Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:Upper Saust Latiegebestica wrote:I say don't. Free speech is of utmost importance, and its a nations right to be fascist. Besides, if you want to condemn fascism, condemn commies as well!
If you're going to RP as something condemnable, then don't complain when people condemn you. Blame majority opinion if you want, but don't take an IC condemn against an IC nation as an OOC attack.
As for "condemn commies as well", again, blame popular opinion. (Also, NS commies don't generally engage in edgy trollfests the same way NS fascists do.)
If you have a problem with fascists being condemned more than communists, then guess what, there's a way to do something about that that doesn't involve creating threads to whine about it. Write some SC bills condemning communists and repealing fascists' condemnations, campaign for them, and try to get them passed. It's pretty simple.
If it were merely condemning fascists, I wouldn't care to argue. People seem to be mistaking my case as asking the WA to like fascists. I don't even like fascists, nor ask you to like them; I just think that they deserve justice as much as everyone else.
When the WA has different standards based on ideology, I believe that this is a great injustice, and just makes the WA a farce of itself. Rather than being an organisation dedicated to keeping peace within the NS world, it just becomes an ideological enforcement agency, a tool of ideological warfare.
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:Lord Dominator wrote:I see we've moved onto whataboutism
It's hard to move onto whataboutism when basically the entire thread is built around "but you have to condemn commies too".
When it comes to justice and how it is applied, whataboutism is necessary, in order to highlight bias and unequal justice.
Armaros wrote:North Saitama wrote:All you are doing, though, is feeding me the same "butt duh face-ists, dough" argument. Don't complain about my alleged "nonsense", then feed me the same nonsense I have criticised over and over.
1. It's good to know you're okay with the hate fascism stands for. Goes to say what kind of a person you are.
You have perfectly demonstrated my exact problem, by not even answering my base criticisms; I am almost led to believe that you don't get it, which is why I repeat myself. I have clearly indicated on many occasions that I don't give a damn about what ideology they are (to the point of opposing the offensive liberation of a communist region, for the same reasons), yet every single counter-argument I receive is "butt duh face-ists dough". By continually feeding me this argument, you are basically preaching to the atheist.
2. yes, your nonsense about IC warcrimes was heartwarming. Anything else except "b-but muh game! If they want to spew hate on this site they should be able but muh gaem!"?
For one, NationStates is a game, first and foremost. In-game mechanics like the World Assembly should be IC first and foremost. If fascists are that much of a problem, take OOC routes like talking to admin.
3. Yes it's a game. And if we don't do something a gathering ground for nazis and fascists. Now you obviously are fine with that but some people who the fascists want dead maybe, just maybe, are not?
I am also of the belief that actions speak louder than words. That is why I am more concerned and critical of so-called "face-ist hunters" than some backwater fascist region that nobody would otherwise care about. I don't care how horrible someone's opinion is; if you actually DO something bad, you will always be worse.
4. Horrible, playing a game like the game mechanics made it possible must be the worst crime! Spewing hate, preaching for several groups of people to be killed simply for existing is fine, but playing a game? Horrible! What an outrage!
Then explain alliances with
The Red Fleet (
Tags: Anarchist, Anti-Capitalist, Anti-Fascist, Commended, Communist, Defender, Feminist, Founderless, Game Player, Invader, Minuscule, Non-English, and 5 others.),
Korean Peoples Army (
Tags: Anti-Capitalist, Anti-Fascist, Communist, Featured, Feminist, LGBT, Minuscule, Password, Serious, and Socialist.),
North Korea (
Tags: Anti-Capitalist, Anti-Fascist, Communist, Democratic, Feminist, Independent, LGBT, Medium, Non-English, Serious, and Socialist.), and others? Especially alarming are the tankies like KPA and NK (who are both based on North Korea, a horribly authoritarian country IRL that routinely commits crimes against humanity), who I would argue are just as bad as fascists, yet, rather than denounce them, Antifa has allied with them?
5. I love how you keep defending fascists about how poor they are and then go "BUT DA COMMIES ARE HEAR TOO OH MAH GAWD WHAT A HORRIBLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE!".
If Antifa truly has no ideology, then they need to re-evaluate their alliances. To be honest, I flat-out consider this a bold-faced lie, anyway, especially given that Antifa gleefully uses the red flag themselves, a symbol of socialism/communism, and that the IRL Antifa is a far-left organisation.
6. Oh noes, Antifa working with other anti-fascist organisations! What an outrage!
Lmfao dude, you're automatically calling a coalition of several regions from differing ideologies because some of it's allies are communist? And the colour of their symbol suddenly also makes them communist. Sorry Capitalist Paradise, your flag features red. You're now "communist pigs" by definition according to this guy.
1. Strawman. I didn't say that I was okay with it, just that it is irrelevant within the context of what I am saying.
2. Again, I mentioned that, if fascists are that much of a problem, talk to the admins. Being that fascism isn't against the rules, I urge you to default to IC reasons within the WA.
3. Again, if it is that much of a problem, talk to the admins. NationStates is a gathering place/battleground of political ideology and ideas. If you want to be anti-fascist, that is fine. But I think that it is wrong to accept and even commend otherwise condemnable actions, based on ideological bias.
Besides, I am mixed Slovak, Mexican, and British, a political libertarian, and generally a tolerant person. Don't tell me about who fascists hate.
4. There is a big difference between actions and words. By your logic, merely wishing death upon someone is as good as attempted murder.
In-game, what this means is that, while we cannot investigate and find proof of death camps warranting action due to mechanical limitations, we can condemn discriminatory policies.
5. If you can refrain from ignorantly jumping to conclusions, the reason I pointed this out is to note how Antifa is ideologically-motivated, and by pointing-out their hypocrisy in that they are allies with organisations that are based on entities guilty of horrific IRL crimes against humanity.
If Antifa really cared about the consequences of fascism, instead of doing so to advance their ideology, they would condemn the horrific authoritarians within their own sphere of influence, first.
6. Its biggest allies are communist, and the IRL Antifa is a far-left organisation that has attacked even non-fascist right-wingers. They even use the same logo as the IRL Antifa. So excuse me for not being confident in their claim to not be ideological.
Besides, there is a difference between red elements on a flag, and a wholly red flag. Entirely and/or mostly red flags are typically associated with socialism and/or communism. See
here.