[DEFEATED] Repeal "Commend Evil Wolf"

[Benevolent Thomas]

I support this effort. It will be the feel good moment of the summer, should it pass. You could lose the part about Nazi Europe part though and replace it with an actual misdeed, there are plenty of them out there. Hailing from 10KI, I believe you should include a clause about EW's petty banning of TITO nations from TNP. I think Wordy would like that

[McMasterdonia]

While I certainly hope this proposal fails, if this is to be introduced you should remove the clause about Nazi Europe. While some residents were evacuated, it is simply untrue that Evil Wolf's efforts had no significant impact. FIrstly, it was a significant moral victory against the nazis and secondly it did allow us to refound the region on our own terms, rather than waiting and hoping it could be hawked from them. Without Evil Wolf's efforts this would have been impossible for us to infiltrate the region and far more difficult to hawk it. It also does not really add anything significant to the proposal, other than giving talking points employed by Woodhouse and others about our refound effort further publication in a proposal, which frankly are inaccurate to start with.

[Evil Wolf]

Hailing from 10KI, I believe you should include a clause about EW's petty banning of TITO nations from TNP. I think Wordy would like that

Yes, I am sure that XKI would be thrilled if they could strip anyone they wanted of a Commend because that individual dared, dared, to eject their TITO Knight's puppets who were violating the sovereign rules of a GCR. Rules that they were warned of, repeatedly. Rules that they willfully ignored.

As much as XKI would love to tell other regions what laws they can and can not have, and how XKI can violate the laws of any GCR that XKI wants, the GCRs themselves probably have a different opinion entirely.

After all, I though I was suppose to be the raider of regions here, not XKI. Maybe we shouldn't call XKI a defender region at all.

[Daytime to Night]

Hailing from 10KI, I believe you should include a clause about EW's petty banning of TITO nations from TNP. I think Wordy would like that

Yes, I am sure that XKI would be thrilled if they could strip anyone they wanted of a Commend because that individual dared, dared, to eject their TITO Knight's puppets who were violating the sovereign rules of a GCR. Rules that they were warned of, repeatedly. Rules that they willfully ignored.

As much as XKI would love to tell other regions what laws they can and can not have, and how XKI can violate the laws of any GCR that XKI wants, the GCRs themselves probably have a different opinion entirely.

After all, I though I was suppose to be the raider of regions here, not XKI. Maybe we shouldn't call XKI a defender region at all.

Lol, because they move through any and every feeder region? Stop playing dumb EW

Many Defenders have always done that because they don't need their own region/jump point to show up on the regional happenings of the regions they defend. It is about protecting regions for the sake of the regions you protect, rather than seeking attention from it, and the same reason you don't see gloat posts from TITO.

Fighting the repeal of your own commendation by snapping at the heels of those who actually do commendable things consistently and regularly shows how unworthy you were of this Commendation in the first place

[Evil Wolf]

Lol, because they move through any and every feeder region? Stop playing dumb EW

The law is the law. Even if XKI doesn't respect it.

It should be noted that they weren't the only region who got banned for employing such tactics. MikesHope of NationStates got his recruiting puppet banned around the same period, for example. His nation was unbanned, however, when he TG me to apologize and pledged to obey TNP's rules regarding spam. XKI, on the other hand, continues to this day, 9 years after the fact, to gripe and whine about the oh so oppressive raider oppression they had to suffer through by being force to be subjected to the same TNP rules of spam that everyone else had to obey. I don't regret not giving them special treatment. Do better.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Lol, because they move through any and every feeder region? Stop playing dumb EW

The law is the law. Even if XKI doesn't respect it.

It should be noted that they weren't the only region who got banned for employing such tactics. MikesHope of NationStates got his recruiting puppet banned around the same period, for example. His nation was unbanned, however, when he TG me to apologize and pledged to obey TNP's rules regarding spam. XKI, on the other hand, continues to this day, 9 years after the fact, to gripe and whine about the oh so oppressive raider oppression they had to suffer through by being force to be subjected to the same TNP rules of spam that everyone else had to obey. I don't regret not giving them special treatment. Do better.

I can pretty much guarantee this will be one of the many reasons people in TNP will oppose this repeal.

[Marxist Germany]

OOC: I have removed the downplay of the raid on NE since it seems I was mistaken with regards to its significance. I have instead replaced the clause with better reasoning. Lastly, I will not be adding the part about petty TITO bans since it seems it was applied to everyone, I will instead likely find some other deplorable actions taken by EW during his TNP times.

[Gorundu]

I will instead likely find some other deplorable actions taken by EW during his TNP times.

There are none, so good luck.
But on the off chance you find any, perhaps it would be good material to include in a separate condemnation.

[Bormiar]

The current NE statement doesn’t even give a reason why it’s not commendable. It just says that it isn’t.

It also seems dishonest to write a proposal off of fished reasoning.

[Marxist Germany]

The current NE statement doesn’t even give a reason why it’s not commendable. It just says that it isn’t.

It also seems dishonest to write a proposal off of fished reasoning.

OOC: It is self-evident as to why destroying one region isn't commendable in of itself, especially with all the bad EW has done.

[Bormiar]

The current NE statement doesn’t even give a reason why it’s not commendable. It just says that it isn’t.

It also seems dishonest to write a proposal off of fished reasoning.

OOC: It is self-evident as to why destroying one region isn't commendable in of itself, especially with all the bad EW has done.

Would it not be commendable or condemnable; i.e. significant to destroy a big region like 10KI? A feeder? Etc.

The simple concept of NE, as opposed to NE itself, tormented the Security Council far more than you might think. Just search NE in the WA archives. Refounding NE was a moral victory for it as well as gameplay.

Unless, of course, you come in with your mind already made up. In that case, anything you write is self-evident.

[Marxist Germany]

OOC: It is self-evident as to why destroying one region isn't commendable in of itself, especially with all the bad EW has done.

Would it not be commendable or condemnable; i.e. significant to destroy a big region like 10KI? A feeder? Etc.

The simple concept of NE, as opposed to NE itself, tormented the Security Council far more than you might think. Just search NE in the WA archives. Refounding NE was a moral victory for it as well as gameplay.

Unless, of course, you come in with your mind already made up. In that case, anything you write is self-evident.

OOC: Destroying XKI or couping a feeder on its own is not commendable/condemnable; furthermore, NE is nowhere even close to the significance of the largest UCRs and GCRs of yet.

[Bormiar]

Would it not be commendable or condemnable; i.e. significant to destroy a big region like 10KI? A feeder? Etc.

The simple concept of NE, as opposed to NE itself, tormented the Security Council far more than you might think. Just search NE in the WA archives. Refounding NE was a moral victory for it as well as gameplay.

Unless, of course, you come in with your mind already made up. In that case, anything you write is self-evident.

OOC: Destroying XKI or couping a feeder on its own is not commendable/condemnable

Successfully? The waves that would have through NationStates would be tremendous.

You can be the one person to believe that statement.

Edit: oh and by the way, EW wasn’t just commended for NE.

[Daytime to Night]

You may also want to include Evil Wolf's attempted coup of the South Pacific as the nation Pope Panzer, which was nipped in the bud before it gathered any pace.

Depending on how detailed you wanted to go you could go into EW's threats to destroy any defender forum they got their hands on in 2005, or their attempts to goad the FRA into using dirty tactics in 2011.

As is evident from Sedge's post earlier (and the culture that EW has built in LWU over more than a decade), duplicitous behaviour and anti-defender rhetoric follow EW wherever he goes and he only ever acts in self-interest . Its also no surprise that LWU has been more successful in the times when EW has the least involvement in their day-to-day operations, and Lazarus has built a positive and stable community when he largely disappeared from activity there.

It is no accident that EW jumped into the two ex-ADN feeders, the West Pacific and the North Pacific and eventually started a raider military in the West and re-started the NPA as a non-defender military in the North. Or that they participated in the Wolfist efforts to remove 'defender subversives' from Lazarus shortly after the FRA shut down.

Their modus operandi is to throw in enough good deeds that they can manipulate regions to achieve their selfish personal goals. It is a failure of the Security Council that it suckered up the act enough to commend him rather than showing any intelligent discernment.

[Domais]

From reading the old logs both the CU and UDL were wrong and they both broke their own laws, when both sides break their laws you can't say that either said was right in the end. Furthermore, the Khanate was a joke I don't think the SC should factor in jokes in their resolutions. EW has done both "good" and "bad" actions and is deserving of this badge, so I'm against and am hoping that this proposal fails.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Other than a 15 year old mountain of defender salt, there's no reason to repeal the Commendation. As with prior repeal attempts, I expect the Nazi factions to show up shortly to voice their approval of the author's efforts.

[Daytime to Night]

Would it not be commendable or condemnable; i.e. significant to destroy a big region like 10KI? A feeder? Etc.

The simple concept of NE, as opposed to NE itself, tormented the Security Council far more than you might think. Just search NE in the WA archives. Refounding NE was a moral victory for it as well as gameplay

Really struggling to reconcile this position with your (reasonable) strong opposition to the Commend Riakou proposal. In that case you were quite clear that actions in a single event against a fascist region were not worthy of a Commendation. Now you seem to be arguing the opposite?

You, when that was proposed:

"Could one of the authors - or frankly anyone - explain why an hour of ejecting is at all meriting one of NationStates greatest awards? It frankly feels insulting"

Other than a 15 year old mountain of defender salt, there's no reason to repeal the Commendation. As with prior repeal attempts, I expect the Nazi factions to show up shortly to voice their approval of the author's efforts.

So "defender/XKI salt" and a half-hearted cry of 'Nazi Europe' is the full extent of the attempt to defend this commendation.

I expected better, but I guess you all saw the laundry list of reasons that people can give for this repeal and got lazy.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Other than a 15 year old mountain of defender salt, there's no reason to repeal the Commendation. As with prior repeal attempts, I expect the Nazi factions to show up shortly to voice their approval of the author's efforts.

So "defender/XKI salt" and a half-hearted cry of 'Nazi Europe' is the full extent of the attempt to defend this commendation.

I expected better, but I guess you all saw the laundry list of reasons that people can give for this repeal and got lazy.

Historically speaking that's all I've ever needed to say, so you'll forgive me if I don't put on my crampons to climb Salt Mountain to fight the Woodhouse Yeti that lives at the top.

Expecting better of me is the first step towards being disappointed.

[Kuriko]

Can someone point to me where moving through a feeder region, TNP in particular, is spam? A feeders on-page activity feed is cleared within minutes, and we leave no trace behind. Also, it's not against site rules. Is there a TNP law I don't know about?? Honest question, not trying to be stupid.

[Bormiar]

Would it not be commendable or condemnable; i.e. significant to destroy a big region like 10KI? A feeder? Etc.

The simple concept of NE, as opposed to NE itself, tormented the Security Council far more than you might think. Just search NE in the WA archives. Refounding NE was a moral victory for it as well as gameplay

Really struggling to reconcile this position with your (reasonable) strong opposition to the Commend Riakou proposal. In that case you were quite clear that actions in a single event against a fascist region were not worthy of a Commendation. Now you seem to be arguing the opposite?

You, when that was proposed:

"Could one of the authors - or frankly anyone - explain why an hour of ejecting is at all meriting one of NationStates greatest awards? It frankly feels insulting"

I'm coming at this with the context of the rest of the info in the resolution.

If the entire resolution were about NE, I would be opposed for the same reason as in Commend Riakou.

NE is a supplement to the rest of the proposal.

[A Bloodred Moon]

Depending on how detailed you wanted to go you could go into EW's threats to destroy any defender forum they got their hands on in 2005, or their attempts to goad the FRA into using dirty tactics in 2011.

Weren’t you trying to repeal the condemnation for forum destruction of the ASE, forum destructions that did actually happen? Or should it only be forgotten when defenders do it?

It is no accident that EW jumped into the two ex-ADN feeders, the West Pacific and the North Pacific and eventually started a raider military in the West and re-started the NPA as a non-defender military in the North. Or that they participated in the Wolfist efforts to remove 'defender subversives' from Lazarus shortly after the FRA shut down.

Are you really spinning the current NPA being started by Evil Wolf as a negative? I’d hope they’re paying close attention.

In that case you were quite clear that actions in a single event against a fascist region were not worthy of a Commendation.

Yes. Did you read the commendation? Because if you did, you’d know it doesn’t commend Evil Wolf for a single event against a fascist region. Bormiar did not contradict himself there.

So "defender/XKI salt" and a half-hearted cry of 'Nazi Europe' is the full extent of the attempt to defend this commendation.

Selective reading. Get off your high horse, Numero - you can’t criticise others for putting in little effort when you yourself can’t be bothered to read the thread.

[Tinhampton]

Can someone point to me where moving through a feeder region, TNP in particular, is spam? A feeders on-page activity feed is cleared within minutes, and we leave no trace behind. Also, it's not against site rules. Is there a TNP law I don't know about?? Honest question, not trying to be stupid.

Where is your proof that 10000 Islanders were merely moving through TNP for no particular reason during Blue Wolf II's Delegacy (rather than using it as a launching point for recruitment adspam)?

[Kuriko]

Can someone point to me where moving through a feeder region, TNP in particular, is spam? A feeders on-page activity feed is cleared within minutes, and we leave no trace behind. Also, it's not against site rules. Is there a TNP law I don't know about?? Honest question, not trying to be stupid.

Where is your proof that 10000 Islanders were merely moving through TNP for no particular reason during Blue Wolf II's Delegacy (rather than using it as a launching point for recruitment adspam)?

10000 Islanders don't usually move to regions for no particular reason Tin, especially TITO Members. I would assume it was our normal Pac Jumping, but I wasn't around back then and don't know.

[HumanSanity]

Can someone point to me where moving through a feeder region, TNP in particular, is spam? A feeders on-page activity feed is cleared within minutes, and we leave no trace behind. Also, it's not against site rules. Is there a TNP law I don't know about?? Honest question, not trying to be stupid.

Where is your proof that 10000 Islanders were merely moving through TNP for no particular reason during Blue Wolf II's Delegacy (rather than using it as a launching point for recruitment adspam)?

Seems like the burden of proof would be on you to prove they were engaging in adspam, rather than the other way around.

But either way, MG said it's not going in the proposal. BT pretty clearly threw it out there as a joke. We may as well stop acting like the proposal is some ten year old XKI sniping at EW over something really stupid since this is certainly the smallest of potatoes of EW's evils and/or goods, regardless of which side you fall on, and MG probably had no idea about the incident when he started writing.

[Benevolent Thomas]

Where is your proof that 10000 Islanders were merely moving through TNP for no particular reason during Blue Wolf II's Delegacy (rather than using it as a launching point for recruitment adspam)?

10000 Islanders don't usually move to regions for no particular reason Tin, especially TITO Members. I would assume it was our normal Pac Jumping, but I wasn't around back then and don't know.

Pac Jumping was the reason.