[DRAFT] Condemn Fedele

[Praeceps]

Whoa whoa whoa. Submitted already?

There's a lot to talk about here and given you have no time for feedback (on a matter which is not time sensitive): against. I will list all the other reasons to oppose if/when this gets to vote.

Nevermind. Still opposed.

Yup, it's my bad still. For this one, I will sincerely apologize for my personal mistake for rushing it. I got a bit excited about that part.

As stated previously in the liberation resolution, we are about to see one of the largest regions in NS fall into a dictatorship. I hope that your plan is not to "leave them be" and wait for an international coalition against them, because that amount of delegations is impossible.

I know your plan to represent CCD in the WA leaves you somewhat ignorant of the greater going ons in the game but surely you can notice that regions are not twiddling their thumbs.

Multiple regions acted to support the Delegacy transition this past minor. While banjections occured, I am sure there will be further action at major.

[The tanks of herp]

Fedele is big stanky

[Youssath]

I know your plan to represent CCD in the WA leaves you somewhat ignorant of the greater going ons in the game but surely you can notice that regions are not twiddling their thumbs.

Multiple regions acted to support the Delegacy transition this past minor. While banjections occured, I am sure there will be further action at major.

If it is the best I can do in my capacity at the moment, then I will give my best for this moment.

[Kuriko]

Unnecessary glory symbol to give Fedele, one that he'll be looking to attain.

Really couldn't have said it better myself.

[Marxist Germany]

Unnecessary glory symbol to give Fedele, one that he'll be looking to attain.

Really couldn't have said it better myself.

OOC: The problem with this reasoning is that bad people dont get punished. If someone wants to go to prison and commits a crime do we let them get away with it?

[Frisbeeteria]

Fedele is big stanky

We're not going to put up with gameplay-style flaming here. Knock it off, NOW.

[Youssath]

Unnecessary glory symbol to give Fedele, one that he'll be looking to attain.

Really couldn't have said it better myself.

So he has attempted the following:

• A coup d'état against one of the most democratically representative regions in NationStates;
• Attempted foreign influence in the 2019 June Delegate elections;
• Associated with LWU and the Rahl family, who are instrumental in the current coup d'état along with previous warmongering history;
• Grossly violated TEP's regional laws, notably the Endorsement Caps Act;
• Dismissing Viziers which could have threatened the security of TEP if foreign raiders were to attack TEP;
• Dismissing, yet again, a democratically-elected Delegate-elect after the election; and
• Removing "marsupials" from TEP through massive banjections, similar to some discrimination program imposed back in some certain country in Europe.

Yeah, by your logic, this type of behaviour shouldn't warrant a condemnation resolution as a whole, right? If you are not going to support that, despite that wanton disregard of basic rule of law, then what exactly is the purpose of the Security Council? We should be actively condemning this type of behaviour, since these kinds of actions are already way beyond what is deemed acceptable for any reasonable nation in the World Assembly. To simply say that he is not worthy of a condemnation by the international community, is to say that his actions are not deemed worthy enough for international matters and that his actions are not heavy enough to be considered in the Security Council.

There is a certain line to be drawn here, and that line has been crossed by heaps and miles. This is not giving Fedele an unnecessary glory symbol, given the weight of his crimes here.

[WayNeacTia]

Really couldn't have said it better myself.

OOC: The problem with this reasoning is that bad people dont get punished. If someone wants to go to prison and commits a crime do we let them get away with it?

What punishment would this be? Hmm? Is it going to strip him of the delegacy? No. Is it going to restore the region? No. All it is going to do is give him a badge for couping a region. Not worth it. Perhaps you should brush up on gameplay diplomacy.

I know your plan to represent CCD in the WA leaves you somewhat ignorant of the greater going ons in the game but surely you can notice that regions are not twiddling their thumbs.

Multiple regions acted to support the Delegacy transition this past minor. While banjections occured, I am sure there will be further action at major.

If it is the best I can do in my capacity at the moment, then I will give my best for this moment.

Half baked backdoor attempt at trying to grab an authorship badge? No thanks, and even if I were to support a condemnation of Fed, I would be more likely to support one coming from a far more experienced author.

[Peatiktist]

Unnecessary glory symbol to give Fedele, one that he'll be looking to attain.

Really couldn't have said it better myself.

Here's the thing.
Condemnations are not 'glory symbols'.

[WayNeacTia]

Really couldn't have said it better myself.

Here's the thing.
Condemnations are not 'glory symbols'.

Yeah, they are.

[Refuge Isle]

Really couldn't have said it better myself.

Here's the thing.
Condemnations are not 'glory symbols'.

They're awarded to who best plays the villain. Which is also fine.

[Peatiktist]

Here's the thing.
Condemnations are not 'glory symbols'.

Yeah, they are.

If they are just glory symbols, then why doesn't every person try to get one?

[Lord Dominator]

This isn't even a well-done coup (ie, that I can respect for being well-done evil) so opposed.

[Youssath]

This isn't even a well-done coup (ie, that I can respect for being well-done evil) so opposed.

I understand where you are coming from, and that the political situation within The East Pacific is paving the way for Fedele's defeat, but surely you can see more than just the coup attempt he has committed a few hours ago and that he has been pre-emptively trying to abolish the democratic foundations of The East Pacific? (attempted to rig June elections, kicked off unwanted non-WA nations and etc.)

Furthermore, this isn't aimed at the people of The East Pacific. It is aimed to denounce the character of Fedele for attempting to destroy one of the most established regions in NationStates. As a North Pacifician yourself, I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from.

[Lord Dominator]

This isn't even a well-done coup (ie, that I can respect for being well-done evil) so opposed.

I understand where you are coming from, and that the political situation within The East Pacific is paving the way for Fedele's defeat, but surely you can see more than just the coup attempt he has committed a few hours ago and that he has been pre-emptively trying to abolish the democratic foundations of The East Pacific? (attempted to rig June elections, kicked off unwanted non-WA nations and etc.)

No I get that, what I mean is that even including that he those things so poorly that he wasn't able to maintain this for probably more than 24 hours.

Basically, all his coup planning (which likely includes all that) was poorly done relative to his goals.

[Youssath]

I understand where you are coming from, and that the political situation within The East Pacific is paving the way for Fedele's defeat, but surely you can see more than just the coup attempt he has committed a few hours ago and that he has been pre-emptively trying to abolish the democratic foundations of The East Pacific? (attempted to rig June elections, kicked off unwanted non-WA nations and etc.)

No I get that, what I mean is that even including that he those things so poorly that he wasn't able to maintain this for probably more than 24 hours.

Basically, all his coup planning (which likely includes all that) was poorly done relative to his goals.

I will have to agree with you on that. His coup attempt to destabilize The East Pacific was poorly done in good taste.

[Wabbitslayah]

Yeah, they are.

If they are just glory symbols, then why doesn't every person try to get one?

Because people have standards on who deserves them. It wasn't exactly a glory symbol originally, but easily became one. So now to get a Condemnation you need to be up to standard as a Commendation (Just the "negative" inverse). Most people would like to be Commended I would assume, but there are people that try to get either all the time and are not up to par for either.

[Youssath]

Yeah, they are.

Trust me, it costed me my time to do the following research and drafting of this resolution at hand here. If you think condemnations are glory symbols to be acquired, why don't you craft out one for yourself?

Because people have standards on who deserves them. It wasn't exactly a glory symbol originally, but easily became one. So now to get a Condemnation you need to be up to standard as a Commendation (Just the "negative" inverse). Most people would like to be Commended I would assume, but there are people that try to get either all the time and are not up to par for either.

Furthermore, on the subject of condemnation, I think Fedele has committed enough high crimes with his continuous attacks on democratic elections and laws through foreign influence to warrant a condemnation by the Security Council. This was obviously pre-meditated.

[Marilyn Manson Freaks]

He doesn't deserve one. The entire coup was sloppy.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

He doesn't deserve one. The entire coup was sloppy.

Yeah, failed within 24 hours. A couper who wins and consolidates their position of power for a long period of time could well be worthy of the badge, but this?

[East Meranopirus]

Yeah, they are.

Trust me, it costed me my time to do the following research and drafting of this resolution at hand here. If you think condemnations are glory symbols to be acquired, why don't you craft out one for yourself?

Because people have standards on who deserves them. It wasn't exactly a glory symbol originally, but easily became one. So now to get a Condemnation you need to be up to standard as a Commendation (Just the "negative" inverse). Most people would like to be Commended I would assume, but there are people that try to get either all the time and are not up to par for either.

Furthermore, on the subject of condemnation, I think Fedele has committed enough high crimes with his continuous attacks on democratic elections and laws through foreign influence to warrant a condemnation by the Security Council. This was obviously pre-meditated.

Literally everyone's been telling you a condemnation is seen as a badge of honour, and that Fedele couldn't even coup long enough to have any permanent effect on the region.

Have you tried actually reading passed Security Council resolutions? A failed coup of 24 hours doesn't appear on any of them, it seems. One needs to be competent in couping to attain a condemnation badge.

[Concrete Slab]

This wasn't just your average coup though. The guy had total control of one of the largest GCRs in the world. It was definitely one of the most chaos inducing things I've ever seen.

[Flanderlion]

He doesn't deserve one. The entire coup was sloppy.

Yeah, failed within 24 hours. A couper who wins and consolidates their position of power for a long period of time could well be worthy of the badge, but this?

Maybe the distraction is the coup. What if he wanted to resign cit but not offend anyone in the region? Or was tired of slow delegate transitions so wanted NS to make it a fast one?

[Youssath]

Literally everyone's been telling you a condemnation is seen as a badge of honour, and that Fedele couldn't even coup long enough to have any permanent effect on the region.

Have you tried actually reading passed Security Council resolutions? A failed coup of 24 hours doesn't appear on any of them, it seems. One needs to be competent in couping to attain a condemnation badge.

If the delegation over here can read the proposal for once, he would be shocked to find that the coup d'état was simply an argument for the condemnation, but not the argument for it. If it was the latter, then I would have apologized back then. However, are we going to exclude how he attempted to interfere with his own elections with foreign influence, let alone with his association with radical raiders known for coups?

This isn't just about the coup itself here. It's about the character of Fedele. Call him a failed villain if you want, but a condemnation is exactly what we are going to do to address this sort of unwarranted behaviour. I'm absolutely sure that the residents in East Pacific can come into terms with that.

The idea that "this condemnation is merely just an honour badge!" is a farce to begin with. I would suggest getting some actual facts as to what Fedele has done rather than degrading what the Security Council commonly does, which is issuing out condemnations and commendations for members in the international community. As I have told Wayneactia, if a condemnation is an honour badge to begin with, then shouldn't everyone be attempting to self-commend or self-condemn themselves for these wacky badges?

[East Meranopirus]

Literally everyone's been telling you a condemnation is seen as a badge of honour, and that Fedele couldn't even coup long enough to have any permanent effect on the region.

Have you tried actually reading passed Security Council resolutions? A failed coup of 24 hours doesn't appear on any of them, it seems. One needs to be competent in couping to attain a condemnation badge.

If the delegation over here can read the proposal for once, he would be shocked to find that the coup d'état was simply an argument for the condemnation, but not the argument for it. If it was the latter, then I would have apologized back then. However, are we going to exclude how he attempted to interfere with his own elections with foreign influence, let alone with his association with radical raiders known for coups?

This isn't just about the coup itself here. It's about the character of Fedele. Call him a failed villain if you want, but a condemnation is exactly what we are going to do to address this sort of unwarranted behaviour. I'm absolutely sure that the residents in East Pacific can come into terms with that.

The idea that "this condemnation is merely just an honour badge!" is a farce to begin with. I would suggest getting some actual facts as to what Fedele has done rather than degrading what the Security Council commonly does, which is issuing out condemnations and commendations for members in the international community. As I have told Wayneactia, if a condemnation is an honour badge to begin with, then shouldn't everyone be attempting to self-commend or self-condemn themselves for these wacky badges?

Fedele has been attention-seeking this whole time. You can see how much he's enjoying it with the constant switching of Regional Officers, keeping people on edge but never quite sure if he was going to coup or not. To get a condemnation would be exactly what he was hoping for. You want to reward him for his behaviour? A condemnation like this would have the exact opposite effect that you intend, because everyone would know as long as they make a coup attempt, they can earn notoriety and get a badge for it. The idea that "this condemnation is merely just an honour badge!" is the truth, based on the fact that all condemnations are honour badges. Just ask anyone who's gotten a condemnation. Most condemnations are passed with the nominee's explicit approval. It's not my fault you hadn't taken the time to know the gameplay community's perspective on condemnations, and the community's views on Fedele, and instead chose to isolate yourself in CCD woefully unaware.

I'm absolutely sure that the residents in East Pacific can come into terms with that.

How about asking the residents of The East Pacific, who neither want nor need this? Just see Wallenburg and Tim Stark's responses.

if a condemnation is an honour badge to begin with, then shouldn't everyone be attempting to self-commend or self-condemn

I don't know what your logic is here, but that's precisely the reason the community frowns upon self-condemns, and thus the reason why no one attempts it, because they never pass.