[DEFEATED] Repeal "Commend Evil Wolf"

[Captain Woodhouse]

If you haven't noticed, the fascists always show up to support repeal attempts of this commendation - because Wolf helped breakdown NE.
In any event, as predicted, the Woodhouse Yeti has been stirred.

I'm not a fascist and I loathe NE. Do you have an argument that isn't of the fallacious ad hominem variety or are you going to continue squealing fascist, fascist, fascist, yeti, yeti, yeti, hoping the noise will bury the refound bit I posted that EW has conspicuously ignored?

And right there, as much as you really hate to admit it, you've proven the impact you keep saying doesn't exist. Whole point wasn't just to take Nazi Europe but ultimately to get inside NE's head, and I think that was firmly accomplished.

You're giddy over me donating a drop of blood. You've proven the equivalent of a paper cut is all it takes for you to declare Mission Accomplished. Cheers.

When it comes to getting inside heads, you're no Vulcan.

Let's talk about the ugly business now. You've had enough time to conjure a quality piece of fiction that'll satisfy your homies. Scratch that. Ad hominem crud is enough to keep them happy. I'd appreciate an explanation for why you approached German Dragons and Leather-clad Germany with that nasty refound info.

[Mallorea and Riva]

If you haven't noticed, the fascists always show up to support repeal attempts of this commendation - because Wolf helped breakdown NE.
In any event, as predicted, the Woodhouse Yeti has been stirred.

I'm not a fascist and I loathe NE. Do you have an argument that isn't of the fallacious ad hominem variety or are you going to continue squealing fascist, fascist, fascist, yeti, yeti, yeti, hoping the noise will bury the refound bit I posted that EW has conspicuously ignored?

I didn't say you were a fascist. I referenced you in my earlier quip because you were the military mind behind the fascist counterattack on NE all those years back.

We've had the same debate about these issues over and over, either on this forum, discord, or IRC. Everytime we come to the same conclusion: Wolf worked actively to undermine and destroy fash groups over the long term. I know you have sneaky screenshots from your conversations with the fash. I also know the arc of this whole argument and where we're going to end up.

[Captain Woodhouse]

I didn't say you were a fascist. I referenced you in my earlier quip because you were the military mind behind the fascist counterattack on NE all those years back.

My name is included in at least one post that mentions Nazis and fascists. Your intent is muddy. You can resolve ambiguity by stating, "I know you're not a Nazi or fascist." "I didn’t say you were a fascist," doesn't cut it.

Offsite, my argument is referred to as the fascist argument, perpetrated only by fascists for the sake of benefiting fascists. Players other than me in these threads who agree that EW isn't Odysseus, and that dead NE wasn't Troy, are dismissed as unenlightened fascist stooges. Rather than disagree, you appear to embrace the sentiment.

We've had the same debate about these issues over and over, either on this forum, discord, or IRC. Everytime we come to the same conclusion: Wolf worked actively to undermine and destroy fash groups over the long term.

There's no disputing EW worked to undermine and destroy NAZI EUROPE. Had he managed to do so before the region emptied (the original intent), his work would have been noteworthy in my eyes. You say he destroyed fash groups. I'm unfamiliar with his anti-fascist work elsewhere.

Contrary to what you might think, I've no bone to pick with EW on the matter of NE's destruction. I view the value of the kill from an anti-fascist perspective now—a perspective that's included an RO slot in the destruction of a huge, active fascist region: Union of the Fascist Nations.

Had my opinion on the significance of the destruction of abandoned NE changed, the sincerity of my original argument would be suspect. Nothing's changed other than the camp from which I operate. I've killed abandoned fascist regions, too—most notably, The Fascist Order. I didn't delude myself into thinking it was a victory over fascism. All that said, I entered this Repeal thread only because I'd stumbled on the EW-Jew TGs while searching my mail for unrelated content.



EW made it clear to GD that his motive for screwing NE was self-serving. NE was a "target of opportunity." Ideology had nothing to do with it. Opportunistic behavior is a frequent allegation leveled against EW by others who feel such behavior isn't commendable.

EW's malice toward defenders is another major criticism of him that's commendable only in the eyes of those who dislike defenders. His extreme rancor is apparent in the TG. Since he has yet to offer an explanation for tipping off GD and LCG to the defender refound of Jew, what conclusion can be drawn regarding intent other than he did it to hurt defenders?

The tip-off happened many months after EW deceived GD and attempted a raid on NE; months before the Lib Repeal and subsequent remembrance that he still had NE's password. EW's renewed public anger over a leak he believed destroyed his big chance to raid NE doesn't help his case.

I know you have sneaky screenshots from your conversations with the fash.

They are what they are. A leader of a region that received a Condemnation badge recently, approached GD for coup piler support. They appeared terrified of exposure. Had they been prancing around as a great anti-fascist warrior, I would have released what I’ve got on them, too.

[Evil Wolf]

A leader of a region that received a Condemnation badge recently, approached GD for coup piler support. They appeared terrified of exposure.

I dare say if I had been "terrified of exposure", I would have used one of my hundreds of puppets to message them. Also, LWU was honorably Condemned in 2011, the incident you're referring to happened in 2013. That's a time lapse of at 2 years, if not more. If you consider that to be "recent" in NS terms, I have a myriad of concerns. Of course, you know that the two events weren't "recent" of each other, it just sounded better and you didn't think I'd call you out on it.

But lets deep dive into your frigidly framed allegations and rip them apart piece by piece, shall we? *Crack Knuckles*

All that said, I entered this Repeal thread only because I'd stumbled on the EW-Jew TGs while searching my mail for unrelated content.

Actually, you've entered just about every Commend discussion that has ever happened where the Commend mentioned the destruction of Nazi Europe, always to argue against those commended, including The Red Fleet and the MT Army's commends and several repeal attempts mentioning me. You may find such examples here, here, and here. Of course your magnum opus was always coming to the defense of Nazi Europe against many, many attempts to Liberate NE, which would have opened it up to the type of attack that ultimately lead to its destruction.

This has always been a topic you've argued passionately about, Woodhouse, so much so that people on Discord were taking bets on when you might show up in this very thread to argue about NE. Don't be coy here and downplay all your hard work up till now!

EW made it clear to GD that his motive for screwing NE was self-serving. NE was a "target of opportunity." Ideology had nothing to do with it.

I do tend to lie to my enemies upon occasion, yes. Like, for example, when I lied to German Dragons and said I was going to help him out and re-enforce Nazi Europe before the Liberation hit, but in reality packed the region full of NPA flying a flase flag. I especially enjoyed lying to German Dragons. His confusion gave me joy.

EW's malice toward defenders is another major criticism of him that's commendable only in the eyes of those who dislike defenders. His extreme rancor is apparent in the TG. Since he has yet to offer an explanation for tipping off GD and LCG to the defender refound of Jew, what conclusion can be drawn regarding intent other than he did it to hurt defenders?

Well, first, you claim I passed on that information to take revenge against the UDL. If that's true, why did I got after an FRA held region? UDL and FRA didn't exactly get along with each other at that time. Why would I attack the FRA to seek revenge against the UDL? That's like attacking TWG to "take revenge" against XKI. The entire idea is silly.

Furthermore, from what I remember of a throw away telegram from seven years ago, and the related context I gleamed from my TG box, it seems my intention to pass on that information to GGR and NE wasn't exactly intended to favor them. You see, I seem to recall that whenever players of a certain political inclination refounded the region of "Jew", specifically, they always seemed to end up deleted for some strange reason.

Now, I'm not saying that would have happened had either party hawked Jew (which they didn't, I should note); I am not a teller of fortunes, but I think history would have supported that assumption. I'm guessing that's probably why NE and GGR didn't bite, by the by. Maybe you should have included that context in your release of the emails. No? Well, I can't blame you. Doesn't support your re-framing after all.

Of course, the other context you're leaving out, I am sure by pure accident and not because it undermines your argument, is that years ago I profusely apologized for working with GGR and any other far-right radical elements. Publicly, in fact. And I did so well after this very wholesome, not-at-all-a-trap TG exchange and after Nazi Europe was refounded. Since then I have not worked with any of these fascist regions, nor has any group I associate with. That's at least 6+ years now. All of this was thoroughly addressed when my commend first came up, in fact.

You see, Woodhouse, context is very important, as you know, which is probably why you tried to hide so much of it.

[Marxist Germany]

I do tend to lie to my enemies upon occasion, yes. Like, for example, when I lied to German Dragons and said I was going to help him out and re-enforce Nazi Europe before the Liberation hit, but in reality packed the region full of NPA flying a flase flag. I especially enjoyed lying to German Dragons. His confusion gave me joy.

OOC: That is quite the convenient cover-up.

[Evil Wolf]

I do tend to lie to my enemies upon occasion, yes. Like, for example, when I lied to German Dragons and said I was going to help him out and re-enforce Nazi Europe before the Liberation hit, but in reality packed the region full of NPA flying a flase flag. I especially enjoyed lying to German Dragons. His confusion gave me joy.

OOC: That is quite the convenient cover-up.

A "cover up" that is provably supported by the much bigger lie I had told him before that in order to obtain the password for Nazi Europe, and the additional lie I told that LWU was coming to help him, and the further lie that all the LWU flagged troops were mine, and not NPA troopers ready to pounce him.

I believe it's historically supported that I lied to German Dragons on multiple occasions, and always to the detriment of Nazi Europe. I even got a Commend partly from doing so, I think.

[Daytime to Night]

This is far more practically useful, as it actually recognizes skill rather than goodness and evilness. Skilled players like AMOM and Sedge would actually be given proper recognition in this SC. Evil Wolf has clearly gotten enough to lean heavily commendable and lean heavily condemnable.

I don't disagree with your post here in theory, but I simply disagree on the matter that EW has got enough to 'lean heavily commendable'.

The only argument in this whole thread is 'Nazi Europa' plus the 'other stuff in the commendation' or 'good things'. No-one has even bothered to dig out specifics from the Commendation itself, let alone recall them from memory.

If EW is so commendable, why are the reactions to people supporting this repeal (including its author) just 'defender salt', 'get off your high horse' and 'you're desperate'?

If I was 'desperate' to repeal this Commendation then maybe I would have tried that at some point in however many years? I'm simply providing evidenced reasons why EW might not be a worthy commendee (on top of the fact that the resolution simply isn't very good). The hyperbole I am getting in response isn't persuasive (although seeing EW argue with Nazi Europe does warm the coals).

For those who need reminding the Commendation refers to:

- An unremarkable single month term as delegate of Lazarus in 2005 (wrongly attributed to 2006-07) and/or a similarly unremarkable term in 2006

- Failing to take the delegacy aselected King in November 2008 (wrongly attributed to 2007), letting JAL first take the delegacy and then Charles of the Commonwealth (as Razril Island) - with EW selling his delegacy to Charles for use of the Commonwealth's recruiting tool by Lone Wolves United¹ - all of which is somehow sold as EW fighting off "several invasions and coup attempts" in the Commendation, despite him never taking the delegacy at all

- EW helping the Commonwealth 'organise a counter-coup' against ROLHEATH with a force of 40 WAs² (not 80-100 as wrongly described in the Commendation). In reality, Eli became inactive but refused to step down, TWP chose ROLHEATH as a successor and the Commonwealth piled some forces in without any particular strategy because Eli was inactive.

- EW gaining the TNP delegacy from JAL by default before Flemingovia restored order (EW was vocally supporting JALs bans)

- EW appointing McM as Minister of Defense?

- EW 'helping uncover' a UDL spy, which was 100% Eluvatar³ but EW happened to be MoD at the time

- and finally, the Nazi Europe thing

Not sure how the resolution could be deemed (a) any good, precise or worthy of retention, and (b) justifies commending EW - but sure keep slinging insults everyone.

¹ and ² viewtopic.php?p=35452689&sid=ea0a9a447a0f87f1029ab810a1e18a3e#p35452689
³ viewtopic.php?p=27479121&sid=321f199a72849b1046c26b7d2fb36f83#p27479121

[Evil Wolf]

- EW 'helping uncover' a UDL spy, which was 100% Eluvatar but EW happened to be MoD at the time

Acting Delegate and elected Vice Delegate, actually. But you were almost close.

-EW helping the Commonwealth 'organise a counter-coup' against ROLHEATH with a force of 40 WAs (not 80-100 as wrongly described in the Commendation). In reality, Eli became inactive but refused to step down, TWP chose ROLHEATH as a successor and the Commonwealth piled some forces in without any particular strategy because Eli was inactive.

Also I didn't "'organise a counter-coup' against ROLHEATH", I supported ROLHEATH and lead the operation (correctly stated as 80-100 nations in support), so lol.

Also ROL banned Eli and disbanded his government, restoring the prior government, because it was a counter coup.

EW gaining the TNP delegacy from JAL by default before Flemingovia restored order (EW was vocally supporting JALs bans)

You mean doing my appointed duty as Flem's legally elected vice delegate, then banned JAL from the region. Also lol.

-Failing to take the delegacy as elected King in November 2008 (wrongly attributed to 2007), letting JAL first take the delegacy and then Charles of the Commonwealth (as Razril Island)

I absolutely took the delegate, we have proof

573. 20090127 Lazarus 4,026 Killer Kitty
574. 20090120 Lazarus 3,968 Killer Kitty
575. 20090112 Lazarus 3,927 Killer Kitty
576. 20090103 Lazarus 4,011 Killer Kitty
577. 20081224 Lazarus 4,232 Killer Kitty
578. 20081218 Lazarus 4,359 Killer Kitty
579. 20081210 Lazarus 4,460 Killer Kitty
580. 20081129 Lazarus 4,921 viceroy victorious
581. 20081122 Lazarus 4,925 viceroy victorious
582. 20081116 Lazarus 5,020 Killer Kitty
583. 20081109 Lazarus 5,102 harmoneia

Viceroy Victorious was JAL again. I fought off his coup attempt that you claim never happened while being in the delegate seat you claim I never took. lol

The rest of your claims are similarly flat wrong to the point of pure mockery, but these ones amused me more. You clearly didn't research any of this and have no idea what you're talking about. I thought you were suppose to be the Intelligence Director of Founderless, Numero Capitan.

At this point, it seems like a few of the opposition are just straight up fabricating "evidence". Does this mean I won?

[Syberis]

Man, I wish people would utterly fabricate history in regards to myself as much as they do against EW.

People would go around screaming I was never Pharaoh of Osiris and we'd all have a grand old time.

[Daytime to Night]

Viceroy Victorious was JAL again. I fought off his coup attempt that you claim never happened while being in the delegate seat you claim I never took. lol?

Apologies, I was clearly basing my comments off an unreliable source - it is clear now that you did successfully lose the actual delegacy twice in two months, before throwing in the towel (i.e. a whole GCR) to your couper so that you could recruit for LWU more easily. How commendable

[Mallorea and Riva]

Viceroy Victorious was JAL again. I fought off his coup attempt that you claim never happened while being in the delegate seat you claim I never took. lol?

Apologies, I was clearly basing my comments off an unreliable source - it is clear now that you did successfully lose the actual delegacy twice in two months, before throwing in the towel (i.e. a whole GCR) to your couper so that you could recruit for LWU more easily. How commendable

Just to be clear, were all of my dates right and your source was wrong on all those? I'm trying to figure out what from the laundry list you came in with you're still maintaining to be correct.

[Evil Wolf]

Viceroy Victorious was JAL again. I fought off his coup attempt that you claim never happened while being in the delegate seat you claim I never took. lol?

Apologies, I was clearly basing my comments off an unreliable source - it is clear now that you did successfully lose the actual delegacy twice in two months, before throwing in the towel (i.e. a whole GCR) to your couper so that you could recruit for LWU more easily. How commendable

Yeah, I don't think you get to creditably talk anymore. You just made up lies, and are trying to act all cool when called out.

[Daytime to Night]

Apologies, I was clearly basing my comments off an unreliable source - it is clear now that you did successfully lose the actual delegacy twice in two months, before throwing in the towel (i.e. a whole GCR) to your couper so that you could recruit for LWU more easily. How commendable

Yeah, I don't think you get to creditably talk anymore. You just made up lies, and are trying to act all cool when called out.

Here's the incorrect link, which claimed to be an accurate summary from NSHistory - viewtopic.php?p=7775524&sid=56172e2ccd260298c0d48ebd09d255e7#p7775524

The dates in the commendation are off by years, we pretending that's good authorship? Weirdly I don't put the same amount of effort and research into every forum post I make compared to what we all expect for World Assembly proposals, but some of us favour discussion about actual events and details rather than simply trading insults.

"You don't get to creditably talk anymore" isn't a response, it is incredibly rude and follows on from the same namecalling and mudslinging coming from every raider on here who is unable to give more than one good reason for the Commend. I have apologised, corrected my post accordingly and shared the reason for the error.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

-EW helping the Commonwealth 'organise a counter-coup' against ROLHEATH with a force of 40 WAs (not 80-100 as wrongly described in the Commendation). In reality, Eli became inactive but refused to step down, TWP chose ROLHEATH as a successor and the Commonwealth piled some forces in without any particular strategy because Eli was inactive.

Also I didn't "'organise a counter-coup' against ROLHEATH", I supported ROLHEATH and lead the operation (correctly stated as 80-100 nations in support), so lol.

Also ROL banned Eli and disbanded his government, restoring the prior government, because it was a counter coup.

Can confirm. Eli was inactive at the time, Rolheath led the counter-coup against Eli supported by about 80+ nations. EW was in charge of the operation.

[Dangine]

I must say, it must suck for your name be abbreviated as " EW". I was very confused while reading some posts.

[Evil Wolf]

I must say, it must suck for your name be abbreviated as " EW". I was very confused while reading some posts.

Eh, I get used to it.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Yeah, I don't think you get to creditably talk anymore. You just made up lies, and are trying to act all cool when called out.

Here's the incorrect link, which claimed to be an accurate summary from NSHistory - viewtopic.php?p=7775524&sid=56172e2ccd260298c0d48ebd09d255e7#p7775524

The dates in the commendation are off by years, we pretending that's good authorship? Weirdly I don't put the same amount of effort and research into every forum post I make compared to what we all expect for World Assembly proposals.

"You don't get to creditably talk anymore" isn't a response, it is incredibly rude and follows on from the same namecalling and mudslinging coming from every raider on here who is unable to give more than one good reason for the Commend. I have apologised, corrected my post accordingly and shared the reason for the error.

Can you point to a date that's actually off? Your source appears to be wildly inaccurate (and it actually states that it is not accurate since it was known at the time it was posted to miss entire delegacies), but you're still saying that my dates are incorrect in your post. I've broken down your revised post so people can keep track of what was right, what's ambiguous, and what is still just wrong.

- An unremarkable single month term as delegate of Lazarus in 2005 (wrongly attributed to 2006-07) and/or a similarly unremarkable term in 2006

Your source is bad and you should feel bad, kindly correct.

- Failing to take the delegacy aselected King in November 2008 (wrongly attributed to 2007), letting JAL first take the delegacy and then Charles of the Commonwealth (as Razril Island) - with EW selling his delegacy to Charles for use of the Commonwealth's recruiting tool by Lone Wolves United¹ - all of which is somehow sold as EW fighting off "several invasions and coup attempts" in the Commendation, despite him never taking the delegacy at all

Your source is bad and you should feel bad, kindly correct.

- EW helping the Commonwealth 'organise a counter-coup' against ROLHEATH with a force of 40 WAs² (not 80-100 as wrongly described in the Commendation). In reality, Eli became inactive but refused to step down, TWP chose ROLHEATH as a successor and the Commonwealth piled some forces in without any particular strategy because Eli was inactive.

BBD disagrees with you.

- EW gaining the TNP delegacy from JAL by default before Flemingovia restored order (EW was vocally supporting JALs bans)

Did you even read the thread you linked? Was Sedge also "vocally supporting JALs bans" from his post? You're aware it was EW who ejected JAL, right?

- EW appointing McM as Minister of Defense?

This one is factually accurate. Sorry McM, Numero don't like ya ;_;

- EW 'helping uncover' a UDL spy, which was 100% Eluvatar³ but EW happened to be MoD at the time

The resolution takes the time to explain that EW was the vocal proponent of investigating and resolving this incident, which was initially uncovered thanks to Elu. Apparently your MoD claim is wrong, kindly correct.

- and finally, the Nazi Europe thing

Call me old fashioned and a sentimental old fool, but I still think refounding NE was a good thing. Others may disagree, apparently.

Not sure how the resolution could be deemed (a) any good, precise or worthy of retention, and (b) justifies commending EW - but sure keep slinging insults everyone.

We'll be spending the next five days just trying to unpack which of your above statements are true, so kindly clarify when you can.

[Praeceps]

TL;JS but the real mistake was trusting Topid.

[Mallorea and Riva]

TL;JS but the real mistake was trusting Topid.

Wise words.

[Atheris]

Full support. No raider, regardless their intentions, should ever be commended.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Full support. No raider, regardless their intentions, should ever be commended.

Do you want to do the whole thing where I ask you what you mean by "raider" and we roll through the whole tired exercise, or was this a hit and run post? Just don't want to go through the hassle if you're not looking to play ball.

[Daytime to Night]

Can you point to a date that's actually off? Your source appears to be wildly inaccurate (and it actually states that it is not accurate since it was known at the time it was posted to miss entire delegacies), but you're still saying that my dates are incorrect in your post. I've broken down your revised post so people can keep track of what was right, what's ambiguous, and what is still just wrong.

Gladly, twice in the Killer Kitty clause refer to KK/EW being delegate in 2007. Dezzland and North Harmoneia were the only Delegates of Lazarus in 2007. Source: http://nsdossier.texasregion.net//histo ... d=20071231

you should feel bad, kindly correct.

I feel terrible, apologised and already corrected this. Unfortunately, it is too late for you to correct your poorly researched commendation.

- EW helping the Commonwealth 'organise a counter-coup' against ROLHEATH with a force of 40 WAs² (not 80-100 as wrongly described in the Commendation). In reality, Eli became inactive but refused to step down, TWP chose ROLHEATH as a successor and the Commonwealth piled some forces in without any particular strategy because Eli was inactive.

BBD disagrees with you.

If you check my source it is clear that the forces EW was in command of amounted to 40 WAs. It sounds like there were a handful of others from organisations outside of EW's control that joined, and if EW was responsible for overseeing all those then fair enough (the numbers don't take away from the contribution either way) - but it did seem like a gross exaggeration from the information I could find (which itself could have inflated the numbers based on the author).

Ultimately though, this wasn't a group of nations jumping in at update, it was 24 hours of piling - so doesn't stand out amongst most major modern day raids/liberations other than the fact that it was a GCR. Still, this is one of the few things I think stands up to scrutiny in the commendation.

Did you even read the thread you linked? Was Sedge also "vocally supporting JALs bans" from his post? You're aware it was EW who ejected JAL, right?

Yes, we were there pushing JAL out the delegacy. JAL and EW liked to run around defending each others actions and charges of treason at the time (as JAL did for EW only a few months before in TNP). EW is great at the poacher turned gamekeeper game.

- EW appointing McM as Minister of Defense?

This one is factually accurate. Sorry McM, Numero don't like ya ;_;

Not what I'm saying at all, just that McM is separately commended for their contributions and I don't like clauses that piggyback off another persons success (which is the same reason I regularly complain about Commendation authorship being including in SC proposals).

Apparently your MoD claim is wrong, kindly correct.

He was a General and in charge of the military, stop being petty.

- and finally, the Nazi Europe thing

Call me old fashioned and a sentimental old fool, but I still think refounding NE was a good thing. Others may disagree, apparently.

And when did I say it wasn't?

Not sure how the resolution could be deemed (a) any good, precise or worthy of retention, and (b) justifies commending EW - but sure keep slinging insults everyone.

We'll be spending the next five days just trying to unpack which of your above statements are true, so kindly clarify when you can.

Well if you would like to make a week of it what other well documented events can we chuck in...

Evil Wolf making LWU send undercover agents into TNP to influence the up-coming elections by voting for Limitless Events?

Evil Wolf's presence around every recent GCR coup of the last few years?

The fact we haven't even begun to dig into Evil Wolf's 15 years of raider activity?

Such a commendable individual... credit where it is due to you for getting this Commendation through in the first place.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Such a commendable individual... credit where it is due to you for getting this Commendation through in the first place.

I'm good at what I do. Your post has some broken quotes in it, would you mind correcting? Makes it easier to continue the discussion.

[Drop Your Pants]

I'm good at what I do. Your post has some broken quotes in it, would you mind correcting? Makes it easier to continue the discussion.

Only when its an inexperienced player Mall. Harder to do with someone used to you But i'm staying out of this mess, I'll let EW rewrite the Laz history.

[Aclion]

Oh come now, Mall. It was just a bit of fun.