existence? Extremely few. There is plenty to warrant a Commendation.
by Mallorea and Riva » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:18 pm
Sargon Reman wrote: COGNIZANT that Grub contributed to several refound operations, in which founderless regions were restored to peace and tranquility, including the refounding of USA, The Skeleton Army, Beyond the Sea, Norway, Deutschland, Australia, Animal House,
Sargon Reman wrote:NOTING that Grub deployed in support of operations in Feeders and Sinkers alike in order to maintain lawful regional governments and protect them from coups, these operations include support of the region Osiris, Lazarus, The North Pacific and the Rejected Realms,
Sargon Reman wrote:IMPRESSED that just 4 years into its existence, the nation of Grub was given a lifetime achievement award for dedication in defending by the international defender community for distinguished contribution in military deployments,
by Bormiar » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:44 pm
by Sargon Reman » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:31 pm
Bormiar wrote:Mallorea and Riva wrote:
For what?
I wasn't sure how to phrase this, and I appreciate you giving me a perspective on how to do so.
Presumably, he was awarded these for his actions detailed in the proposal, which makes including them redundant, but that's not the only problem with this.
The most glaring consequence of including awards in a reasoning for commendation is that it completely contradicts the idea of a commendation. The first explanation for commendations' existence is that they are awards. You don't commend someone for being commended; you don't commend someone for being well-liked by a certain person or a certain region, especially not their own region, so you sure as hell shouldn't commend them for being given awards. The second explanation for why commendations exist is that they provide an ideal or example of how to play the game, a statement on what the Security Council considers to be virtuous, impressive, difficult, and unique. They give players something to aspire to. Should players work simply to win an award for their actions, rather than work simply because it ought to be done? I'd think not, and I seriously implore the author to remove these clauses, especially since the proposal focuses on them. A short proposal isn't a bad one. Don't fill it with fluff.
Edit: Additionally, it suggests that the SC's opinion needs to be supported by other regions, which directly contradicts rule 4, and potentially borders it.
Sargon may correct me here, but I believe those clauses are intended to be supplementary, so as to enforce the overall ethic of the player, rather than commend their individual actions. Yes, a lot of players could do what is stated in those clauses, but not a lot of players have done that in addition to all of the greater achievements this player has.
It is not the individual clauses which have to be assessed for their own commend-worthiness, but rather the sum of those clauses.
by Bormiar » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:29 am
Sargon Reman wrote:(Image)
I recommend you go read what Kasch just said about awards/actions etc regarding my proposal to Commend United Counties of Escanaba:Sargon may correct me here, but I believe those clauses are intended to be supplementary, so as to enforce the overall ethic of the player, rather than commend their individual actions. Yes, a lot of players could do what is stated in those clauses, but not a lot of players have done that in addition to all of the greater achievements this player has.
It is not the individual clauses which have to be assessed for their own commend-worthiness, but rather the sum of those clauses.
I too can add a condescending image and quote somebody else in lieu of solving my own problems. And thank you for the “explanation”; I know how clauses work.
The entire point behind why you should omit them is that they are a waste of space, and do not improve your proposal because they do not share why Grub was awarded, and when they do, it’s redundant. Judging by how many comments you seem to get on this throughout your recent proposals, it might be a good idea to change it.
I think that if you must be stubborn, it’s still fine to leave it in, as long as you can amalgamate it in with other clauses in order to explain why he received them. I think you did that in the proposal somewhere (I’m on a phone so it’s tough to check/reference). For example, shortening the “impressed” clause and putting it in the “aware” clause, and completely removing the Yggdrasil award. That bit isn’t helping it, unless you can find somewhere to put it. That way, you can provide context while still including your awards, for whatever reason; as standalone clauses they provide nothing but skepticism.
by Sargon Reman » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:26 am
I will be doing some revisions to the text and I will look at this.For example, shortening the “impressed” clause and putting it in the “aware” clause, and completely removing the Yggdrasil award. That bit isn’t helping it, unless you can find somewhere to put it. That way, you can provide context while still including your awards...
by Bormiar » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:41 am
Sargon Reman wrote:I will be doing some revisions to the text and I will look at this.For example, shortening the “impressed” clause and putting it in the “aware” clause, and completely removing the Yggdrasil award. That bit isn’t helping it, unless you can find somewhere to put it. That way, you can provide context while still including your awards...
by The Stalker » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:25 pm
by Sargon Reman » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:35 pm
PRAISING the nation of Grub as one of the greatest liberators of all time, where they played critical roles in some of the most memorable liberations in history and consistently undermined raider activity throughout the international community including:
- The liberation of The North Pacific from the oppression of the ALSO regime led by Great Bights Mum during the summer of 2004 when a combined force of TITO, ADN and ALL wrestled away the Delegates seat,
- The liberation of the Rejected Realms from the forces of DEN & Taijitu on July 21, 2007 where Grub provided crucial assistance that allowed the raider Delegate to be toppled from power,
- The large scale liberation of the Philippines, where defenders forces were down by nearly 20 WA endorsements, Grub rallied TITO forces so that a victory was achieved with a final score of 92-86 on May 17, 2006,
- Grub was the lead liberation nation in the epic battle of Rajahland in which the Defenders won 123 endorsements to 104 on August 10, 2008, ranking in as one of the largest battles in history,
- On June 25th, 2009, Grub played pivotal role in the coordination of the defender forces with Yggdrasil, Texas and 00000 A World Power for a liberation attempt of A Silly Place, with the raiders having a 19 endorsement lead, the combined defender forces swiftly moved to garner 27 endorsements and liberated the region from Folsom, Unkown and several raider organizations,
by WayNeacTia » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:29 am
AWARE that the military contributions attributed to Grub are massive and include being a highly decorated defender in TITO for over 15 years and having completed 653 deployments; in this capacity they have been given the rank of Grand Knight Fleet Commander after serving as the Commander and Chief of TITO and has been decorated many times including with the 10000 Islands Medal of Honor,
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac
wait
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