Reploid Productions wrote:Let's get back to the topic of the proposed repeal of the liberation, shall we?
OOC: Thank you Reppy, *leaves grindstone*
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by Marxist Germany » Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:29 am
Reploid Productions wrote:Let's get back to the topic of the proposed repeal of the liberation, shall we?
by Youssath » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:01 am
Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: Thank you Reppy, *leaves grindstone*
by East Meranopirus » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:18 am
Youssath wrote:Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: Thank you Reppy, *leaves grindstone*
One must always equip himself with a helmet of resistance before the inevitable.
Still, I am awaiting legal defense responses to my arguments here, and I will still happily support this resolution as the justifications for liberation have been nothing but a fluke.
Youssath wrote:Clause 1: While it is an undeniable fact that the CCD has been known to openly embrace fascism and relates to it, such sentiments are not felt amongst the entire region here. If there is anything that I would describe the CCD, it is mostly "ultranationalistic" and "authoritarianism". True, their political standing may be far-right, but far-right is not equivalent to being fascist to speak since the fascist ideology incorporates anti-Semitism into practice, something that is evidently not practised here in the CCD.
Furthermore, the World Assembly is supposed to be an international representative body made up of diverse groups from different upbringings. While the mission of the World Assembly is to promote the furtherment of democracy, the CCD has, at the very minimum, established the Civil Congress to take the input of its members into consideration. While the whole system is still autocratic by nature, some semblance of democracy should still be considered and that the political identity of a region should not be solely judged by itself.
This is not mentioning the fact of how easy it is to register yourself as a region within NationStates, and within a few minutes, you got yourself a new region to call it home. If this new region were to embrace authoritarianism and nationalistic sentiments, is this new region destined to be disliked by the international community despite having no history or interactions with the other regional blocs of NationStates? Hell, what if a large region were to support authoritarianism movements because of the popular will of the people and its members? Is it justified to call for a "liberation" if the majority of its members support the current constitution of the region? And who is to play God and be righteous to determine whether democracy or autocracy is to be the progress of humanity.
Clause 2: The idea and concept that a liberation is warranted because a region has decided to exercise its sovereign rights in its self-determination to make their own friends is ridiculous, to say the least. It's like saying that because this kid made friends with all of the nerds in his class, he too should be labelled as a "nerd" as well and be bullied too. Does that seem logical and fair to say the least?
If maintaining good diplomatic relations in the spirit of comradeship and regional stability is to be seen as an excuse for liberation, then this very august council serves nothing more than being a bureaucratic waste of time except for the warmongers. Seriously, I believe that the majority of the regions here have established diplomatic relations with a few bad apples here, does that make them look inherently bad? CCD may be different than your average region out there, but if this sort of an excuse can be given as justification for a liberation, then everyone here is guilty as hell for making friends with an "evil wrongdoer".
Clause 3: Till this point, I have not seen any concrete or fool-proof evidence that evidently shows the mandatory indoctrination of its ideology or worse yet, fascism, into new nations and turning them into mindless servants. All nations are free to leave as they please, and unless the author can at least bring proof that the CCD is guilty of indoctrinating new nations into this hateful ideology, then I must say that this is rather a garbage attempt at trying to slander and make baseless conjecture of what the region actually is.
Clause 4: While this is absolutely true and I don't condone this type of behaviour, this reason alone does not serve enough justification as to why the CCD is deserving of a liberation. Self-commendations is annoying in nature, not to mention the badge hunting and all, but the nature of this offence is not serious enough to warrant the liberation of 700 nations, is it?
Clause 6: Once again, running off with that rhetoric that the CCD indoctrinate fascism to young nations and that it is harmful to the international community. The CCD only serves to represent the other portion, the next majority as so to speak, of the international community in the WA. We don't abduct or force nations in the CCD, they can come in as so as they please, see what they like and don't like, and decide for themselves whether they think this region represent their best interests. Our way of defining ourselves is simply our culture, and just as you are entitled to yours - so are we. Surprising, isn't it?
by Blood Wine » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:17 am
Elke and Elba wrote:Well Mall, you want Haven? I'd want your Joint Systems Alliance badge, then.
Discoveria wrote:Port blood is a raider through and through. Honest.
Tim-Opolis wrote:The Salt Mines will be fueled for months by the tears of silly fascists.
[4:27 PM] Antigone: Port Blood = Gameplay JesusSedgistan wrote:Attempted threadjack on sandwiches and satanism removed.
by Marxist Germany » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:23 am
Blood Wine wrote:Oh boy the circus is back in town
What makes you think you'll succceed where it has failed 3+ times before?
by Blood Wine » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:28 am
Elke and Elba wrote:Well Mall, you want Haven? I'd want your Joint Systems Alliance badge, then.
Discoveria wrote:Port blood is a raider through and through. Honest.
Tim-Opolis wrote:The Salt Mines will be fueled for months by the tears of silly fascists.
[4:27 PM] Antigone: Port Blood = Gameplay JesusSedgistan wrote:Attempted threadjack on sandwiches and satanism removed.
by Marshite Ponies » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:51 am
by Old Bhutan » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:03 am
by MineLegotia and Equestria » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:58 am
Old Bhutan wrote:I oppose the liberation but on the basis of it being a trophy and completely useless, not because CCD pulled one of its racist homophobic buddies to create controversy and make themselves relevant
Recent News: Imperial Regent strengthens Anti-Corruption Offices after Scandal | Minister of FA found after Ministry Blackout; Cults Blamed | 'Caplanbourgh surrender not in sight' says Minister of Defense | Parliament to pass 3843/383/23/04/2389
by Youssath » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:28 am
MineLegotia and Equestria wrote:Anyways, these types of Proposals have a lot of good points, but due to how biased some people are, it'll never pass
by Lord Dominator » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:58 am
by Marxist Germany » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:21 am
by Wabbitslayah » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:18 pm
by Lord Dominator » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:24 pm
Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: There is not much debate going on here about the actual proposal, if there isnt any, this is a sign that it is ready for submission, I will give this two more weeks probably before submitting, unless people start giving feedback.
by Refuge Isle » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:43 pm
Convinced that being a fascist region does not justify a liberation,
Recognising that the purpose of a Security Council Liberation is to protect nations from a delegate imposed password placed by occupying raiders,
by Lord Dominator » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:49 pm
by Marxist Germany » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:01 am
by WayNeacTia » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:46 am
Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: I have removed the convinced clause, but I still believe that the only purpose of a liberation is to protect from raiders, condemnations exist for a reason.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac
wait
by Marxist Germany » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:29 am
Wayneactia wrote:Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: I have removed the convinced clause, but I still believe that the only purpose of a liberation is to protect from raiders, condemnations exist for a reason.
Whilst I agree, this will fail spectacularly. It does need to be repealed, but it won't happen. I suggest you drop this. It is not worth sacrificing your possible career on this.
by Bhang Bhang Duc » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:41 am
Marxist Germany wrote:Wayneactia wrote:
Whilst I agree, this will fail spectacularly. It does need to be repealed, but it won't happen. I suggest you drop this. It is not worth sacrificing your possible career on this.
OOC: I shall drop this for now, until the community changes its mind on offensive Liberations, which in that case Ill bring it back.
Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.
RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.
Sedgistan wrote:The SC has just has a spate of really shitty ones recently from Northumbria, his Watermelon fanboy…..
by East Meranopirus » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:47 am
by WayNeacTia » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:09 am
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac
wait
by Baltimare State » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:38 pm
Wayneactia wrote:Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:In this case I think it’s more a case of the community changing its mind about CoCD, not offensive Liberations.
Offensive libs are useless unless a region is founderless. Passing them as a way of punishing a region, on a hope that a founder will be deleted is at best disingenuous, and is a serious abuse of the function. The better strategy is to isolate the region and use every means possible to prevent that region from gaining any attention, including voting against, and counter campaigning any resolution that happens to come out a member of said region. Once people realize that they will not get anything done as long as they are a member, they may change their tune and leave the region, thus actually punishing the region.
Walk softly, but carry a big stick.
by Blood Wine » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:16 am
Elke and Elba wrote:Well Mall, you want Haven? I'd want your Joint Systems Alliance badge, then.
Discoveria wrote:Port blood is a raider through and through. Honest.
Tim-Opolis wrote:The Salt Mines will be fueled for months by the tears of silly fascists.
[4:27 PM] Antigone: Port Blood = Gameplay JesusSedgistan wrote:Attempted threadjack on sandwiches and satanism removed.
by WayNeacTia » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:35 am
Baltimare State wrote:Wayneactia wrote:
Offensive libs are useless unless a region is founderless. Passing them as a way of punishing a region, on a hope that a founder will be deleted is at best disingenuous, and is a serious abuse of the function. The better strategy is to isolate the region and use every means possible to prevent that region from gaining any attention, including voting against, and counter campaigning any resolution that happens to come out a member of said region. Once people realize that they will not get anything done as long as they are a member, they may change their tune and leave the region, thus actually punishing the region.
Walk softly, but carry a big stick.
Or, it would radicalize them even more. Isolation means the creation of an echo chamber, the more you isolate them, the less likely they’ll change. They’ll most likely hear everything you say, and you’ll never hear anything they say of you as you isolate them.
The longer this goes on, the more radical they become. If you shut somebody down for their opinions, they’ll be scared and change their opinions, or... they become convinced their opinions are correct, and you are just scared about the truth. They become emboldened, more confident, more willing to initiate a “Crusade” against your ideals in the name of theirs.
I have a friend who has seen this first hand, and he told me, “The more a enemy group(s) pushes a group with a specific ideal, the more United they become,”. The more a coalition is formed against them, the more likely they will believe in their cause.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac
wait
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