[Abandoned] Repeal "Liberate CoCD"

[Marxist Germany]

Repeal "Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators"
Category: Repeal | Target: SC#263 | Proposed by: Germany

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The World Assembly,

Aware of the fascist nations present within the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators; herein known as the CCD, and the numerous embassies with fascist regions,

Believing that abuse of Security Council Liberations will lead to Liberations becoming unwanted by regions that genuinely need them,

Further believing that regions not wanting to be liberated should not be liberated,

Concerned by the abuse of a Security Council Liberation in the target resolution,

Recognising that the purpose of a Security Council Liberation is to protect nations from a delegate imposed password placed by occupying raiders,

Observing that the CCD has an active founder; one that is unlikely to cease to exist or leave the region anytime in the near future, over 600 nations, and a non executive delegate with over 200 endorsements,

Noting that there are 4 other natives with over 100 endorsements that could receive delegacy shall the founder cease to exist,

Further noting that the founder can set a password that the liberation cannot remove; rendering it useless,

Discerning that the target resolution's main purpose is to help raiders topple down the region, yet that is near impossible as the region is well protected and too large to invade,

Deploring how much attention the target has given to the CCD, helping them grow; which defeats the purpose of the liberation,

Hereby,

Repeals Security Council Resolution number 263; Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A FASCIST AND DO NOT ENDORSE FASCISM, I AM WRITING THIS BECAUSE I OPPOSE OFFENSIVE LIBERATIONS AND THE CCD IS NOT GOING DOWN ANYTIME SOON. Thank you.

[Praeceps]

Observing that the CCD has an active founder, over 600 nations, and a non executive delegate with over 200 endorsements,

Noting that there are 4 other natives with over 100 endorsements that could receive delegacy shall the founder cease to exist,

I'm going to skip the entire "offensive liberations" debate and just address these two clauses.

The active founder is the Delegate. This reduces the opposition posed where the founder to be deleted eventually (which is the assumption the liberation makes) as the Delegate will be deleted as well (if a deletion occurs).

Secondly, you'll find that having 100 endorsements is not an obstacle for a region that pretty much everyone in NS dislikes.

I'm not sure that these two clauses help your argument.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A FASCIST AND DO NOT ENDORSE FASCISM, I AM WRITING THIS BECAUSE I OPPOSE OFFENSIVE LIBERATIONS AND THE CCD IS NOT GOING DOWN ANYTIME SOON. Thank you.

MG is fascist and endorses fascism!

[Marxist Germany]

I'm going to skip the entire "offensive liberations" debate and just address these two clauses.

The active founder is the Delegate. This reduces the opposition posed where the founder to be deleted eventually (which is the assumption the liberation makes) as the Delegate will be deleted as well (if a deletion occurs).

Secondly, you'll find that having 100 endorsements is not an obstacle for a region that pretty much everyone in NS dislikes.

I'm not sure that these two clauses help your argument.

OOC: Yes, Jocospor is also the delegate that's true, but the odds of Jocospor getting deleted are slim, I think he has only been smacked once by moderation and he's got a couple of infractions before he gets deleted.

Your second point is, that 100 endorsements is not an obstacle I disagree with. Firstly, I'm fairly certain SLL or whoever succeeds Joco will probably be endorsed by the people endorsing Joco at the moment which means you will be dealing with more than 150 at least. Secondly, and this is the meat of the argument, there has never been an operation that succeeded 100 participants in a single update as far as I know. This is just madness. Even if all the Pacifics, TBH, TRF, TITO, and many more worked together to topple the region they will still fail, the level of coordination required to initiate such a massive operation will be record breaking. And dont forget that SLL, Riakou and other ROs have so much influence it will take a very long time to boot them, all while they are able to gather support from other fascist/nazi regions and whatnot.

[Praeceps]

OOC: Yes, Jocospor is also the delegate that's true, but the odds of Jocospor getting deleted are slim, I think he has only been smacked once by moderation and he's got a couple of infractions before he gets deleted.

Then that's the argument you should be making instead.

Your second point is, that 100 endorsements is not an obstacle I disagree with.

You make several false assumptions below.

Firstly, I'm fairly certain SLL or whoever succeeds Joco will probably be endorsed by the people endorsing Joco at the moment which means you will be dealing with more than 150 at least.

Delegacy transitions take time. You can take a look at how TSP and TNP have been doing with their recent Delegacy transitions. To presume that all endorsements will transfer quickly is extremely unlikely.

Secondly, and this is the meat of the argument, there has never been an operation that succeeded 100 participants in a single update as far as I know.

Two misassumptions in the single sentence here.

First, that just because something has not been done before doesn't mean it won't be able to be done now. If people always gave up because something hadn't been done before the human race wouldn't be where it was today.

Secondly, you make the assumption the Delegacy must be seized in a single update. An option would be for the opposing force to cross before jumping to build a beachhead and then build on that in following updates.

This is just madness. Even if all the Pacifics, TBH, TRF, TITO, and many more worked together to topple the region they will still fail, the level of coordination required to initiate such a massive operation will be record breaking.

Again, assumption that because something hasn't been done it can't be done.

And dont forget that SLL, Riakou and other ROs have so much influence it will take a very long time to boot them, all while they are able to gather support from other fascist/nazi regions and whatnot.

This argument is irrelevant as it does not deal with taking the region but clearing it. I assure you plenty of people would be willing to park their WA in CCD to see the region destroyed.

[Marxist Germany]

OOC: Yes, Jocospor is also the delegate that's true, but the odds of Jocospor getting deleted are slim, I think he has only been smacked once by moderation and he's got a couple of infractions before he gets deleted.

Then that's the argument you should be making instead.

I am fairly certain it's illegal to mention moderation in any form.

Your second point is, that 100 endorsements is not an obstacle I disagree with.

You make several false assumptions below.

Firstly, I'm fairly certain SLL or whoever succeeds Joco will probably be endorsed by the people endorsing Joco at the moment which means you will be dealing with more than 150 at least.

Delegacy transitions take time. You can take a look at how TSP and TNP have been doing with their recent Delegacy transitions. To presume that all endorsements will transfer quickly is extremely unlikely.

Yes it will take time, which is why you'll have to gather up all the support very quickly before the successor becomes invincible, and coordinating such massive operations takes time. If Jocospor was not deleted surprisingly then they probably would've placed a preemptive password.

Secondly, you make the assumption the Delegacy must be seized in a single update. An option would be for the opposing force to cross before jumping to build a beachhead and then build on that in following updates.

Even with 100 nations crossing each other that's 10000 influence and a swift booting from the ROs.

[Praeceps]

I am fairly certain it's illegal to mention moderation in any form.

You don't have to mention moderation. Just note that it's unlikely that the founder will cease to exist in some way that is rule compliant.

Yes it will take time, which is why you'll have to gather up all the support very quickly before the successor becomes invincible, and coordinating such massive operations takes time. If Jocospor was not deleted surprisingly then they probably would've placed a preemptive password.

What... how is the successor going to become invincible? If anything, the region will be more vulnerable as time goes on and opponents infiltrate the region.

And you'd be surprised at how quickly operations can be organized.

Even with 100 nations crossing each other that's 10000 influence and a swift booting from the ROs.

And that just uses up their influence which isn't a bad thing either.

[Marxist Germany]

I am fairly certain it's illegal to mention moderation in any form.

You don't have to mention moderation. Just note that it's unlikely that the founder will cease to exist in some way that is rule compliant.

OOC: I'll try to do that, thank you.

Even with 100 nations crossing each other that's 10000 influence and a swift booting from the ROs.

And that just uses up their influence which isn't a bad thing either.

You will have to do that 10 times to drain the influence of SLL only.

[Praeceps]

You will have to do that 10 times to drain the influence of SLL only.

You underestimate the dislike for CCD.

[Jocospor]

The room is dark. His oak desk is cluttered with files and empty bottles of Monet & Chardin. "Fools...fools the lot of them..." the no-name secretary mutters. "Even if the Emperor did fall, even if the Imperial... The Confederation will always live on!" Suddenly, he stirs up a cloud of paper, searching manically, until he finds it. #2795 "Wolf's-bane" [cat. contingency, classified]

[Kaboomlandia]

You will have to do that 10 times to drain the influence of SLL only.

You underestimate the dislike for CCD.

I see this argument a lot whenever I or someone else tries to argue that the region would be raidable, and I think in your idealism you are underestimating how truly impossible it is to raid CCD.

Let's just ignore the fact that the Delegate is the founder and has 200+ endorsements, because that alone should stop any attempt at raiding in its tracks.

There are four people in CCD with Border Control power that aren't Joc. Three of them have ~130 endorsements, which is about 50% more than the single largest jump to a single region I have ever seen (NSIA, October 2016). They're obviously not all going to hit, so let's say with an 80% hit rate on a jump, you're gonna need about 160-165 people involved. Now let's look at influence of the three big WA members with border control: 105,000, 87,000, 73,000. Any of these three nations could easily eject all the invaders dozens of times over on their own without blinking an eye, even if the jump miraculously hits and people perfectly cross-endorse in the jump point. If there is a military organization talented enough and insane enough to run 50+ near-flawless attrition runs in a row with more than thirteen dozen people, I'd like to meet them.


And keep in mind those numbers are if Joc were deleted right now. It'll only get more impossible.

I'm in support of this just so people can realize that the raid has about as much chance of being successful as the one on Area 51.

[Jocospor]

You underestimate the dislike for CCD.

I see this argument a lot whenever I or someone else tries to argue that the region would be raidable, and I think in your idealism you are underestimating how truly impossible it is to raid CCD.

Let's just ignore the fact that the Delegate is the founder and has 200+ endorsements, because that alone should stop any attempt at raiding in its tracks.

There are four people in CCD with Border Control power that aren't Joc. Three of them have ~130 endorsements, which is about 50% more than the single largest jump to a single region I have ever seen (NSIA, October 2016). They're obviously not all going to hit, so let's say with an 80% hit rate on a jump, you're gonna need about 160-165 people involved. Now let's look at influence of the three big WA members with border control: 105,000, 87,000, 73,000. Any of these three nations could easily eject all the invaders dozens of times over on their own without blinking an eye, even if the jump miraculously hits and people perfectly cross-endorse in the jump point. If there is a military organization talented enough and insane enough to run 50+ near-flawless attrition runs in a row with more than thirteen dozen people, I'd like to meet them.


And keep in mind those numbers are if Joc were deleted right now. It'll only get more impossible.

I'm in support of this just so people can realize that the raid has about as much chance of being successful as the one on Area 51.

The secretary's hands are sweating so much that the receiver's gone slippery. He knows what happens here. "Commodore, I swear...yes, I SWEAR Wolf's-bane was sealed!!"

[Kaboomlandia]

I see this argument a lot whenever I or someone else tries to argue that the region would be raidable, and I think in your idealism you are underestimating how truly impossible it is to raid CCD.

Let's just ignore the fact that the Delegate is the founder and has 200+ endorsements, because that alone should stop any attempt at raiding in its tracks.

There are four people in CCD with Border Control power that aren't Joc. Three of them have ~130 endorsements, which is about 50% more than the single largest jump to a single region I have ever seen (NSIA, October 2016). They're obviously not all going to hit, so let's say with an 80% hit rate on a jump, you're gonna need about 160-165 people involved. Now let's look at influence of the three big WA members with border control: 105,000, 87,000, 73,000. Any of these three nations could easily eject all the invaders dozens of times over on their own without blinking an eye, even if the jump miraculously hits and people perfectly cross-endorse in the jump point. If there is a military organization talented enough and insane enough to run 50+ near-flawless attrition runs in a row with more than thirteen dozen people, I'd like to meet them.


And keep in mind those numbers are if Joc were deleted right now. It'll only get more impossible.

I'm in support of this just so people can realize that the raid has about as much chance of being successful as the one on Area 51.

The secretary's hands are sweating so much that the receiver's gone slippery. He knows what happens here. "Commodore, I swear...yes, I SWEAR Wolf's-bane was sealed!!"

I don't give a damn about your RP with yourself. I'm simply a pragmatist and am responding to someone who actually thinks the region is raidable.

[Lord Dominator]

So interesting that the existence of sleepers is ignored

[Aclion]

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A FASCIST AND DO NOT ENDORSE FASCISM, I AM WRITING THIS BECAUSE I OPPOSE OFFENSIVE LIBERATIONS AND THE CCD IS NOT GOING DOWN ANYTIME SOON. Thank you.

That's just what a fascists who endorses fascism would say.

You underestimate the dislike for CCD.

I see this argument a lot whenever I or someone else tries to argue that the region would be raidable, and I think in your idealism you are underestimating how truly impossible it is to raid CCD.

Let's just ignore the fact that the Delegate is the founder and has 200+ endorsements, because that alone should stop any attempt at raiding in its tracks.

There are four people in CCD with Border Control power that aren't Joc. Three of them have ~130 endorsements, which is about 50% more than the single largest jump to a single region I have ever seen (NSIA, October 2016). They're obviously not all going to hit, so let's say with an 80% hit rate on a jump, you're gonna need about 160-165 people involved. Now let's look at influence of the three big WA members with border control: 105,000, 87,000, 73,000. Any of these three nations could easily eject all the invaders dozens of times over on their own without blinking an eye, even if the jump miraculously hits and people perfectly cross-endorse in the jump point. If there is a military organization talented enough and insane enough to run 50+ near-flawless attrition runs in a row with more than thirteen dozen people, I'd like to meet them.


And keep in mind those numbers are if Joc were deleted right now. It'll only get more impossible.

I'm in support of this just so people can realize that the raid has about as much chance of being successful as the one on Area 51.

I bet those numbers will change pretty fast without joc spending money on teles all the time.

[Lord Dominator]

I'm reasonably certain that MG is not fascist, or at least doesn't intend to be.

Additionally, I'm fairly certain that the only thing that would stop Jocospor from buying stamps for CCD (outside of not having the money any longer) is being DoS, and even then I don't know if Moderation would prohibit that.

[Lyrical International Brigade]

Nah, let's not.

[Marxist Germany]

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A FASCIST AND DO NOT ENDORSE FASCISM, I AM WRITING THIS BECAUSE I OPPOSE OFFENSIVE LIBERATIONS AND THE CCD IS NOT GOING DOWN ANYTIME SOON. Thank you.

That's just what a fascists who endorses fascism would say.

OOC: This disclaimer is for people who called me fascist for supporting the repeal last time.

[Jocospor]

I'm reasonably certain that MG is not fascist, or at least doesn't intend to be.

Additionally, I'm fairly certain that the only thing that would stop Jocospor from buying stamps for CCD (outside of not having the money any longer) is being DoS, and even then I don't know if Moderation would prohibit that.

OOC: Errm reasonably confident that if I was DoS I would cease funding the site lol. Though (depending on whether it was an account or IP DoS) I would work offsite to ensure the region went on.

[Jocospor]

I'm reasonably certain that MG is not fascist, or at least doesn't intend to be.

Additionally, I'm fairly certain that the only thing that would stop Jocospor from buying stamps for CCD (outside of not having the money any longer) is being DoS, and even then I don't know if Moderation would prohibit that.

OOC: Errm reasonably confident that if I was DoS I would cease funding the site lol. Though (depending on whether it was an account or IP DoS) I would work offsite to ensure the region went on.

OOC: (Sorry, double) Actually in theory I could always make direct bank transfers to trusted nations on the Supreme Council, and Moderation couldn't do anything about that. Hmm...

[Greater vakolicci haven]

In favour obviously.

Shit proposal, shit aims, shit justification. Needs repealing.

[Aclion]

OOC: Errm reasonably confident that if I was DoS I would cease funding the site lol. Though (depending on whether it was an account or IP DoS) I would work offsite to ensure the region went on.

OOC: (Sorry, double) Actually in theory I could always make direct bank transfers to trusted nations on the Supreme Council, and Moderation couldn't do anything about that. Hmm...

They could absolutely do something about that.

[Kuriko]

As the WA Delegate of XKI I can not support this proposal. CCD has been nothing but a thorn in the side of the GP community since they came out of hibernation, and they will continue to be that way long after the liberation being repealed. They've poached from our region multiple times using WA tagged recruitment, and they've done nothing but use the WA as a recruitment device by brute forcing resolutions into vote. All this is doing right now is giving them attention, and I'd rather let them sit there in their isolation rather than give them even more face time.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

As the WA Delegate of XKI I can not support this proposal. CCD has been nothing but a thorn in the side of the GP community since they came out of hibernation, and they will continue to be that way long after the liberation being repealed. They've poached from our region multiple times using WA tagged recruitment, and they've done nothing but use the WA as a recruitment device by brute forcing resolutions into vote. All this is doing right now is giving them attention, and I'd rather let them sit there in their isolation rather than give them even more face time.

Is using WA tagged recruitment something worth an offensive lib now?

[Lord Dominator]

OOC: Errm reasonably confident that if I was DoS I would cease funding the site lol. Though (depending on whether it was an account or IP DoS) I would work offsite to ensure the region went on.

OOC: (Sorry, double) Actually in theory I could always make direct bank transfers to trusted nations on the Supreme Council, and Moderation couldn't do anything about that. Hmm...

I was more speaking in regards to whether or not that'd count as assisting a DoS nation, as I'm reasonably sure Moderation/Admin have or could have ways to block that if they so desired.

[Kuriko]

As the WA Delegate of XKI I can not support this proposal. CCD has been nothing but a thorn in the side of the GP community since they came out of hibernation, and they will continue to be that way long after the liberation being repealed. They've poached from our region multiple times using WA tagged recruitment, and they've done nothing but use the WA as a recruitment device by brute forcing resolutions into vote. All this is doing right now is giving them attention, and I'd rather let them sit there in their isolation rather than give them even more face time.

Is using WA tagged recruitment something worth an offensive lib now?

Of course not, but if they want the vote of a region they should think before they do something as stupid as telegram bomb a region for recruitment. We have no sympathy for them, nor are we willing to help them.