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[PASSED] Condemn Koem Kab

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Zeritae
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Posts: 100
Founded: Jun 10, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Zeritae » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:33 am

Bormiar wrote:Hello guys! Noobie here.

I'm an avid card collector, and from my experiences believe that Koem Kab is worthy of a condemnation. I also believe that cards can legally be brought into the SC. Not only do I believe Koem Kab is a worthy candidate, I also want to create something fun and unique.

The card subculture is not as developed as something like R / D, so words like "trigger" and "jump-point" are much less common, thus making this proposal very wordy and difficult to understand for less knowledgeable players. Attempting to make up words in a proposal would be esoteric at best.

After showing this to a friend (who's not so much of a card collector) he suggested I post this here for your help. I know it needs a lot of work, but I think I'll take your input to redirect myself on the right track. Thank you!

The Security Council,

ACKNOWLEDGING the existence of government-owned art collections within nations and the buying and selling of individual artworks,

DISTURBED that Koem Kab’s museums have collections so large and high-valued that masterpieces are not recognized for their beauty, instead glanced at due to the sheer amount of them. This disregard for art has been caused by the following:
1. Koem Kab’s museums’ abundance of art from the world’s greatest nations, who have contributed internationally and been ranked highest in international censuses for a long time. Koem Kab’s museums have an obsession with collecting art from these nations, a trait shared by many, but fulfilled by few.
2. Koem Kab’s active attempts at monopolizing art from NERVUN, of which Koem Kab has a staggeringly large number of pieces, which easily places Koem Kab with the largest NERVUNian collection, and more than could be adequately displayed.
3. Koem Kab’s decision to hoard the artificially high-valued art from Queen Yuno, of which Koem Kab easily has the most in the world.
4. Koem Kab’s complete unwillingness to sell art unless the buyer is willing to meet unreasonably high prices,

AWARE of the effects of hoarding, which not only prevents widespread learning about many prominent nations, but also, as stated above, discredits the art,

NOTING the importance of the distribution of art over a large number of nations, as it means that even if a government ceases to exist and its museums are abandoned, the knowledge and beauty they contained will continue to exist in the world.

DISGUSTED at the methods Koem Kab has used to develop such an abnormally large and high-valued collection, including:
1. Intentionally avoiding the expenses necessary to expand a nation’s museums, which include construction, security, transportation, and time spent during construction with the museums unable to profit. Instead of renovating museums, Koem Kab usually chooses to disrespectfully keep art in the warehouses of its largest colony, Greatest Chernobyl. These masterpieces sit here until they can be sold to a grateful owner.
2. Blatantly increasing the value of useless art from nations such as International Organization, Ortsync, Griet, Divine Will VII, Vacuole, and many more by selling the art to a nation controlled by Koem Kab for a high price, which raises the value and thus the value of the collection. This causes Koem Kab’s art collections to appear to be worth thousands more than than they actually should be, thus misrepresenting the museum.
3. Koem Kab’s abuse of its fortune in order to buy cheap art. This can most-likely only be achieved if the nation has a large amount of wealth to prevent dropping. Stopping this “dropping” tactic from occurring prevents the naïve seller from getting a fair amount for the art, and discourages competition, as it often ends the bidding war,
4. Colonizing thousands of nations for the sole purpose of art production,

AWARE of the methods Koem Kab uses that are widely considered petty for nations with large collections, which includes transfer stealing and "pennybidding". “Pennybidding” is when a representative of a nation bids a negligibly small amount above the previous bid, intentionally causing frustration and extending bidding wars,

FURTHER AWARE that Koem Kab has contributed to the art value inflation. This has been done because the demand for popular art has not been met by the supply, so nations with lots of art from a single nation can demand much higher than its actual worth. This cost increase has made it more difficult for poor nations to own popular art, and ensured that most popular art will go to Koem Kab and other rich collectors.

CONCLUDING that Koem Kab has prevented growth of small museums, inflated art prices, stolen transferred bank, pennybidded, artificially raised art value, nearly monopolized ownership of some art, and hoarded,

Hereby condemns Koem Kab



The Security Council,

DEFINING "cards" as a descriptor of a nation’s attributes, including, but not limited to: a nation’s motto, classification, name, population, region, flag, top world census rankings, world assembly authorships, and recognition by this council,

AWARE of the difficulties and rarity of most popular cards, with most having less than 100 owners,

SHOCKED by Koem Kab’s hoarding of popular cards, of which most notably:
1. Koem Kab’s unwillingness to sell popular cards of which it has the most in the world. These cards include Frisbeeteria, Reploid Productions, Euroslavia, Sanctaria, Katganistan, Knootoss, NewTexas, Zwangzug, Mousebumples, Transnapastain, Lamoni, Aleisyr, Ardchoille, Kindjal, Pogaria, Kyrusia, Aurelia, Glen-Rhodes, Christian Democrats, Menta Lee-Il, Old Tyrannia, Farnhamia, Sunset, Topid, McMasterdonia, Separatist Peoples, The Bruce, Cogitation, Nation of Quebec, Pythagosaurus, The Stalker, The Grim Reaper, Caelapes, Imperium Anglorum, Gnejs, Caracasus, Frieden-und Freudenland, and Candlewhisper Archive, among many others.
2. Koem Kab’s active attempts at monopolizing the card of NERVUN, of which the nation has 43.
3. Koem Kab’s hoarding of the artificially high-valued card of Queen Yuno. Koem Kab has 10 of these.
4. Koem Kab’s complete unwillingness to sell cards unless the buyer is willing to meet unreasonably high demands, and the lack of other sellers and owners due to Koem Kab’s hoarding,

DISGUSTED at the methods used in developing such an abnormally large and high-valued collection, of which includes:
1. Intentionally avoiding the fees required to increase collection capacity by creating a new nation, Greatest Chernobyl, which can receive gifts. Then Koem Kab buys the gifts from Greatest chernobyl, thus fooling the system.
2. Blatantly increasing the value of cards such as International Organization, Ortsync, Griet, Divine Will VII, Vacuole, The Home of Hope, Aummunati0n, Neutral Yugoslavia, Death Defiance 17, The CLU Empire, Moorwhyne, Sleepwalker, Jidal, Balmains, Westlandium, The Automobile Industry, and many more. This involves selling the card to a puppet nation, which raises the value and thus the value of the collection. While done in smaller chunks it’s a transfer, with amounts of bank in the hundreds it causes Koem Kab’s collection to appear to be worth thousands more than than it actually should be, thus deceiving the viewer and increasing it’s ranking.
3. Abusing Koem Kab’s massive amount of bank in order to buy low-selling cards. This can be done by buying above the market value and placing another bid for above market value in order to prevent "dropping", a tactic which few nations can afford. This technique often ends the bidding war, which prevents the naive seller from getting a decent amount of bank for the card.

AWARE of the methods Koem Kab uses that are widely considered petty for nation’s with large collections, which includes transfer stealing and penny bidding,

FURTHER AWARE that Koem Kab has contributed to the cost increase. This can be done because the demand for popular cards has not been met by the supply, so nations with many cards can sell much higher than it’s worth. This cost increase has increased difficulty of receiving a popular card for the less well-off, and ensured that most popular cards will go to Koem Kab and other rich collectors, to the detriment of poorer nations.

HOPING that the security council will recognize this hoarding and the methods used in bring this collection to be the largest in the world,

Hereby condemns Koem Kab


The Security Council,

NOTING that many nations collect intelligence dossiers of other nations, which include: the nation’s motto, classification, name, population, region, flag, top world census rankings, world assembly authorships, and recognition by this council,

FURTHER NOTING that every intelligence dossier is identical, and it is pointless to collect more than one of a single nation. Rather, it is to the detriment of other nation’s intelligence programs to have more than one of this limited resource,

AWARE of the difficulties spies must overcome in order to collect intelligence on many nations, with the intelligence dossiers of most prominent nations being owned by less than 100 nations,

DEFINING "bank" as the standard currency by which nations trade dossiers.

SHOCKED by Koem Kab’s unnecessary hoarding of popular dossiers, of which most notably:
1. Koem Kab’s unwillingness to sell popular dossiers of which it has the greatest number in the world. These dossiers include intelligence on Frisbeeteria, Reploid Productions, Euroslavia, Sanctaria, Katganistan, Knootoss, NewTexas, Zwangzug, Mousebumples, Transnapastain, Lamoni, Aleisyr, Ardchoille, Kindjal, Pogaria, Kyrusia, Aurelia, Glen-Rhodes, Christian Democrats, Menta Lee-Il, Old Tyrannia, Farnhamia, Sunset, Topid, McMasterdonia, Separatist Peoples, The Bruce, Cogitation, Nation of Quebec, Pythagosaurus, The Stalker, The Grim Reaper, Caelapes, Imperium Anglorum, Gnejs, Caracasus, Frieden-und Freudenland, and Candlewhisper Archive, among many others. This unwillingness to trade means that many nations will be unable to receive a dossier on many important nations.
2. Koem Kab’s active attempts at being the sole owner of the dossier of NERVUN, of which Koem Kab has 43 dossiers.
3. Koem Kab’s hoarding of the artificially high-valued dossier of Queen Yuno. Koem Kab has 10 of these dossiers.
4. Koem Kab’s complete unwillingness to sell dossiers unless the buyer is willing to meet unreasonably high prices, and the lack of other sellers and owners due to Koem Kab’s hoarding,

AWARE of the affects of hoarding, which prevents nations from gaining intelligence on many prominent nations,

DISGUSTED at the methods used in developing such an abnormally large and high-valued collection of dossiers, of which includes:
1. Intentionally avoiding the fees required to increase dossier collection capacity, which is imposed upon all nations. Unwillingness or inability to pay for a larger capacity results in the inability to be given dossiers from other nations, but it does not prevent nations from buying and selling dossiers. Koem Kab circumvents these limits by seizing control of another nation, Greatest Chernobyl, and receiving gifts on that nation. Then, Koem Kab buys the gifts given to Greatest chernobyl, thus fooling the system.
2. Blatantly increasing the value of useless dossiers of nations such as International Organization, Ortsync, Griet, Divine Will VII, Vacuole, The Home of Hope, Aummunati0n, Neutral Yugoslavia, Death Defiance 17, The CLU Empire, Moorwhyne, Sleepwalker, Jidal, Balmains, Westlandium, The Automobile Industry, and many more. This involves selling the dossier to a nation controlled by Koem Kab for a high price, which raises the value and thus the value of the collection. While done in smaller chunks it’s a transfer of bank between two nations, but with amounts of bank in the hundreds, it causes Koem Kabs collection of dossiers to appear to be worth thousands more than than it actually should be, thus deceiving the viewer and increasing Koem Kabs ranking internationally.
3. Abusing Koem Kab’s massive amount of bank in order to buy low-selling dossiers. This can be done by placing a bid for the dossier at a price slightly above the market value, then placing another bid for an equal amount, in order to prevent "dropping". This is a tactic few nations can afford, and often ends the bidding war, which prevents the naive seller from getting a fair amount of bank for the dossier,

COGNIZANT of the affects of value-increasing, which significantly altar the world rankings for highest valued collections, and highest valued dossiers,

AWARE of the methods Koem Kab uses that are widely considered petty for nations with large collections, which includes bank transfer stealing and bidding 0.01 bank above the next highest bid,

FURTHER AWARE that Koem Kab has contributed to the cost increase. This has been done because the demand for popular dossiers has not been met by the supply, so nations with many identical dossiers can sell much higher than it’s worth. This cost increase has increased difficulty of owning a popular dossier for the less well-off, and ensured that most popular dossiers will go to Koem Kab and other rich collectors, to the detriment of poorer nations.

HOPING that the security council will recognize this hoarding and the methods used in bring this collection to be the largest in the world,

Hereby condemns Koem Kab


The Security Council,

ACKNOWLEDGING government-owned art collections which exist within nations and the active art trade which uses the currency "bank",

UNDERSTANDING that art reveals important information on the culture, ideology, and importance of the nation from which it was made,

AWARE that art is not bought and sold based on the artist, or the quality of the piece, but rather the culture that it expresses, so as to expand collections centered around specific nations.

DISTURBED that Koem Kab’s museums have collections so large and high-valued that masterpieces are not recognized for their beauty, instead glanced at due to the sheer amount of them. This disregard for art has been caused by the following:
1. Koem Kab’s museums abundance of art from the world’s legendary nations, a description determined by a nation’s longevity, census rankings, and contributions to the world, among other factors. Koem Kab’s museums have an obsession with collecting legendary nations, a trait shared by many, but fulfilled by few.
2. Koem Kab’s active attempts at monopolizing art from NERVUN. Koem Kab has a staggering 52 NERVUNian pieces in its collection.
3. Koem Kab’s decision to horde the artificiallly high-valued art from Queen Yuno. Koem Kab has 10 of these art pieces.
4. Koem Kab’s complete unwillingness to sell art unless the buyer is willing to meet unreasonably high prices,

AWARE of the effects of hoarding, which not only prevents nations from gaining intelligence on many prominent nations, but also, as stated above, devalues the art in the eyes of a tourist,

NOTING the importance of the distribution of art over a large number of nations, as it means that even if a government ceases to exist and its museums are abandoned, knowledge and beauty will continue to exist in the world. Therefore, Koem Kab’s control over so much art is risky,

DISGUSTED at the methods used in developing such an abnormally large and high-valued collection, of which includes:
1. Intentionally avoiding the maintenance fees required to increase art collection capacity, which is imposed upon all nations. Unwillingness or inability to pay for a larger capacity results in the inability to be gifted art from other nations, but it does not prevent nations from buying and selling art. Koem Kab circumvents these limits by seizing control of another nation, Greatest Chernobyl, and receiving gifts from Koem Kab’s colonies on said nation. Then, Koem Kab often sells the gifts in Greatest Chernobyl, and uses the bank to buy art in Koem Kab, thus fooling the system.
2. Blatantly increasing the value of useless art from nations such as International Organization, Ortsync, Griet, Divine Will VII, Vacuole, The Home of Hope, Aummunati0n, Neutral Yugoslavia, Death Defiance 17, The CLU Empire, Moorwhyne, Sleepwalker, Jidal, Balmains, Westlandium, The Automobile Industry, and many more. This involves selling the art to a nation controlled by Koem Kab for a high price, which raises the value and thus the value of the collection. While done in smaller chunks it can be argued as a transfer of bank between two nations, but with amounts of bank in the hundreds, it causes Koem Kabs art collections to appear to be worth thousands more than than they actually should be, thus deceiving a tourist and increasing Koem Kab’s international ranking.
3. Koem Kab’s abuse of its massive amount of bank in order to buy low-selling art. This can be done by placing a bid for the art at a price slightly above the market value (a value calculated by the average of all sale prices), then placing another bid for an equal amount as the previous bid, in order to prevent "dropping", which is when another owner of the art will sell for the price bid by Koem Kab, then buy for the originally low price, in order to profit. This dropping-prevention tactic is one that few nations can afford, and often ends the bidding war, which prevents the naïve seller from getting a fair amount of bank for the art,
4. Colonizing thousands of nations for the sole purpose of art production,

AWARE of the methods Koem Kab uses that are widely considered petty for nations with large collections, which includes bank transfer stealing and "pennybidding", which is bidding 0.01 bank above the next highest bid,

FURTHER AWARE that Koem Kab has contributed to the art value inflation. This has been done because the demand for popular art has not been met by the supply, so nations with lots of art from a single nation can sell much higher than it’s worth. This cost increase has made it more difficult to own popular art for poor nations, and ensured that most popular art will go to Koem Kab and other rich collectors, to the detriment of most nations.

CONCLUDING that Koem Kab has prevented growth of small museums, inflated art prices, stolen transferred bank, pennybidded, artificially raised card value, nearly monopolized ownership of some art, and hoarded,

Hereby condemns Koem Kab


The Security Council,

ACKNOWLEDGING the existence of government-owned art collections within nations and the exchange of individual pieces and currency ("bank") that makes up the international art trade,

UNDERSTANDING that art reveals important information on the culture, ideology, and importance of the nation from which it originated,

AWARE that art is not bought and sold based on the artist, or the quality of the piece, but rather the culture that it expresses, so as to expand collections centered around specific nations.

DISTURBED that Koem Kab’s museums have collections so large and high-valued that masterpieces are not recognized for their beauty, instead glanced at due to the sheer amount of them. This disregard for art has been caused by the following:
1. Koem Kab’s museums’ abundance of art from the world’s legendary nations, a description determined by a nation’s longevity, census rankings, and contributions to the world, among other factors. Koem Kab’s museums have an obsession with collecting legendary nations, a trait shared by many, but fulfilled by few.
2. Koem Kab’s active attempts at monopolizing art from NERVUN, of which Koem Kab has a staggering 52 pieces in its collection.
3. Koem Kab’s decision to hoard the artificially high-valued art from Queen Yuno, of which Koem Kab has 10.
4. Koem Kab’s complete unwillingness to sell art unless the buyer is willing to meet unreasonably high prices,

AWARE of the effects of hoarding, which not only prevents nations from gaining intelligence on many prominent nations, but also, as stated above, devalues the art in the eyes of a tourist,

NOTING the importance of the distribution of art over a large number of nations, as it means that even if a government ceases to exist and its museums are abandoned, the knowledge and beauty they contained will continue to exist in the world.

DISGUSTED at the methods Koem Kab has used to develop such an abnormally large and high-valued collection, including:
1. Intentionally avoiding the maintenance fees required to increase art collection capacity, which, if not paid, bars nations from receiving gifts from its colonies. Koem Kab circumvents these limits by seizing control of another nation, Greatest Chernobyl, and receiving gifts from Koem Kab’s colonies on said nation. Koem Kab often sells the gifts in Greatest Chernobyl, thus fooling the system.
2. Blatantly increasing the value of useless art from nations such as International Organization, Ortsync, Griet, Divine Will VII, Vacuole, and many more by selling the art to a nation controlled by Koem Kab for a high price, raising the value and thus the value of the collection. This causes Koem Kab’s art collections to appear to be worth thousands more than than they actually should be, thus deceiving a tourist and increasing Koem Kab’s international ranking.
3. Koem Kab’s abuse of its massive amount of bank in order to buy low-selling art by placing two bids for the art at a price slightly above the market value (a value calculated by the average of all sale prices), a tactic used in order to prevent “dropping”, in which another owner of the art sells for the price bid by Koem Kab, then buys for the originally low price, in order to profit. This dropping-prevention tactic is one that few nations can afford, and often ends the bidding war, which prevents the naïve seller from getting a fair amount of bank for the art,
4. Colonizing thousands of nations for the sole purpose of art production,

AWARE of the methods Koem Kab uses that are widely considered petty for nations with large collections, which includes bank transfer stealing and "pennybidding", which is bidding 0.01 bank above the next highest bid,

FURTHER AWARE that Koem Kab has contributed to the art value inflation. This has been done because the demand for popular art has not been met by the supply, so nations with lots of art from a single nation can demand much higher than its actual worth. This cost increase has made it more difficult for poor nations to own popular art, and ensured that most popular art will go to Koem Kab and other rich collectors.

CONCLUDING that Koem Kab has prevented growth of small museums, inflated art prices, stolen transferred bank, pennybidded, artificially raised card value, nearly monopolized ownership of some art, and hoarded,

Hereby condemns Koem Kab


I was wondering what buying cards at a negiligibly small amount over the required amount was called
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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:42 am

Zeritae wrote:
Bormiar wrote:I was wondering what buying cards at a negiligibly small amount over the required amount was called

It's called "pennybidding". It also extends the time because the default time it takes for an auction to end is 1 hour, and it extends by 1 minute every time a higher bid is placed or a lower ask is placed.
Last edited by Bormiar on Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Toerana
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Postby Toerana » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:07 pm

Bormiar wrote:
Zeritae wrote:

It's called "pennybidding". It also extends the time because the default time it takes for an auction to end is 1 hour, and it extends by 1 minute every time a higher bid is placed or a lower ask is placed.



It's great fun and really shouldn't be hated :P

It can be stupidly annoying on higher value cards.
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Catsfern
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Postby Catsfern » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:31 am

I Find it quite interesting that A: this was declared legal, B: it got enough backing to go to vote, and C: Its looking like its going to pass. This entire proposal is unprecedented and while Im not exactly surprised that it's condemnable to use a large card funneling operation to have pretty much more market control than anyone else, and to hoard valuable cards. I do have one concern. As someone who has dealt with the market a lot by collecting 100 copies of my own nations card I feel that the problem is a small amount of card funneling is almost necessary for a nation to stay viable in the current market, especially if you're trying to collect a large amount of 1 specific card, or just a large amount of cards in general. I want it known that I support this condemnation because of Koem Kabs merciless market tactics in auction and practical hoarding of valuables, not the fact they card funneled.
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Bormiar Card Farm 40
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Postby Bormiar Card Farm 40 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:31 pm

Catsfern wrote:I Find it quite interesting that A: this was declared legal, B: it got enough backing to go to vote, and C: Its looking like its going to pass.

The Condemn Koem Kab thing used to be a joke. While we still thought he deserved it, we didn't think the SC would accept it with such open arms. We're all surprised.
Catsfern wrote:This entire proposal is unprecedented and while Im not exactly surprised that it's condemnable to use a large card funneling operation to have pretty much more market control than anyone else, and to hoard valuable cards. I do have one concern. As someone who has dealt with the market a lot by collecting 100 copies of my own nations card I feel that the problem is a small amount of card funneling is almost necessary for a nation to stay viable in the current market, especially if you're trying to collect a large amount of 1 specific card, or just a large amount of cards in general. I want it known that I support this condemnation because of Koem Kabs merciless market tactics in auction and practical hoarding of valuables, not the fact they card funneled.

I thought I had a good idea of what you meant when you said "funneled", but you've lost me. Could you point to the part of the proposal relating to this please?

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Northern Wood
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Postby Northern Wood » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:36 pm

Catsfern wrote:I Find it quite interesting that A: this was declared legal, B: it got enough backing to go to vote, and C: Its looking like its going to pass. This entire proposal is unprecedented and while Im not exactly surprised that it's condemnable to use a large card funneling operation to have pretty much more market control than anyone else, and to hoard valuable cards. I do have one concern. As someone who has dealt with the market a lot by collecting 100 copies of my own nations card I feel that the problem is a small amount of card funneling is almost necessary for a nation to stay viable in the current market, especially if you're trying to collect a large amount of 1 specific card, or just a large amount of cards in general. I want it known that I support this condemnation because of Koem Kabs merciless market tactics in auction and practical hoarding of valuables, not the fact they card funneled.


Also don't forget that this is really more of a Commendation, in recognition of their massive success.

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Catsfern
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Postby Catsfern » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:45 pm

Northern Wood wrote:
Catsfern wrote:I Find it quite interesting that A: this was declared legal, B: it got enough backing to go to vote, and C: Its looking like its going to pass. This entire proposal is unprecedented and while Im not exactly surprised that it's condemnable to use a large card funneling operation to have pretty much more market control than anyone else, and to hoard valuable cards. I do have one concern. As someone who has dealt with the market a lot by collecting 100 copies of my own nations card I feel that the problem is a small amount of card funneling is almost necessary for a nation to stay viable in the current market, especially if you're trying to collect a large amount of 1 specific card, or just a large amount of cards in general. I want it known that I support this condemnation because of Koem Kabs merciless market tactics in auction and practical hoarding of valuables, not the fact they card funneled.


Also don't forget that this is really more of a Commendation, in recognition of their massive success.


no its a condemnation.
Image

notice how it says condemn

Bormiar Card Farm 40 wrote:
Catsfern wrote:I Find it quite interesting that A: this was declared legal, B: it got enough backing to go to vote, and C: Its looking like its going to pass.

The Condemn Koem Kab thing used to be a joke. While we still thought he deserved it, we didn't think the SC would accept it with such open arms. We're all surprised.
Catsfern wrote:This entire proposal is unprecedented and while Im not exactly surprised that it's condemnable to use a large card funneling operation to have pretty much more market control than anyone else, and to hoard valuable cards. I do have one concern. As someone who has dealt with the market a lot by collecting 100 copies of my own nations card I feel that the problem is a small amount of card funneling is almost necessary for a nation to stay viable in the current market, especially if you're trying to collect a large amount of 1 specific card, or just a large amount of cards in general. I want it known that I support this condemnation because of Koem Kabs merciless market tactics in auction and practical hoarding of valuables, not the fact they card funneled.

I thought I had a good idea of what you meant when you said "funneled", but you've lost me. Could you point to the part of the proposal relating to this please?

that would be
4. Colonizing thousands of nations for the sole purpose of art production
pretty much creating a ton of card funneling nations, but that's also the part im most forgiving of
Last edited by Catsfern on Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Northern Wood
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Postby Northern Wood » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:43 am

Catsfern wrote:no its a condemnation.

notice how it says condemn


Yes, but it's a badge of honor, either way. One just has the flavor of being "good," while the other is flavored "bad." Most of the Condemnations you see in the SC are actually Commendations written with the IC coloring that the nation themselves has shown to prefer.

Though there are Condemnations that strive to actually dishonor the target (Fascist regions/nations, for instance), but this is not one of them.

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Refuge Isle
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Postby Refuge Isle » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:49 pm

Northern Wood wrote:
Catsfern wrote:no its a condemnation.

notice how it says condemn


Yes, but it's a badge of honor, either way. One just has the flavor of being "good," while the other is flavored "bad." Most of the Condemnations you see in the SC are actually Commendations written with the IC coloring that the nation themselves has shown to prefer.

Though there are Condemnations that strive to actually dishonor the target (Fascist regions/nations, for instance), but this is not one of them.

I agree. All of the talking points in the resolution could have been written as a commendation instead, but Koem is the big monstrous Amazon.kab figure and their persona as this distant secret order market manipulator lends itself better to a condemnation. More than commendation/condemnation, it's mostly a recognition vote. Which is fine, really. It's not like people genuinely make condemnations to get someone to change their wicked ways!

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Catsfern
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Postby Catsfern » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:55 pm

i read it more as "yes it's impressive you got where you are, but you used some methods to do so that shouldn't exactly be encouraged, so we're going to condemn that"
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Postby Lord Dominator » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:27 pm

Regardless of how honourable the Condemnation is seen, what I find fascinating here is that it's essentially being driven by the Cards community from what I have seen, and actually dislikes Koem's methods.

Don't see that happening that often.
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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:53 pm

Catsfern wrote:i read it more as "yes it's impressive you got where you are, but you used some methods to do so that shouldn't exactly be encouraged, so we're going to condemn that"

It's fine for the purposes of the proposal to read it as that, though.
Refuge Isle wrote:
Northern Wood wrote:
Yes, but it's a badge of honor, either way. One just has the flavor of being "good," while the other is flavored "bad." Most of the Condemnations you see in the SC are actually Commendations written with the IC coloring that the nation themselves has shown to prefer.

Though there are Condemnations that strive to actually dishonor the target (Fascist regions/nations, for instance), but this is not one of them.

I agree. All of the talking points in the resolution could have been written as a commendation instead, but Koem is the big monstrous Amazon.kab figure and their persona as this distant secret order market manipulator lends itself better to a condemnation. More than commendation/condemnation, it's mostly a recognition vote. Which is fine, really. It's not like people genuinely make condemnations to get someone to change their wicked ways!

What was more important was that Koem Kab's nation looked better with a condemnation. He must be our stereotypical Disney villian.

Of course he could have been commended for "cleverly building the largest deck in NationStates via strategies he (and a few others) pioneered".

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Gagium
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Postby Gagium » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:53 pm

Against, nations shouldn’t be condemned for engaging in free market capitalism.
E

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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:01 pm

Gagium wrote:Against, nations shouldn’t be condemned for engaging in free market capitalism.

Despite how it may look at first glance, this proposal isn't about the fact of KK's engagement, it's about how KK engages. Also, I think we can all agree that nations which make significant impacts on NationStates ought to be recognized.
Last edited by Bormiar on Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Refuge Isle
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Postby Refuge Isle » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:18 am

Lord Dominator wrote:Regardless of how honourable the Condemnation is seen, what I find fascinating here is that it's essentially being driven by the Cards community from what I have seen, and actually dislikes Koem's methods.

Don't see that happening that often.

For what it's worth, I have absolutely no dislike of Koem. However, I'm fundamentally interested in cards becoming more of a legitimate part of NationStates, so there's some level of due diligence to talk about the issue when most people might not know much about how it works.

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Bormiar
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Bormiar » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:00 am

Condemn Koem Kab was passed 9,628 votes to 2,648.

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The Chuck
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Postby The Chuck » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:04 am

Bormiar wrote:
Condemn Koem Kab was passed 9,628 votes to 2,648.


:clap:
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Balticonia
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Postby Balticonia » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:35 am

Bormiar wrote:
Condemn Koem Kab was passed 9,628 votes to 2,648.

Ya know, the way the resolution is worded is very ironic, considering that this is the most recent activity for Koem Kab

17 hours ago: Following new legislation in Koem Kab, the new 'Things We Stole From Other Countries' exhibition at the National Museum of Antiquities is a hit.
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Bormiar
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Bormiar » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:43 am

Balticonia wrote:
Bormiar wrote:

Ya know, the way the resolution is worded is very ironic, considering that this is the most recent activity for Koem Kab

17 hours ago: Following new legislation in Koem Kab, the new 'Things We Stole From Other Countries' exhibition at the National Museum of Antiquities is a hit.

You are the best for seeing that.

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Benevolent 1
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Benevolent 1 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:11 am

I resolved not to vote on this resolution once the discussion suggested this condemnation is perhaps the equivalent of a commendation for KK. OTOH, wherein the chronology of the resolution's development was literally described "as a joke" at it's inception this did morph into the perception the SC gave valuable exposure through it's discussions of the certain defects within the card game itself, which was a positive development. I hope the administration can address some of those issues with equitable fixes in the Season 2 version.

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Bormiar
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Bormiar » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:52 am

Benevolent 1 wrote:I resolved not to vote on this resolution once the discussion suggested this condemnation is perhaps the equivalent of a commendation for KK. OTOH, wherein the chronology of the resolution's development was literally described "as a joke" at it's inception this did morph into the perception the SC gave valuable exposure through it's discussions of the certain defects within the card game itself, which was a positive development. I hope the administration can address some of those issues with equitable fixes in the Season 2 version.

Slight but important emendation: Neither the proposal nor Koem's deserving of a condemnation were described as a joke (that I know of). What was joked about was the willingness of the Security Council to accept cards. Additionally, these jokes were not caused by me nor this proposal, as I believe you may think ("at it's inception"). I was not the first to suggest a Koem Condemnation, simply the first to formally attempt it. I think I was unclear. I'm sorry for the ambiguity.

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Marxist Germany
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Postby Marxist Germany » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:55 am

Bormiar wrote:
Condemn Koem Kab was passed 9,628 votes to 2,648.

OOC: Congrats!
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Benevolent 1
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Benevolent 1 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:15 pm

Bormiar wrote:
Benevolent 1 wrote:I resolved not to vote on this resolution once the discussion suggested this condemnation is perhaps the equivalent of a commendation for KK. OTOH, wherein the chronology of the resolution's development was literally described "as a joke" at it's inception this did morph into the perception the SC gave valuable exposure through it's discussions of the certain defects within the card game itself, which was a positive development. I hope the administration can address some of those issues with equitable fixes in the Season 2 version.

Slight but important emendation: Neither the proposal nor Koem's deserving of a condemnation were described as a joke (that I know of). What was joked about was the willingness of the Security Council to accept cards. Additionally, these jokes were not caused by me nor this proposal, as I believe you may think ("at it's inception"). I was not the first to suggest a Koem Condemnation, simply the first to formally attempt it. I think I was unclear. I'm sorry for the ambiguity.


No need to apologize, but thanks just the same. The exercise was a worthy effort with it's discussion of the card game's exploitation by certain players, and not just KK, though he is clearly the worst offender. I just could not bring myself to vote in the affirmative bc of the ambiguity of an inverse reception of a condemnation by the particular player as some warped badge of honor. Additionally, I should have added my congratulations to you for spearheading the robust effort. :)

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:04 pm

Bormiar wrote:
Condemn Koem Kab was passed 9,628 votes to 2,648.

Very well done!
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Bormiar
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Bormiar » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:02 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:
Bormiar wrote:

OOC: Congrats!
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Bormiar wrote:

Very well done!
The Chuck wrote:
Bormiar wrote:


:clap:

Thanks!

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