[PASSED] Condemn Durkadurkiranistan II

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Well done, will be voting in favour.

[Creslonia]

"Let it be known that the Republic of Creslonia will be voting for this resolution."
- Alexander Finch, Minister of Foreign Affairs

[Borovan entered the region as he]

I AMM LIEK SO DRRRUNKK AND I AM BE votoiong in favvvor off duh rrrsolutftion

[Fulford]

Fulford has a message from the Supreme Leader stating that we will be voting in favour of this resolution.

[United States of Americanas]

Theocracy? No protest? Capital and corporal punishment? Even their policies are condemnable!

I strongly favor condemnation of the nation on the public stage!

[Barret 50Cal]

This nation has one of the highest amounts of foreign aid given out.

[Eumaeus]

This nation has one of the highest amounts of foreign aid given out.

Did you not read the proposal? Its arguments are explained in great detail.

[Centrum Terrae]

Durkadurkiranistan II has already been condemned, what's the point of condemning him again?

[Eumaeus]

Durkadurkiranistan II has already been condemned, what's the point of condemning him again?

As the author states in the OP, this proposal is intended to be a replace and repeal, with the goal of updating the original Condemnation (which will be 10 years old this coming October).

[Praeceps]

Durkadurkiranistan II has already been condemned, what's the point of condemning him again?

As the author states in the OP, this proposal is intended to be a replace and repeal, with the goal of updating the original Condemnation (which will be 10 years old this coming October).

The author has stated off-site they are no longer seeking to repeal the original condemnation.

[Marilyn Manson Freaks]

As the author states in the OP, this proposal is intended to be a replace and repeal, with the goal of updating the original Condemnation (which will be 10 years old this coming October).

The author has stated off-site they are no longer seeking to repeal the original condemnation.

Correct. Durk's first condemnation is historically important.

[Eumaeus]

The author has stated off-site they are no longer seeking to repeal the original condemnation.

Correct. Durk's first condemnation is historically important.

Thank you for the clarification. The OP still states that there is an intention to repeal it should this pass.

Regardless, the answer to the question I was answering is still updating the original Condemnation, which is almost 10 years out of date.

[North East Somerset]

a starchy but pleasant and skilled defender in the Alliance Defense Network (ADN) before they started down a dark and winding path of interregional infamy.

It's always the starchy ones that go sour.

Durk is a player of considerable ability. Fully deserved.

[Gagium]

Against, this guy is already condemned and this seems to be nothing more than a badge grab.

Also, would referring to the nation as a “monstrous tyrant” be a violation? This seems to very clearly be referring to the player.

[Marilyn Manson Freaks]

Against, this guy is already condemned and this seems to be nothing more than a badge grab.

Also, would referring to the nation as a “monstrous tyrant” be a violation? This seems to very clearly be referring to the player.

His current condemnation mentions only one thing he's done, it's not a badge grab.

Also, no, it isn't very clearly referring to the player. Nations can be tyrannical.

[Holy Roman Empires2]

To be honest, looking at how the vote is going, this post isnt necessary. However, I feel I must post. The proposal is well worded, unlike the kings and emperors proposal. I, for one enjoy not being bombarded by w.a camping tgs, so thanks for that at the very least.

Emperor of the Monarchy Alliance and W.A delegate.

[Paratan]

Against, this guy is already condemned and this seems to be nothing more than a badge grab.

Also, would referring to the nation as a “monstrous tyrant” be a violation? This seems to very clearly be referring to the player.

His current condemnation mentions only one thing he's done, it's not a badge grab.

Also, no, it isn't very clearly referring to the player. Nations can be tyrannical.

But can nations be tyrants? No. They can only be tyrannical.

[Marilyn Manson Freaks]

His current condemnation mentions only one thing he's done, it's not a badge grab.

Also, no, it isn't very clearly referring to the player. Nations can be tyrannical.

But can nations be tyrants? No. They can only be tyrannical.

noun: tyrant; plural noun: tyrants
1. a cruel and oppressive ruler.
"the tyrant was deposed by popular demonstrations"
synonyms: dictator, despot, autocrat, absolute ruler, authoritarian, oppressor

Can a nation not be an oppressor, can a nation not be authoritarian? Tyrant can apply to nations, but isn't usually that way. Since we're in a polsim, it can.

[Gagium]

But can nations be tyrants? No. They can only be tyrannical.

noun: tyrant; plural noun: tyrants
1. a cruel and oppressive ruler.
"the tyrant was deposed by popular demonstrations"
synonyms: dictator, despot, autocrat, absolute ruler, authoritarian, oppressor

Can a nation not be an oppressor, can a nation not be authoritarian? Tyrant can apply to nations, but isn't usually that way. Since we're in a polsim, it can.

The key word in that definition is 'ruler'. Ruler is defined as 'a person exercising government or dominion'...or as the tool.

[Eumaeus]

Can a nation not be an oppressor, can a nation not be authoritarian? Tyrant can apply to nations, but isn't usually that way. Since we're in a polsim, it can.

The key word in that definition is 'ruler'. Ruler is defined as 'a person exercising government or dominion'...or as the tool.

While I am interested in getting a moderator opinion on this matter, this line of debate is just arguing minutiae. Different wordings of the definition will imply different things.

Additionally, such a ruling would be a massive departure from typical Security Council practice. The SC has always allowed authors to refer to nations in a manner more befitting of a person than of a country, as long as it was not especially explicit. Take this clause from the recent Condemn Pierconium:

Further Noting that Pierconium has served in various positions with the governing body of The Pacific, known as the New Pacific Order, since that body's early history starting in 2004. These positions include the titles of Chief Justice of the High Court, Governor, Senator, Regent, and Emperor...

Admittedly, it could be debated that these are just titles given to nations. A better example is this quote from Commend Severisen:

Understanding that, as a native of the region of Catholic, they were a long-term resident for those fourteen years.

Or, from Condemn Darkesia:

Surprised by the fact that Darkesia... served as a spy for the first Invaders region.

The last time I checked, an entire country can't be a spy.

New rulings do not apply to old resolutions, so a ruling that this phrasing violates Rule 4b would not require repealing any of the previous resolutions I have cited. However, my point is that this would be a massive change in how authors can legally speak about a nation, and in my opinion would require more explicit warning in the Security Council rules.

[Lemmingtopias]

Considering this only concerns the GCRs, and at least four of the GCR Delegates have voted against, I don't think I can support it.


It makes a nice read though and I wish you the best of luck.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Anyway it’s passed so congrats MMF on a well written resolution.

[Marilyn Manson Freaks]

Anyway it’s passed so congrats MMF on a well written resolution.

Thanks, BBD.

[Kuriko]

Condemn Durkadurkiranistan II was passed 8,459 votes to 5,594.

[RiderSyl]

Congrats to Manson on another well-written C&C. Now let's liberate Durk too.